Round 14: Italian Grand Prix

frostie500

After the excitment of Spa Formula 1 heads to Italy this weekend. My preview for this race is now available at www.stephenenglish.ie

losthorizon

Not a betting man at all and I only bet about once a year but i put a bet on Sutuil to finish in the top three. I got 11/2. I chanced €5. Force India usually does well around Monza. Heres hoping anyway.

Myrddin

Great write-up Frostie, cheers I'd never read about the '78 race where Peterson died, what a tragedy, especially the Police mess up.

Really looking forward to the race, I can't get enough F1 these days

frostie500

EnterNow wrote: »

Great write-up Frostie, cheers I'd never read about the '78 race where Peterson died, what a tragedy, especially the Police mess up.

Really looking forward to the race, I can't get enough F1 these days

I'm actually trying to piece everything together from that race to do an article on it for that will delve into it in a bit more detail(on the man and the crash) so I'll keep you posted!

Ghost Train

About Peterson death, wasn't due to infection but a fat embolism... blamed on the delay to treat his injuries. At least according to wiki

frostie500

Ghost Train wrote: »

About Peterson death, wasn't due to to infection but a fat embolism... blamed on the delay to treat it. At least according to wiki

Just after checking a few places and your'e right, i was always led to believe it was an infection! One way or another the actions of the police and the length of time to get medical attention had to be heavily accountable for his death

lord lucan

Really looking forward to Sundays race. Was at it last year so it'll be interesting to watch it on tv now.

Strangely my abiding memory of Monza from over the years was Hakkinen crying in the bushes in '99 and the Tifosi swarming around the fences laughing and taunting him!

frostie500

Pretty interesting opening session. Interesting to see McLaren using a much higher downforce configuration than anything I've ever seen at Monza.

They clearly think that with the F-Duct still allowing them to have a decent straight line speed they can gain a much greater advantage under braking than what would be possible in a straight line

Ghost Train

Hamilton running without the f duct for practice 2, Button with it, so will be interesting to see the different wings on the 2 Mclarens and which is faster

johnnysmack

Karem Chandok is excellant as a commentator. Very knowledgeable about past and present issues and technical things going on. Way better then anyone they have commentating on saturday or sunday.

If he doesnt get his race seat back then fire Brundle and get Chandok.

amacachi

johnnysmack wrote: »

Karem Chandok is excellant as a commentator. Very knowledgeable about past and present issues and technical things going on. Way better then anyone they have commentating on saturday or sunday.

If he doesnt get his race seat back then fire Brundle and get Chandok.

Fire Brundle?

johnnysmack

Fire Brundle from BBC and have Chandok commentate

Vegeta

johnnysmack wrote: »

Fire Brundle from BBC and have Chandok commentate

No way, Brundle is brilliant

Get rid of Jonathan Legard and bring in someone else

I do agree that Chandok is good in front of a camera and on the radio

amacachi

johnnysmack wrote: »

Fire Brundle from BBC and have Chandok commentate

I know, I was repeating it because I was completely incredulous.

frostie500

I'm a big fan of Chandhok but not sure if I'd be throwing Brundle to the dogs just yet! I've long viewed Brundle as the best analyst/pundit of Formula 1 and whether you listen or read his views they are generally on the money. As someone else said if anyone needs getting rid of its JL.

Second session was pretty interesting with McLaren running Button with an F-Duct and Hamilton without. Very little difference in ultimate lap times(presumably both were on the same fuel load). It would be surprising to see Button run without it if the difference is negligible, you'd have to say the extra stability would be more in tune with his setup needs whereas Hamilton can drive around some in-balances

losthorizon

Not Really a Brundle Fan but Legard is so much better than that guy who used to be on ITV. He drove me potty. As for Peter Collins :rolleyes:

A three man team of Ben Edwards, Brundle and John Watson wouldnt be bad.

frostie500

losthorizon wrote: »

As for Peter Collins :rolleyes:

Does Collins commentate for anyone on F1? I've always watched the ITV/BBC coverage so not sure who Setanta have doing their coverage

Ghost Train

I'd say top speeds at the end of the straights would decide if it's worth running the f-duct for Button

I'd be a bit surprised if they go two different ways for the race

mickdw

I dont understand why they dont have a superlow downforce setup with F duct too. Surely even running the traditional low downforce setup, there would still be an advantage in reducing the drag further on the straights?

amacachi

Ghost Train wrote: »

I'd say top speeds at the end of the straights would decide if it's worth running the f-duct for Button

I'd be a bit surprised if they go two different ways for the race

Depends, I would think that Hamilton could handle a twitchy car better so he'd need less wing than Button who may need more wing but run the f-duct. Thought with how good McLaren's f-duct is meant to be I don't see why they wouldn't both run it.

frostie500

mickdw wrote: »

I dont understand why they dont have a superlow downforce setup with F duct too. Surely even running the traditional low downforce setup, there would still be an advantage in reducing the drag further on the straights?

It is strange that they dont get any advantage when in low downforce trim but you'd have to expect that the system can only operate in finite windows(McLaren seemingly cant operate as low a setting as others) to still gain an advantage. McLaren clearly feel that they can only gain an advantage by running a higher downforce, and making the lap time up under braking. It is strange to see that the likes of Red Bull, Renault and Williams are running the F-Duct in low trim while McLaren cant

amacachi

LIGHTNING wrote: »

He is very good although I think Anthony Davidison is just slightly better than him.

Aye, I'm a big fan of Davidson, felt he could/should've had a better chance at a drive as well.

frostie500 wrote: »

It is strange that they dont get any advantage when in low downforce trim but you'd have to expect that the system can only operate in finite windows(McLaren seemingly cant operate as low a setting as others) to still gain an advantage. McLaren clearly feel that they can only gain an advantage by running a higher downforce, and making the lap time up under braking. It is strange to see that the likes of Red Bull, Renault and Williams are running the F-Duct in low trim while McLaren cant

Perhaps on low drag wings the f-duct isn't as effective either?

Ghost Train

Stalling the wing is obviously not as efficient as running a small low down force wing. Looking at the size of Buttons rear wing today it amazing the two configurations were so close today... anybody know if top speeds are available to compare the two?

Do prefer Davidsons commentry, always very enthusiastic. Karun does well too though, its funny where they're both there, they're almost fighting over pointing stuff out or getting in ahead of the other

amacachi

I meant that maybe when the wing is smaller the stalling has a much reduced effect. There's only so much drag can be reduced I guess.

http://www.formula1.com/results/season/2010/837/6780/speed_trap.html

Button quite a bit down in Practice 2, both of them a good bit down in practice 1.

Think it was at the last GP there was a question about what a particular driver's best finish was and Davidson tried to butt in though it was asked of Chandhok. :pac: They were both wrong in the end. ^_^

Ghost Train

Looking at those speeds, I don't see why Button would go with the big f-duct wing tomorrow, surely faster in the straights is the better strategy for being able to pass during the race, would there be any advantage to having a bit more grip/speed in the 3 or 4 fast corners with similar over all laptime

losthorizon

Ghost Train wrote: »

Looking at those speeds, I don't see why Button would go with the big f-duct wing tomorrow, surely faster in the straights is the better strategy for being able to pass during the race, would there be any advantage to having a bit more grip/speed in the 3 or 4 fast corners with similar over all laptime

BBC were reporting today that the two Virgins were fastest through the Speed Trap. Incredible! (Theres a joke in there somewhere). I thought it would be the Force Indias to be honest.

amacachi

Ghost Train wrote: »

Looking at those speeds, I don't see why Button would go with the big f-duct wing tomorrow, surely faster in the straights is the better strategy for being able to pass during the race, would there be any advantage to having a bit more grip/speed in the 3 or 4 fast corners with similar over all laptime

I'm not 100% up on the Parc Ferme rules for this year, but could they replace the wing before the race? That kind of speed differential is too much for the race, I agree. One slip in any of the corners and they'll plough past him, and as you said he'll never overtake anyone.

GTE

Chandok was fantastic as a commentator today.

He struck me as someone perfect to take over Legards place with Brundle beside. He commentated in that sort of way. I laughed so hard when he was practically running part of practice 2 today.

Talking about one technical thing then commenting on who has had a fast split while saying whats happening on screen. Very good.

Brundle says a lot more these days, thank the lord.

Ghost Train

amacachi wrote: »

I'm not 100% up on the Parc Ferme rules for this year, but could they replace the wing before the race? That kind of speed differential is too much for the race, I agree. One slip in any of the corners and they'll plough past him, and as you said he'll never overtake anyone.

No don't think so, qualifying and race have to be the same set up, might be able to change wings during a pit stop but that wouldn't be any help because of how long it would take

would be great if they could make the two set ups work in the race but I'd say they'll both have the small rear wing tomorrow morning

lord lucan

bbk wrote: »

Chandok was fantastic as a commentator today.

He struck me as someone perfect to take over Legards place with Brundle beside. He commentated in that sort of way. I laughed so hard when he was practically running part of practice 2 today.

Talking about one technical thing then commenting on who has had a fast split while saying whats happening on screen. Very good.

Brundle says a lot more these days, thank the lord.

I really enjoyed Chandoks commentary too. Had both the drivers point of view,good at explaining the technical aspect of the cars and above all a sense of humour. I was laughing as he was talking about Senna putting the kettle on and making the tea for the commentary team as he'd feck all else to do!:D

frostie500

Button and Hamilton continue to run their different configurations in FP3. The session was really close with only two tenths splitting the top five(Webber lost time after a failure). Quali could be one of the best of the season!

Namabillion

Me thinks that Alonso will get pole.

Ghost Train

frostie500 wrote: »

Button and Hamilton continue to run their different configurations in FP3. The session was really close with only two tenths splitting the top five(Webber lost time after a failure). Quali could be one of the best of the season!

Really surprised with Buttons choice to stick with that set up

Maybe it will show to be the right choice for the race but so far has looked slower with less top speed.

Ferrari looking good so far

I'd say Hamilton for pole

johnnysmack

Excellant from alonso

amacachi

G'wan the Button! Alonso on pole, should be good into turn 1 tomorrow!

Ghost Train

Looks like I was wrong on both counts

Great lap from Alonso

Button well ahead of Hamilton

Good grid order for the championship

amacachi

Bit of silliness from Hamilton and Webber in the first corner tomorrow would be lovely. :pac:

Namabillion

Namabillion wrote: »

Me thinks that Alonso will get pole.

Just as I predicted

lord lucan

Already looking forward to the run down to the first chicane!:)

f1dan

I was surprised Sutil didn't make it to Q3, I would have thought that Monza would have suited the car more than Spa

EvilMonkey

Surprised Button is ahead of Hamilton, it will be interesting to see who has the better race strategy.

johnnysmack

EvilMonkey wrote: »

Surprised Button is ahead of Hamilton, it will be interesting to see who has the better race strategy.

Looks like Button at minute. Hamilton was complaining of no grip and more or less admitted button went for the right set up.

Myrddin

johnnysmack wrote: »

Karem Chandok is excellant as a commentator. Very knowledgeable about past and present issues and technical things going on. Way better then anyone they have commentating on saturday or sunday.

If he doesnt get his race seat back then fire Brundle and get Chandok.

Agreed re his commentating, he's been brilliant on 5Live the last few races...although I pity the chap at the moment, it's not as if Yamamoto has been lighting up the boards.

But to fire Brundle? Brundle is the main man in the box, I think he's excellent. His grid-walks can be hillarious sometimes too.

amacachi wrote: »

Fire Brundle?

Exactly.

thewheel2.0

EnterNow wrote: »

Agreed re his commentating, he's been brilliant on 5Live the last few races...although I pity the chap at the moment, it's not as if Yamamoto has been lighting up the boards.

But to fire Brundle? Brundle is the main man in the box, I think he's excellent. His grid-walks can be hillarious sometimes too.



Exactly.

I hope Croft and Davidson don't get split up they have great chemistry on the mic. Legard has been riding on his experience and not his quality for some time now. I was very surprised to see him renewed for this year!

Woden

Was that the new F1 game the guys where playing there?

Brundle gas on the grid there grabbing Massa

f1dan

Woden wrote: »

Was that the new F1 game the guys where playing there?

Yes it was

lord lucan

Woden wrote: »

Was that the new F1 game the guys where playing there?

Brundle gas on the grid there grabbing Massa

It certainly looked like the new game. Looks savage!

amacachi

If there's no safety car then that's a brilliant start for the championship.

amacca

what a start.

button away... hamilton out..this is shaping up nicely for the rest of the championship

lord lucan

Lol @ Hamilton!:D:D

Ghost Train

bit silly from hamilton, was never going to be enough space, trying to do it all on the first lap

good start from button though