Protestor dances on Haughey's grave (video)

MrDarcy

flash1080 wrote: »

It's funny that whenever there's a protest, no matter how it's done, people on here hurl abuse at the protesters. Then those people go back to bitching and moaning about other things but do nothing about it.

What your man did wasn't a protest, it was pathethic and absolutely cringeworthy. I hear that he won a Lotto jackpot and then had a few business failures. Is he trying to make some kind of illogical and irrational connection between his own life experiences in business that ultimately ended in failure and the fact that the country is run by corrupt politicians???

It seems to me that the man is deeply unhappy, but if you win the Lotto and make bad business decisions, then you will unfortunately lose your Lotto money, but it won't be Charlie Haughey's fault or Bertie Ahern's fault, you just have to have the courage to look in the mirror and face the unsavory fact that it was actually your own fault...

No point in dancing on someone's grave about it and having your smug two minutes of vindictive fame on the internet, you will just end up looking like a complete and utter failure, as has happened here...

the_dark_side

if this is his greatest moment, I wouldnt want to meet him on a down day... he doesn't strike me as someone who would be very shrewd in business.... as the saying goes, 'a fool and his money are easily parted'

Pretty_Pistol

It looks very childish.

Faith+1

Pretty_Pistol wrote: »

It looks very childish.

+1 Agreed. He made alot of interesting points until he did that dancing crap. Didn't like Haughey but I wouldn't disrespect his grave.

MrDarcy

When you see people acting like this in a society, I think it reflects on the mood of people in general. I think at some stage in this ocuntry we unfortunately will have a Dunblane or Columbine type massacre in this country.

How many people out there are of a similar mindset as your man on the youtube video, obvioulsy lacking self control and carrying around a large burden of vindictiveness, hostility and anger??? How many might have access to a weapon or a vehicle which could be used to do damage to human life??? How many might be involved in drugs where you could have a whole different set of rules of engagement for those individuals???

mikemac

aurelius79 wrote: »

Haughey was the one of the worst scumbags in Irish history, right after that prick who signed the death sentences of the men and women who freed us from the British Empire.

General Maxwell

If you start a rising in a time of war then it's a certainty the leaders will meet a firing squad.
The leaders knew exactly what was going to happen them Easter week

You seem suprised

MrDarcy

feelingstressed wrote: »

General Maxwell

If you start a rising in a time of war then it's a certainty the leaders will meet a firing squad.
The leaders knew exactly what was going to happen them Easter week

You seem suprised

If you read their accounts of the time, they knew full well they would be executed once they surrendered, they didn't have an issue with that, but they were concerned that the lads who were taking their orders would have met the same faith and that was the only concern that they had at the time.

super_furry

Good effort but the dancing was rubbish and outdated. The concept needs some jazzing up - silent disco on Haughey's grave anyone?

Paddy Samurai

Haughey does'nt give a sh!t....he's dead.But it is disrespectful and hurtfull to his family.......grandkids etc.
Think about some agrieved person dancing on your fathers grave to make a point,and posting it on the net. Would your mother ,siblings ,kids be upset?.


Although this could become a new fad , tit for tat grave dancing.You dance on my grave ,my kids dance on yours .
Sean is probably taking hiphop lessions as we speak.:D

MrDarcy

Paddy Samurai wrote: »

Haughey does'nt give a sh!t....he's dead.But it is disrespectful and hurtfull to his family.......grandkids etc.
Think about some agrieved person dancing on your fathers grave to make a point,and posting it on the net. Would your mother ,siblings ,kids be upset?.


Although this could become a new fad , tit for tat grave dancing.You dance on my grave ,my kids dance on yours .
Sean is probably taking hiphop lessions as we speak.:D

If he did it to any grave in my family he'd be giving his Cork FM radio interview from his bed in intensive care, I'd f*cking kick ten shades of sh*t out of him, he wouldn't be recognisable as the man in the youtube clip.

Goldenegg

What a complete immature kn*b! His presentation was interesting,up until he completely ruined it by trying to give Michael flatly a run for his money!

Regardless of whether you like or sternly dislike a human being, you DO NOT dance on somebodies grave. It is a respect thing,in which this guy has a complete lack of! All it will do is affect haugheys relatives. Idiot!

Why doesn't he try to run in the next elections and try and make a difference in going head to head with the brainless cowans and harneys instead of the lifeless haughey!

Bob Z

MrDarcy wrote: »

I don't think anyone on here feels any sympathy for Haughey, who is dead and simply cannot be the subject of sympathethic feelings by virtue of the fact that the man is dead.

But there is something extremely extremely shifty, manufactured and manipulating about the guy in that youtube video, his body language looks dangerous with his finger pointing in an accusing manner towards viewers, then the smug but yet calm look as he does a jig on the grave, it shows a very weird kind of vindictiveness that I can't say that I've ever sen before...

If it was done in anger with drink or something you'd nearly be able to understand it to some degree, but there is a calmness and a deep sense of vindictive reach about it that I find quite scary.

Yes I didn't watch much of it but it seemed too calm and calculated

Thrill

MrDarcy wrote: »

When you see people acting like this in a society, I think it reflects on the mood of people in general. I think at some stage in this ocuntry we unfortunately will have a Dunblane or Columbine type massacre in this country.

How many people out there are of a similar mindset as your man on the youtube video, obvioulsy lacking self control and carrying around a large burden of vindictiveness, hostility and anger??? How many might have access to a weapon or a vehicle which could be used to do damage to human life??? How many might be involved in drugs where you could have a whole different set of rules of engagement for those individuals???

MrDarcy wrote:

If he did it to any grave in my family he'd be giving his Cork FM radio interview from his bed in intensive care, I'd f*cking kick ten shades of sh*t out of him, he wouldn't be recognisable as the man in the youtube clip.

So you would meet peaceful (if disrespectful) protest with mindless violence?

gbee

I'm delighted he did it. Some dead don't deserve respect! Don't forget that when you die leaving a big loan, the banks come after your estate and can turf out your survivors, your wife and family maybe.

As for cool calculated and calm, it's a sign of the deep hopelessness that is pervading all Irish society, except for professional dolesters, those on the dole or social welfare since before the recession.

Paddy Samurai

Thrill wrote: »

So you would meet peaceful (if disrespectful) protest with mindless violence?

I don't think mindless would be the correct term,

MrDarcy wrote: »

I'd f*cking kick ten shades of sh*t out of him,

.
Kicking ten shades of sh!t out of someone requires meticulous planning in order to ensure the ten different shades are produced during the kicking period.
Maybe the forced feeding of food colourants in between kicking sessions would help produce the desired results.

mikemac

I think we're going to see a lot of copycat videos on youtube over the next few weeks

Whose grave is next?

gbee

feelingstressed wrote: »

Whose grave is next?

Bertie's! Oh wait he's no ..................

StephenHendry

disgraceful and cowardly act, haughey did a lot of bad but a lot of good for ireland as well ,

as he said himself " i done the state some service, they know it, no more of that"

conorhal

A typical Paddy protest, 'a day late and dollar short' with it's faux outrage.

This is the same numpty that ran for the Greens in the 90's (do I really have to say more?) on a platform of providing prostitutes to isolated elderly farmers...

I'd be as wary as fueling this self improtant self publisist with congratulations as I would be supporting Koran burning eejits in Florida.

It would be best to ignore the nutter.

mikemac

Opened the Titanic themed bar in Cobh
I remember watching a program on RTÉ all about it, it seemed a good idea and very unique

But ran into financial difficulty and a lot of money was lost

He's probably very bitter now, lost his lotto jackpot

FruitLover

MrDarcy wrote: »

If he did it to any grave in my family he'd be giving his Cork FM radio interview from his bed in intensive care, I'd f*cking kick ten shades of sh*t out of him, he wouldn't be recognisable as the man in the youtube clip.

Wow, I bet you're lethal. You come across as a real hard man on the internet, at least. I bet Chuck Norris checks under his bed for you before he goes to sleep. Fair play.

MrDarcy

FruitLover wrote: »

Wow, I bet you're lethal. You come across as a real hard man on the internet, at least. I bet Chuck Norris checks under his bed for you before he goes to sleep. Fair play.

Yeah yeah yeah whatever, at the end of the day Haughey, love him or hate him was a man with a family. Some people such as myself would interpret an attack on the character of one of us in the family, as an attack on the remainder of us. Now this isn't just a verbal attack that was made, jumping up and down on someone's grave and then getting someone to video you doing it and distributing it nationwide via news/media/radio/internet channels, if this was done to someone close to me, yes I'd put someone in hospital for it.

Keaney's issue is with himself, he lost money that he was very lucky to win, in a series of poor investments, but rather than be a man and take some f*cking responsibility for his poorly judged investment decisions, he is blatently antagonising a man who is dead and gone, as if it's Haughey's or anyone else's fault that the man is kicking himself that he had money and lost it.

expectationlost

if haugheys familiy admitted his failings then i'd protect his grave for them

30H!3

MrDarcy wrote: »

Yeah yeah yeah whatever, at the end of the day Haughey, love him or hate him was a man with a family. Some people such as myself would interpret an attack on the character of one of us in the family, as an attack on the remainder of us. Now this isn't just a verbal attack that was made, jumping up and down on someone's grave and then getting someone to video you doing it and distributing it nationwide via news/media/radio/internet channels, if this was done to someone close to me, yes I'd put someone in hospital for it.

Well maybe if these corrupt FF criminals realised their actions might also cause distress to their families in the future, they might think twice before robbing the country blind.

By the way this internet "hardman" image you're attempting to portray just makes you look foolish.

Owwmykneecap

Foolish Awesome!

MrDarcy

30H!3 wrote: »

Well maybe if these corrupt FF criminals realised their actions might also cause distress to their families in the future, they might think twice before robbing the country blind.

By the way this internet "hardman" image you're attempting to portray just makes you look foolish.

I'm not a hardman, I'm simply making the point that there are people who would not let him walk away from what he has done, some people would take the course of action that he has embarked upon, and would have very very little in the way of toleration for it. I wouldn't tolerate that being done to any family member of mine who died, regardless of what they had done, and I'd be dealing with him accordingly and in this instance, that guy wouldn't be able to dance on a grave again cos he would be in a f*cking wheelchair for the rest of his life.

That's my analysis, it might not be the same as others, if you think that is a stupid analysis or an over reaction, it's obviously a free country and you are free to think as you like. But he wouldn't be walking away from his actions if it was a family grave in my family that he was dancing on, nothing "hardman" about it, it just wouldn't be let go and he would be paying an inordinately high and painful price for his stupidity...

Bob Z

conorhal wrote: »

This is the same numpty that ran for the Greens in the 90's (do I really have to say more?) on a platform of providing prostitutes to isolated elderly farmers...

Actually now i kind of like the guy:D If thats trues its wacky

Bob Z

StephenHendry wrote: »

disgraceful and cowardly act, haughey did a lot of bad but a lot of good for ireland as well ,

as he said himself " i done the state some service, they know it, no more of that"

He did help a lot withthe peace process but you never hear about it

orourkeda

Perhaps I'm missing something here but wouldn't it have been better to protect against Charles Haughey when he was alive.

Alternatively take your concerns to a politician that is actually alive.

orourkeda

Bob Z wrote: »

He did help a lot withthe peace process but you never hear about it

Probably because he didnt bring about peace.

orourkeda

StephenHendry wrote: »

disgraceful and cowardly act, haughey did a lot of bad but a lot of good for ireland as well ,

as he said himself " i done the state some service, they know it, no more of that"

He quoted shakespeare.

Bob Z

orourkeda wrote: »

Perhaps I'm missing something here but wouldn't it have been better to protect against Charles Haughey when he was alive.

Alternatively take your concerns to a politician that is actually alive.

Dance on their grave while they are alive?

Bob Z

orourkeda wrote: »

Probably because he didnt bring about peace.

What do yoyu meaan peace eventually came around. There was a lot people involved at the start of the peace process who weren't involved in the actual outcome

Dyr

Bob Z wrote: »

There was a lot people involved at the start of the peace process who weren't involved in the actual outcome

And that little bollix was'nt one of them.

Mike 1972

Bob Z wrote: »

He did help a lot with the peace war process but they couldnt make the charges stick

FYP !

brendansmith

Haughey deserves better than this. The man is love personified.

Bob Z

Bambi wrote: »

And that little bollix was'nt one of them.

According to the the book The Book he was. And the book was largely critical of Haughey

dermo88

I despised Haughey when he was alive, and despise his corruption. I am saddened that as a politician, he had so much potential, yet that legacy is tainted by his corruption and cronyism. In his years as Justice Minister, and Health Minister, his reforms were simple, not expensive, but revolutionary, in terms of womens rights, inheritance rights and more.

Haughey was capable of getting away with it for so long simply because like other pseudo democratic dictators in other countries, such as Mahathir of Malaysia, Bjelke Petersen of Queensland, Australia, Lee Kuan Yew of Singapore, he had thick dossiers on practically all in his cabinet and surroundings. This insulated him from prosecution. Nobody touched J Edgar Hoover for example, while he was alive, because he knew too much. Haughey therefore, was the same, and corruption consequently flourished under his tenure.

He was having it off with Terry Keane, likely with the knowledge and forced consent of her husband, the Chief Justice. She wrote a gossip column, likely forcing the hand of the Independent editor to do so.

Lets face it. Everyone has secrets. People have affairs. Some people are gay, or their children are gay, and it was much more taboo when Haughey was around. People get drunk, do stupid things, commit minor crimes. Then they try and cover up, and it snowballs. Haughey strikes me as the very kind of man who could take advantage of such vulnerability, and I am now certain he did. There were the scandals with the church, which ironically only came to light after Haughey left, and that happened very quickly. I can only guess how.

These all happened when he had resigned, and the whole rotten edifice of the Irish establishment was shaken to the core. Haughey had been emasculated, all the sins of the estalishment were about to come to light, starting with Ben Dunne on a hooker and coke binge in Florida. For the Irish establishment, it was their apocalypse, for the people a revelation.

Haughey in my eyes, was the ultimate practioner of "keep your friends close, your enemies closer".

And that was why he stayed in power for so long.

If he said Bertie was the most cunning and devious of them all, then Charlie set a hard act to follow. If Haughey was correct, Bertie will never get caught.

As for dancing on his grave, inflicting such an indignity upon him merely generates sympathy from the lack of respect on a grave. Haughey is dead. He is not worth wasting anger, dance or piss on. We the people of Ireland live, and we live to see his legacy sullied.

I close by paraphrasing his final phrase as Taoiseach in Dail Eireann. "I have done the state some service and they know it"

Our nation knows this, we do our state a service to ignore his grave, and eventually allow the weeds to consume it.

dermo88

He does state that the cronyism and corruption began with Haughey. It was there all along, but it was concealed better, and certainly was not around to the same extent.

There were always a hint of suspicion regarding where he got his money from. Irelands draconian libel laws, designed to protect the vulnerable, were then abused to protect the wealthy. In the same way I alluded to in my first post (page 16 of thread)

The money that Haughey, Burke and the others got came from a surprisingly noble cause.

That was the construction and rezoning of land for the massive public housing projects that were built on the Northside of Dublin during the late 1960's and early 1970's. Prior to this, families in Dublin city centre lived in cramped, overcrowded conditions. While there had been public housing constructed previously, it was insufficient to cater for the demand.

This is one core reason why he is revered amongst many people in his former constituency. Haughey was generous to those who needed help, but should anyone cross his path, he was lethal.

Naturally, being "in the know", Haughey, Burke etc were able to buy those lands on the cheap as agricultural, and rezone them as residential. Immediately, this generated a 1000% profit. By smart accounting, capital gains taxes were minimal. This was at a time when taxation on capital gains, interest, profit, and earnings were absolutely draconian.

Vincent Keaney states that for every child under 18, the NAMA project will cost 11,200 Euro. For every adult above 18, with earning capacity, it will cost 22,500 Euro.

There is, understandably, a considerable amount of anger against Haughey, Cowen, NAMA, the cronies.

There is, by contrast, an unwillingness by Irelands people to pay extra taxation to support better public services, such as public housing. I will state that its perfectly rational, bearing in mind the memories of draconian levels of taxation levied on a majority who could barely afford it. Those who could afford to, or were able to left. There was/is, a sense of "What on earth are we paying so much for?".

A nation stands divided. State workers against private sector, politicians against the people. There is no sense of unity, no sense of trust. There is love of the nation, of the land of Ireland, but Keaney is trying to wake us all up. Building a nation is far more than cheering when Houghton puts a ball in the English net, or winning Rugby. While these are achievements in themselves, they blind us on how to make Ireland better. That was something I think that was forgotten in the Celtic Tiger era, when the obsession was about money for money's sake, and it was incredibly vulgar. NAMA is the hangover.

Ireland's curse is a mild admiration for cute hoorism and hookery. Lets be honest about admitting dishonesty. Frankly, if I had the ability, the know who, I would be as crooked as the worst of them. Who can deny that they would'nt. Power corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Ireland is no different than many nations in that regard. It just does not trickle down to the lower echelons of society. I find the normal people from Tallaght, Finglas, who are not rich, and are getting by far more honest and down to earth than many of those businessman who have brought Ireland to this impasse. The anger is there because they are expected to pay. There is also anger that after dining on steak and lobster, Ireland is now expected to return to soup, potatoes and buttermilk.

Ireland's curse was an obsession with land. It still is. NAMA is the by product. Ireland is now at the fifth stage of the crash. After disbelief, there is anger. After anger, acceptance. After acceptance, like 1987, like 1922, as before, I only hope the people of Ireland will knuckle down under an honest government, leading by example, by principle, as the founding fathers did, and get out of the mess created for so many, by so few.

In the 1980's and 1990's it was said "Garrett could'nt lie, Charlie could'nt tell the truth, Bertie does'nt know the difference". I now add on. Our leaders do not know the truth, they do not know how to lie next, and they are terrified of being different.

ch750536

feelingstressed wrote: »

I think we're going to see a lot of copycat videos on youtube over the next few weeks

Whose grave is next?

Thatchers, let me sort that one for you.

-Trek-

What an a$$hole (the protester) of the highest order. Regardless of what CH did during his life as a politician does not make this OK or funny, its disrespectful and disgusting.

super_furry

ch750536 wrote: »

Thatchers, let me sort that one for you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4BCUWopQQ4

Mike 1972

Terry wrote: »

Do you have sources for these claims, or is it just word of mouth?

I didnt realise this was Wikipedia but there should be something in or around page 4 of "Beginners guide to the blindingly obvious" from Common Sense Publications.

gbee

orourkeda wrote: »

Perhaps I'm missing something here but wouldn't it have been better to protect against Charles Haughey when he was alive..

Yes, and we're still looking for the disappeared!

steddyeddy

What a sh1tty thing to do, I think haughey was scum and paved the way for politicians to show no repect for the people of ireland for years to come but that video is pretty low.

gbee

Trekmad wrote: »

, its disrespectful and disgusting.

It's meant to be, it's meant to be. Glad he got through to you too.