Firearms range to hire

CPO

Hi, I'm new to this forum and I need information.

My company based in UK wish to run a firearms course in southern or NI. Myself and my colleague are trained firearms instructors.

What I'm after is information regarding the hiring of a range-up to 25m-for about 4 or 5 days. Ideally we would like to run the range with a range officer from the club perhaps.

We would be firing handguns, mainly SLP's but would need to hire these also along with ammo etc. I understand the requirement to have club membership for all students.

If anyone has any information on a club that could help could you please PM me. All our credentials can be verified but I will not divulged any on here for security reasons.

Any help would be appeciated, thank you

Sparks

Given the sensitivity of running any sort of range, you'd have to give more details on your intended use of the range than what you've posted here, I'd think.

CPO

The course would be a basic firearms course, that is instruction in all the basics required with emphasis on weapons handling, safety and accuracy.
Lots of emphasis on safety and no messing about.
There would be nothing fancy, this is about learning from scratch and becoming competent

The idea is to take novice students and teach them the 'correct' way to treat and handle a firearm so that if in their chosen career they are legally allowed to carry a firearm, they will have had correct training and confidence in their ability.
The course would have a final qualifcation shoot and would be a pass or fail course.
All students will be UK Security Industry Authority licenced and have had a criminal record check.
We in no way intend this to be a mickey mouse course and anyone thinking so will not be welcome.
Should anyone have information we will be pleased to meet the range owners face to face and show them our credentials.

Hope that answers your question Sparks-thanks

Sparks

It does CPO, but unless you're teaching pure bullseye target shooting, I don't think you'd be able to run a course like that in Ireland with firearms (except for paintball markers), it'd fall under the prohibition on combat training in the Firearms Act. Airsoft fields might be a better place to try.

dCorbus

I suggest that the OP contact the various authorised ranges directly and ask them if they are able to facilitate your group.

What is proposed sounds like something only the ranges can answer themselves once they have full and verified details of what you are proposing. I doubt if anyone on this forum will be able to answer your query as regards what may or may not be permissable on any particular range.

My company based in UK wish to run a firearms course in southern or NI

Not sure about the permissability or legality of running private firearms training courses in Ireland - but I'd be surprised if such activity is permissable, considering the current firearms legislation. But I'll let others (with more information) answer that one.

dCorbus

The idea is to take novice students and teach them the 'correct' way to treat and handle a firearm so that if in their chosen career they are legally allowed to carry a firearm

Surely, they would recieve such training as part of their "chosen career"? AFAIK the only professionals legally allowed carry firearms in the course of their professional career are LE and Military Personel? And anyone in these areas, should / will have recieved the requisite training as to how to "treat and handle a firearm"?

I can't think of any "novices" who would qualify in either of these groups.

If you're talking about private security operatives / consultants, then I would have thought these employees would not be "novices" if firearms were required / permitted to be used in the course of their work.

There's another scenario which springs to mind - but training in that field for novices would most definitely not be permitted on any range in this country, or at least, one would hope not.

rrpc

CPO wrote: »

We would be firing handguns, mainly SLP's but would need to hire these also along with ammo etc. I understand the requirement to have club membership for all students.

That bit could present a bit of a problem. Maximum calibre allowed for use under an authorisation is .22.

(a) the club would need to have these in sufficient numbers and
(b) it's straying rather close to 'pay for play'.

I'm not sure a club would actually have an authorisation that would allow this.

demonloop

CPO, you have PM

Grizzly 45

dCorbus wrote: »

If you're talking about private security operatives / consultants, then I would have thought these employees would not be "novices" if firearms were required / permitted to be used in the course of their work.

There's another scenario which springs to mind - but training in that field for novices would most definitely not be permitted on any range in this country, or at least, one would hope not.

Hmmm,it sounds like friend "CPO" is running a executive protection course of some type.

Sorry,just ISN'T going to happen under our laws here.
ANY type of the above or derivative using live firearms here will fall foul of the section 4C of the CJA2009,about combat training.Doubt any range would want to run that risk.

Not only that why bother here???You want to do this with whatever state of the art guns ,you go off to The East block or the Baltic states,or even Isreal or the USA where you can do all this and more with live fire???

FWIW you can train the saftey drills etc with airsoft,and the stripping,maintenance etc and get the real weight feel with a deact of the of the issued sidearm.100% legally in the UK.

CPO

This is not a 'combat course' - its to teach the basics of weapons handling, if they want combat then yes we would go abroad, but we have other training in mind alongside this, these people will not have had any training before. They would be allowed to carry in foreign countries with the right permits.
And I disagree, using air soft or deac weapons is not the same. But thanks for your comments, I will make enquiries with contacts in PSNI but I do beleive this type of course may be permissible as we wish to run it.

civdef

Wasn't something of this nature one of the big items that got Dermot Ahearne on his high horse in the first place?

Grizzly 45

Doesnt matter what you or I call it CPO.
The Irish Govt calls it that.;) So much so that a international sport called IPSC has been banned here because of misinformation,and anectdotal evidence of some secret squirrels running some naughty type training for some sort of mischeif on a little island nation a couple of years ago.

Not to mind a certain "Baron" orCheif somthing or other,who has been classified by those who are genuinely in "the trade" as well as the entire HM army as the biggest Walt ever.... Who funily enough has a family pile ,which turns out to be a hotel&golf course,smack bang in our current Minister for Justice's home constituency.Who brought in this ban as well
Kind of puts a large bucket of water on these activities down here .:(

Dunno about airsoft and deacts not being the same??A good few ex " Blades" who run these courses in the UK train newbies,good few of them being ex mil or civvies this way.
Hopefully you will have better luck with the NI,they tend to be a bit more open about these things up there.

tac foley

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Doesnt matter what you or I call it CPO.
The Irish Govt calls it that.;) So much so that a international sport called IPSC has been banned here because of misinformation,and anectdotal evidence of some secret squirrels running some naughty type training for some sort of mischeif on a little island nation a couple of years ago.

Not to mind a certain "Baron" orCheif somthing or other,who has been classified by those who are genuinely in "the trade" as well as the entire HM army as the biggest Walt ever.... Who funily enough has a family pile ,which turns out to be a hotel&golf course,smack bang in our current Minister for Justice's home constituency.Who brought in this ban as well
Kind of puts a large bucket of water on these activities down here .:(

Dunno about airsoft and deacts not being the same??A good few ex " Blades" who run these courses in the UK train newbies,good few of them being ex mil or civvies this way.
Hopefully you will have better luck with the NI,they tend to be a bit more open about these things up there.

+1

'Baron' Shortta*rse is the gentleman to whom you refer, just in case anybody is shy about mentioning one of the biggest fakers, Walts and 100% gold-plated gobsh*te on the planet.

...and Mr CPO, as you can plainly see, you are totally wasting your time and energy trying to do something in the RoI that is prohibited for the folks who actually live there full time.

My own two cents, added to Mr Grizzly's, is that you would be far better off attempting something like your plan in the Province, where full-calibre handguns are still allowed.

To tell the truth and to be brutally frank, if this had not already occurred to you then you have definitely failed to do any homework whatsoever, AFAICS. The HQ PSNI in Hollywood should be your next port of call.

If that gets you nowhere, as I fully expect that it will, then you might try the States of Jersey, where, again, fullbore handguns are still permitted, but don't get your hopes up.

tac

Sparks

I don't think Baron Shorttarse is the man's actual name, but it really, really ought to be. That he continues to operate in the Minister's own constituency after section 4C shut down IPSC and centerfire handgun licencing was halted, really does boggle the mind.

There is also the point to note - though I think Sikamick would have more details on this - that there has been at least one range in Ireland closed down for running a private security course in the last two years or so. The Gardai take a very dim view of such courses, and the DoJ an even dimmer one.

Grizzly 45

The complete IRONY of this is.
You CAN do it here,using the most state of the art weaponary,full auto,RPGS,pryotechnics,flashbangs,grenades,in full Gucci Ninja kit recreating any scenario or situation you could imagine with real life props and hostages...So long as it is AIRSOFT!!That to me is the biggest farsce.:(:(

jwshooter

CPO wrote: »

This is not a 'combat course' - its to teach the basics of weapons handling, if they want combat then yes we would go abroad, but we have other training in mind alongside this, these people will not have had any training before. They would be allowed to carry in foreign countries with the right permits.
And I disagree, using air soft or deac weapons is not the same. But thanks for your comments, I will make enquiries with contacts in PSNI but I do beleive this type of course may be permissible as we wish to run it.

weapons ... there is not one among us all .

tac foley

jwshooter wrote: »

weapons ... there is not one among us all .

Agreed.

The only 'weapons' in the RoI are held by the PDF/RDF. Just calling the course a 'weapons handling course' will set the alarm bells going in Phoenix Park.

My advice is to call it a day here in the RoI - you are NOT going to get a look-in - and talk to your pals in PSNI, but if you ever got this plan off the ground in Northern Ireland in the current climate I would be amazed.

All you are doing right now is beginning to arouse a certain degree of suspicion here with your continued insistence and giving ammunition to those detractors who would benefit from trying to close this board down.

If the answers that have been posted here haven't served to convince you then I'm sorry indeed, but I think we have tried to help you enough.

tac

Private Snafu

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

The complete IRONY of this is.
You CAN do it here,using the most state of the art weaponary,full auto,RPGS,pryotechnics,flashbangs,grenades,in full Gucci Ninja kit recreating any scenario or situation you could imagine with real life props and hostages...So long as it is AIRSOFT!!That to me is the biggest farsce.:(:(

Odd, ive yet to play on a site in the republic that freely allows the use of pyrotechnics (barring smoke "grenades")

I fail to see how the above situation is ironic :rolleyes:.... True the dimensions of some RIF's are similar to their real-steel counter parts, but try field stripping them, show how to clear a misfire or even try demonstrate a particular firearms recoil and you'll look like a right muppet....

Airsoft toys are just that...toys, they are not kit to train with (despite what others may say)

/end rant

Despite the above I agree 100% with previous posters... The republic isn't the right place for a course of this nature, the US would be far more accommodating for this sort of training

Grizzly 45

[

QUOTE=lperrozzi;67910846]Odd, ive yet to play on a site in the republic that freely allows the use of pyrotechnics (barring smoke "grenades")

No flashbangs then or multi pellet hand grenades???Funnily enough they are adverised in the "weekend warrior Ireland" magazines available in easons... The stuff is there and available.Well obviously not full strength milspec pyro stuff,but enough for grown up kiddies to play at soliders safely.

I fail to see how the above situation is ironic :rolleyes:....

That you can drill and perform total military operations and tactics that teach and counter police or military tactics that might be used in an armed situation??
Yet a sport that involves real firearms and has no military training or tactics WHATSOEVER is banned??:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

True the dimensions of some RIF's are similar to their real-steel counter parts, but try field stripping them, show how to clear a misfire or even try demonstrate a particular firearms recoil and you'll look like a right muppet....

But thats all you need,it is the fammiliarity where certain functions and controls are that are the same.As for fieldstripping,stoppage clearences,that can be actually explained,and stimulated.As that is basically the three fails,fail to eject,fail to feed ,fail to fire.

Recoil,well true enough,but again that is relative.Its not so much the weaponary,,but the actual drilling and training that is what could be misused.
In the 1980s the Gardai had a canary when paintball was first mooted.The IRA was going to use this for training and all sorts of end of the World predictions came out.Paintball is now just a sport in Ireland,and without any military overtones anymore.
Dont know of any PIRA men ever played paintball,but I do know of shall we say, "intresting past" foreginers who live and work here from the Far East and from East Europe who play airsoft 100% legally here to keep themselves sharp on military and police tactics they learned with real firepower in a previous life.They were the real Mc Coy,not some fantasists or Walts .So whats to say our locals arent using this for training for the next Tiger kidnap,or security van blag??

Airsoft toys are just that...toys, they are not kit to train with (despite what others may say)

Funny that then professionals that have actual experiance of warfare and military training,in real life that is,who train others for a living suggest and use this as a very effective way of weapons fammilisaration for experianced pros to train with or newbies to learn the basics with.
Unusual then that such respectable companies like Walther would make a more sturdier version of most generic firearm types in airsoft for LEO training??Or that most USPD training academies would be issuing their cadets these for firearm situation training scenarios.[They used to use paint ball pistols..the old Co2 single shot jobs]
But then what would they know??? They are just all muppetts!! :rolleyes::rolleyes: