Should discriminating against the religious ever be accepted?

AudreyHepburn

Zillah wrote: »

People who talk absolute nonsense evoke that in me. Perhaps it is a flaw, perhaps not, but there you have it.

Not to mention the fact that I could be Satan incarnate and my point would still be valid.

Right because everything you've ever said makes complete sense :rolleyes:

I just don't think I personally would be all that bothered if some-one didn't want to tough beef thats all.

No nonsense there just personal opinion.

Zillah

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Yes I did read. What's your point?

All I said was personally I really don't think it'd bother me personally if the chef had an issue with beef. It's not a crime or the end of the world IMO.

I'd just serve something else, beef or lamb or something.

I don't see the problem.

Ok, let's try it another way.

My dear friend is Mr Wang. Wang owns a chinese take away. Many of his dishes, some of his most popular ones, are based on pork. He interviews for a new chef and a Muslim chef applies for the job, but makes it clear he cannot work with pork.

Do you think Mr Wang should not be allowed to take this into account when deciding who to hire for the position?

Shenshen

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I
And if the Doctor refused me or my family a transfusion I'd simply ask for another Doctor who would. I'd assume if you needed a transfusion you are in a hospital so there has to be another Doctor somewhere who will help.

You'd hope so, wouldn't you?
Imagine arriving in an overcrowded A&E at 2 in the morning after an accident, and the only doctor available to look after you straight away happened to be the one who isn't allowed to save your life due to his religion?

I don't believe in completely ostracising people for their faiths. Look what happened in Germany and Europe in the 1940s when a small mustached gentleman called Adolf decided to treat a group of people called Jews that way.

Extreme example I know, but that's the first thing I thought of when I read this. These kinds of ideas can be dangerous IMO.

No, not an example at all, actually.
If people had be prosecuted for their religion, why would you think they killed those Jews who had converted to another faith?

Zillah

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Right because everything you've ever said makes complete sense :rolleyes:

I'm sure I've failed to express myself clearly in the past, and when I did I would be receptive to correction, or dare I say, grateful.

I just don't think I personally would be all that bothered if some-one didn't want to tough beef thats all.

No nonsense there just personal opinion.

It is both your opinion and nonsense, not to mention ingratiating, condescending, irrational and short sighted.

Shenshen

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Yes I did read. What's your point?

All I said was personally I really don't think it'd bother me personally if the chef had an issue with beef. It's not a crime or the end of the world IMO.

I'd just serve something else, beef or lamb or something.

I don't see the problem.

So you would change the menu of your restaurant, removing current customer-favourites and removing choice for your customers, just to accomodate a chef you haven't even hired yet?

And you don't see the problem?

AudreyHepburn

Zillah wrote: »

.It is both your opinion and nonsense, not to mention ingratiating, condescending, irrational and short sighted.

How is it any of these things?

If anything refusing to hire him on the basis of his religion would be all of the above.

And again it's just my opinion. Disagree with me if you want but that does not make it nonsense.

AudreyHepburn

Shenshen wrote: »

So you would change the menu of your restaurant, removing current customer-favourites and removing choice for your customers, just to accomodate a chef you haven't even hired yet?

And you don't see the problem?

Resturaunts change their menus all the time I've seen it in some the places I go to and I've never had an issue with it.

What problem exactly?

krudler

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Resturaunts change their menus all the time I've seen it in some the places I go to and I've never had an issue with it.

What problem exactly?

not because of the chefs religion though. Its called variety.

AudreyHepburn

krudler wrote: »

not because of the chefs religion though. Its called variety.

You have no idea why they might change a menu any more than I do.

Unless of course you are chef yourself, in which case I take your point.

robindch

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

robindch wrote: »

Would you be happy to hire a cook for your restaurant if the person told you that they were islamic or jewish, and couldn't touch pork?

I actually don't think it would bother me no. I'd probablu just serve beef or lamb instead.

Imagine that this restaurant is somewhere in deepest Germany, so in order that you can make money, you must serve pork. Imagine that you do not have the option to serve beef or lamb. Try to ride a bit with me on this one...

Would you hire the cook?

Shenshen

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Resturaunts change their menus all the time I've seen it in some the places I go to and I've never had an issue with it.

What problem exactly?

How many restaurants change their menu more than once or twice a year?
And how many do it to remove things people actually buy and eat, rather than remove options that are just not popular enough to keep going?

So you run the restaurant, it's your place, you've decorated it the way you wanted, and so far, you've served the food you wanted to serve... and now you need a new chef, you've got 5 applicants, one of whom would start out by making you change the menu you and your current chef spent so long to get right. And you would honestly hire him rather than any of the other guys?

You have to forgive me, but I don't think you're being honest.

AudreyHepburn

robindch wrote: »

Imagine that this restaurant is somewhere in deepest Germany, so in order that you can make money, you must serve pork. Imagine that you do not have the option to serve beef or lamb. Try to ride a bit with me on this one...

Would you hire the cook?

In that case no I wouldn't I'll give you that.

But if I could get alternatives I'd have no problem.

mehfesto

Hello welcome to O'Flanaghans Genuine Irish Pub.

The Irish Breakfast no longer comes with Sausages or Bacon, because our chef is a bit sensitive on that issue. Similarly our Sunday roast doesn't have ham as an option anymore....

And the chipper next door has a new Jewish chef, so battered burgers are off, because the batter mixture contains milk and you can't mix meat and milk...


FFS




Moving on.

Shenshen

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

You have no idea why they might change a menu any more than I do.

Unless of course you are chef yourself, in which case I take your point.

I do, and usually it's for two reasons :

1) Some of the ingredients have gone up in price, or are less easy to procure

2) Remove items that weren't ordered frequently enough to safe on staff costs and make room for new choices.

AudreyHepburn

Shenshen wrote: »

How many restaurants change their menu more than once or twice a year?
And how many do it to remove things people actually buy and eat, rather than remove options that are just not popular enough to keep going?

So you run the restaurant, it's your place, you've decorated it the way you wanted, and so far, you've served the food you wanted to serve... and now you need a new chef, you've got 5 applicants, one of whom would start out by making you change the menu you and your current chef spent so long to get right. And you would honestly hire him rather than any of the other guys?

You have to forgive me, but I don't think you're being honest.

So I'm liar now? I don't know why I bother sometimes.

If the chef was good at his job and had good ideas that could rejuvenate my restaurant and bring in more customer then yes of course I'd hire.

Shenshen

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

In that case no I wouldn't I'll give you that.

But if I could get alternatives I'd have no problem.

Why not just hire another chef?

Shenshen

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

So I'm liar now? I don't know why I bother sometimes.

If the chef was good at his job and had good ideas that could rejuvenate my restaurant and bring in more customer then yes of course I'd hire.

We're talking about a chef who is just as good as all the other applicants, but refuses to handle pork.
Or hell, take my case, make him a vegetarian! Would you blame McDonald's for not hiring a vegetarian as a burger flipper if the person refuses to touch meat?

AudreyHepburn

Shenshen wrote: »

Why not just hire another chef?

If the chef is willing to cook everything else bar pork and is good at what he does I see no reason not to hire him.

I've never heard of a restaurant going out of business because a particular food isn't served.

AudreyHepburn

Shenshen wrote: »

We're talking about a chef who is just as good as all the other applicants, but refuses to handle pork.
Or hell, take my case, make him a vegetarian! Would you blame McDonald's for not hiring a vegetarian as a burger flipper if the person refuses to touch meat?

Of course not no.

Shenshen

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

If the chef is willing to cook everything else bar pork and is good at what he does I see no reason not to hire him.

I've never heard of a restaurant going out of business because a particular food isn't served.

Try running a vegetarian restaurant in rural Ireland, I dare you.

Shenshen

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Of course not no.

So it's ok to discriminate against vegetarians, but not against Muslims?

AudreyHepburn

Shenshen wrote: »

So it's ok to discriminate against vegetarians, but not against Muslims?

Where did that come from? I don't discriminate against anyone. That's why I'd hire the Jewish chef

Shenshen

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Where did that come from? I don't discriminate against anyone. That's why I'd hire the Jewish chef

You said you wouldn't blame McDonald's for not hiring a fry cook who refuses to touch the burgers....

So which is it to be, now?

drkpower

What if its a Ribs place and they only have a couple of non-pork based menu items? Change their business model to suit their chef's sensibilities?

This is fun!

AudreyHepburn

Let me answer all your scenarios by saying, I'd assume most restaurants are equal oppertunities employers and so would I be were I in the line business so I won't not hire a chef on the basis of his religion.

I'd try to find a way of working around it, what that way would be would depend on the scenario.

Shenshen

drkpower wrote: »

What if its a Ribs place and they only have a couple of non-pork based menu items? Change their business model to suit their chef's sensibilities?

This is fun!

What if he has to work during Ramadan and can't taste the food before it's sent out?
You can ruin a restaurants reputation easily enough with a few oversalted plates.

Endless possibilities

robindch

Folks -- banter is good, but please remember that AudreyHepburn's on her own here, so please try to avoid ganging up.

There you are, now, good boys

c_man

drkpower wrote: »

What if its a Ribs place and they only have a couple of non-pork based menu items?

Getting hungry now!

Shenshen

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Let me answer all your scenarios by saying, I'd assume most restaurants are equal oppertunities employers and so would I be were I in the line business so I won't not hire a chef on the basis of his religion.

I'd try to find a way of working around it, what that way would be would depend on the scenario.

"Equal opportunities" only kicks in when you have more than one applicant with the same qualifications.
Not being willing to handle pork when working for a restaurant specialising in ribs and Irish breakfasts would in my eyes most certainly make you less qualified to work there.
Same goes for applying at a job at an off license and refusing to sell alcohol, while we're at it.

AudreyHepburn

robindch wrote: »

Folks -- banter is good, but please remember that AudreyHepburn's on her own here, so please try to avoid ganging up.

There you are, now, good boys

It's ok Rob I'm well used to it by now! Happens everytime I open mouth here;)