Is This Unreasonable?

iguana

ztoical wrote: »

They blew a fuse and were unablewilling to flip the trip switch so if they'd no power for a bit it was their own fault.

FYP:P

I'm honestly amazed at all of the people who wouldn't flip the trip switch in case it's dangerous. It's no more dangerous than switching on a light. I understand the tenant not knowing how to do it but refusing to after being told how to is her own fault. If anything the OP was a bit of a mug paying an electrician to come out for such a ridiculous job.

Distorted

copacetic wrote: »

Well my interpretation was that you were complaining of having constant trouble with the tenants of this apartment and not with the tenants of your others. Then you lists a number of problems with the apartment, my guess is that the previously problems were also tenants 'moaning' about these problems.

Resolve the problems - no issue with tenants, seems easy to me.

A light blub blowing doesn't 'trip the cct' to stop the risk of fire. It's indicative of poor electrics install.

The only problem (the central heating) has been resolved. As I say, if someone can invent the apartment in which nothing ever breaks, they will make a fortune.

And it is perfectly normal for a light bulb blowing the mini circuit breaker on the lighting circuit in the fuse box. Its a safeguard against fire, and all new wiring systems must now have it in place. It is annoying, but I can hardly take the wiring out and install old dodgy wiring! It was all done in accordance to building regulations 18 months ago and is fully PAT tested and in perfect condition. There is no fault with it. It does exactly what it is intended to do.

As for the problems I've been having with this apartment, my solution is actually to go upmarket with it and market it as an executive let.

syklops

A light blub blowing doesn't 'trip the cct' to stop the risk of fire. It's indicative of poor electrics install.

Correct.

I'm honestly amazed at all of the people who wouldn't flip the trip switch in case it's dangerous. It's no more dangerous than switching on a light. I understand the tenant not knowing how to do it but refusing to after being told how to is her own fault. If anything the OP was a bit of a mug paying an electrician to come out for such a ridiculous job.

If the light is not wired up correctly, and it blowing causes the fusebox to trip, then I can understand why the tenant would be reluctant to touch the fusebox.

Graces7

iguana wrote: »

FYP:P

I'm honestly amazed at all of the people who wouldn't flip the trip switch in case it's dangerous. It's no more dangerous than switching on a light. I understand the tenant not knowing how to do it but refusing to after being told how to is her own fault. If anything the OP was a bit of a mug paying an electrician to come out for such a ridiculous job.

Hmmm. To be faced with the control panel is a facer, frankly. The first time it happened to us we made the LL come and SHOW us. After that, fine. Wariness of the unknown is not ridiculous.

One thing occurs to me; that these days many more are having to rent and are not used to it.

If they have lived at home, then they will not have learned to do these jobs, any more than many have been taught to cook, clean, sew, knit etc.

Not their fault; the age we live in.

Us old ones have had a more basic education.

This old house has many small issues; we knew that when we took it and will sort some ourselves or with the help of friends; because we are used to doing that.

Osgoodisgood

Graces7 wrote: »

One thing occurs to me; that these days many more are having to rent and are not used to it.

If they have lived at home, then they will not have learned to do these jobs, any more than many have been taught to cook, clean, sew, knit etc.

Not their fault; the age we live in.

The alternative to renting is presumably to buy? In which case they would have to learn how to deal with things themselves anyway.

In any case the LL is not there to provide surrogate mammy services.

Graces7

Osgoodisgood wrote: »

The alternative to renting is presumably to buy? In which case they would have to learn how to deal with things themselves anyway.

In any case the LL is not there to provide surrogate mammy services.

Ah, you are a LL..

And expecting things you pay for to work is hardly "mammy services". And being mocked for being careful re electricity is also not that.

It would be the attitude of the LL that led to the sudden leaving..

Many do not have the ability/means to buy, especially not the younger ones.

The_Morrigan

Graces7 wrote: »

[/B]

Ah, you are a LL..

And expecting things you pay for to work is hardly "mammy services". And being mocked for being careful re electricity is also not that.

It would be the attitude of the LL that led to the sudden leaving..

Many do not have the ability/means to buy, especially not the younger ones.

Graces7 I'm not a landlord and I agree with the OP & Osgoodisgood and plenty others on here who don't think that a landlord should be available 24/7 or should be a substitute parent.
I'm also not "old" and can very much fend for myself, if I can't I call out a workman or ring my parents, the guys that live next door etc - When I was renting I rarely rang the landlord over stupid things unless it was a last resort that I couldn't sort out myself - and even when it was a major thing I'd just put in a call saying here last night about 10pm the washing machine started to leak we had to call out a plumber immediately, can we come to some sort of arrangement regarding the next lot of rent etc. Because I didn't harrass them everything a lightbulb needed changing or the radiators needed to be bled they were quite amicable.
The OP did all the necessary and the tenant wasn't left without essentiallys - ok the lock on the door was inconvenient, but the Landlord was on holidays.

I mean flip this - would the tenant be happy & content if the landlord was always contacting them to make sure everything was working and calling in every day to make sure the place was in tip top condition? I think not, they'd be calling the PRTB and Threshold and would be on here whinging about the landlord giving them no peace!

the_syco

Treehouse72 wrote: »

> They also put chlorine in the water and this can hurt my eyes. What's to be done??

Chlorine or piss does not hurt your eyes. Mix them together, however, and they will.

=-=

OP seems to be a decent landlord. Have rented in a few places, and when something breaks, and we can't fix it, we would then goto the LL.

Graces7 wrote: »

If they have lived at home, then they will not have learned to do these jobs, any more than many have been taught to cook, clean, sew, knit etc.

Not their fault; the age we live in.

Yes it is. If they're too lazy to cook and clean how is it not their fault? Also, not able to clean? WTF?

Graces7 wrote: »

Us old ones have had a more basic education.

Us young 'uns have access to a lot more info, provided we look for it.

Distorted

syklops wrote: »

Correct.



If the light is not wired up correctly, and it blowing causes the fusebox to trip, then I can understand why the tenant would be reluctant to touch the fusebox.

This light is most definately wired up correctly. It is because it meets the most current regulations that the circuit breaker is activated when a bulb bursts. Are all of the rest of you dealing with really old or incorrectly installed wiring or something that this is novel? When you are talking about wiring being shoddily done, please know what you are talking about, although how you can identify from the information given a star circuit being used when a mains is required or wires gathered together and taped up with sellotape, both examples of which my electrician has corrected in another property, I would be interested to know.

The other tenants in this flat who left before their lease was up did not do so because of the central heating - this is the first time it has broken. They left because of:
- buying another flat (2 of them, perfectly reasonable, gave full notice period, sorry to lose them as tenants)
- moving in with boyfriend (x 2, asked to excused from the full notice period, to which I reluctantly agreed, as they at least asked and were struggling for money)
- moved city (x 2 ditto above scenario)
- gave up job, tried to unsuccessfully seduce fellow tenant who left shortly afterwards, became obsessed about every minute detail of the property and rude and abusive to me on the phone, evicted her after getting a call on Christmas Eve telling me to install a new kitchen tap as she didn't like the old one and drainage grooves on the kitchen worktop)
- moved in with girlfriend following above

Not complaining, just outlining and a little bit fed up of tenants wafting in and out of my apartment for 3 months on a whim. As I say, I think (as previously suggested) the way forward is to let it as a two bedroom unit, and I don't think a more expensive rent will deter a good quality of tenant either.

Distorted

As a result of all of this, I am considering introducing monthly checks on all my properties. I wondered how often the rest of you check? I don't really like the idea as I consider it a bit intrusive, but if you inform the tenants in advance, it would appear to give them less chance to complain. It seems that most young people are now unable to go a month without needing some form of help, so I might as well pre-empt it and at least check basic things such as whether they have broken the hoover yet and whether they are able to use keys to lock the external doors.

Although it will not deter some of the more "interesting" phone calls I've had - "wheres the nearest supermarket?", "who do I ring to sort out broadband?" and of course the quite wonderful "Do you know which bus I can get to take me to ..."!

The_Morrigan

Distorted wrote: »

Although it will not deter some of the more "interesting" phone calls I've had - "wheres the nearest supermarket?", "who do I ring to sort out broadband?" and of course the quite wonderful "Do you know which bus I can get to take me to ..."!

Mother of God - please tell me you are kidding....

ztoical

Distorted wrote: »

As a result of all of this, I am considering introducing monthly checks on all my properties. I wondered how often the rest of you check? I don't really like the idea as I consider it a bit intrusive, but if you inform the tenants in advance, it would appear to give them less chance to complain. It seems that most young people are now unable to go a month without needing some form of help, so I might as well pre-empt it and at least check basic things such as whether they have broken the hoover yet and whether they are able to use keys to lock the external doors.

Although it will not deter some of the more "interesting" phone calls I've had - "wheres the nearest supermarket?", "who do I ring to sort out broadband?" and of course the quite wonderful "Do you know which bus I can get to take me to ..."!

Monthly check would be very OTT if you ask me. You say you don't want to be mammy to people yet going in ever month to check the place is coming across as doing just that. Only time I ever had monthly checks of a porperty was when living in college dorms in the states and I quickly moved out. Anything more then ever 3 months is considered too much and you won't find many people who will put up with monthly checks, I certainly wouldn't.

ztoical

Graces7 wrote: »

If they have lived at home, then they will not have learned to do these jobs, any more than many have been taught to cook, clean, sew, knit etc.

Not their fault; the age we live in.

Eh not the LL fault either if people aren't able to look after themsevles.

I've shared with some people over the years who hadn't a clue about basic maintence but have never called a LL to fix their own ignorance. I once came home after a two day trip to find the power out and my flatmate sitting in the dark. Power had been out for over a day but flatemate hadn't a clue what to do, thankfully they hadn't called the LL and I just walked out and flipped the switch. There are some basic household things you really should be able to do yourself no excuses. I've moved into properties and had no clue how to turn the boiler on but a 5 min search of the internet and woohoo boiler on.

Again I ask do you expect LL to come change lightbulbs if they go? I find changing lightbulbs alot more off putting then fliping a trip switch, your very close to actual eletricity and often times can't remeber if the power is on or off cus you flipped the light switch a couple of times when you came home. No one ever showed me how to changed a lightbulb but it needed changing so I figured it out, certainly wasn't going to be ringing the LL to deal with something like that.

Renting for nearly 14 years and can count on one hand the amount of times I've had to call a LL [main one being when the flat above ours flooded]

mikemac

A monthly check is way too much, I'd be handing you my notice if I had to see you every month.
But then I think I've talked to my landlord about four times in the last two years.
We don't talk to each other, it's the perfect relationship

The_Morrigan wrote: »

Because I didn't harrass them everything a lightbulb needed changing or the radiators needed to be bled they were quite amicable.

Good for you, I wouldn't have a clue how to do that with radiators.
I'd need someone to talk me through it and realy, if you don't know how it's not unreasonable to call the landlord over this.

The_Morrigan

feelingstressed wrote: »

Good for you, I wouldn't have a clue how to do that with radiators.
I'd need someone to talk me through it and realy, if you don't know how it's not unreasonable to call the landlord over this.

Well I learnt when I didn't get any heat out of a rad in a house I was renting years ago - and I rang my Dad. He sent me off to the local hardware store to buy a key, with an instruction to ring him back when I got it...and so the learning curve began.

D3PO

feelingstressed wrote: »

, I wouldn't have a clue how to do that with radiators.
I'd need someone to talk me through it and realy, if you don't know how it's not unreasonable to call the landlord over this.

Its not unreasonable but equally its something you could easily google. Personally speaking I think this thread shows that a lot of people expect a lot off landlords more I suggest than they should.

case in point. I had a flashing amber light on my alarm control box. Im no electrician but instead of calling one guess what I googled the problem and found out how to see the error log on the alarm and found the error.

a further seach showed it was due to the power cut we had during the recent lighting storm it was jsut an error to indicate battery power had been initited. and voila a third search showed me how to clear the error.

And in 5 mins I had sorted it. Now i could have been lazy and rang an alarm company or an electrician but I chose to take the responsible rather than lazy route.

Graces7

D3PO wrote: »

Its not unreasonable but equally its something you could easily google. Personally speaking I think this thread shows that a lot of people expect a lot off landlords more I suggest than they should.

case in point. I had a flashing amber light on my alarm control box. Im no electrician but instead of calling one guess what I googled the problem and found out how to see the error log on the alarm and found the error.

a further seach showed it was due to the power cut we had during the recent lighting storm it was jsut an error to indicate battery power had been initited. and voila a third search showed me how to clear the error.

And in 5 mins I had sorted it. Now i could have been lazy and rang an alarm company or an electrician but I chose to take the responsible rather than lazy route.

Great; but not everyone has that kind of ability.

And not everyone has the internet either.

And not every LL would want an amateur messing around.

When I owned my own house, there was a leak in the kitchen and I could not get a plumber it being Saturday evening.

So I did google the problem; and learned that the waste pipe had come loose after vigorous cleaning. I had to cut the hardboard at the back away with a bread knife ( most of us have no tools) to access it and replace it.

But that is how I work; others were incredulous.

Had I been in rented accommodation yes I would have called the LL. As I did later in my life when the boiler burst.

Maintenance is his job not mine.

iguana

syklops wrote: »

If the light is not wired up correctly, and it blowing causes the fusebox to trip, then I can understand why the tenant would be reluctant to touch the fusebox.

Flipping a trip switch isn't "touching the fuse box" anymore than flipping a light switch is moving the electric wires to create a circuit. It's the outcome of your action but all you are doing is moving a plastic, non-conducting switch. If there is a bigger problem the switch won't stay in place and then it would be reasonable to expect an electrician to be called out. Nobody is expecting the tenant to fix an electrical problem but flipping a trip switch is no more difficult or dangerous than switching on a light.

ztoical

Graces7 wrote: »

[/B]


Great; but not everyone has that kind of ability.

And not everyone has the internet either.

And not every LL would want an amateur messing around.

When I owned my own house, there was a leak in the kitchen and I could not get a plumber it being Saturday evening.

So I did google the problem; and learned that the waste pipe had come loose after vigorous cleaning. I had to cut the hardboard at the back away with a bread knife ( most of us have no tools) to access it and replace it.

But that is how I work; others were incredulous.

Had I been in rented accommodation yes I would have called the LL. As I did later in my life when the boiler burst.

Maintenance is his job not mine.

There is a massive difference between a roof leeking or a boiler busting and the trip switch going! For the former you should be getting proper professionals in to deal with the issue to have it done correctly and for insurance reasons. Someone calling a landlord because they don't know how to flip the trip switch and refusing to do it even when talked through it over the phone by the LL is frankly silly and I would have hung up on them. If they were without power it was their own fault, they'd been told how to fix it, they refused, though for them. A trip switch going is a very basic thing and not something any sane person would called an electrican for. Again do you expect a LL to come change lightbulbs or set the clock on the cooker? Seriously who the hell sees a trip switch going as a maintence issue? If it kept happening then yes there's a bigger issue that someone needs to look at but lots of things can cause a trip switch to go and it takes all of two mins to go flip it back.

iguana

ztoical wrote: »

Someone calling a landlord because they don't know how to flip the trip switch and refusing to do it even when talked through it over the phone by the LL is frankly silly and I would have hung up on them.

Calling the landlord is fair enough as not everyone will know about them. I grew up in an older house that didn't have trip switches and the first time I learned about them was when I was babysitting my cousin and the electricity went out downstairs. (When a bulb blew). I had to call my aunt and uncle who told me what to do. If I hadn't had that experience I wouldn't have known to check it the first time it happened to me once I moved out.

Advice for non-handy people. If the switch won't go back into place it's most likely a faulty electrical item rather than bad wiring which is causing the problem. Before you call for help unplug every electrical item in the area with no power then try the switch again. If the switch goes back into place this time then one of the items you've unplugged is causing the problem. Re-flip the switch and plug each item in one by one, testing the trip switch after each item. When you plug the faulty item back in the switch won't go back into place and you will know that the problem is either that item or that powerpoint. To test this you can plug the item in at another socket and test the trip switch again. If it switches for you the problem is the powerpoint, if it doesn't the problem is the item.

If it's the item it's worth checking that the plug is properly wired. If the live and neutral wires are touching that will be the cause of the shortage. You should also check the fuse in the plug. If that doesn't fix the item and it's yours you can choose to throw it out or get it repaired. If it's the landlord's item call him/her and let them know.

I know you might be thinking why should you do this but it's in your own best interests. It will take you no more than 15 minutes to identify the problem and have your electricity back. Much faster than even the most diligent landlord can possibly have an electrician around to you. You can also identify what the problem is and instead of calling the LL, waiting for an electrician having him/her identify that the problem is the fridge, for example. Then call the LL to say the fridge isn't working, then have to wait for someone to come and repair the fridge. You can identify that the fridge has a problem and tell the LL immediately so you only have to wait for one professional not two.

It's in your own best interests to be able to do routine maintenance.

Osgoodisgood

Graces7 wrote: »

[/B]

Ah, you are a LL..

Yes. Is that important? I have also rented many times and I have experienced good and bad in both tenants and landlords.

And expecting things you pay for to work is hardly "mammy services". And being mocked for being careful re electricity is also not that.

Calling the guy every night with (largely) irrelevant moaning is exactly what Mammys are for!

It would be the attitude of the LL that led to the sudden leaving..

Possibly. I don't know. Neither do you for that matter.

Many do not have the ability/means to buy, especially not the younger ones.

True, but exactly how that increases the burden on the LL is a mystery to me.

Osgoodisgood

The_Morrigan wrote: »

Mother of God - please tell me you are kidding....

I had a tenant call me on a Sunday night to tell me that a bulb had blown in the kitchen and that it was close to another bulb that had blown some weeks earlier. He said he wondered whether I could get an electrician out to survey the house. He seemed to be sober and relatively sane.
I sh*t you not.

syklops

Osgoodisgood wrote: »

I had a tenant call me on a Sunday night to tell me that a bulb had blown in the kitchen and that it was close to another bulb that had blown some weeks earlier. He said he wondered whether I could get an electrician out to survey the house. He seemed to be sober and relatively sane.
I sh*t you not.

Am I the only one here who thinks that doesn't sound completely unreasonable?

Wolfe Tone

syklops wrote: »

Am I the only one here who thinks that doesn't sound completely unreasonable?

Yes.

goat2

matrim wrote: »

TBH if I was a tenant I wouldn't be happy to be without central heating for 10 or more days.
And your attitude to the lock being broken would put me off too. The mix of a seemingly uncaring attitude, heating problems, and being a few days without light, would have me considering moving out too.

In saying that you probably are a decent landlord as you seemed to get someone in to look at the problems quickly but 2 of the most important things in a flat are heat and electricity. Having problems ongoing with both of them at the same time is off putting for any tenant.

as a landlord to a land lordi would not expect my tenants to put up with broken locks, broken down heating or no lighti would call these necesseties, and they would be rectified immediatly, and not take days to take care of, it should be seen after in hours not days,i do know these things happenthe heating broke 6 months ago in mine and needed a new water tank and fittings, called plumbers until i found one who could come within the hour, had to purchase all parts, and everything was up and running within 4 hours of the complaint being lodged, as for lock on door, that is a ten minuit job fixing or replacing, i have dealt with that also, also broken windows, broken cookers, and fridges, next day delivery i do on those items

astrofool

syklops wrote: »

Am I the only one here who thinks that doesn't sound completely unreasonable?

So, two bulbs, likely the same type, on the same switch, with the same estimated lifespan, blow within a few weeks of each other, and an electrician should be called to survey the house?

the_syco

goat2 wrote: »

i do know these things happenthe heating broke 6 months ago in mine and needed a new water tank and fittings, called plumbers until i found one who could come within the hour, had to purchase all parts, and everything was up and running within 4 hours of the complaint being lodged

So, even if the process to get the part which had to be ordered in from outside Ireland would take ten days, your plumber could have gotten it done in 4 hours? Cool. Can you give me his number, as I'd like to borrow his DeLorean :cool:

=-=

Sarcasm aside, I do agree with most of what goat2 has said, provided that the landlord lives near the house. I'll never rent from a landlord that lives more than an hours drive from the house again, as nothing gets fixed.

Graces7

the_syco wrote: »

So, even if the process to get the part which had to be ordered in from outside Ireland would take ten days, your plumber could have gotten it done in 4 hours? Cool. Can you give me his number, as I'd like to borrow his DeLorean :cool:

=-=

Sarcasm aside, I do agree with most of what goat2 has said, provided that the landlord lives near the house. I'll never rent from a landlord that lives more than an hours drive from the house again, as nothing gets fixed.

The further away the better for us;) They almost always have to call someone in anyways...

goat2

Distorted wrote: »

I own and manage 3 properties, 2 are let to students and beyond general untidyness, are easily enough managed. The other is smaller but causes far more difficulty. Its strange. Its a lovely 2 bedroom flat, in one of the best close to the city centre locations. I set the rent cheap for the area - the reason being that tenants never seem to stay very long there.

Latest one was typical - twenty something female, 6 months lease. Everything fine for the first two months, then the moaning starts. The central heating broke. I booked a plumber. Plumber found it needed a part and booked further appointment for full repair 10 days later. Tenant was told this and had use of an electric shower and fully tested and compliant alternative electric heater in the interim.

Cue her phoning me almost nightly, around 8.30-9.30pm to complain about lack of central heating. Next night she claims its working. Then a bulb bursts and cuts out the main circuit for the lights in the lounge. But there are side lights she can use. I try to explain to her how to push up the tripped fuse in the fuse box, but it is beyond her. So I book an electrician for a few days hence. Then she complains that the alternative bathroom with the electric shower she is using isn't suitable because the lock is broken on the door. First I've heard of it, and since the other tenant is away on holiday, I tell her I don't propose to do anything about it until I can get up there to inspect the flat in a couple of weeks time.

Blesses silence for one night and then a phone call at 9.30pm the next night - she intends to cancel her rental payment due the next day for the month because of the problems in the flat. I tell her I'm not happy with her living there without paying rent and she says she will move out the next day. Now she is gone! Naturally without paying bills...

I will chase her up, thats not the issue. She even left it clean. I just wondered if anyone else gets plagued by these sorts of tenants, who don't respect the fact they have signed a legally binding agreement, who don't realise that things break and who constantly hassle landlords, despite being given a day and time for the thing to be fixed, who basically struggle with being adults living away from home and not having mummy and daddy on call...

Or is just me??!

legally binding statements mean nothing, after all within the first few months they can give little notice of leaving, does not matter whether they sign in for one year or ten yrs, then again look at the bright side you will come across more and make a different judgement, it is all a learning curve.

OS119

Distorted wrote: »

Plumber found it needed a part and booked further appointment for full repair 10 days later. Tenant was told this and had use of an electric shower and fully tested and compliant alternative electric heater in the interim.

if, as i imagine it does, that means that she was also going to have no hot water for a minimum of 10 days, then i'd be on my toes as well.

your problems with fixing the system are your problems, they aren't hers - she rented an apartment with hot water and central heating and you stopped providing it. personally, the 'it'll take 10 days to get the part, and no, i can't be arsed to fix the lock' would be big red flashing lights in my head saying that none of this stuff was going to get fixed, and that all i'd get for the next 6 months is going to be excuses and fobbed off.

10 days to get the part may well be true, but it doesn't sound true - particularly when your landlord can't be bothered to fix the lock either.

she'd not lived their long, she'd not put down roots, stuff starts going wrong in the appartment and it looks suspiciously like the landlord doesn't give a monkies - exactly what did you expect?