Is This Unreasonable?

iguana

OS119 wrote: »

if, as i imagine it does, that means that she was also going to have no hot water for a minimum of 10 days, then i'd be on my toes as well.

The OP stated that there is also an electric shower which was unaffected by the plumbing problem.

OS119

iguana wrote: »

The OP stated that there is also an electric shower which was unaffected by the plumbing problem.

washing up in the shower - no hot water to wash her hands in after she's been to the toilet?

the words 'slum landlord' come hurtling towards this thread...

astrofool

The apartment would also likely have an immersion to heat the water.

iguana

OS119 wrote: »

washing up in the shower - no hot water to wash her hands in after she's been to the toilet?

No, she'd wash up in the kitchen sink with a kettle full of water.

And washing your hands with hot water is no more hygienic than using cold. Unless the water is boiling it doesn't kill bacteria and in fact the warmth would speed up the multiplication of bacteria.

event

syklops wrote: »

Am I the only one here who thinks that doesn't sound completely unreasonable?

if you got two flat wheels on a car, 2 weeks apart, would you take it in for a service?

ztoical

OS119 wrote: »

washing up in the shower - no hot water to wash her hands in after she's been to the toilet?

the words 'slum landlord' come hurtling towards this thread...

I thinki slum landlord is seriously pushing given the descriptions of the some of the places people post about on this forum and some go months waiting for repairs. 10 days to get part in is not a massive amount of time and as stated they had an electric shower to wash in, I would assume a kettle to boil water to wash dishes, and cold water with soap is perfectly fine to wash ones hands after using the toilet. What exactly do people propose the LL do? The part needs to be ordered they can't change that, do you want him to drive to the uk [assuming this were the part is being ordered from] and back again? Put her up in a hotel until the part arrives? Had she no water at all or no heat or power for a month+ and the LL was ignoring calls and making no effort to fix it I'd say fine but that is not the case here.

If you own a house and something brakes and you have to wait 10 days for a part to come in do you sell the house?

the_syco

OS119 wrote: »

i can't be arsed to fix the lock

I do wonder how the lock suddenly broke when the other tenant went on holidays?

OS119

ztoical wrote: »

If you own a house and something brakes and you have to wait 10 days for a part to come in do you sell the house?

and there's the fiundamental difference - this girl doesn't own the property, she pays for a service (an apartment with central heating and hot running water) how that service is supplied, or how much it costs the service provider isn't her problem - the tenants only problem is 'am i getting what i paid for, and are any problems getting fixed without causing me serious inconvenience?'.

thats it - and for me, having to use the kettle everytime i want to wash up, or not being able to wash my hands in warm water is a serious inconvenience (and i don't care whether cold water is as effective, its not what i want or what i pay for).

this girl - or any other tenant - pays for a service, if the landlord has a problem with providing that service, or finds it inconvenient, or too expensive, or can't get the part that's the landlords problem, not the tenants - and the tenant will walk away.

maybe the lock broke because it was fixed into a cheap door, or the screws had been wobbly for ages, or it was just cheap and had a certain life expectancy - but whatever, the attitude of the LL in not repairing, or asking her to get it repaired, didn't bode well when something important went wrong.

The_Morrigan

OS119 wrote: »

i can't be arsed to fix the lock

When did the landlord say that?
I recall the OP saying he was away and thats why the repair would be done when he got back.

Graces7

OS119 wrote: »

and there's the fiundamental difference - this girl doesn't own the property, she pays for a service (an apartment with central heating and hot running water) how that service is supplied, or how much it costs the service provider isn't her problem - the tenants only problem is 'am i getting what i paid for, and are any problems getting fixed without causing me serious inconvenience?'.

thats it - and for me, having to use the kettle everytime i want to wash up, or not being able to wash my hands in warm water is a serious inconvenience (and i don't care whether cold water is as effective, its not what i want or what i pay for).

this girl - or any other tenant - pays for a service, if the landlord has a problem with providing that service, or finds it inconvenient, or too expensive, or can't get the part that's the landlords problem, not the tenants - and the tenant will walk away.

maybe the lock broke because it was fixed into a cheap door, or the screws had been wobbly for ages, or it was just cheap and had a certain life expectancy - but whatever, the attitude of the LL in not repairing, or asking her to get it repaired, didn't bode well when something important went wrong.

You are saying that the hot water is in with the rent and not on a ESB bill? Where does it say that please?

Many of us cannot afford to have hot water on tap. In our new house, the only way to have that is to light the solid fuel stove; we were offered an immersion heater installed but said no because of the ESB costs.

It is no hardship to boil a kettle to wash up. or if dishes are not greasy, to use cold water.

We have the luxury here of an electric shower. It is enough.

I am not defending the LL here; just that expectations seem so high.

OP ; one question if i may. Would YOU accept what you expect your tenants to accept, please? It is the "them" and "us" attitide that riles.

jeepers101

syklops wrote: »

Correct.

Incorrect

syklops

event wrote: »

if you got two flat wheels on a car, 2 weeks apart, would you take it in for a service?

No but if I was renting the car I would call the rental people and tell them about it.

So, two bulbs, likely the same type, on the same switch, with the same estimated lifespan, blow within a few weeks of each other, and an electrician should be called to survey the house?

I didn't say they should survey the house, I just don't think its completely unreasonable to inform the landlord about it.

ztoical

OS119 wrote: »

thats it - and for me, having to use the kettle everytime i want to wash up, or not being able to wash my hands in warm water is a serious inconvenience (and i don't care whether cold water is as effective, its not what i want or what i pay for).

this girl - or any other tenant - pays for a service, if the landlord has a problem with providing that service, or finds it inconvenient, or too expensive, or can't get the part that's the landlords problem, not the tenants - and the tenant will walk away.

They had to order a part, they weren't refusing to fix somthing or saying it was inconvenient. They had got a plumber in, the plumber said he needed this part to fix the issue and it would take a max of 10 days to get said part. She was not left without any source of hot water so I ask you what the hell do you expect the LL to do? Put her up in a hotel? Stuff breaks and it can take time to fix.

claire h

Graces7 wrote: »

You are saying that the hot water is in with the rent and not on a ESB bill? Where does it say that please?

Many of us cannot afford to have hot water on tap. In our new house, the only way to have that is to light the solid fuel stove; we were offered an immersion heater installed but said no because of the ESB costs.

It is no hardship to boil a kettle to wash up. or if dishes are not greasy, to use cold water.

We have the luxury here of an electric shower. It is enough.

I am not defending the LL here; just that expectations seem so high.

OP ; one question if i may. Would YOU accept what you expect your tenants to accept, please? It is the "them" and "us" attitide that riles.

When rent is agreed upon for a property in a certain condition, with whatever 'luxuries' go along with that, the tenant is entitled to those 'high' expectations.

ash23

I was left without heating for a couple of weeks due to a leak. It meant I had to boil a kettle to wash up, I had to use the electric shower and the electric heaters in the house. I had to use the immersion and I had to buy solid fuel to light the fire.

I spent far more on ESB and fuel in those 10 days than I would have used in oil. It p1ssed me right off. Plus it was inconvenient.

The one perk of renting is that I don't have to deal with broken appliances etc. It is why I pay rent and it is covered by the rent I pay. Long term, paying rent doesn't benefit me. Its not an investment. I pay rent in order to have a place to live. No maintenance, no repairs etc.


I've been in my house for over 2 years and I am a dream tenant. Place is looked after and rent is paid. It is my home.
But I am moving out.
There was a run of things that went wrong a year into living there. the heating, then the dryer broke and then the dishwasher. There is a leak from a water pipe under the garden.

The dryer and heating were fixed, as was the dishwasher. Then the dishwasher broke again. I've been hearing for 2 months that it's "going to be fixed". The leak in the garden has been there for a year. The garden is like a swamp. I can't use it. But I'm paying to use it.

The landlord doesn't seem to think its a pressing matter. Neither is the dishwasher. But the fact is that I PAY for the use of the garden and the dishwasher and I am not getting what I pay for. Easy for him to say its a minor inconvenience but he doesn't have to live here.


Anyway, the problems the tenant is having are all legit.
She pays rent, the landlord fixes things.


If he wants "good" tenants then he needs to provide them with a decent place that they will WANT to live in.
It's a renters market at the mo and a tenant can easily think "screw this" and move out.

When you have someone who pays the rent on time, cares about how the property is maintained etc, then you as a landlord should try to keep them happy. Acting disinterested in their issues isn't on imo. She's paying you to provide her with a service.

Also, the reason you're having problems with the lovely apartment and not the student hovels should speak for itself.

If you want tenants who respect a place and look after it, then yes, they will be more fussy about how things are and about things that are broken. If you don't want to be bothered by tenants then let it to people who won't call you because they don't want you calling over and seeing the state they have the place in!

The_Morrigan

Just out of interest - how many people here got caught out during the "big freeze"? Renters and Homeowners alike were caught without heat, water, electricity etc I know I couldn't use my heating system cos the water wasn't getting into the apts.
Did all the renters threaten to leave and not pay rent then?

ash23

The_Morrigan wrote: »

Just out of interest - how many people here got caught out during the "big freeze"? Renters and Homeowners alike were caught without heat, water, electricity etc I know I couldn't use my heating system cos the water wasn't getting into the apts.
Did all the renters threaten to leave and not pay rent then?

I wasn't left without water/heat during that. But if I had been I'd have been calling the landlord daily to see what the situation was with getting it fixed. If I caught a whiff of him not being interested in the fact that I was without heat in the depths of winter, I'd not have been impressed and would be giving serious consideration to moving once the lease was up.

I would expect that the landlord should be calling the tenant to update them on the situation rather than the tenant having to chase the landlord though.

event

syklops wrote: »

No but if I was renting the car I would call the rental people and tell them about it.

are ye serious?

ye'd be laughed out the gate.

punctures can happen at any time, same way bulbs can go. asking for the house to be checked is laughable tbh.

OS119

The_Morrigan wrote: »

Just out of interest - how many people here got caught out during the "big freeze"? Renters and Homeowners alike were caught without heat, water, electricity etc I know I couldn't use my heating system cos the water wasn't getting into the apts.
Did all the renters threaten to leave and not pay rent then?

i didn't get caught out, neither did my tenants - however i would accept absolutely that if either of my tenants had no central heating when night time temps dropped past -15c then they would have been well within their moral rights to say 'we're paying for a service, you aren't providing it, contract over.' and that they'd be away.

i wouldn't stay in such a property - particularly where i'm paying someone else for a property with central heating - so, oddly enough, i wouldn't expect them to. if i choose to install a boiler thats replacement parts take 10 days to arrive then i'm an idiot trying to run a business on the cheap and getting all offended when the wheels come off because of my penny-pinching.

the client pays a landlord for a service, if he fails to provide that service - for whatever reason - then the client will walk away and find a landlord who will.

syklops

event wrote: »

are ye serious?

ye'd be laughed out the gate.

punctures can happen at any time, same way bulbs can go. asking for the house to be checked is laughable tbh.

Please let me know if you run a business so I can avoid your services.

Osgoodisgood

Graces7 wrote: »

It is the "them" and "us" attitide that riles.

:eek:..............it certainly does

Graces7

ash23 wrote: »

I was left without heating for a couple of weeks due to a leak. It meant I had to boil a kettle to wash up, I had to use the electric shower and the electric heaters in the house. I had to use the immersion and I had to buy solid fuel to light the fire.

I spent far more on ESB and fuel in those 10 days than I would have used in oil. It p1ssed me right off. Plus it was inconvenient.

The one perk of renting is that I don't have to deal with broken appliances etc. It is why I pay rent and it is covered by the rent I pay. Long term, paying rent doesn't benefit me. Its not an investment. I pay rent in order to have a place to live. No maintenance, no repairs etc.


I've been in my house for over 2 years and I am a dream tenant. Place is looked after and rent is paid. It is my home.
But I am moving out.
There was a run of things that went wrong a year into living there. the heating, then the dryer broke and then the dishwasher. There is a leak from a water pipe under the garden.

The dryer and heating were fixed, as was the dishwasher. Then the dishwasher broke again. I've been hearing for 2 months that it's "going to be fixed". The leak in the garden has been there for a year. The garden is like a swamp. I can't use it. But I'm paying to use it.

The landlord doesn't seem to think its a pressing matter. Neither is the dishwasher. But the fact is that I PAY for the use of the garden and the dishwasher and I am not getting what I pay for. Easy for him to say its a minor inconvenience but he doesn't have to live here.


Anyway, the problems the tenant is having are all legit.
She pays rent, the landlord fixes things.


If he wants "good" tenants then he needs to provide them with a decent place that they will WANT to live in.
It's a renters market at the mo and a tenant can easily think "screw this" and move out.

When you have someone who pays the rent on time, cares about how the property is maintained etc, then you as a landlord should try to keep them happy. Acting disinterested in their issues isn't on imo. She's paying you to provide her with a service.

Also, the reason you're having problems with the lovely apartment and not the student hovels should speak for itself.

If you want tenants who respect a place and look after it, then yes, they will be more fussy about how things are and about things that are broken. If you don't want to be bothered by tenants then let it to people who won't call you because they don't want you calling over and seeing the state they have the place in!

Great post; thank you. Hope you find a good place soon.

Graces7

The_Morrigan wrote: »

Just out of interest - how many people here got caught out during the "big freeze"? Renters and Homeowners alike were caught without heat, water, electricity etc I know I couldn't use my heating system cos the water wasn't getting into the apts.
Did all the renters threaten to leave and not pay rent then?

We were without water etc for almost a month; melted snow much of the time.

It was a very.. basic house we took when the previous one flooded. No central heating. An immersion heater; night storage heaters we never used because of the cost.

The LL arrived to tell me to put the storage heaters on; I said no as we could not afford to run them. He brought in a superser.

We needed coal and gas desperately; he refused to help and so did others; so fiinally we drove icily down ourselves to fetch supplies and had to be pushed the last mile.

This was before local services got atop of the situation.

Things eased then; also someone we met on boards fetched fuel in.

This was really an emergency situation.

iguana

ash23 wrote: »

I spent far more on ESB and fuel in those 10 days than I would have used in oil. It p1ssed me right off. Plus it was inconvenient.

Were those 10 days during August? If you were left without heating in the winter and had to pay extra on your ESB to heat the place your LL should have paid the extra on the ESB. Electric showers and kettles are more efficient than oil boilers. But electric heaters, even the best ones, gobble up electricity at a shocking rate. In August you'd save money by not having access to the central heating, in the winter 10 days should get you at least a €100 discount off your rent as your ESB bill will be crazy.

ztoical

ash23 wrote: »

When you have someone who pays the rent on time, cares about how the property is maintained etc, then you as a landlord should try to keep them happy. Acting disinterested in their issues isn't on imo. She's paying you to provide her with a service.

How has the LL acted disinterested? They have answered all the tenants calls and they booked and paid for people to deal with any issues that came up...I'm still waiting for people to tell me what more they expect the LL to do. Someone made the point about them "putting in a boiler that they had order out of country for parts for" first off the boiler may have been in the apartment when the LL bought and second there is alot of stuff in this country you have to send away overseas for, welcome to the joys of living on an island. The LL was annoyed with someone ringing one night to say the central heating was broken and then ringing the next night to say it wasn't then ringing the next night to say it was so on and so on coupled with the fact she only started calling every night when the other tenant went away on holidays it sounds more like someone who doesn't know how to turn the central heating on rather then it being broken.

ash23

iguana wrote: »

Were those 10 days during August? If you were left without heating in the winter and had to pay extra on your ESB to heat the place your LL should have paid the extra on the ESB. Electric showers and kettles are more efficient than oil boilers. But electric heaters, even the best ones, gobble up electricity at a shocking rate. In August you'd save money by not having access to the central heating, in the winter 10 days should get you at least a €100 discount off your rent as your ESB bill will be crazy.

It was May/June. Doesn't matter. The point still stands. My heating was broken and I was inconvenienced. It might be cheaper to buy solid fuel and light a fire every evening but it's more convenient to flick the switch on the heating. But my preference would be to stick the heating on. It might be cheaper to boil the kettle and do the washing up but I'd prefer to have hot water on tap.
My house was advertised with OFCH. It's a perk. I am paying for that perk and I want it.
Would you be ok if you bought a car with AC and the AC didn't work and when you complained you were told it would save you money the longer it took to fix? This girl moved into this apartment with the promis of central heating. I specifically avoid places with storage heaters. I hate the damn things. Perhaps she is the same.

ash23

ztoical wrote: »

How has the LL acted disinterested? They have answered all the tenants calls and they booked and paid for people to deal with any issues that came up...I'm still waiting for people to tell me what more they expect the LL to do. Someone made the point about them "putting in a boiler that they had order out of country for parts for" first off the boiler may have been in the apartment when the LL bought and second there is alot of stuff in this country you have to send away overseas for, welcome to the joys of living on an island. The LL was annoyed with someone ringing one night to say the central heating was broken and then ringing the next night to say it wasn't then ringing the next night to say it was so on and so on coupled with the fact she only started calling every night when the other tenant went away on holidays it sounds more like someone who doesn't know how to turn the central heating on rather then it being broken.

he doesn't seem to think leaving her 10 days with no heating is an issue. He complains about her ringing him in the evenings about the fact that she has no heating. He doesn't seem to have sought a second plumber or seen if someone has a part.
He doesn't think there's anything wrong with leaving her without a lock on the bathroom door when she's clearly uncomfortable. it's a house share. Anyone could walk in. She can't use her own shower because the heating is broken.....

As for the trip switch, it's a learning curve. I've done some fairly stoopid things in new places. I called the landlord cos the water pressure was crap. He called out, pointed out the water pump in the hot press and showed me the big switch beside it which was off.

Or the plumber I rang because the central heating wouldn't turn off in my house. We went through a load of oil. He very nicely pointed out the frost stat and explained what it was for and that it was set to 5 degrees instead of minus 1.

Silly yes, but not necessarily an indication of being unreasonable. More a sign of innocence. Back when I had some! :rolleyes:

ztoical

ash23 wrote: »

he doesn't seem to think leaving her 10 days with no heating is an issue. He complains about her ringing him in the evenings about the fact that she has no heating. He doesn't seem to have sought a second plumber or seen if someone has a part.

He gave her an electric heater, there is a working electric shower in the apartment, the part is on order....I am assuming they hired a professional plumber so why should they not trust the plumbers word with regard the part? The plumber said it would be a max of 10 days, I've had friends go months waiting for parts to come in who couldn't get their landlord to answer the phone day or night so on the "evil landlord" scale that everyone seems to have the OP is hardly at the top. The LL answered her call about the boiler, he got a plumber, he has ordered the part, yes you are paying for the LL to look after the place but there is a limit of how much time and money you should expect...having them hire several different plumbers cus your not happy with the professional assessment of the first one is not practical, as many like to point out it is a business and most business aim to keep the costs of running the business balanced with the money coming in from said business.

iguana

ash23 wrote: »

It was May/June. Doesn't matter. The point still stands. My heating was broken and I was inconvenienced. It might be cheaper to buy solid fuel and light a fire every evening but it's more convenient to flick the switch on the heating. But my preference would be to stick the heating on. It might be cheaper to boil the kettle and do the washing up but I'd prefer to have hot water on tap.
My house was advertised with OFCH. It's a perk. I am paying for that perk and I want it.
Would you be ok if you bought a car with AC and the AC didn't work and when you complained you were told it would save you money the longer it took to fix? This girl moved into this apartment with the promis of central heating. I specifically avoid places with storage heaters. I hate the damn things. Perhaps she is the same.

No but if it took a few days to fix the heating (for a genuine reason like needing a particular part) during the summer it wouldn't bother me even slightly. It's the summer the heating isn't necessary then as heating is supposed to keep you warm when it's cold out, you don't need it when it's warm. When I moved into this house the heating didn't work for the first few weeks but it was April so it wasn't like I needed it so it didn't matter. If it had been November that would have been a different matter but complaining about a few days without heating in the middle of the summer is extremely unreasonable.

ash23

ztoical wrote: »

He gave her an electric heater, there is a working electric shower in the apartment, the part is on order....I am assuming they hired a professional plumber so why should they not trust the plumbers word with regard the part? The plumber said it would be a max of 10 days, I've had friends go months waiting for parts to come in who couldn't get their landlord to answer the phone day or night so on the "evil landlord" scale that everyone seems to have the OP is hardly at the top. The LL answered her call about the boiler, he got a plumber, he has ordered the part, yes you are paying for the LL to look after the place but there is a limit of how much time and money you should expect...having them hire several different plumbers cus your not happy with the professional assessment of the first one is not practical, as many like to point out it is a business and most business aim to keep the costs of running the business balanced with the money coming in from said business.

He asked is it reasonable that she is not happy about being left 10 days without heating. Yeah, she is.
And while I appreciate that these things take time, he is making her wait 2 weeks to replace the lock. She won't need the lock once the heating is fixed so the delay isn't really fair. She only needs to use that shower because of the heating problem.
So either he speeds up the heating problem or he pops over some evening and puts a lock on the SHARED bathroom door that she is being forced to use.

She probably would have put up with the delay getting the heating fixed but for the fact of the missing lock and her discomfort with same followed by his "meh" attitude.
"araagh, you'll be grand, sure so what if someone walks in while you're having a shower, what harm".

iguana wrote:

No but if it took a few days to fix the heating (for a genuine reason like needing a particular part) during the summer it wouldn't bother me even slightly. It's the summer the heating isn't necessary then as heating is supposed to keep you warm when it's cold out, you don't need it when it's warm. When I moved into this house the heating didn't work for the first few weeks but it was April so it wasn't like I needed it so it didn't matter. If it had been November that would have been a different matter but complaining about a few days without heating in the middle of the summer is extremely unreasonable.

Again, the real issue appeared to arise with regard to his cavalier attitude about the lock. The straw that broke the camels back if you will.

Also just noticed in the OP that the bulb "burst". This happened to me in an apartment once. The bulb literally exploded when I turned it on, leaving the metal bayonett in the socket. Now if this is the same here, I totally understand the girl wanting him to deal with it. I did the same. It took a pliers to get the metal bit out. No way in hell was I going near a light socket with a pliers!