Ahern considers presidency bid

Biggins

Stekelly wrote: »

How many politicians running for any office mention the bad stuff they've done

I know but the writer of the article doesn't care to bring it up either but instead uses the piece as maybe a thinly disguised Bertie mouth piece instead!

What's CHARLIE TAYLOR's affiliations and why didn't he call Bertie up on his own personal history of dealings, properties and possible backhanders, tax, etc...?

Nijmegen

Norris, I believe, is a clean slate: A politician with a good record, a clean record at that, who is intellectual and entertaining.

As opposed to Ahern: A politician with a mixed record (Good: Peace process. Bad: Google NAMA, Anglo Irish Bank, etc), a shady personal financial record at best, who comes across as an everyman, yes, and entertaining in a grim way.

bamboozle

Biggins wrote: »

Maybe a poll is called for with a few viable names?
Can I vote for Dustin?

i've no idea how to add voting/poll options to the thread??? if someone can advise i'll do it

Wolfe Tone

bamboozle wrote: »

i've no idea how to add voting/poll options to the thread??? if someone can advise i'll do it

PM a mod and ask?

Fratton Fred

I never thought not being able to vote in Presidential elections would bother me, until I saw bertie's name put in the hat.

I'd rather see David Norris than Bertie, but then, I'd rather have Lucy Kennedy than Bertie, or Podge and Rodge for that matter.

Liam Byrne

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

In your opinion. Many see it as 1916, 1921 or 1937. I fail to see why you need to bring that up in this thread anyway.

It was one of the reasons that someone put forward for ruling out Norris; they didn't want him as president for "the centenary".

That wouldn't be particularly relevant if the centenary isn't for another 40-odd years.

Mind you, the same person wanted someone who doesn't even recognise the country as president, so I guess 1948 is irrelevant to them anyway.

Wolfe Tone

Liam Byrne wrote: »

It was one of the reasons that someone put forward for ruling out Norris; they didn't want him as president for "the centenary".

Mind you, the same person wanted someone who doesn't even recognise the country as president, so I guess 1948 is irrelevant to them anyway.

The centenary of the rising.

nordisk celt83

I'd like to see a link for the David Norris 1916 comments, and gather info as to whether it's a topic of much importance to him (I very much doubt it's something he has great convictions about)...
He is a very proud Irishman, and his views on one aspect of Irish history can't colour a decision as to whether he should be elected president or not.

Out of interest Mussolini, if he were to retract the statement as a folly of his youth or as a remark to elicit debate and questioning why would you not vote for him then?


He's an intelligent man who is open to ideas and debate pehaps he was just putting something out there to open people's minds to differing ideas that exist on this diverse and often divided island. We all say thing we don't mean or to evoke a reaction!!! One comment David Norris may have made to get a reaction, and bring awareness to the fact that not all people view history in the same light is surely not a reason to rule him out as a president of our wonderful little republic.

Also, if IIRC I think Norris' comments on the matter may have related to the fact that the participants of the 1916 rising were viewed as terrorists by a great many of their Irish contmeporaries. This is simply fact, and can't be changed!!!

nordisk celt83

Just to clarify I'm not calling the men and women of 1916 terrorists, just pointing out that to a great number of Dublin citizens on Easter Monday 1916 they were viewed as such.

In regards to Bertie, he's an arrogant, self-congratulating dispicable man. I couldn't think of a worse choice of candidate to be our president. His whole family, and their up their own arse vacuous lifestlye speaks volumes about him and them as a collective!!!

RonMexico

Are people actually serious about George Hook :eek:


David Norris all the way.

Bertie can go and ****e.

bijapos

That article in the Irish Times is about an interview that Ahern gave on the John Murray Show on Radio 1 this morning at 9.00. Strange the IT did not mention the source. The interview starts below about 2:05 in.

Its about 25 mins long.

http://www.rte.ie/radio1/player_av.html?0,null,200,http://dynamic.rte.ie/quickaxs/209-r1-thejohnmurrayshow.smil

Wolfe Tone

nordisk celt83 wrote: »

I'd like to see a link for the David Norris 1916 comments, and gather info as to whether it's a topic of much importance to him (I very much doubt it's something he has great convictions about)...
He is a very proud Irishman, and his views on one aspect of Irish history can't colour a decision as to whether he should be elected president or not.

Out of interest Mussolini, if he were to retract the statement as a folly of his youth or as a remark to elicit debate and questioning why would you not vote for him then?


He's an intelligent man who is open to ideas and debate pehaps he was just putting something out there to open people's minds to differing ideas that exist on this diverse and often divided island. We all say thing we don't mean or to evoke a reaction!!! One comment David Norris may have made to get a reaction, and bring awareness to the fact that not all people view history in the same light is surely not a reason to rule him out as a president of our wonderful little republic.

Also, if IIRC I think Norris' comments on the matter may have related to the fact that the participants of the 1916 rising were viewed as terrorists by a great many of their Irish contmeporaries. This is simply fact, and can't be changed!!!

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article7043719.ece

After a quick google it is touched on in this profile of him.

He has said it. If he were to apologize for it, retract it and acknowledge that the me of 1916 were heroes then I would probably vote for him.


Although I would much rather have him in the Dail where he might b able to achieve things.

talla10

bamboozle wrote: »

He is either completely dillusional or thinks there are enough idiots out there who will vote him into Aras An Uachtaran.

Never underestimate the number if idiots in this country. We voted in Fianna Fail (AGAIN!!!!) and the Green party (who i think should be renamed the **** cnut party)

Wolfe Tone

talla10 wrote: »

Never underestimate the number if idiots in this country. We voted in Fianna Fail (AGAIN!!!!) and the Green party (who i think should be renamed the **** cnut party)

People voted for the greens because their leader promised they would not sell their souls.

capulet

Are you joking? "a bit too camp"? David is independent, educated, and not crooked......emm?

talla10

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

People voted for the greens because their leader promised they would not sell their souls.

Instead he would just harvest them for renewable energy

stepbar

The nation should encourage Bertie to run for the Aras just to make a point and vote NO.

Biggins

stepbar wrote: »

The nation should encourage Bertie to run for the Aras just to make a point and vote NO.

...Except that the dumb voting parish pump sheep of this country might actually vote "Yes" and that's like playing Russian roulette.
Sooner or later, you get what you least desire!

Why allow that chance at all to be taken? He should be off the world/national/local stage, not put back up on it even temporary-wise!

demonspawn

bamboozle wrote: »

He is either completely dillusional or knows there are enough idiots out there who will vote him into Aras An Uachtaran.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0908/breaking28.html

Fixed that for ya. Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if he got the job.

demonspawn

RonMexico wrote: »

Are people actually serious about George Hook :eek:


David Norris all the way.

Bertie can go and ****e.

I saw David Norris on O'Connell bridge one day with his bit of hair greased back, he was sweating profusely, and he was wearing this brownish paisley shirt with the top 3-4 buttons undone, something that you would imagine a poor Mexican pimp would wear. He had a couple of thin gold chains and I think he was wearing a load of fake tan as well or he just came back from his holidays. My opinion of him changed that day.

Colonel Sanders

More delusional waffle from our glorious ex Taoiseach. I knew the man was delusional and on the brink of megalomania but I actually fear for his mental health after reading this

Delusional Weasel wrote: »

"Of course the banking thing was wrong and of course they shouldn't have been using the wholesale interbank rate to get the money that they did,

The economic genius speaks....

Delusional Weasel wrote: »

"I'd love to say I was getting daily reports on who was getting what out of the banks, what guarantees were being given, what due diligence was being done but unfortunately in our system the Central Bank is independent and so far as I got any reports, and even up till April 2008, they were saying, 'listen I think things will be alright, liquidity is improving slightly,' and that was the view."

As the Talking Heads once sang, you're talking a lot but you're not saying anything. Plenty of people warned you about the state of the economy and the banking system but you told then to commit suicide

Delusional Weasel wrote: »

"The reality is I left this country in a state where we had low national debt, where we had full employment, low taxes and I didn't foresee Lehman's coming down and the rules changing,"

Em, the sh!t had hit the fan in the economy long before Lehman's went bust and in any case the economy was screwed either. "International factors" merely hastened the revelation that the Emperor had no clothes

Defending the infamous suicide comments:

Delusional Weasel wrote: »

"What I was talking about that day was that when a bit of pressure comes on, the thing to do is to talk up your country, not talk down your country. That was the context and I share that sentiment today," he said. "The world recession didn't start in Ireland and we have to lead ourselves out of this."

I remember a favourite phrase of the head in the sand merchants, you'll talk us into a recession. No possible but as I've said before you can talk (or spin or bluff) your way out of one either. People label Morgan Kelly a doom monger. I don't. His articles always high government inaction and/or idiocy. However many of them have an air of "you ****ed up but it's not too late to turn the tide". Actions and decisive plans for actions speak far louder than the bluffers & spin merchants that inhabit this rancid government

Re the proposed national stadium in Abbotstown, the infamous "Bertie Bowl"

Delusional Weasel wrote: »

"I think it was one of the worse mistakes that we ever made. I think there were lots of mistakes, and people will say ‘he didn't mention all the other ones’, but I think that that was a terrible mistake," he added.

Holy crap. is this man for real? Not building a national stadium one of the worst mistakes? Where would he place the following:

- fueling a massive property bubble, the aftermath of which may well bankrupt the country
- benchmarking and massive government spending increases funded on the assumption that an unsustainable tax base would fund it
- the decentralisation debacle
- Allowing the Porkfest at FAS to remain unchecked for so long
- throwing money at any problem that came up
- assuming that a country our size building 80k houses per year (and forecasting revenue streams off this assumption) was "normal"

and so on and so on. Obviously the fact that an extra 20,000 fans can't watch soccer or rugby internationals is a far greater cock up than any of these

I actually think I'm going to be sick :mad:

Biggins

demonspawn wrote: »

I saw David Norris on O'Connell bridge one day with his bit of hair greased back, he was sweating profusely, and he was wearing this paisley brownish shirt with the top 3-4 buttons undone, something that you would imagine a poor Mexican pimp would wear. He had a couple of thin gold chains and I think he was wearing a load of fake tan as well or he just came back from his holidays. My opinion of him changed that day.

Fair comment - you do realise by the way, the thousands upon thousands Bertie used to charge to the state (thats you and I) every year for his make-up?

Now records obtained by the Sunday Independent show both Taoiseach Brian Cowen and Finance Minister Brian Lenihan have between them employed the services of professional make-up artists on three occasions in the past year at a daily rate of €454

Bertie Ahern meanwhile, ran up a bill for €11,190.73 in the five-month period leading up to his handover of power to his successor.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/brians-challenge-berties-reputation-with-makeup-bill-1566334.html

A news report from 2005:

TAOISEACH Bertie Ahern is spending more money than the average industrial wage on make-up, and it's all at the taxpayers' expense, figures compiled by the Irish Independent reveal. TAOISEACH Bertie Ahern is spending more money than the average industrial wage on make-up, and it's all at the taxpayers' expense, figures compiled by the Irish Independent reveal.
Mr Ahern has spent a staggering €167,000 on looking good since becoming Taoiseach in 1997, including €27,447 in the last year. Figures from his department reveal Mr Ahern is spending €550 a week, almost double the minimum wage, on his appearance.
He has spent over €70,000 on make-up since re-election in 2002. The figures for cosmetics from 1998 to 2002 stand at just over €95,000.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/no-sparing-berties-blusher-in-makeup-budget-253885.html

demonspawn

Biggins wrote: »

Fair comment - you do realise by the way, the thousands upon thousands Bertie used to charge to the state (thats you and I) every year for his make-up?

Oh, I'm not saying Norris would abuse his position for personal gain at all, I think he's a morally responsible person. I just don't think he should be the public representation of this country.

I'd love to see Joe Higgins run for either Taoiseach or president as an independent. He's a man of good character and convictions (quite literally ) and would be the ideal candidate for a leadership position, as long as he drops the Socialist party.

I have nothing against the Socialist party, but many in this country obviously do and it just hurts his political image.

Vote Joe Higgins!!

stepbar

Biggins wrote: »

...Except that the dumb voting parish pump sheep of this country might actually vote "Yes" and that's like playing Russian roulette.
Sooner or later, you get what you least desire!

Why allow that chance at all to be taken? He should be off the world/national/local stage, not put back up on it even temporary-wise!

Look there's a very good chance FF will nominate him anyhow. Unless i'm totally reading things wrong there's no chance a FF'er will get the top job over mind any job the way things are going.

Nijmegen

demonspawn wrote: »

Oh, I'm not saying Norris would abuse his position for personal gain at all, I think he's a morally responsible person. I just don't think he should be the public representation of this country.

I'd love to see Joe Higgins run for either Taoiseach or president as an independent. He's a man of good character and convictions (quite literally ) and would be the ideal candidate for a leadership position, as long as he drops the Socialist party.

I have nothing against the Socialist party, but many in this country obviously do and it just hurts his political image.

Vote Joe Higgins!!

One of the duties of the President is to represent Ireland on trade missions, to help attract foreign direct investment and so forth.

Much as I like Joe Higgins, I'm not sure how a lecture on hardcore socialism and the evils of profit making would go down in such circles

Meanwhile, I think that Norris would be a rather intelligent and witty character they wouldn't forget for better reasons.

demonspawn

Nijmegen wrote: »

One of the duties of the President is to represent Ireland on trade missions, to help attract foreign direct investment and so forth.

Much as I like Joe Higgins, I'm not sure how a lecture on hardcore socialism and the evils of profit making would go down in such circles

Meanwhile, I think that Norris would be a rather intelligent and witty character they wouldn't forget for better reasons.

hehe Fair point. I guess Old Joe would scare the bejeezus out of most people in other countries. He'd still make an excellent Taoiseach in my opinion. He'd whip the fat cats of this country into shape in no time.

Norris is incredibly charismatic, but I think a national figurehead needs more than just charisma. He's very opinionated on several issues and I think a president needs to show a bit more impartiality.

caseyann

The presidency already had become a joke here since the great predecessor's such as Patrick J Hillery,Séan T O'Ceallaigh would be rolling in his grave what that man did to Fianna fail , Douglas Hyde,and now a absolute mockery if he even considers stepping up for it.No way that man is anything on them.
If this country votes for him as a president or vote Fianna fail back in it well and truly deserves every piece of **** thrown at it.

Norris is actually a favourite of mine he is off his head and very intelligent.Pity we couldnt have him as Taoiseach instead:(,His speech on economy and the state of the country a while back was very sound.( OH AND HE DOESNT STUTTER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PeterIanStaker

Enda Kenny for the Park, that way he won't be able to make any decisions that matter.

demonspawn

caseyann wrote: »

Norris is actually a favourite of mine he is off his head and very intelligent.Pity we couldnt have him as Taoiseach instead:(,His speech on economy and the state of the country a while back was very sound.( OH AND HE DOESNT STUTTER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I agree that he's very intelligent and articulate. He's just a bit too liberal for my liking. Now Joe Higgins and David Norris as joint Taoiseach, that would be pretty awesome. Maybe have a three way with Michael McDowell and we'd be doing well. By the way, I personally can't stand McDowell but I think he could be a good leader.

Shea O'Meara

The Davestator wrote: »

Yawn - another bertie bashing thread. zzzzzzz

The people giving out about Bertie are the very same people who gave out that there was not enough hand outs, tax reductions during the boom years.

If the opposition had of got their way about giveaway budgets, we'd be in a lot worse a situation.

That's it in a nutshell.
The FFail 'Us and them' mentality. We will never progress under this mind set.

demonspawn

Shea O'Meara wrote: »

That's it in a nutshell.
The FFail 'Us and them' mentality. We will never progress under this mind set.

The whole FF mentality is "us and them". I think you'll find that most mainstream political parties and politicians have that mindset. It's the basis of partisan politics. What's the point you're trying to make exactly?

Edit: Sorry, just reread your post and I originally thought you were agreeing with the quote. I guess I should have addressed my post to The Davestator, so I will do that now.

caseyann

demonspawn wrote: »

I agree that he's very intelligent and articulate. He's just a bit too liberal for my liking. Now Joe Higgins and David Norris as joint Taoiseach, that would be pretty awesome. Maybe have a three way with Michael McDowell and we'd be doing well. By the way, I personally can't stand McDowell but I think he could be a good leader.

Nice mix we could just stick them in a party alone and run the country I am liking your ideas.Take the one from each party who shows good economic and leadership and for the people and the country skills.Who have volunteered reduction in their pay,and we would be set. :cool:

Ulysses Gaze

The Davestator wrote: »

Yawn - another bertie bashing thread. zzzzzzz

The people giving out about Bertie are the very same people who gave out that there was not enough hand outs, tax reductions during the boom years.

If the opposition had of got their way about giveaway budgets, we'd be in a lot worse a situation.

And if Germany had won the Battle of Britain we'd all be speaking German now.

Ifs, buts and maybes.

The Soldiers of Bankruptcy were in power for the last 10 or so years pal. Enough time and with enough extra capital to really make something of this country.

But alas, as before, they f!cked up the chance.

Liam Byrne

The Davestator wrote: »

If the opposition had of got their way about giveaway budgets, we'd be in a lot worse a situation.

Is there a word missing from this sentence or something ? It doesn't make sense.

lugha

Personally I would favour Norris, largely because he is outside of party politics. But failing that, I would settle for some other non-political figure. Perhaps Seamus Heaney or maybe a former GAA president?

Stinicker

I think Senator Shane Ross would make a perfect president, Educated and with ethics. The same man if in office would refuse to sign the goverment bills coming before and force an election I am sure, we need a president who is a politician and who will make the president the watchdog on Government.

Nijmegen

demonspawn wrote: »

Norris is incredibly charismatic, but I think a national figurehead needs more than just charisma. He's very opinionated on several issues and I think a president needs to show a bit more impartiality.

I think a President with opinions wouldn't be such a bad idea. S/he can't make policy, but s/he sure can help to fire up some debates. And a good President can start a debate, take a position, but still sign a law (that is legal). Enlightened debate and wisdom should be the forefront of politics, not excluded from it.

caseyann

Government answerable to the president president answerable to the people.

lugha

Nijmegen wrote: »

I think a President with opinions wouldn't be such a bad idea. S/he can't make policy, but s/he sure can help to fire up some debates. And a good President can start a debate, take a position, but still sign a law (that is legal). Enlightened debate and wisdom should be the forefront of politics, not excluded from it.

The president can do or say very little without the consent of the government of the day. And whether it is by law or convention, they do not get involved in politics.

Darlughda

Mary Robinson was a distinguished human rights lawyer when elected to the position of president.

As much as I like him, Norris is a middle class guy who is only concerned about turning the GPO into the new Abbey.

FFS, get real. There are people here in this country who find this outrageous compared to the human rights issues they are living with day to day.

As for Bertie. Don't get me started. Really. The stocks to start him off with and then a lengthy stay in prison.

At the very least.

Wolfe Tone

lugha wrote: »

The president can do or say very little without the consent of the government of the day. And whether it is by law or convention, they do not get involved in politics.

What would happen if the president point blank refused to sign a bill?

caseyann

Darlughda wrote: »

Mary Robinson was a distinguished human rights lawyer when elected to the position of president.

As much as I like him, Norris is a middle class guy who is only concerned about turning the GPO into the new Abbey.

FFS, get real. There are people here in this country who find this outrageous compared to the human rights issues they are living with day to day.

As for Bertie. Don't get me started. Really. The stocks to start him off with and then a lengthy stay in prison.

At the very least.

Prison no.Hit where it hurts purse strings.

lugha

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

What would happen if the president point blank refused to sign a bill?

Some blueshirt will call him/her a thundering disgrace and force them to resign! :pac:
Don't know TBH. I wonder what the Czechs made of their man dragging his heals over Lisbon?

bmaxi

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

What would happen if the president point blank refused to sign a bill?

AFAIR President O'Dálaigh refused to sign the Emergency Powers Bill and referred it to the Supreme Court. The Government closed ranks and he didn't last long afterwards.

caseyann

bmaxi wrote: »

AFAIR President O'Dálaigh refused to sign the Emergency Powers Bill and referred it to the Supreme Court. The Government closed ranks and he didn't last long afterwards.

He sounded right not to.

Seth Brundle

Bertie may want the position. However, if I may, I'd like to recommend someone for the job - someone with some similar traits as Bertie but overall has better qualifications, more charisma, is honest and I honestly don't think that he will lie or cheat the electorate.

My candidate, I suppose like Bertie, hasn't a bank account or a tax clearance cert. However, I've never known him to need a dig out or give his friends well paid jobs just for the sake of it. He's a good one and straight from the people.
I honestly think [MOD WARNING: unpleasant image]my candidate[/MOD WARNING] would be a better president than Bertie.

Wolfe Tone

kbannon wrote: »

Bertie may want the position. However, if I may, I'd like to recommend someone for the job - someone with some similar traits as Bertie but overall has better qualifications, more charisma, is honest and I honestly don't think that he will lie or cheat the electorate.

My candidate, I suppose like Bertie, hasn't a bank account or a tax clearance cert. However, I've never known him to need a dig out or give his friends well paid jobs just for the sake of it. He's a good one and straight from the people.
I honestly think my candidate would be a better president than Bertie.

FFS!

Really appreciated seeing that, I feel sick now.

Darlughda

kbannon wrote: »

Bertie may want the position. However, if I may, I'd like to recommend someone for the job - someone with some similar traits as Bertie but overall has better qualifications, more charisma, is honest and I honestly don't think that he will lie or cheat the electorate.

My candidate, I suppose like Bertie, hasn't a bank account or a tax clearance cert. However, I've never known him to need a dig out or give his friends well paid jobs just for the sake of it. He's a good one and straight from the people.
I honestly think my candidate would be a better president than Bertie.

In all fairness now your candidate, looks suspiciously like the real Bertie.

Liam Byrne

Darlughda wrote: »

In all fairness now your candidate, looks suspiciously like the real Bertie.

No - it looks like Ireland after Ahern was finished with it.

bernardo mac

Sh**e you are right.I did feel mentally and physically sick listening to Bertie this morning.A nauseating mediocre and ill educated tunnel visioned slippery individual who did not even write the book from which he benefits.