Round 14: Italian Grand Prix

naughto

what happened in the pits was there a crash.button will be doing well to pass
also wth sooooooo much wing on

thewheel2.0

Whats with the lack of On-board shots? (except on replays)

amacachi

naughto wrote: »

what happened in the pits was there a crash.button will be doing well to pass
also wth sooooooo much wing on

Yamamoto drove off while someone was still fiddling with the car.



Not just this weekend but it really annoys me how much leeway is given to cars for cutting chicanes once they're already in the lead. They may not "gain time" but in reality they are in that they've ****ed up and not lost any time or a position.

amacachi

thewheel2.0 wrote: »

Whats with the lack of On-board shots? (except on replays)

Just not a lot to look at I imagine, no great corners to experience.

thewheel2.0

amacachi wrote: »

Just not a lot to look at I imagine, no great corners to experience.

I guess but still I love the sense of speed it gives in a straight line.

amacachi

thewheel2.0 wrote: »

I guess but still I love the sense of speed it gives in a straight line.

Fair enough, I imagine the director thinks you're in the minority. :pac:

lord lucan

amacachi wrote: »

Not just this weekend but it really annoys me how much leeway is given to cars for cutting chicanes once they're already in the lead. They may not "gain time" but in reality they are in that they've ****ed up and not lost any time or a position.

A set of spikes in the escape road across the chicane would sort that out!

amacachi

lord lucan wrote: »

A set of spikes in the escape road across the chicane would sort that out!

Even the way it was last year would do. I was annoyed on Friday when I saw the shortcut but thought "Ah well, at least they might enforce it more." Turned out to not be the case.

lord lucan

Fair play Webber,great driving!

amacachi

Alonso cutting the chicane there, should be a drivethrough.

lord lucan

amacachi wrote: »

Even the way it was last year would do. I was annoyed on Friday when I saw the shortcut but thought "Ah well, at least they might enforce it more." Turned out to not be the case.

The large rumble strips were great because they were a great reason NOT to cut the chicane!

amacachi

lord lucan wrote: »

The large rumble strips were great because they were a great reason NOT to cut the chicane!

Even they weren't enough IMO though. Just showed Alonso cutting across similar rumble strips and it made no difference on the timing.

Only reason RB got Vettel ahead of Webber is because EJ rumble them.

high heels

Going to have to turn off now... I cant take the jumping about that is about to happen...

amacachi

Anyone else think the lovely girls lining the corridors after the race have been a letdown pretty much since they got back from Asia? :pac:

lord lucan

amacachi wrote: »

Anyone else think the lovely girls lining the corridors after the race have been a letdown pretty much since they got back from Asia? :pac:

I'm only interested in the racing!:p

amacca

amacachi wrote: »

Anyone else think the lovely girls lining the corridors after the race have been a letdown pretty much since they got back from Asia? :pac:

well they could show a bit more leg.....perhaps lower cut tops....maybe they could participate in the podium celebrations also....shower each other with expensive champagne....


back in a while!

thewheel2.0

amacachi wrote: »

Anyone else think the lovely girls lining the corridors after the race have been a letdown pretty much since they got back from Asia? :pac:

Agreed. Lots of sore heads in Italy tomorrow. Redbull did well to get Vettel out in the end. Overall good race!

amacachi

LIGHTNING wrote: »

You should see the "girls" you see at the racing events here in Ireland. You can barely look at them

Someone's been on a sexual harassment awareness course. :pac:

Grim.

LIGHTNING wrote: »

You should see the "girls" you see at the racing events here in Ireland. You can barely look at them

hahaha

amacachi

Oh, forgot about Korea, the lovely girls there should be top notch. ^_^

Actually thought the standings would've closed up more than they did today, a repeat result next time out will do nicely. :pac:

amacca

what a fantastic world championship.....I remember fantastic races in the past...fantastic battles...but never a championship with so many contenders with a realistic chance at the title not unduly handicapped by their cars....hope revenues reflect this and fia/ecclestone do their utmost for this trend to continue

amacachi

amacca wrote: »

what a fantastic world championship.....I remember fantastic races in the past...fantastic battles...but never a championship with so many contenders with a realistic chance at the title not unduly handicapped by their cars....hope revenues reflect this and fia/ecclestone do their utmost for this trend to continue

TBH I hope they just keep out of it and leave the rules alone. In 2008 the cars were all within 2 seconds for pretty much the whole season which was pretty cool. The rules changes for last year shook things up but it was still pretty close for most the year. This year is more strung out outside the top 10 if anything. I have a feeling with the current regs it'll all tighten up over a couple of years since there's a lot less freedom in the rules. Things like f-ducts and blown diffusers shows how hard it is to innovate and make a difference under the current regs.

EvilMonkey

Great result for the championship. Wish Massa could have put Button under a bit more pressure after the stops. Ferrari brought Massa in just in time to make sure he didn't take the lead.

PJTierney

Great first lap, but the race was a little dull after that. Fair play to Jenson for doing as well as he did.

amacachi

EvilMonkey wrote: »

Great result for the championship. Wish Massa could have put Button under a bit more pressure after the stops. Ferrari brought Massa in just in time to make sure he didn't take the lead.

Wonder what the fine will be this time. :pac:

Ghost Train

F1 forum kind of poor today

EvilMonkey

Ghost Train wrote: »

F1 forum kind of poor today

Yeah it was crap i turned it off

Quick look at Yamamoto before FOM take it down

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF7Yg2zJcpc

Looks like the lollipop man lifted but how did he not see the mechanic in the cockpit. Amateur hour stuff from HRT

Ghost Train

Poor guy, hopefully no serious injuries

In defense of the driver it looks like it was just behind him in the cockpit where the guy was working, so hard to see

In defense of the lollipop man, maybe he wasn't told they were going to look at the cockpit but still his mistake

Communication break down somewhere along the line for this to happen

Myrddin

candlelover wrote: »

Rookie mistake from Hamilton proving yet again he does not live up to the hype!:rolleyes: at least now Button has a chance of winning, the team will have put him first now!

Hype? Missed out on becoming the World Champion in his rookie year in F1 by 1 point, won the World Championship by 1 point in his second year in an F1 car. A dreadful start to his third season, he turned it around about halfway through when the cars development caught up, eventually getting a few wins. And was leading the championship until today in his 4th season - falling to 2nd by five points. I don't care if your a Hamilton fan or not, but as an F1 fan, nobody can deny that's damned impressive.

LIGHTNING wrote: »

*cough team orders *

Eddie? I guess the Vettel pitstop pretty much nulifies the theory. Sure it's only a €100k now to issue a covert order - much simpler.

thewheel2.0 wrote: »

Wish I didn't have to miss that but I'm on 5 live cause of dull Legard.

Ah the Brundle man makes up for it, he's a Legard...sorry a legend

amacachi wrote: »

Fair enough, I imagine the director thinks you're in the minority. :pac:

Agreed, I was only saying today that you only get a proper sense of speed on the big panned out helicopter shots, where at least there's some perspective. The run up to the parabolica and the start/finish straights look HUGE, only realised it when compared to the surrounding scenery. The pace Button & Alonso were doing on the straights looked immense. But the in-car shots give no perspective really, it's difficult to imagine their doing high speeds through corners with that shot.

Although I must say, from looking at Classic F1, there was an old shot which isn't/can't be done anymore which looked seriosuly good. It was either the 5 o'clock or the 7 o'clock position behind the drivers helmet, but on the same height & gave a far superior tv camera position than the air-intake cams today.

high heels wrote: »

Going to have to turn off now... I cant take the jumping about that is about to happen...

Once I don't have to see that finger, I don't care who wins :pac:

Good race today. I thought the Button & Alonso battle made great viewing. It turns out the battle was won in the pit-lane, & the following half a lap. Bit gutted for Hamilton, but I think he'd be the first to agree with everyone that it was his fault. I like that about him, he's no Alonso thats for sure.

I thought Rosberg had a good race, and despite the cross-cutting, I thought the Hulk did well in terms of quali & race position against the bigger boys. The Championship race is epic this year, can you imagine the tension when there's only 1 or 2 races left? It will be all or nothing for some of them. The points system I think this year worked out brilliant.

Can someone confirm if Kers is back next year? Is it Kers & a mixture of a moveable wing?

I also heard something during FP about 'ground-effect' (I think that's what is was), and a move to 1.6L Turbo engines for 2013??

amacachi

EnterNow wrote: »

Although I must say, from looking at Classic F1, there was an old shot which isn't/can't be done anymore which looked seriosuly good. It was either the 5 o'clock or the 7 o'clock position behind the drivers helmet, but on the same height & gave a far superior tv camera position than the air-intake cams today.

They used it a couple of time til at least two years ago and I could swear I've seen it last year and this year, depends on the teams.

Myrddin

amacachi wrote: »

They used it a couple of time til at least two years ago and I could swear I've seen it last year and this year, depends on the teams.

Really? I don't recall having seen it used in more modern times. I just figured it was because of the removeable shroud to allow driver entrance/exit to the car was kinda in place of where the camera used to be.

Interesing, I'll have a browse through youtube of more recent in-car shots and see can I find it.

amacachi

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxjfN4gV7Ts&feature=related
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMYQpA_pZPI

Not from races though. I'm certain I saw it used a couple of times last year on a Ferrari though.

Myrddin

amacachi wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxjfN4gV7Ts&feature=related
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMYQpA_pZPI

Not from races though. I'm certain I saw it used a couple of times last year on a Ferrari though.

That Top Gear one is the one for sure, something so raw & more involved than the one we see today. Cheers for that The one from Loeb's drive isn't quite it, but that could be due to that shroud I was on about earlier, blocking half the shot. From looking at the TG one, would the mounting points and camera position have an adverse affect on the aero' flow? The camera seems to be in the middle of nowhere, so there must be a mounting arm or something somewhere...

LIGHTNING wrote: »

I have seen that camera shot being used in recent times, I think on a Ferrari. Next season will see the banning of F-ducts and the return of Kers. I think the ground effect and movable wings cars are set for 2013.

Can you tell a noob what ground effect is? And I presume the moveable wing will offer a tradeoff between less drag/higher speed and higher grip/lower speed. Although I also heard a comment about only being able to switch the wing, when within a certian distance to the next car is that true? Maybe I should create an F1 Noob Tech Thread

amacachi

EnterNow wrote: »

That Top Gear one is the one for sure, something so raw & more involved than the one we see today. Cheers for that The one from Loeb's drive isn't quite it, but that could be due to that shroud I was on about earlier, blocking half the shot. From looking at the TG one, would the mounting points and camera position have an adverse affect on the aero' flow? The camera seems to be in the middle of nowhere, so there must be a mounting arm or something somewhere...

The Loeb one is further back than usual I think. The one from TG seems to be where the ones on the Ferraris were, probably in a panel gap or something along those lines.

Can you tell a noob what ground effect is? And I presume the moveable wing will offer a tradeoff between less drag/higher speed and higher grip/lower speed. Although I also heard a comment about only being able to switch the wing, when within a certian distance to the next car is that true? Maybe I should create an F1 Noob Tech Thread

Yeah they're talking about only allowing less drag when within a certain distance of the car in front. Very silly IMO.

Ground effect is basically downforce creating by moulding the floor of the car in a certain way. It's almost like the whole length of the floor acts as one massive diffuser. They usually need something like side skirts to keep the airflow going straight under the car through the bends. Basically ya want to "evacuate" the air from under the car, so that the atmospheric pressure has a greater effect of pushing the car into the ground. Obviously there's a lot more to getting the best out if it but that's the basic idea AFAIK.
EDIT: In a way I suppose it isn't so much creating downforce as it's reducing "upforce", if such a thing exists or if that makes any sense to anyone except me. :pac:

Myrddin

amacachi wrote: »

EDIT: In a way I suppose it isn't so much creating downforce as it's reducing "upforce", if such a thing exists or if that makes any sense to anyone except me. :pac:

I get you, it's the steam & 7up can experiment from physics class but on an F1 car :pac: So why was ground-effect done away with? Are there inherent dangers to it? Sounds like it's a massive boost in downforce...

amacachi

EnterNow wrote: »

I get you, it's the steam & 7up can experiment from physics class but on an F1 car :pac: So why was ground-effect done away with? Are there inherent dangers to it? Sounds like it's a massive boost in downforce...

Usual things, the cars were getting too fast and there were apparently concerns about stability, the cars were horribly twitchy. Also and breakages at all could leave it very ineffective.

PJTierney

Regarding the HRT incident, I think a possible solution for 2011 would be to have pit crew wear outfits that contrast with the car's colour (white outfits when working on black car for example). That way it would be easier to see everybody before raising the lollipop.

Also, anybody catch Button's onboard coverage from BBC today? There was one camera fixed under the car, looking backwards under the body, an amazing shot. Can't find a clip, but those who remember it will know what I'm on about.

Ghost Train

I see HRT picked up a 20000$ fine

Don't think different colour overalls would work because of the importance of using sponsor and team colours

FIA would probably prefer something more high tech like fitting sensors to the mechanics which prevent the car from moving off if the mechanics are too close

Myrddin

PJTierney wrote: »

Regarding the HRT incident, I think a possible solution for 2011 would be to have pit crew wear outfits that contrast with the car's colour (white outfits when working on black car for example).

Didn't Brundle say that the pit crew member was fiddling with something behind Yamamotos helmet that connects to the bulkhead? If that's true, he could have been working in the nude & the driver still wouldn't have seen him.

It was an accident, the car being released in this case is what should be being looked at, not overall colours.

Cookie_Monster

EnterNow wrote: »

Didn't Brundle say that the pit crew member was fiddling with something behind Yamamotos helmet that connects to the bulkhead? If that's true, he could have been working in the nude & the driver still wouldn't have seen him.

It was an accident, the car being released in this case is what should be being looked at, not overall colours.

yeah but the lollipop man should have seen him, mistake on his part, not the drivers, and a pretty bad one at that.

Myrddin

EnterNow wrote: »

Didn't Brundle say that the pit crew member was fiddling with something behind Yamamotos helmet that connects to the bulkhead? If that's true, he could have been working in the nude & the driver still wouldn't have seen him.

It was an accident, the car being released in this case is what should be being looked at, not overall colours.

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

yeah but the lollipop man should have seen him, mistake on his part, not the drivers, and a pretty bad one at that.

That's what I meant about the car being released, that was the error.

Edit - just watched the video of it there, looked rough enough the poor chap. Could have been a lot worse, he was lucky. There's accidents and then there are avoideable accidents, that lolly pop man should be seriously disciplined or worse...that was wreckless to say the least.

frostie500

Watched the replay of Yamamoto's stop and just cant understand what the lollipop man was doing, its not as if HRT are in a battle for points. A release such as that was just a situation that never should have arisen.

For anyone interested, five things I think following Monza. I decided to do a post about what I think are some of the important things that occurred/came to light from the weekend, I'm interested in knowing what you all think of it, and if I should bother doing it each weekend!, so feedback is more than welcome!

amacachi

Parabolica is a right turn. :pac:

1. Agree, they had no choice because it shouldn't have gone to them in the first place.
2. Gascoyne is one of the best people they could have at Lotus IMO.
3. He'll get over it.
4. It's a particular kind of tension needed really. Had Button simply been taking it easy because there was no point in driving away from Alonso then it wouldn't have been so enjoyable, it was the fact that we knew the driver behind was most likely the faster of the two.
5. Him or Alonso I'd've said.

Myrddin

frostie500 wrote: »

Watched the replay of Yamamoto's stop and just cant understand what the lollipop man was doing, its not as if HRT are in a battle for points. A release such as that was just a situation that never should have arisen.

For anyone interested, five things I think following Monza. I decided to do a post about what I think are some of the important things that occurred/came to light from the weekend, I'm interested in knowing what you all think of it, and if I should bother doing it each weekend!, so feedback is more than welcome!

I think you should definitely keep that up, nicely done man. Makes a great read, & it's very well written :cool:

here.from.day.1

Has anybody got a working link for the HRT pitlane incident? They keep getting removed!

frostie500

amacachi wrote: »

Parabolica is a right turn. :pac:

Some day I'll figure out the difference!

here.from.day.1 wrote: »

Has anybody got a working link for the HRT pitlane incident? They keep getting removed!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF7Yg2zJcpc

johnnysmack

Jesus he got some knock. Poor b**tard

mickdw

frostie500 wrote: »

For anyone interested, five things I think following Monza. I decided to do a post about what I think are some of the important things that occurred/came to light from the weekend, I'm interested in knowing what you all think of it, and if I should bother doing it each weekend!, so feedback is more than welcome!

A good read & very valid points. Your opinion on Lotus is very close to what I was thinking myself & the renault hookup should certainly provide them with a useful package given the kers comeback etc. If they can buy in some good people / knowledge re up to date aero, they will take a good leap forward. Im not sure about Kovalainins attitude though. He seems to think he is a bit too good for Lotus and will only hang around if great things are happening. He had his chance at Maclaren & couldnt get it done so I dont know where he hopes to go with his career.

G-Money

Just got back from Monza last night about 10pm. Good weekend, I probably spent 1 or 2 days too long there. I could easily have made the Ryanair flight home at 10pm on the Sunday night but I err'd on the side of caution when booking originally. I also didn't head to the track on the Thursday and spent a while sightseeing around Bergamo. If I was going again next year though and the flights were the same time, I'd fly over Thursday night and back Sunday night.

Good race, I'm going to watch the replays of Qualifying and the Race on the BBC iPlayer shortly to see what else happened. It's a bit sickening the way the crowd boo'd Hamilton even when he was being interviewed on the driver's parade and then cheered when he went out. Had I not been surrounded by Alonso fans and Ferrari fans I would have boo'd him

Highlight of the weekend was definitely getting a pit and paddock tour by McLaren. They brought us into their pit garage, showed us around the back of it and the front and let us get pictures taken. We also did a paddock tour and spotted almost all of the drivers and a few team principles just walking past us, it was great. They also brought us into the McLaren brand centre and there was Lewis Hamilton's brother and Jenson Button's girlfriend sitting in front of us. Was fantastic.

Anyway, here's the obligatory race start video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-Is6iYbiDw

naughto

man there is some roar of them engines it gave me goose bumbs.
can i ask what the wekend package cost you i would love to get over to a race.