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Is This Unreasonable?
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Ash - How is it up to the landlord to know about a broken lock if someone living in the apartment didn't know?
Eh, because she rang him and told him......
I've never said the lock shouldn't have broken. I said he shouldn't have fobbed her off with a non-committal "2 weeks" in a shared apartment.And again, the other tenant was away at the time, she was on her own in the apartment - had she feared "someone" would walk in on her could she not have used logic and reason and locked/bolted the front door?
The other tenant would love that if he needed to come in. You can't really go around bolting doors in a shared apartment.
You never know who is going to come by.She was alone in the apartment and had another shower at her disposal - she then claimed the shower was not suitable because of a broken lock.
She left the apartment because of the problems - heating was broken and a lock was broken.
This is unreasonable behaviour.
Maybe the other tenant and her didn't get on or she was wary of him. She is entitled to request that a broken lock on a shared bathroom is fixed. She was using her en-suite until the heating broke, therefore the lock wasn't an issue for her until the heating broke. Knock on affect.0 -
Eh, because she rang him and told him......
I've never said the lock shouldn't have broken. I said he shouldn't have fobbed her off with a non-committal "2 weeks" in a shared apartment.
The other tenant would love that if he needed to come in. You can't really go around bolting doors in a shared apartment.
You never know who is going to come by.
Maybe the other tenant and her didn't get on or she was wary of him. She is entitled to request that a broken lock on a shared bathroom is fixed. She was using her en-suite until the heating broke, therefore the lock wasn't an issue for her until the heating broke. Knock on affect.
And this is where it becomes unacceptable to call a landlord and inform him of a MINOR problem, link it to an existing problem that is in the process of being resolved - as to you other assumptions - who cares how she gets on woth her flatmate - that has nothing to do with the issue.
And as for your take that a single female in an apartment alone, while her flatmate is away on holiday (a fact that you simply refuse to absorb, while throwing in irrelevant assumptions) should not go around bolting doors - really?0 -
And this is where it becomes unacceptable to call a landlord and inform him of a MINOR problem, link it to an existing problem that is in the process of being resolved - as to you other assumptions - who cares how she gets on woth her flatmate - that has nothing to do with the issue.
And as for your take that a single female in an apartment alone, while her flatmate is away on holiday (a fact that you simply refuse to absorb, while throwing in irrelevant assumptions) should not go around bolting doors - really?
What? You're going around in circles.
I'm only linking it to an "existing" problem because people were saying she should have mentioned the broken lock before that etc.
My point is how would she have noticed it when she didn't use the bathroom. She noticed it because she had to use the bathroom. She asked for it to be fixed. He said in 2 weeks.
We don't know how long the housemate was on holidays. We don't know where he was. We don't know when he was due to return. We don't know if he had friends who called in. We don't know anything other than the fact that it is a shared bathroom, she had to use it, she asked for the lock to be fixed and was told 2 weeks and was not happy about it.
Have you ever lived in a house share? I have.
People come and go. their friends stay when they are away. Their parents pop in and out.
It would be generally accepted that a bolt should not be put on a door. The door can be locked but someone with a key should be able to get inside. The door that needs to be bolted is the BATHROOM door, not the front door.0 -
....And as for your take that a single female in an apartment alone, while her flatmate is away on holiday (a fact that you simply refuse to absorb, while throwing in irrelevant assumptions) should not go around bolting doors - really?
i think Ash23's point, and i'd support her view, is that the LL gave the tenant a vibe which suggested that he wasn't really interested.
personally, is the lock a great issue when the other tenant isn't there? no, however, it would be a big issue when the other tenant returns, given that it's quite likely they'd have to share that bathroom because the boiler hasn't been fixed. seeing as the LL has no control over when the other tenant returns, and seeing as her has what i'd describe as a 'customer service issue' with regard to the repair of the central heating, i'd have said that the LL needs to keep his customer happy, and fixing the lock, or arrainging for it to be fixed, is a small thing that tells the tenant that yes, the LL is interested in the flats problems, and it says that the LL is more likely to be telling the truth about the boiler part taking 10days or so.
'coz to me, a man who owns 3 boilers, if someone told me it would take 10 days to source a part, i'd probably not believe them. it may well be true, but it doesn't sound true to the tenant, and if that is then compounded by dodgy electrics (to most tenants, if they don't work when you press the switch, they're dodgy), and a broken lock - neither of which the landlord sounds interested in - then i'd form the view that i'd be better off cutting my losses and moving on to a place where the features i pay for actually work.
ETA: i understand why the LL thought 'its fecking august you daft bint, we live on a island, of course its going take two weeks to sort out the boiler', 'its the cheffing trip switch, all you have to do is flick it and i'd work fine', and 'why worry about the lock you idiot, there's no one else there!' and got all exasperated with what he percieved as an idle fool looking for problems and having no reall understanding the solutions, but he should look at his business from his customers point of view - is he delivering, and if not does it look like he's going to deliver?0 -
i think Ash23's point, and i'd support her view, is that the LL gave the tenant a vibe which suggested that he wasn't really interested.
personally, is the lock a great issue when the other tenant isn't there? no, however, it would be a big issue when the other tenant returns, given that it's quite likely they'd have to share that bathroom because the boiler hasn't been fixed. seeing as the LL has no control over when the other tenant returns, and seeing as her has what i'd describe as a 'customer service issue' with regard to the repair of the central heating, i'd have said that the LL needs to keep his customer happy, and fixing the lock, or arrainging for it to be fixed, is a small thing that tells the tenant that yes, the LL is interested in the flats problems, and it says that the LL is more likely to be telling the truth about the boiler part taking 10days or so.
'coz to me, a man who owns 3 boilers, if someone told me it would take 10 days to source a part, i'd probably not believe them. it may well be true, but it doesn't sound true to the tenant, and if that is then compounded by dodgy electrics (to most tenants, if they don't work when you press the switch, they're dodgy), and a broken lock - neither of which the landlord sounds interested in - then i'd form the view that i'd be better off cutting my losses and moving on to a place where the features i pay for actually work.
I'd agree with most of this and as I said before I am sure the tenants side of the story would be very different.0 -
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What? You're going around in circles.
I'm only linking it to an "existing" problem because people were saying she should have mentioned the broken lock before that etc.
My point is how would she have noticed it when she didn't use the bathroom. She noticed it because she had to use the bathroom. She asked for it to be fixed. He said in 2 weeks.
We don't know how long the housemate was on holidays. We don't know where he was. We don't know when he was due to return. We don't know if he had friends who called in. We don't know anything other than the fact that it is a shared bathroom, she had to use it, she asked for the lock to be fixed and was told 2 weeks and was not happy about it.
Have you ever lived in a house share? I have.
People come and go. their friends stay when they are away. Their parents pop in and out.
It would be generally accepted that a bolt should not be put on a door. The door can be locked but someone with a key should be able to get inside. The door that needs to be bolted is the BATHROOM door, not the front door.
Again with the assumptions?
But to answer:
It is not generally accepted by LL's that a tenant would give a key to a property to someone without his knowledge.
It is not generally accepted by tenants in shared accommadation that strangers would have access to the property while their flatmate was away.
Really, I am bowing out of this because you view all your assumptions as reasonable reasons why this tenant could not have a shower.
Yet you view as unreasonable the fact that the landlord was away on holiday and that is why the lock could not be fixed for 2 weeks.
Cheerio.0 -
Really, I am bowing out of this because you view all your assumptions as reasonable reasons why this tenant could not have a shower.
Yet you view as unreasonable the fact that the landlord was away on holiday and that is why the lock could not be fixed for 2 weeks.
Cheerio.
The landlord deliberately delayed looking at the lock and said so in different contradictory forms, including
It was following this series of events, during which time she was phoning me every second night to complain of the central heating working, then not working, etc that she complained about the lock on the bathroom door. At this point I began to feel she was out of control and acting slightly irrationally. I adopted a tactic of wait and see and delay0 -
Again with the assumptions?
Look up the word assumption. There are no assumptions made in the bit you posted. I am saying we don't know any of those things. I'm not making assumptions. I'm saying that "the other tenant is on holidays" isn't really good enough because we have no idea when he is due back or if others use the apartment in his absence. No assumptions there. But the tenant had reason to want a lock on the door and seeing as she is the one residing there, I'm going to believe there is a need.But to answer:
It is not generally accepted by LL's that a tenant would give a key to a property to someone without his knowledge.
It is not generally accepted by tenants in shared accommadation that strangers would have access to the property while their flatmate was away.
It happens though. Again the tenant lives there and felt the need for the lock for whatever reason. We can speculate all day but the fact is she was uncomfortable showering in a shared bathroom with a broken lock and the LL blew her off when she requested it to be fixed.
No, again I'm saying it's not unreasonable to ask for a broken lock in a shared bathroom to be replaced, not about whether she can have a shower. And I do think a 2 week wait is unreasonable. If the LL can't fix it themselves in a reasonable timeframe they should get someone else to look at it, either a friend, family member or a tradesperson.Really, I am bowing out of this because you view all your assumptions as reasonable reasons why this tenant could not have a shower.
Yet you view as unreasonable the fact that the landlord was away on holiday and that is why the lock could not be fixed for 2 weeks.
Cheerio.0 -
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Maybe the other tenant and her didn't get on or she was wary of him.
I think we can safely assume this was not the case! They liked each other but the other tenant said she had several times asked him to go to the cinema or for drinks with her and he had felt awkward and refused. Its not really my business to say why he felt awkward, he just felt it inappropriate as she was his flatmate. They have met up since she moved out but have no plans to meet again. And thats all I know.
She did know exactly how long he was away on holiday for. His mother, father, brothers, sisters and friends did not of course have a key to the apartment or pop round without notice (how odd!). The main door to the apartment automatically locked when closed, and had two keys. Its in a very quiet, upmarket area and this is an apartment with only two people in it, not a massive houseshare with many people coming and going.
The poster who said I was giving off a disinterested vibe as landlord was partially correct, but the vibe I was seeking to give off was that I was concerned that she was breaking things in my property and constantly requesting tradesmen, contradicting herself over reported faults and unable to remember what she had said on the previous occasion, and that I wanted her to behave like a responsible and sensible adult. It is true to say however that I do not have time for silly little girls who cannot cope with living alone and need constant attention. From the other tenant I later found out that she had lied to me that she was in full time employment when in fact she was a student living off maintenance payments from her ex-husband and supported by her parents (mea culpa for letting her away with not producing the constantly delayed reference) and that she was already at the age of 25 divorced (not my business but she did lie to me and make a point of saying she was single and had never had a serious boyfriend which makes me think she lied about other things as well or at least exaggerated them, and had been for several years - in fact she said the same to the other tenant).
I actually think my instincts were correct but she had me taken in from the beginning that she would be a serious, sensible tenant. Not a bad person, but a slightly irresponsible one who needs constant attention.
To the posters who suggested I should get a plumber more quickly or use a friend or family member - what a recipe for utter disaster! Its a gas central heating boiler we are talking about, not a coal fire! I use this firm for my annual gas check and they generally do not overcharge or do unncessary work, and they fix problems. I searched on the internet for the part myself but what they said was 100% correct. As I have said before, like a lot of boilers, it is Italian and if there are no parts to be had there is simply no way of fixing it before the part arrives. Furthermore, 10 days is not an excessive time to wait, particularly in August when there is alternative shower provision available (she did not complain about the cold once). The fact that she only waited 4 days after reporting the problem to move out indicates she had somewhere planned to move to all along and was trying to get out of the lease by exaggerating problems. Personally I think she wanted a bigger houseshare and to be surrounded by more people who could give her more attention.0 -
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i'd have said that the LL needs to keep his customer happy, and fixing the lock, or arrainging for it to be fixed, is a small thing that tells the tenant that yes, the LL is interested in the flats problems, and it says that the LL is more likely to be telling the truth about the boiler part taking 10days or so.
ETA: i understand why the LL thought 'its fecking august you daft bint, we live on a island, of course its going take two weeks to sort out the boiler', 'its the cheffing trip switch, all you have to do is flick it and i'd work fine', and 'why worry about the lock you idiot, there's no one else there!' and got all exasperated with what he percieved as an idle fool looking for problems and having no reall understanding the solutions, but he should look at his business from his customers point of view - is he delivering, and if not does it look like he's going to deliver?
I don't genuinely believe she could have thought this unless she was a very impatient person with an unrealistic ideal of customer service - for the simple reason that I had just paid for a plumber to go out to her when there had turned out to be nothing wrong with the central heating previously. It is strange that a part then broke soon afterwards. Lets not forget that ONE bulb only blew and was fixed within two days by the plumber. She continued to make an issue of this as being an electrical problem AFTER it had been fixed. I can't do anything for a person like that. Bulbs do go. I cannot constantly run around after someone who is so demanding.
From a business point of view, she was not worth it. The incidence of things breaking and constant phone calls was simply not worth the money she was paying in rent. I've had a couple of tenants like this and they have a lot in common. OTOH I've had an awful lot of tenants who are not like this and are reasonable, realistic and polite. The majority of tenants I've had by far fall into the latter category. I am now seeking to avoid this type of tenant in the future, easily done.0 -
Have you ever lived in a house share? I have.
People come and go. their friends stay when they are away. Their parents pop in and out.
I've lived in numerous house shares for well over ten years and have never once had a tenant's friends or family members stay or even pop in or out when that tenant was away.
Of course, sometimes tenants have had people call around to see if they were in, but their friends have never had a key to come and go as they please.
That's wholly unacceptable, inconsiderate, irresponsible, and a complete and utter recipe for disaster.
As for friends, parents, relatives calling over when the tenant is actually there, that's fine.0 -
I've lived in numerous house shares for well over ten years and have never once had a tenant's friends or family members stay or even pop in or out when that tenant was away.
Of course, sometimes tenants have had people call around to see if they were in, but their friends have never had a key to come and go as they please.
That's wholly unacceptable, inconsiderate, irresponsible, and a complete and utter recipe for disaster.
As for friends, parents, relatives calling over when the tenant is actually there, that's fine.
I've shared with people who've had people drop off stuff or whose sister/brother may have spent a night in their room while they weren't there having been lent a key by the other tenant.
I've had peoples parent call in to collect stuff and I've had the tenant change their mind on the spur of the moment about going away/staying away and arriving back unexpectedly.
It's not that off the wall.
I'd never feel 100% sure I was alone or going to be alone in a house share.I'd never feel comfortable enough to wander from bathroom to bedroom naked for example. There is always a chance that someone will arrive in.
Then again I haven't house shared since my student days so maybe it's different in other house shares. Having said that a friend of mine house shares and it's common in her apartment and she's a grown up.
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I've shared with people who've had people drop off stuff or whose sister/brother may have spent a night in their room while they weren't there having been lent a key by the other tenant.
I've had peoples parent call in to collect stuff and I've had the tenant change their mind on the spur of the moment about going away/staying away and arriving back unexpectedly.
Honestly that sounds very much like ever student house share which this case isn't. Been renting for near 14 years and I've only had one flatmate let a friend crash while he wasn't there and I wasn't impressed at all. I would be very annoyed if flatmates lent keys to friends/family/etc...enough threads on here of people sharing houses not happy with a flatmates GF/BF staying too many nights a week so I expect alot of people wouldn't be impressed with random people coming and going. It's a flat not a house, it's only got two people sharing, there's no reason for the flatmates family or friends to be calling around when he is not there. They shouldn't be making copies of keys and/or loaning them to people anyway so it's not the LL fault if the flatmate had. Alot of houses I've shared haven't had any internal locks including the flat I share at the moment. I would view the broken lock in this case as a minor issue and wouldn't be rushing out to fix it straight away.0 -
Look up the word assumption. There are no assumptions made in the bit you posted. I am saying we don't know any of those things. I'm not making assumptions. I'm saying that "the other tenant is on holidays" isn't really good enough because we have no idea when he is due back or if others use the apartment in his absence. No assumptions there. But the tenant had reason to want a lock on the door and seeing as she is the one residing there, I'm going to believe there is a need.
It happens though. Again the tenant lives there and felt the need for the lock for whatever reason. We can speculate all day but the fact is she was uncomfortable showering in a shared bathroom with a broken lock and the LL blew her off when she requested it to be fixed.
No, again I'm saying it's not unreasonable to ask for a broken lock in a shared bathroom to be replaced, not about whether she can have a shower. And I do think a 2 week wait is unreasonable. If the LL can't fix it themselves in a reasonable timeframe they should get someone else to look at it, either a friend, family member or a tradesperson.
Hmmm, I will have to respond to this - I am very well aware of what the word assumption means ash - but fyi - premise: a statement that is assumed to be true and from which a conclusion can be drawn; Like this
"People come and go. their friends stay when they are away. Their parents pop in and out."
So she shouldn't lock the front door while having a shower.
Your previous assumptions were :
"She probably would have put up with the delay getting the heating fixed but for the fact of the missing lock and her discomfort with same followed by his "meh" attitude."
"araagh, you'll be grand, sure so what if someone walks in while you're having a shower, what harm"."
"I would think she was probably just thinking that when things break in that place the landlord isn't bothered hurrying to fix them."
"The other tenant would love that if he needed to come in. You can't really go around bolting doors in a shared apartment.
You never know who is going to come by."
"Maybe the other tenant and her didn't get on or she was wary of him."
All assumptions to justify why this tenant felt she couldn't use a bathroom in an empty house.
While you can justify the tenants actions with your assumptions anyone who disagrees with you is greeted with :
"We don't know how long the housemate was on holidays. We don't know where he was. We don't know when he was due to return. We don't know if he had friends who called in. We don't know anything other than the fact that it is a shared bathroom, she had to use it, she asked for the lock to be fixed and was told 2 weeks and was not happy about it".
But I agree with you that it probably was the straw that broke the camels back - but instead of using logic and reason to rectify the situation she threw a strop and walked. Really, in her situation what would you have done? I think you may have organised a friend to get the lock fixed and argued the point with the landlord on her return.
I am a tenant by the way, I have kids and pets and if a lock broke in one of my bathroom doors then I certainly wouldn't call the LL, I'd pop down to the local hardware shop and buy one for a fiver. I wouldn't demand that my LL dropped everything and I certainly wouldn't expect him to replace a lock that we used.
A landlord is like a credit limit - there when you need it - but not a target to reach just because you pay for it.0 -
Hmmm, I will have to respond to this - I am very well aware of what the word assumption means ash - but fyi - premise: a statement that is assumed to be true and from which a conclusion can be drawn; Like this
"People come and go. their friends stay when they are away. Their parents pop in and out."
So she shouldn't lock the front door while having a shower.
Your previous assumptions were :
"She probably would have put up with the delay getting the heating fixed but for the fact of the missing lock and her discomfort with same followed by his "meh" attitude."
"araagh, you'll be grand, sure so what if someone walks in while you're having a shower, what harm"."
"I would think she was probably just thinking that when things break in that place the landlord isn't bothered hurrying to fix them."
"The other tenant would love that if he needed to come in. You can't really go around bolting doors in a shared apartment.
You never know who is going to come by."
"Maybe the other tenant and her didn't get on or she was wary of him."
All assumptions to justify why this tenant felt she couldn't use a bathroom in an empty house.
While you can justify the tenants actions with your assumptions anyone who disagrees with you is greeted with :
"We don't know how long the housemate was on holidays. We don't know where he was. We don't know when he was due to return. We don't know if he had friends who called in. We don't know anything other than the fact that it is a shared bathroom, she had to use it, she asked for the lock to be fixed and was told 2 weeks and was not happy about it".
But I agree with you that it probably was the straw that broke the camels back - but instead of using logic and reason to rectify the situation she threw a strop and walked. Really, in her situation what would you have done? I think you may have organised a friend to get the lock fixed and argued the point with the landlord on her return.
I am a tenant by the way, I have kids and pets and if a lock broke in one of my bathroom doors then I certainly wouldn't call the LL, I'd pop down to the local hardware shop and buy one for a fiver. I wouldn't demand that my LL dropped everything and I certainly wouldn't expect him to replace a lock that we used.
A landlord is like a credit limit - there when you need it - but not a target to reach just because you pay for it.
We only have one side of the story. I am trying to see it from the tenants side and as she is not here to give it, I have to make contributions as to why she may have felt uncomfortable showering in an unlocked shared bathroom with the other tenant away.
The OP has made assumptions about her. That she is needy, unable to cope with life, that she invented the bathroom lock problem so she could leave, that she intended on moving in with her friend, that she was overly needy with her flatmate etc etc.
Others have made assumptions. That it was August therefore heating wasn't needed (we've no idea how cold the place was), that because the other tenant was away she should be ok showering in an unlocked bathroom.
I was giving anecdotes as to why this may not be the case.
I suggest if you like highlighting "assumptions" you also go through the posts supporting the LL point and pull out and quote the assumptions posted there rather than just focussing on my posts. Gives a more balanced view.0 -
We only have one side of the story. I am trying to see it from the tenants side and as she is not here to give it, I have to make contributions as to why she may have felt uncomfortable showering in an unlocked shared bathroom with the other tenant away.
The OP has made assumptions about her. That she is needy, unable to cope with life, that she invented the bathroom lock problem so she could leave, that she intended on moving in with her friend, that she was overly needy with her flatmate etc etc.
Others have made assumptions. That it was August therefore heating wasn't needed (we've no idea how cold the place was), that because the other tenant was away she should be ok showering in an unlocked bathroom.
I was giving anecdotes as to why this may not be the case.
I suggest if you like highlighting "assumptions" you also go through the posts supporting the LL point and pull out and quote the assumptions posted there rather than just focussing on my posts. Gives a more balanced view.
Well, technically everything is an assumption (or an allegation) until proven in a court of law. And since this is an internet site, you are right to be sceptical about what you read. However it is not a court of law and therefore certain social conventions apply instead for workability - most people therefore make up their minds what to believe on the grounds of plausibility, consistency, a good dose of basic common sense and writing style or "reading between the lines". However on internet sites (and in real life) you run into people who have a hidden agenda or who are biased in some way. And I do think you come across as slightly biased as you only see matters from the tenant's point of view and are quite imaginitive in doing so (you seem, and correct me if I am wrong, to believe that most rented properties are of a very poor standard and I'm not in that sort of market at all). You can see from what I have written that I have tried to see matters from the tenant's point of view as well as my own, but I cannot get past the salient facts that:
- The tenant breached her contract.
- I did not breach my contract - no court of law would hold that a central heating repair taking 10 days or an internal lock repair taking 2 weeks was a breach of a tenancy agreement (see under the Deposit Problem thread on here for what is actually quite normal and still probably not a fundamental breach of contract in a tenancy)
- She moved out extremely quickly and without asking me for a reference, the logical implication being that she already had somewhere else to live and that it was a place which did not require a reference
- It is within general knowledge that it is not so cold in August that you will suffer hardship with use only of an electric heater and a hot shower for 10 days
Can I also say, as a landlord, if I found out that my tenant's friends were popping round at all hours and staying when my tenants were out, I would be extremely annoyed. It would be a clear breach of the tenancy agreement and also extremely rude to the other tenant/s. Even in a student flat, you would expect some level of courtesy and forewarning and I still think it would be odd for groups of people to be given extra keys (my students can't generally hold onto their own keys, never mind make copies for others!). Ditto parents popping in unanounced all the time - again, how odd. When I was a student, I would have been mortified if my parents had done that - a visit is fine, to have your parents in and out all the time - no.
And incidentally, all that was required to "fix" the lock in the bathroom was hollowing out the slot it went into with a screwdriver, as it had become filled with some sort of debris/detritus.0 -
Well, technically everything is an assumption (or an allegation) until proven in a court of law. And since this is an internet site, you are right to be sceptical about what you read. However it is not a court of law and therefore certain social conventions apply instead for workability - most people therefore make up their minds what to believe on the grounds of plausibility, consistency, a good dose of basic common sense and writing style or "reading between the lines". However on internet sites (and in real life) you run into people who have a hidden agenda or who are biased in some way. And I do think you come across as slightly biased as you only see matters from the tenant's point of view and are quite imaginitive in doing so
I'm not biased as such, just playing devils advocate and answering replies that have been put to me based on some of my own experiences.(you seem, and correct me if I am wrong, to believe that most rented properties are of a very poor standard and I'm not in that sort of market at all).
Not at all. Some places are dives, some aren't. I've lives in an assortment of places, from student digs to family homes. I've never stated that the place you are discussing is of a poor standard as you've specified it isn't. I don't think I ever said it was of a poor standard.You can see from what I have written that I have tried to see matters from the tenant's point of view as well as my own
See, I don't think you did. You didn't like her, she bugged you for whatever reason. And when she called your view of her clouded how you reacted.but I cannot get past the salient facts that:
- The tenant breached her contract.
- I did not breach my contract - no court of law would hold that a central heating repair taking 10 days or an internal lock repair taking 2 weeks was a breach of a tenancy agreement (see under the Deposit Problem thread on here for what is actually quite normal and still probably not a fundamental breach of contract in a tenancy)
- She moved out extremely quickly and without asking me for a reference, the logical implication being that she already had somewhere else to live and that it was a place which did not require a reference
So you can make assumptions about what she was doing but I can't make assumptions as to why she needed a lock?
You may not have breached your contract but your attitude was cavalier and that is very frustrating for any tenant.
In your opinion. She wasn't happy about it so obviously didn't share your view.- It is within general knowledge that it is not so cold in August that you will suffer hardship with use only of an electric heater and a hot shower for 10 daysCan I also say, as a landlord, if I found out that my tenant's friends were popping round at all hours and staying when my tenants were out, I would be extremely annoyed. It would be a clear breach of the tenancy agreement and also extremely rude to the other tenant/s. Even in a student flat, you would expect some level of courtesy and forewarning and I still think it would be odd for groups of people to be given extra keys (my students can't generally hold onto their own keys, never mind make copies for others!). Ditto parents popping in unanounced all the time - again, how odd. When I was a student, I would have been mortified if my parents had done that - a visit is fine, to have your parents in and out all the time - no.
I'm not suggesting that any tenant have a free for all in an apartment or go handing out keys. But in reality, in a shared flat, you would never be 100% sure that someone wouldn't come in unexpectedly. I have never ever felt comfortable walking around naked in a shared place, even though my housemates used to all go home every weekend. But yes, sometimes they'd come back etc. It wasn't a very regular occurance but I was never as comfortable in a shared house as I am now in my own rented place. There is always a risk someone will come by. And therefore, she may have still felt wary about showering with the door unlocked. Just in case.0 -
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Ah c'mon now Ash...
I get that you're trying to present the situation from the tenant's point of view, but I really can't see how you can defend her behaviour as being reasonable.
The facts (as presented by the OP) are that the tenant broke her lease agreement and gave the following as her reasons
- Central heating/hot water not working for (up to) 10 days in August. Electric shower and electric heater provided.
- A bulb blew in the sitting room which required the trip switch to be flicked
- A malfunctioning bathroom door lock at a period when there was no one else in the apartment
These are not reasonable causes for breaking a lease in my view and in the view of many other posters.0 -
Other than saying that I think she was right to be annoyed about a 10 day delay with getting heating fixed and that the LL was wrong to dismiss her for 2 weeks with regard to the lock, I haven't defended her behaviour. The OP asked was it unreasonable.Ah c'mon now Ash...
I get that you're trying to present the situation from the tenant's point of view, but I really can't see how you can defend her behaviour as being reasonable.
Personally I wouldn't lose my deposit by walking out on a lease over a few broken things. But I still maintain the LL shouldn't have dismissed her with a 2 week wait and I also think 10 days is a long time to be left without hot water (aside from the electric shower) and I'd be unimpressed at the delay. I'd be even more unimpressed at the LL dismissing my complaint about a broken lock on a shared bathroom simply because s/he was on holidays.The facts (as presented by the OP) are that the tenant broke her lease agreement and gave the following as her reasons
- Central heating/hot water not working for (up to) 10 days in August. Electric shower and electric heater provided.
- A bulb blew in the sitting room which required the trip switch to be flicked
- A malfunctioning bathroom door lock at a period when there was no one else in the apartment
These are not reasonable causes for breaking a lease in my view and in the view of many other posters.
I would argue that it was the LL dismissive attitude which lead to the tenant getting annoyed and walking.0 -
Other than saying that I think she was right to be annoyed about a 10 day delay with getting heating fixed and that the LL was wrong to dismiss her for 2 weeks with regard to the lock, I haven't defended her behaviour. The OP asked was it unreasonable.
Personally I wouldn't lose my deposit by walking out on a lease over a few broken things. But I still maintain the LL shouldn't have dismissed her with a 2 week wait and I also think 10 days is a long time to be left without hot water (aside from the electric shower) and I'd be unimpressed at the delay. I'd be even more unimpressed at the LL dismissing my complaint about a broken lock on a shared bathroom simply because s/he was on holidays.
Well fair enough, I misinterpreted your posts. I thought you were trying to say that the tenants behaviour was reasonable.
I disagree with you about the 10 day delay. The situation was in hand, the part was on order, alternative shower/heating was provided. It may have caused a bit of inconvenience, but these are the things that happen from time to time, whether you're renting or you own a house. I don't think the tenant was justified in getting so annoyed about it. Certainly not to the point of threatening to withhold rent and then leaving altogether.I would argue that it was the LL dismissive attitude which lead to the tenant getting annoyed and walking.
But surely it's still unreasonable behaviour to break the lease because of a disagreement with the landlord over whether the heating was getting fixed in an appropriate time-frame and whether the OP considered the 'broken' door lock as requiring urgent attention.0 -
I also think 10 days is a long time to be left without hot water (aside from the electric shower)
The washing machine and dishwasher were not effected by the broken boiler according to the LL and there was a working shower with hot water that she could use, what else would she need hot water for? Seriously 10 days is nothing and as I asked alot earlier in the thread what do you expect the LL to do? They called a plumber, the part needed was ordered, they couldn't magic the part out of thin air so it was going to take 10 days to arrive and be installed, as far as I can see the LL did everything correctly and not court in the country would side with the tenant being right in waking out of a lease over that.and I'd be unimpressed at the delay. I'd be even more unimpressed at the LL dismissing my complaint about a broken lock on a shared bathroom simply because she was on holidays.
The broken lock came at the end of a long list of faults from this person, the LL had booked tradesmen to check on all the faults up until this point and some had proven not to be faults at all and the LL still had to pay for their time. Someone early on in the thread compared it to the boy who called wolf and I think thats a good example. If you had someone ringing with faults that in the majority of cases didn't turn out to be faults then rang with what is a minor fault [internal lock not working] would you cut your holiday short or pay yet another tradesmen to come look at it?
A claimed broken internal lock in a flat with only two people and one is away I would class as minor. No one else should have keys, if they do that's not the LL fault. If the girl felt so uncomfortable about the flatmate why did she move in there in the first place?0 -
Certainly not to the point of threatening to withhold rent and then leaving altogether.
She didn't just threaten to withhold rent, she phoned me up on a Sunday evening to tell me she had already cancelled her direct debit for the rent and was stopping paying. Which was a total of 4 days after the central heating had stopped working and after I had given her a date for it being fixed. I really do not think she moved out because of "my attitude" or whether or not I liked her (and Ash you are wrong there because I did like her and was disappointed in her as a person). I think she moved out because she is the sort of person who spends a few months here, a few months there, and breaks leases on a whim. She also got on very well with the flatmate, and I believe its no coincidence that the phone calls started virtually the minute he went away on holiday and she was left alone in the apartment.0
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