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Is This Unreasonable?
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08-09-2010 10:54am#1I own and manage 3 properties, 2 are let to students and beyond general untidyness, are easily enough managed. The other is smaller but causes far more difficulty. Its strange. Its a lovely 2 bedroom flat, in one of the best close to the city centre locations. I set the rent cheap for the area - the reason being that tenants never seem to stay very long there.
Latest one was typical - twenty something female, 6 months lease. Everything fine for the first two months, then the moaning starts. The central heating broke. I booked a plumber. Plumber found it needed a part and booked further appointment for full repair 10 days later. Tenant was told this and had use of an electric shower and fully tested and compliant alternative electric heater in the interim.
Cue her phoning me almost nightly, around 8.30-9.30pm to complain about lack of central heating. Next night she claims its working. Then a bulb bursts and cuts out the main circuit for the lights in the lounge. But there are side lights she can use. I try to explain to her how to push up the tripped fuse in the fuse box, but it is beyond her. So I book an electrician for a few days hence. Then she complains that the alternative bathroom with the electric shower she is using isn't suitable because the lock is broken on the door. First I've heard of it, and since the other tenant is away on holiday, I tell her I don't propose to do anything about it until I can get up there to inspect the flat in a couple of weeks time.
Blesses silence for one night and then a phone call at 9.30pm the next night - she intends to cancel her rental payment due the next day for the month because of the problems in the flat. I tell her I'm not happy with her living there without paying rent and she says she will move out the next day. Now she is gone! Naturally without paying bills...
I will chase her up, thats not the issue. She even left it clean. I just wondered if anyone else gets plagued by these sorts of tenants, who don't respect the fact they have signed a legally binding agreement, who don't realise that things break and who constantly hassle landlords, despite being given a day and time for the thing to be fixed, who basically struggle with being adults living away from home and not having mummy and daddy on call...
Or is just me??!0
Comments
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There are just some people out there like that. A quick search of this forum throws up all kinds of weird and wonderful tenants and landlords.0
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TBH if I was a tenant I wouldn't be happy to be without central heating for 10 or more days.
And your attitude to the lock being broken would put me off too. The mix of a seemingly uncaring attitude, heating problems, and being a few days without light, would have me considering moving out too.
In saying that you probably are a decent landlord as you seemed to get someone in to look at the problems quickly but 2 of the most important things in a flat are heat and electricity. Having problems ongoing with both of them at the same time is off putting for any tenant.0 -
when did this happen?
You would not have needed the heating on any time since late Feb to be honest and its only an internal lock, not a big deal at all. We have at least two that don't work and it doesn't matter at all tbh. If external, I would want it fixed immediately though0 -
TBH if I was a tenant I wouldn't be happy to be without central heating for 10 or more days.
And your attitude to the lock being broken would put me off too. The mix of a seemingly uncaring attitude, heating problems, and being a few days without light, would have me considering moving out too.
In saying that you probably are a decent landlord as you seemed to get someone in to look at the problems quickly but 2 of the most important things in a flat are heat and electricity. Having problems ongoing with both of them at the same time is off putting for any tenant.
It happened this month, ie August. The tenant was certainly not left without electricity, simply ceiling lights in the living room did not work but there were wall lights which did and a tall highlighter lamp. There was heating provided by a freestanding modern electric heater, although it wasn't cold. I don't think any reasonable person would see a fuse in a circuit breaker being tripped as a problem with the electricity as all modern wiring systems have such a safety device. I guess you could have really old wiring which didn't trip the circuit breaker?
I don't really see what else I could have done. I answered the tenant's phone calls, even though she phoned me in the late evening and on Sundays. I booked a plumber, even though I wasted a call out charge the previous time when there was nothing wrong with the heating. The fuse was flipped up for her in the fuse box by the plumber (whose opinions of her capability I will not repeat), which quite frankly, any responsible adult should be able to do, particularly when someone explains it to her over the phone.
I guess I could have rushed round, held her hand and personally boiled the kettle to make hot water bottles for her, but I'm a landlord and I keep a polite distance with my tenants, simply responding to them quickly. You do however have to sift out the essential complaints from the non-essential. I must admit I find nightly phone calls from a tenant does make me adopt a slightlier icy tone - the unspoken meaning in this case being "I am dealing with it. You have been given a date for the plumber. Please don't harass me over this as you are not suffering any hardship and I am responding as well as anyone can in the circumstances to your demands". I am not a substitute parent.
I've been a landlord for 13 years and in that time I have noticed that tenants seem more and more unable to do simple things for themselves.0 -
Cookie_Monster wrote: »when did this happen?
You would not have needed the heating on any time since late Feb to be honest and its only an internal lock, not a big deal at all. We have at least two that don't work and it doesn't matter at all tbh. If external, I would want it fixed immediately though
Regarding the lock, it sounds to me that you rent the 2 rooms separately and therefore the 2 tenants are effectively strangers so this might be why she was concerned about the internal lock. Plus, if she was only going to have to use that shower for say 2 weeks but you wouldn't fix the problem for 3 weeks you are basically just ignoring it.
As for heating, probably not needed but I've lived in places that needed the heating on during August so it can depend on the place.
Although, The tenant does sound like a chore and someone who can't do the most basic thing herself, so I can understand some of your annoyance.
Personally after getting the landlords permission I'd fix simple things myself, e.g. change an internal locks etc, but I have been burned by a landlord before who agreed I could change a lock then when I went looking for my deposit back a few months later complained that I had thrown out the broken lock, so it can be in a tenants best interest to just leave everything to the landlord.
I'd also say you are likely to get more reliable tenants if you rent it as a full apartment rather than 2 rooms. If I rent a room I generally see it a somewhere to stay that I don't have to really care about, whereas if I rent a full place I see it as MY place so I'd care more about the upkeep0 -
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I own and manage 3 properties, 2 are let to students and beyond general untidyness, are easily enough managed. The other is smaller but causes far more difficulty. Its strange. Its a lovely 2 bedroom flat, in one of the best close to the city centre locations. I set the rent cheap for the area - the reason being that tenants never seem to stay very long there.
Latest one was typical - twenty something female, 6 months lease. Everything fine for the first two months, then the moaning starts. The central heating broke. I booked a plumber. Plumber found it needed a part and booked further appointment for full repair 10 days later. Tenant was told this and had use of an electric shower and fully tested and compliant alternative electric heater in the interim.
Cue her phoning me almost nightly, around 8.30-9.30pm to complain about lack of central heating. Next night she claims its working. Then a bulb bursts and cuts out the main circuit for the lights in the lounge. But there are side lights she can use. I try to explain to her how to push up the tripped fuse in the fuse box, but it is beyond her. So I book an electrician for a few days hence. Then she complains that the alternative bathroom with the electric shower she is using isn't suitable because the lock is broken on the door. First I've heard of it, and since the other tenant is away on holiday, I tell her I don't propose to do anything about it until I can get up there to inspect the flat in a couple of weeks time.
Blesses silence for one night and then a phone call at 9.30pm the next night - she intends to cancel her rental payment due the next day for the month because of the problems in the flat. I tell her I'm not happy with her living there without paying rent and she says she will move out the next day. Now she is gone! Naturally without paying bills...
I will chase her up, thats not the issue. She even left it clean. I just wondered if anyone else gets plagued by these sorts of tenants, who don't respect the fact they have signed a legally binding agreement, who don't realise that things break and who constantly hassle landlords, despite being given a day and time for the thing to be fixed, who basically struggle with being adults living away from home and not having mummy and daddy on call...
Or is just me??!
Mate, I have similar problems. I am a professional swimmer and it is becoming a pain.
> Every time I train I end up soaking wet. It is a total hassle I tell you.
> When I go to work, I am made wear these tiny little trunks, which is a little embarrassing to stand there basically in the nip! I mean, the cheek!
> They also put chlorine in the water and this can hurt my eyes. What's to be done??
> After I've finished work I find that my fingers are all wrinkly and it's unsightly and might damage my fingers long-term. Why does the universe hate me so much??
Honestly, if only there was no water, no swimming trunks, no chlorine and no wrinkled fingers, professional swimming would suit me down to the ground. Sigh.0 -
It happened this month, ie August. The tenant was certainly not left without electricity, simply ceiling lights in the living room did not work but there were wall lights which did and a tall highlighter lamp. There was heating provided by a freestanding modern electric heater, although it wasn't cold. I don't think any reasonable person would see a fuse in a circuit breaker being tripped as a problem with the electricity as all modern wiring systems have such a safety device. I guess you could have really old wiring which didn't trip the circuit breaker?
I don't really see what else I could have done. I answered the tenant's phone calls, even though she phoned me in the late evening and on Sundays. I booked a plumber, even though I wasted a call out charge the previous time when there was nothing wrong with the heating. The fuse was flipped up for her in the fuse box by the plumber (whose opinions of her capability I will not repeat), which quite frankly, any responsible adult should be able to do, particularly when someone explains it to her over the phone.
I guess I could have rushed round, held her hand and personally boiled the kettle to make hot water bottles for her, but I'm a landlord and I keep a polite distance with my tenants, simply responding to them quickly. You do however have to sift out the essential complaints from the non-essential. I must admit I find nightly phone calls from a tenant does make me adopt a slightlier icy tone - the unspoken meaning in this case being "I am dealing with it. You have been given a date for the plumber. Please don't harass me over this as you are not suffering any hardship and I am responding as well as anyone can in the circumstances to your demands". I am not a substitute parent.
I've been a landlord for 13 years and in that time I have noticed that tenants seem more and more unable to do simple things for themselves.
You sound an awful lot more responsive than most landlords I've had!
You have a responsibility as a landlord but you seem fair enough.
Just put it down to the fact that a bit of cop-on is lost on some people:rolleyes:0 -
I own and manage 3 properties, 2 are let to students and beyond general untidyness, are easily enough managed. The other is smaller but causes far more difficulty. Its strange. Its a lovely 2 bedroom flat, in one of the best close to the city centre locations. I set the rent cheap for the area - the reason being that tenants never seem to stay very long there.
Latest one was typical - twenty something female, 6 months lease. Everything fine for the first two months, then the moaning starts. The central heating broke. I booked a plumber. Plumber found it needed a part and booked further appointment for full repair 10 days later. Tenant was told this and had use of an electric shower and fully tested and compliant alternative electric heater in the interim.
Cue her phoning me almost nightly, around 8.30-9.30pm to complain about lack of central heating. Next night she claims its working. Then a bulb bursts and cuts out the main circuit for the lights in the lounge. But there are side lights she can use. I try to explain to her how to push up the tripped fuse in the fuse box, but it is beyond her. So I book an electrician for a few days hence. Then she complains that the alternative bathroom with the electric shower she is using isn't suitable because the lock is broken on the door. First I've heard of it, and since the other tenant is away on holiday, I tell her I don't propose to do anything about it until I can get up there to inspect the flat in a couple of weeks time.
Blesses silence for one night and then a phone call at 9.30pm the next night - she intends to cancel her rental payment due the next day for the month because of the problems in the flat. I tell her I'm not happy with her living there without paying rent and she says she will move out the next day. Now she is gone! Naturally without paying bills...
I will chase her up, thats not the issue. She even left it clean. I just wondered if anyone else gets plagued by these sorts of tenants, who don't respect the fact they have signed a legally binding agreement, who don't realise that things break and who constantly hassle landlords, despite being given a day and time for the thing to be fixed, who basically struggle with being adults living away from home and not having mummy and daddy on call...
Or is just me??!
Seems to me that the difficulties are with the apartment itself - lots of problems. Your response seems inadequate. If you hired a car would you be happy with no heating for over a week, only being able to use 'side lights' as for not fixing the lock on the toilet until you feel like...
What do you think you are being paid for exactly? Your property is your business and it is up to you to maintain it perfectly.0 -
It happened this month, ie August. The tenant was certainly not left without electricity, simply ceiling lights in the living room did not work but there were wall lights which did and a tall highlighter lamp. There was heating provided by a freestanding modern electric heater, although it wasn't cold. I don't think any reasonable person would see a fuse in a circuit breaker being tripped as a problem with the electricity as all modern wiring systems have such a safety device. I guess you could have really old wiring which didn't trip the circuit breaker?
I don't really see what else I could have done. I answered the tenant's phone calls, even though she phoned me in the late evening and on Sundays. I booked a plumber, even though I wasted a call out charge the previous time when there was nothing wrong with the heating. The fuse was flipped up for her in the fuse box by the plumber (whose opinions of her capability I will not repeat), which quite frankly, any responsible adult should be able to do, particularly when someone explains it to her over the phone.
I guess I could have rushed round, held her hand and personally boiled the kettle to make hot water bottles for her, but I'm a landlord and I keep a polite distance with my tenants, simply responding to them quickly. You do however have to sift out the essential complaints from the non-essential. I must admit I find nightly phone calls from a tenant does make me adopt a slightlier icy tone - the unspoken meaning in this case being "I am dealing with it. You have been given a date for the plumber. Please don't harass me over this as you are not suffering any hardship and I am responding as well as anyone can in the circumstances to your demands". I am not a substitute parent.
I've been a landlord for 13 years and in that time I have noticed that tenants seem more and more unable to do simple things for themselves.
If someone has never done this before; they need showing. It is not everyone who can handle dealing with switches like that.
It can be scary.
The first time it happened to us, we insisted the landlord come and show us and do it for us; after that we have managed ourselves.
Maybe you could have suggested that it was the trip switch before calling the plumber?0 -
OP, I know this post looks like a point-by-point attack by it's not meant that way, I just have a response to numerous points of yours.I try to explain to her how to push up the tripped fuse in the fuse box, but it is beyond her.
Some people are afraid to touch fuse boxes, for fear of making a problem worse or even fear of getting a shock.I tell her I don't propose to do anything about it until I can get up there to inspect the flat in a couple of weeks time.
If I told a landlord that a lock was broken and they responded with "Well, I'm not going to do anything about it for a couple of weeks." I would be planning my move then.Blesses silence for one night and then a phone call at 9.30pm the next night - she intends to cancel her rental payment due the next day for the month because of the problems in the flat.
Maybe then she was planning to move but stayed there until the rent was due. She could have been giving you one more chance to actually fix what was broken.these sorts of tenants, who don't respect the fact they have signed a legally binding agreement,
That works both ways. Most leases stipulate that the landlord must keep the place in good repair. Saying you don't propose to fix something for a couple of weeks is not keeping a property in good repair.who don't realise that things break and who constantly hassle landlords, despite being given a day and time for the thing to be fixed,
My last landlord had no problem giving dates and times for things to be fixed, the dates and times came and went without him doing anything though.Everything fine for the first two months, then the moaning starts.
Dare I say the moaning started because things starting breaking? I'm sorry you're having trouble with the flat but it sounds like the tenants was having problems with it too.0 -
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I think people are being a bit harsh on the OP here. He seems an ideal landlord, first of all he answers his phone!(at unreasonable hours too) books things to be fixed when he is told about them. As far as I can see the only thing he did wrong was to put the lock on the long finger(when the other tenant was away on holidays so there was no need for it)0
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You seem a decent landlord even if your tradesmen are pretty slow.
If you book an electrician it shouldn't take a few days to get them to call around.
Lots of electricians out there
It's a two bed apartment.
If the girl was sharing the apartment then a lock on the bathroom isn't an unreasonable request, in fact it's pretty much an assumption that the bathroom will have a lock.
Yes it's an internal lock but she is sharing the flat with another tenant, a lock is needed so why the delay?
Sorry but a few weeks to sort it isn't acceptable.
Edit, though the other tenant was away, I see that point.0 -
just a quick point, I definitely wouldnt be comfortable with using a shower in an unlocked bathroom even f the other tennant was away. Knowing my luck, the other tenants brother / sister / friend etc could have the keys and could be sent around to collect this that or the other so I see her point here.
You do sound like a good enough landlord, but I would definitely agree with someones post above that you would probably get more loyal tenants if you rented the apartment as one unit0 -
I own and manage 3 properties, 2 are let to students and beyond general untidyness, are easily enough managed. The other is smaller but causes far more difficulty. Its strange. Its a lovely 2 bedroom flat, in one of the best close to the city centre locations. I set the rent cheap for the area - the reason being that tenants never seem to stay very long there.
Latest one was typical - twenty something female, 6 months lease. Everything fine for the first two months, then the moaning starts. The central heating broke. I booked a plumber. Plumber found it needed a part and booked further appointment for full repair 10 days later. Tenant was told this and had use of an electric shower and fully tested and compliant alternative electric heater in the interim.
Cue her phoning me almost nightly, around 8.30-9.30pm to complain about lack of central heating. Next night she claims its working. Then a bulb bursts and cuts out the main circuit for the lights in the lounge. But there are side lights she can use. I try to explain to her how to push up the tripped fuse in the fuse box, but it is beyond her. So I book an electrician for a few days hence. Then she complains that the alternative bathroom with the electric shower she is using isn't suitable because the lock is broken on the door. First I've heard of it, and since the other tenant is away on holiday, I tell her I don't propose to do anything about it until I can get up there to inspect the flat in a couple of weeks time.
Blesses silence for one night and then a phone call at 9.30pm the next night - she intends to cancel her rental payment due the next day for the month because of the problems in the flat. I tell her I'm not happy with her living there without paying rent and she says she will move out the next day. Now she is gone! Naturally without paying bills...
I will chase her up, thats not the issue. She even left it clean. I just wondered if anyone else gets plagued by these sorts of tenants, who don't respect the fact they have signed a legally binding agreement, who don't realise that things break and who constantly hassle landlords, despite being given a day and time for the thing to be fixed, who basically struggle with being adults living away from home and not having mummy and daddy on call...
Or is just me??!
TBH i wouldn't want you as my landlord.0 -
feelingstressed wrote: »You seem a decent landlord even if your tradesmen are pretty slow.
If you book an electrician it shouldn't take a few days to get them to call around.
Lots of electricians out there
It's a two bed apartment.
If the girl was sharing the apartment then a lock on the bathroom isn't an unreasonable request, in fact it's pretty much an assumption that the bathroom will have a lock.
Yes it's an internal lock but she is sharing the flat with another tenant, a lock is needed so why the delay?
Sorry but a few weeks to sort it isn't acceptable.
Edit, though the other tenant was away, I see that point.
The fact the other tenant was away is irrelevant. He could come back early. Someone else might have a key and come in, and the landlord has a key and could come in. I am not suggesting the landlord does, but if you are a single female in a shared flat, these are the sort of things that will go through your mind.
I'm a pretty big bloke, but even I feel uncomfortable if there is no lock on the toilet, and/or shower, for the simple reason that those are the places I feel vulnerable.I don't really see what else I could have done. I answered the tenant's phone calls, even though she phoned me in the late evening and on Sundays.
If she works standard or semi-standard hours, then when would you expect her to call you? Most people are not meant to make or take calls during work hours. If she called you at 1pm when you were having your lunch I suspect you would also be complaining.I booked a plumber, even though I wasted a call out charge the previous time when there was nothing wrong with the heating. The fuse was flipped up for her in the fuse box by the plumber (whose opinions of her capability I will not repeat), which quite frankly, any responsible adult should be able to do, particularly when someone explains it to her over the phone.
I bet the plumber felt like a big man, telling you how clueless the woman was in the house, ignorant of the fact that if she had not been unwilling to flip the trip switch he wouldn't have gotten the job and the call out fee that goes with it.
To be honest, I dont blame her not wanting to go to the fusebox. Light bulbs go all the time, but its rare enough for them to go, and trip the fuse at the same time. Add that to the central heating which is not working, you might be more inclined to let some one else sort out the fusebox. Especially, if your not confident in that area.I guess I could have rushed round, held her hand and personally boiled the kettle to make hot water bottles for her, but I'm a landlord and I keep a polite distance with my tenants, simply responding to them quickly.
I suppose it depends on your definition of a quick response. Mine is that it gets dealt with and resolved quickly, not that you simply answer your phone.You do however have to sift out the essential complaints from the non-essential.
How do you sift them out? Is it a case that, in your opinion a lock on the bathroom door is non-essential? Or that central heating in august is non-essential?I must admit I find nightly phone calls from a tenant does make me adopt a slightlier icy tone - the unspoken meaning in this case being "I am dealing with it.
Why make it unspoken? Also, actions speak louder than words, it takes 10 minutes to put a lock on a bathroom door. Why not go round to the house and do it for her. Why does it need to take 3 weeks to get it organized?I've been a landlord for 13 years and in that time I have noticed that tenants seem more and more unable to do simple things for themselves.
I'd say its more a case that tenants have gotten stung a lot more by inexperienced landlords(I dont mean you), who have withheld deposits over tiny things, to the extent that people won't touch anything in the house, instead leaving it to the landlord to sort out. That and the quality of accommodation has gone down while peoples aspirations have gone up.
In my own experience, being a bit of a fixer, I have fixed many things in various houses over the years, and its amazing how difficult it can be to get money out of some landlords to pay just for the parts.0 -
This will probably be an unpopular view, but I can't believe the amount of stick and hassle that the OP is getting.
With all due respects to his tenant, who was probably a nice girl, she sounds like a whingy, moany ***** who complained over the smallest thing. Ok, there's very few tenants out there who have had nothing break or go wrong in a property, myself included. In my time as a tenant, I've had a fridge break, a washing machine die, and the wheel come off a lawnmower. None of them were actually my fault, the appliances were just old, ancient in the case of the lawnmower. I've also had fuses blow, the heating system break, mould grow due to poor ventilation in a bathroom, and leaks caused by shoody building in a top floor apartment. These I accepted because I know that things can and do break or go wrong, and it's not necessarily anybody's fault.
However, it is the landlord's reaction to these issues which is important. From what the OP posted above, it seems like he did take the necessary course of action regarding the heating and the ESB. He arranged for a plumber and electrician to come out and check it. It's not his fault that the heating couldn't be fixed on the spot. Moreover, anywhere I've lived, apartment or house, has not required to have heating on in August. Furthermore, the landlord provided an alternative, so there wasn't really any excuse for the tenant to phone about it every single day.
As for the lock on the door. My friend lived in a mixed house last year and the lock broke on the bathroom door. They contacted the landlord (who lived abroad) about it, and they said they'd do something about it. A month later, still no word, and when they asked if they could either change the lock themselves or arrange for somebody to change it for them, the landlord refused their offer. After about 5 months, the lock was eventually changed. It wasn't the worst thing that could have happened, but it was slightly inconvenient and required people shouting (usually at nobody) before they entered the bathroom (knocking on the door would have opened it!). I'd definitely take the landlord's three weeks over six months!
As for witholding rent rent because the heating and/or electricity wasn't working... I seem to remember a few threads in this forum recommending and promoting such actions....
Oh, and just to clarify, I'm not a landlord, nor ever have been. But I have been a tenant for at least the last ten years.0 -
Im inclined to agree with the OP's opinion. Tenants get away with an awful lot these days, in fact I dont see why anyone would buy a property when you can rent and get the owner to pay for absolutely everything.
Saying that, if you owned your own property, you would need to know how to reset a tripped switch and have the cop on to know that a washing machine is not draining cos theres something stuck in the filter etc etc. If you didnt, then you would learn pretty quick if you were paying the call out fees which are at least €90 before any works begin.
But thats just it. The tenants DONT pay the callout fees (and Im not suggesting that they should) so this means that they dont care what the problem is or how long it takes to get fixed. It also means that they misinform landlords about problems. Ive had tenants tell me the shower was completely broken when they just didnt know they had to pull the ceiling cord and Ive had tenants complain they had no hot water when they didnt switch on the immersion.
Tenants are more and more demanding these days because they know they can just up and leave and find another apartment at a moments notice. And thats just the way it is!0 -
I think people are actually being quite unreasonable to the OP.
Was there a lock on the bathroom door when the tenant moved in?
If so then how did it break? If the tenant broke the lock then surely it is their responsibility to fix it as this would be something that would be taken out of their deposit when they leave anyway.
With regards to the electricity and heating, I think these should be fixed as quickly as possible by the landlord although with the lights I think the fact that there was other lighting in the room makes it a lot less urgent.
Tenants need to realize that they are not living in hotels and landlords are not on 24 hour call to their every need. If a major problem occurs outside of normal working hours then tenants must do what any other grown up would and sort the problem and then seek reimbursement from their landlord if the problem was not caused by them.
The law is actually quite ambiguous in this area. If you check the citizen's information website you will find this quote under the Landlord's Responsibilities section;
[Landlord is obliged to]
"Repair and maintain the interior of the property to the standard it was in at the start of the tenancy
Repair and maintain the structure of the property
Reimburse tenants for any repairs they carry out which are your responsibility"
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/housing/renting-a-home/landlords_rights_and_obligations
However if you actually read the Tenancy Act 2004 this is what it says about maintaining the interior;
[Landlord has responsibility to]
"carry out to—
(ii) the interior of the dwelling all such repairs and
replacement of fittings as are, from time to time,
necessary so that that interior and those fittings are
maintained in, at least, the condition in which they
were at the commencement of the tenancy and in
compliance with any such standards for the time
being prescribed,"
Note the words I've underlined.
It also says that tenants must not cause any deterioration to the property beyond normal wear and tear (again ambiguous) and that landlords would not be responsible for such damage.
Tenancy Act here;
http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/acts/2004/a2704.pdf
I work for a company which owns and manages it's own apartments and I do have to deal with complaints that seem quite silly and perhaps people are pushing their luck, on the other hand I see the point that dealing with them is my job and I tend to deal with it on a case by case basis.0 -
Im inclined to agree with the OP's opinion. Tenants get away with an awful lot these days, in fact I dont see why anyone would buy a property when you can rent and get the owner to pay for absolutely everything.
Saying that, if you owned your own property, you would need to know how to reset a tripped switch and have the cop on to know that a washing machine is not draining cos theres something stuck in the filter etc etc. If you didnt, then you would learn pretty quick if you were paying the call out fees which are at least €90 before any works begin.
But thats just it. The tenants DONT pay the callout fees (and Im not suggesting that they should) so this means that they dont care what the problem is or how long it takes to get fixed. It also means that they misinform landlords about problems. Ive had tenants tell me the shower was completely broken when they just didnt know they had to pull the ceiling cord and Ive had tenants complain they had no hot water when they didnt switch on the immersion.
Tenants are more and more demanding these days because they know they can just up and leave and find another apartment at a moments notice. And thats just the way it is!
I have to agree - and I've found that people these days are either very lazy or idiotic in relation to real life.
Now I bought a few years ago - but I've been renting since I was 17, and yes I've had to ring Daddie to find out how to reset the trip switch or fiddle with the cistern to stop the toilet running, but that's how I learnt. I've also been electrocuted and had pipes burst, ceilings fall in from heavy rain, and washing machines break down etc and I've had to bare the brunt of the costs and figure out how to fix things and who to call. I might add I've had a lot of these issues before I bought my own place.
There is nothing wrong with a quick call to the landlord stating that something is broken, or something needs to be replaced - receipt is in the post, and is it acceptable to deduct from the next lot of rent etc, but common sense should prevail at all times. The landlord shouldn't be coming out to change lightbulbs or calling an electrician to flip a trip switch, and a landlord is not there for 24/7 callouts, the tenants have a bit of responsibility for the house/room they are renting.0 -
It's not his fault that the heating couldn't be fixed on the spot.
Isn't it? This is my problem with amateur landlords. Many of them are new to it and haven't a clue. Moreover, many of them seem never to have even rented themselves! This is certainly true of many celtic tiger specuvestors.
My last LL was an amateur (I was there 2006-2008 I think). Two days after moving in my hot water went. I rang the LL....and her reply was, "Oh". I could hear down the phone line she hadn't the first baldy notion what to do next. Next day she called to say she'd been ringing round the Yellow Pages and nobody was free for 10 days to come and fix it. I think it took 8 days in the end.
Now, she refunded my rent over that time, so fair dues. Things go wrong, she fronted up, fine. But my point is that being a landlord is a professional commitment. You can't do it half-arsed and hope to have a quiet life. Do it half arsed and take 10 days to fix the heating and you are going to have trouble. That's just how it is. By contrast, an old-school professional landlord would have a bunch of lads to do this work, or would have the competences himself, or would have a contacts book to find the right people right away.
In the OP, the landlord:
> Left the tenant with no central heating for 10 days
> Considered a single electric heater to be a suitable substitution. No mention that this wouldn't heat all the house, nor that these kinds of heater are incredibly expensive to run (does OP know that?).
> From what I can tell, left the tenant with no electricity for several days
> Was unable to visit the house to inspect something that the tenant needed fixing for several weeks.
And people are saying he's a good landlord and the tenant is being unreasonable?
The days of getting something for nothing are over. Being a landlord is hard and you have to work for your money. What OP is describing is having to work for his money. So what's the issue?
Ed: Meant to add, the tenant is totally in the wrong in the manner she broke her lease.0 -
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Treehouse72 wrote: »> Left the tenant with no central heating for 10 days
> Considered a single electric heater to be a suitable substitution. No mention that this wouldn't heat all the house, nor that these kinds of heater are incredibly expensive to run (does OP know that?).
> From what I can tell, left the tenant with no electricity for several days
> Was unable to visit the house to inspect something that the tenant needed fixing for several weeks.
My reading of the OP was different. They were left with no central heating due to a part needing to be ordered to fix the problem with the central heating, hardly the LL fault. The LL provided a heater in the middle of what has been a pretty decent August weather wise. They did not say they would take money off the rent for the added cost of the heater but at the same time they didn't say they wouldn't. There is an electric shower in the flat so they weren't left without hot water to wash with. They are sharing the flat and other person is away so they didn't need to heat the whole flat [flat not house] I've had to heat a whole 3 bedroom house with one heater in the middle of January before and didn't ring the landlord every night complaining. It's not always possible to fix things straight away.
They weren't left without power, they had a overhead lights in the sitting room go but had side lights and lamp. They blew a fuse and were unable to flip the trip switch so if they'd no power for a bit it was their own fault. I've shared with people who are total unable to do basic things like flip a trip switch but the LL tired to talk them through it, what were they expected to do? Drive over in the middle of night to do it? There was nothing wrong with the power in the flat, it was just a blown fuse.
Let me ask if a lightbulb goes in a flat would you ring a LL expecting them to come over and change it? Cus from the sound of it some people on this thread seem to think the LL is meant to look after everything.0 -
The central heating broke. I booked a plumber. Plumber found it needed a part and booked further appointment for full repair 10 days later. Tenant was told this and had use of an electric shower and fully tested and compliant alternative electric heater in the interim.
Going by what the OP posted, it would appear that the landlord phoned a plumber when the heating broke. No less would be expected. The plumber informed the landlord that a new part was required for the system, and said it would be 10 days before it could be replaced.
Unfortunately we don't know whether this was due to the fact that it would take 10 days for the plumber to acquire the necessary part, or whether he was booked up for the remainder of the week.
If, for argument's sake, it is assumed that the delay was due to the time it took to acquire the relevant part, then it wasn't necessarily the landlord's fault. Ok, maybe they could have called another plumber, but it is likely that they would have told him the same thing.
I dont understand how you can claim that the landlord is to blame for the the above, or why you feel is amateurish about that course of action. If I brought my car to a mechanic and he couldn't fix it on the spot because it required new parts (and, yes, it has happened me and family members on numerous occasions), would I blame him and call him amateurish? NO. An amateurish approach, in my opinion, would be me trying to fix my car or the landlord attempting to repair the system himself, causing even more problems for both tenant and landlord, not to mention the fact that it could be potentially dangerous.
There are many landlords out there who would not have provided a heater for the tenant for the duration it took to have the heating replaced.
And what apartment/house needs heating on during the month of August, especially the one we've just had. I lived in a 'cold' house for three years (i.e. it never retained heat, and during sub zero temperatures the heating would have to be on almost constantly in order to stay somewhat warm) and never, ever had to use the heating during the summer. Moreover, if you're cold, put on an extra jumper or hoodie. There's no excuse for a girl wandering around in a string vest top complaining they're cold and that they need the heating on. (I lived with one for 2 years, and she couldn't understand why on earth she should put on a jumper over her, erm, excuse for a top, when she could turn on heating instead! :eek:)0 -
Ok, I am being harsh. But my main point is that it is bloody ridiculous for a landlord to be whinging about this stuff. Stuff breaks and tenants are flakey. So what? Get over it or sell your properties and stop being a landlord. In addition to which, isn't this hassle and headache precisely what the landlord gets paid to endure? Do landlords expect to just sit back and watch the rent roll in? This is why sensible, professional landlords factor costs and labour into their yield calculations.0
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Treehouse72 wrote: »Ok, I am being harsh. But my main point is that it is bloody ridiculous for a landlord to be whinging about this stuff. Stuff breaks and tenants are flakey. So what? Get over it or sell your properties and stop being a landlord. In addition to which, isn't this hassle and headache precisely what the landlord gets paid to endure? Do landlords expect to just sit back and watch the rent roll in? This is why sensible, professional landlords factor costs and labour into their yield calculations.
I love how you have this idea that Landlords before the boom were professional, and since the boom and the "amateur" landlords appeared, the standards of landlord'ing of gone downhill.
I'm not a landlord, but the tenant in this case sounds completely useless, if I worked with someone like that, I'd probably be "whinging" about them too. How the hell do people like that exist in the real world?0 -
Some clarification here. I'm not an amateur landlord (I'm a qualified solicitor who works in licensing and have been a landlord for 13 years) and I'm not whinging, I'm simply letting off steam. What I find interesting from some of the responses on here is the sheer vitriol against landlords. It seems that they are seen as fair game by some who become almost abusive towards them. Makes you wonder whether these are people who have lost their deposits for breaching tenancy agreements and forever hold a grudge.
Of course this tenant was not left without electricity. Neither was she left without heat or a shower. She did not complain of being cold. The reason I was slightly slow to her complaint about the door lock (which was fully functional a few weeks earlier when she moved in) is that she had phoned me every single night that week already, alternatively telling me that the central heating was broken, no it was working now, it was broken again, it was working, the lights didn't work, etc. Every night there was a new problem. I would book a tradesman for one thing and the next night it was something else. The plumber I booked for 10 days hence will also do general repairs and I became unsure of how genuine her grievances were. My instinct as a landlord was not to encourage her by pandering to her too much. Her complaints were so numerous and her tone mildly hysterical at times. I did not visit immediately myself as I was on holiday at the time, as was the other tenant (whom she also complained about as he did not "help her enough").
It was not possible for the plumber to give an earlier date as the part was not stocked in this country and he had to wait until the manufacturer's agent got more of the part in. The 10 days represented a period in which he was confident that the part would be with him and in which he would be available.
My suspicion is that this tenant was simply not mature enough to cope with living on her own, at the age of 25. Its noticable that her "meltdown" came when the other tenant was away on holiday. I cannot act as someone's substitute parent and deal with issues they may have about lonlieness. What I do know is that tenants are becoming more and more frequently unable to act like independent, responsible adults and are increasingly rude when you are simply doing all that is possible in the circumstances to rectify problems - if it were my own house, it wouldn't have been fixed any quicker.
The law does not justify a tenant withholding their rent if a defect is fixed within a reasonable time. Properties are required to be of a reasonable standard, not a perfect standard. Unfortunately, things do break. It is not always possible for things to be repaired or replaced instantly.
The tenant has now contacted me to say that she made a mistake and wants to move back in. I told her I will think about it but tbh the answer will be no - I am not putting up with someone who withholds their rent every time something breaks, nor with someone who constantly phones and harasses me. I am considering giving the other tenant (who is actually an ideal tenant) notice and remarketing the property as an executive let as an entity at a much higher rent. For the style of property, the location and standard of decor (all the appliances, inc the central heating boiler, are only 18 months old), I could be getting 30-40% more rent. In that case, I don't mind getting such requests to fix things instantly.0 -
Latest one was typical - twenty something female, 6 months lease. Everything fine for the first two months, then the moaning starts. The central heating broke.
tbh, this sentence is the key for me. Complaining that a tenant 'starts moaning' because the heating broke is ludicrous imo.This will probably be an unpopular view, but I can't believe the amount of stick and hassle that the OP is getting.
With all due respects to his tenant, who was probably a nice girl, she sounds like a whingy, moany ***** who complained over the smallest thing. .
It's your opinion but what a pile of rubbish, 'the smallest thing'?, the heating was broken. The apartment appears to be in poor repair, with constant problems for tenants and a landlord who just wants them to keep their mouth shut when things break. The problem isn't the tenants it's the state of the place.0 -
Instead of turfing the other tenant out, ask them if they want to get in someone they know?0
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It's your opinion but what a pile of rubbish, 'the smallest thing'?,
A door handle/lock, in my opinion, is the smallest thing, unless, of course, it is an outside lock.
At 25 she should be more than capable of contacting the landlord to let them know that the lock is broken, and ask them if they would like her to buy a lock to replace it (and take the cost out of the rent), or if they would like to arrange it themselves.
Heating > lock therefore the lock is 'the smallest thing'0 -
No, its not in poor repair at all. What an utterly bizarre thing to suggest - do you have difficulties with your sentence interpretation? It has such new wiring that it seems that if a light bulb bursts, it trips the circuit so as to minimise any risk of fire. Depends on what you term "problems" I guess. A tripped fuse is not most people's idea of a "problem", unless you are being delibately inflammatory. Broken central heating is but if someone can invent an apartment in which nothing ever breaks and needs repair, they will make a fortune. Can I also point out that one of the above posters, who referred to the good old days of "professional landlords" (one has to question that definition) and of having a "bunch of lads to sort things out" is being anything but professional in suggesting using unqualified tradesmen to work on things such as gas and electricity. I never heard such an amateruish response in my life and I suggest that landlord updates his knowledge on current safety regulations.
Can I also point out that this tenant informed me that she would be ceasing payment of rent and moving out FOUR DAYS into the central heating failure. The reference to ten days is the total period that she would have been inconvenienced, had she waited for the due date.0 -
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No, its not in poor repair at all. What an utterly bizarre thing to suggest - do you have difficulties with your sentence interpretation? It has such new wiring that it seems that if a light bulb bursts, it trips the circuit so as to minimise any risk of fire. Depends on what you term "problems" I guess. A tripped fuse is not most people's idea of a "problem", unless you are being delibately inflammatory. Broken central heating is but if someone can invent an apartment in which nothing ever breaks and needs repair, they will make a fortune. Can I also point out that one of the above posters, who referred to the good old days of "professional landlords" (one has to question that definition) and of having a "bunch of lads to sort things out" is being anything but professional in suggesting using unqualified tradesmen to work on things such as gas and electricity. I never heard such an amateruish response in my life and I suggest that landlord updates his knowledge on current safety regulations.
Can I also point out that this tenant informed me that she would be ceasing payment of rent and moving out FOUR DAYS into the central heating failure. The reference to ten days is the total period that she would have been inconvenienced, had she waited for the due date.
Well my interpretation was that you were complaining of having constant trouble with the tenants of this apartment and not with the tenants of your others. Then you lists a number of problems with the apartment, my guess is that the previously problems were also tenants 'moaning' about these problems.
Resolve the problems - no issue with tenants, seems easy to me.
A light blub blowing doesn't 'trip the cct' to stop the risk of fire. It's indicative of poor electrics install.0
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