Letting my cats roam

DeadlyByDesign

Hey all

There is a bit of a debate going on in my household at the moment. We have 2 cats (have posted about them here before, rocky and balu). We currently live in the city (christchurch) and have kept them as house cats, mainly because of the feral population and the heavy traffic nearby.

At the end of the month we are moving to a more secluded estate away from the city. My OH says we should let them roam now as she reckons it is in there nature to hunt etc etc. I am on the other side of the fence saying that (a) I am afraid that they may not come back (b) they have lost in my opinion a lot of their wild instinct and may not be able to fend for themselves out there (c) there homing instinct may be gone as they have never used it which causes me to worry about (a).

Can some one in the know advise please.

seamus

The life expectancy of a roaming cat is around 3 or four times shorter than that of a house cat, primarily because roaming cats are at risk from traffic, dogs, other animals and exposure to illness from other cats (particularly feral ones).

They are still at risk in a quiet estate in the suburbs - possibly moreso because quieter roads may encourage the cat to be less careful and you're more likely to have roaming dogs. I wouldn't worry too much about the cats "forgetting" their hunting and tracking instincts though. They will still have retained most of these through play.

I'm going to put it to you another way: My wife's family have had four or five cats at this stage. All of the cats were allowed to "roam" during the day and were kept in during the night. In reality, the cats hang around the house during the day and sleep most of that time. All of these cats have died of natural causes.

On the other hand, I can tell you of two or three people I know who've had a number of cats themselves and who put the cat out overnight. Not one of them has had a cat die of natural causes.

mymo

Would you consider fencing your new garden and making it safe for the cats to use?
Its not that hard, high fences(6ft or so) with about 2ft or so of something like avery wire on top, angled in at about 45 degrees. Then just make sure theres no table or garden furniture they could jump from to get over the fence.
Or you could create a run in one section of the garden, linked to a window so they can enjoy the fresh air but be safe.

DeadlyByDesign

There is a fence in the garden already pretty much like that. But I am of the opinion if a cat wants to get out, it will get out. We would bring them in over night. I don't know.... I am still not 100% comfortable doing iy ya know?

kylith

Basically people who have cats that are allowed to roam will tell you to let them roam, whereas people who have indoor cats, and people who don't have cats will generally tell you to keep them in for everyone's comfort and safety.

mymo

Then how about the run?
A timber frame, with avery wire around the sides and on the top. You can fix it to the house with a window opening into it, so you can leave the window open for access, and close it when it suits you. A friend of mine has done this and hinged it on one side so she can open it to cut the grass. She also added some pot plants and paving slabs near the house, and some plastic corrigated sheets on top to give shelter from the rain, and shelves at different heights for the cats to sun themselves.
They love it and are completely safe, its about 8ft wide by 10 or 12ft long, but you could make it as big or small as you like.

Graces7

seamus wrote: »

The life expectancy of a roaming cat is around 3 or four times shorter than that of a house cat, primarily because roaming cats are at risk from traffic, dogs, other animals and exposure to illness from other cats (particularly feral ones).

They are still at risk in a quiet estate in the suburbs - possibly moreso because quieter roads may encourage the cat to be less careful and you're more likely to have roaming dogs. I wouldn't worry too much about the cats "forgetting" their hunting and tracking instincts though. They will still have retained most of these through play.

I'm going to put it to you another way: My wife's family have had four or five cats at this stage. All of the cats were allowed to "roam" during the day and were kept in during the night. In reality, the cats hang around the house during the day and sleep most of that time. All of these cats have died of natural causes.

On the other hand, I can tell you of two or three people I know who've had a number of cats themselves and who put the cat out overnight. Not one of them has had a cat die of natural causes.

seamus; I seem to remember replying to you on this before; simply my long experince does not tally with these statistics... My free range cats all die of natural causes. All but maybe one.

Statistics are just that.

But then we live and have lived in very rural areas. Although there are roads now and have been for our last three houses.

OP; we always ( and we have had five moves in as many years) release our cats on arrival and hey come in for food a short while after that. My reasoning is that they attach to us rather than to the place I worried the first time but since am fine with it. This time we had a 300 mile car journey....they were delighted to be free but came in and found my bed very fast indeed.

It is up to you entirely; I have found that my cats are healthier and happier and live longer since we have let them roam.

If I lived in a city however, I would hesitate to release them.

Mine are road savvy though.

Feargal as Luimneach

I let my cat out only when i'm at home and only during daylight. He's a black cat so it would be dangerous leaving him out in the dark (hard to see him if somebody was driving on the road). I call him in around a half an hour before dark and he comes running back. He's never gone for more than an hour thankfully. A cat will also kill less birds if he's not allowed out at night.

If your moving to a new place make sure and leave them in the new house for at least a month till they learn that this is their new home. If you let them out straight away they could stray since they would have no affinity for the house.

If you cats have never been out they might not know the mortal dangers of dogs. You should bring somebodies dog around to scare them so they will be cautious of dogs in the future.

I would prefer if I could keep him indoors for safety sake the whole time, but he loves going outside

Graces7

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

I let my cat out only when i'm at home and only during daylight. He's a black cat so it would be dangerous leaving him out in the dark (hard to see him if somebody was driving on the road). I call him in around a half an hour before dark and he comes running back. He's never gone for more than an hour thankfully. A cat will also kill less birds if he's not allowed out at night.

If your moving to a new place make sure and leave them in the new house for at least a month till they learn that this is their new home. If you let them out straight away they could stray since they would have no affinity for the house.

If you cats have never been out they might not know the mortal dangers of dogs. You should bring somebodies dog around to scare them so they will be cautious of dogs in the future.

I would prefer if I could keep him indoors for safety sake the whole time, but he loves going outside

Not true; see my earlier post. We have moved five times in five years and always let the cats out as soon as we arrive. It is people they have affinity for in our experience. They come back after a very short while, for food and our company.

Zapperzy

Graces7 wrote: »

Not true; see my earlier post. We have moved five times in five years and always let the cats out as soon as we arrive. It is people they have affinity for in our experience. They come back after a very short while, for food and our company.

That might be your experience with your cats but on the whole keeping them inside for a few weeks before releasing them is the safest option. When a friend of mine moved house she released her cats straight away and the next day both of them were back at the old house, thankfully the old house was just a few minutes down the road but if it were further would the cats have travelled further. Theres plenty of reports on the internet of re-homed cats travelling across vast distances to go back to their old owners.

morganafay

I let my cats roam.

But if they're used to being indoors all their lives, I wouldn't let them out personally. They just wouldn't be used to it.

Last year I moved home to the countryside from Dublin and let my "Dublin cat" live outside, after living in an apartment all his life. He was fine and loved being outside with the other cats, but after 4 months he went missing. I don't know what happened, and dunno if it was because he wasn't used to the road, and finding his way home, etc. . . . but I had no choice but to let him out.

Well it's really up to you, if you think it is quite a safe area, then maybe start letting them out for a short time everyday. I do think cats have a better quality of life if they can go outside, but often a shorter life . . .

Galway K9

Just curious, why do people walk dogs and not cats even when they need exercise?

The Sweeper

Restrict your cats' roaming. The idea that 'if they want out, they'll get out' - the first time you release your cats into your yard, they'll hang very near the house out of nervousness. After a few weeks, they may test the fences to get out. Most cats, after a number of failed attempts, simply give up. It depends on the cat, but usually they're very happy to stay in your yard, rolling in the grass, sniffing around the soil, so on. Sink a timber pole into the ground in the garden, like the world's biggest bird table - they'll enjoy climbing that and sitting on top, as long as they can't get to the wall from the table-top.

If you allow your cat to free-range, the fact is you take a risk and you relinquish all control of the cat's environment. Literally anything could happen to it, and you have no control over the outcome.

If you want peace of mind, a healthy, happy cat, happy neighbours and a reduction in risk, cat-proof your garden fences.

And just remember, every person posting 'I let my cats out' also has a story that 'but one of them never came home'.

Shenshen

seamus wrote: »

The life expectancy of a roaming cat is around 3 or four times shorter than that of a house cat, primarily because roaming cats are at risk from traffic, dogs, other animals and exposure to illness from other cats (particularly feral ones).

They are still at risk in a quiet estate in the suburbs - possibly moreso because quieter roads may encourage the cat to be less careful and you're more likely to have roaming dogs. I wouldn't worry too much about the cats "forgetting" their hunting and tracking instincts though. They will still have retained most of these through play.

I'm going to put it to you another way: My wife's family have had four or five cats at this stage. All of the cats were allowed to "roam" during the day and were kept in during the night. In reality, the cats hang around the house during the day and sleep most of that time. All of these cats have died of natural causes.

On the other hand, I can tell you of two or three people I know who've had a number of cats themselves and who put the cat out overnight. Not one of them has had a cat die of natural causes.

^^ This, pretty much.

We've got two cats, both of us brought one into the marriage. My husband's cat is a long-haired house tiger, she's never been outside in her life since he was living in London when he first got her, and until now never lived anywhere that would have been reasonably safe for a cat to roam around in.

Mine, on the other hand, was used to going outdoors when I first got her from the ISPCA, and since I had never before had a stay-at-home cat the thought of keeping her inside never really occured to me.
I do bring her inside every night, though. She has spent the occasional night outside when she just didn't show up before we went to bed, but in total I guess those were around 4 or 5 nights in the 5 years I've had her now.

I think it is important to make sure that the area where you live is reasonably safe, though. No straight roads inviting people to speed like maniacs, no dog running around unsupervised all day long, no building sites where she could get trapped...
If they've never been outside, they may well be a little timid about it anyway. Try and make the first time to let them out a miserably rainy day (there should be lots to choose from soon enough), don't feed them beforehand, and be outside, but by the door, with them.
Call them back once you think they've had enough and give them food. It's a pretty good way for them not to get over-excited about the great outdoors

Shenshen

The Sweeper wrote: »

And just remember, every person posting 'I let my cats out' also has a story that 'but one of them never came home'.

Er... no...?
My family had cats for as long as I can think of, and not one of them ever not came back.

Graces7

Zapperzy wrote: »

That might be your experience with your cats but on the whole keeping them inside for a few weeks before releasing them is the safest option. When a friend of mine moved house she released her cats straight away and the next day both of them were back at the old house, thankfully the old house was just a few minutes down the road but if it were further would the cats have travelled further. Theres plenty of reports on the internet of re-homed cats travelling across vast distances to go back to their old owners.

Depends maybe on the cat and the relationship with the owner; mine are rescues, hand raised.

And returning to previous owners is a different case altogether; the OP is speaking of her own cats.

Never a problem in all my years. Even when the old house was very near.

Mine would go ape if I tried to keep them in like that; the three days we had to do that before moved were terrible. They stopped eating they were so miserable. It had to be done to make sure they were in to be transported.

They get released from the carry cage as soon as it is quiet and a wee while later they are back to me for food.

And "several weeks" is excessive; what do others do please?

adser53

This is a debate thats come up before and as a non-cat owner I'd just like to add my opinion. I live in a new estate in Portlaoise that has very few roaming dogs but a LOT of cats and frankly I think they're a nuisance. In the last year I've found 2 cats knocked down beside my house and people drive carefully. My neighbour also had their cat knocked down and killed. Another cat badly scratched a child (i don't know the circumstances to this though) and there was uproar. Other neighbours have reported cats coming into their gardens to have kittens etc. Now none of these are feral, just left out to roam. Every house has a flower bed out the front and cats are always defecating in them which is another problem. I also have dogs in my garden that were constantly teased by cats and they go mad barking at them so I was concerned my neighbours would complain.
The gist of my post is that not everyone appreciates roaming cats and they can be a nuisance. In the same way that responsible dog owners keep their dogs under control (please note I said responsible) I think cat owners should also be responsible and take into consideration their neighbours aswell as their cats safety. In some countries roaming cats are illegal afaik and treated like dogs so I personally think if you want to let your cat out, cat proof the fence in your garden. Im not having a go at anyone, just giving the OP a different perspective.

sambuka41

OP as your guys have been indoors I would keep them in. My guy was a stray that i rescued and he gets very aggressive if he's kept in. Im reducing the time he's out in the hope of getting him in altogether.

My guy is lovely with me but very grumpy with other cats,he's cost me thousands in vet bills from his fighting. keep them in if you can!!!

Nino Brown

adser53 wrote: »

This is a debate thats come up before and as a non-cat owner I'd just like to add my opinion. I live in a new estate in Portlaoise that has very few roaming dogs but a LOT of cats and frankly I think they're a nuisance. In the last year I've found 2 cats knocked down beside my house and people drive carefully. My neighbour also had their cat knocked down and killed. Another cat badly scratched a child (i don't know the circumstances to this though) and there was uproar. Other neighbours have reported cats coming into their gardens to have kittens etc. Now none of these are feral, just left out to roam. Every house has a flower bed out the front and cats are always defecating in them which is another problem. I also have dogs in my garden that were constantly teased by cats and they go mad barking at them so I was concerned my neighbours would complain.
The gist of my post is that not everyone appreciates roaming cats and they can be a nuisance. In the same way that responsible dog owners keep their dogs under control (please note I said responsible) I think cat owners should also be responsible and take into consideration their neighbours aswell as their cats safety. In some countries roaming cats are illegal afaik and treated like dogs so I personally think if you want to let your cat out, cat proof the fence in your garden. Im not having a go at anyone, just giving the OP a different perspective.

Thats so true, I have the same problem with my neighbour's cats coming into my garden annoying my dog. My dog has a radio collar on, and the cats know he can only go so close to the fence, so they sit out of range and tease him. If my dog was in defecating on my neighbour's lawn there would be war, I don't understand why people think its okay for cats to roam and not dogs. Everybody has the right to have a pet, but it shouldn't impose on somebody else. NO pet should out of its owners control for any period of time. The ironic thing is, if my dog does catch one of the neighbours cats, he will kill it, and they'll be on my doorstep complaining about the dog.

Graces7

Nino Brown wrote: »

Thats so true, I have the same problem with my neighbour's cats coming into my garden annoying my dog. My dog has a radio collar on, and the cats know he can only go so close to the fence, so they sit out of range and tease him. If my dog was in defecating on my neighbour's lawn there would be war, I don't understand why people think its okay for cats to roam and not dogs. Everybody has the right to have a pet, but it shouldn't impose on somebody else. NO pet should out of its owners control for any period of time. The ironic thing is, if my dog does catch one of the neighbours cats, he will kill it, and they'll be on my doorstep complaining about the dog.

We hear you.. if we were in a town situation, the cats would not be out; period. For the reasons you so clearly state in the last two posts.

We are in a very rural situation with no immediate neighbours.

Nino Brown

Graces7 wrote: »

We hear you.. if we were in a town situation, the cats would not be out; period. For the reasons you so clearly state in the last two posts.

We are in a very rural situation with no immediate neighbours.

In that case maybe you could try letting the cat out and see how far it goes. I have a feeling it wont go far. It may not feel comfortable going too far away from you when it's unsure of its surroundings. That was my experience with dogs anyway. They're just as worried about getting lost as we are about losing them. I don't know much about cats though so just keep an eye on it.

adser53

Graces7 wrote: »

We hear you.. if we were in a town situation, the cats would not be out; period. For the reasons you so clearly state in the last two posts.

We are in a very rural situation with no immediate neighbours.

I completely agree that the situations are very different. When this was last discussed, some cat owners felt that "you can't have rules for one place and not another" and refused to concede the point.

Having grown up in a rural area, my experience was that whatever you did on your property in the countryside is your own business. Dogs and cats roamed free and apart from the odd dog worrying livestock, no one cared. But when you live in an estate, it's a completely different world and you have to take your neighbours into consideration (along with the increased risk to your cat). In fact there are a few feral cats up around my parents house and everyones glad of them for keeping the rats and mice away from their yards. But if this was an estate, people would view the cats themselves as vermin and a nuisance. In countryside it's a case of "out of sight-out of mind" but you don't have that luxury in a housing estate.

There have been a few arguements on here about this topic as a few cat owners felt they had the right to let their cats roam and couldn't accept that they had to consider other people when they let puss out. To me it's no different than me letting my dog off lead in a busy park where there are loads of people and kids about. It's not that they'd do anything, but some people aren't comforatble with that and you have to respect it...:)

cotton

I posted the following on another thread over 2 years ago........my feelings haven't changed since.

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055285794

Many moons ago, we became a multicat household overnight. We took in an old cat that was pregnant. She had 5 kittens & after long arguments, we decided to keep them all. We were so attached to them, as was the dog! Poor Suki was so old, she fed them but didn't so much else. It was down to our lab Ozzie to do the rest & he was a fantastic mother/father. So, Chester, Tilly, Soda, Milo & Maisie became permanent residents, along with our other oldie cat, Jasper. I was paranoid about letting them outside, I'd watched them being born, they were so precious to me. My oh thought it was cruel to keep them inside & we fought about it. So we came to a deal. They got out for an hour or so a day while I was there. We lived at the top of a quiet cul-de-sac, surely nothing could happen to them.
My oh went into hospital but I kept to my end of the bargain & let them out for that one hour, as he was right.
A day before their first birthday, Chester went missing. Out 10 minutes & that was that. I searched, cried, begged, screamed, but he was gone. He was found dead, poisoned. I cannot start to tell you how I felt.
But, it was cruel to keep cats in, Chessie was bad luck & they continued to get out for that one hour a day.
Then one day a month later, I let them out & remembered I'd forgotten something at the shops that Ray needed in hospital. I raced down & back in 2 minutes. There was a note in my door. Tiny Tilly had seen a dog on a lead, raced up to it as she loved dogs & it promptly broke her back. She was in Nutgrove & she'd no chance of survival. To tell a vet to put your young, beloved cat down is something I never, ever want anyone else to go through.
Ray then came home from hospital & that one hour seemed ok as he was there all the time, keeping an eye on them. We'd gotten 2 more dogs & another cat, Reuben, we had a great little family that all looked out for each other.
Then one day he was out with the dogs & Bonnie our rescue shep got knocked down whilst still on a lead by a drunken driver. It could have so easily been Ray. She survived but we vowed to keep the cats in all the time, it really shook us up & knew if it was one of our cats, it wouldn't have.
One of the kittens, now cats, Soda, was so so special to us. He was larger than life to say the least. He'd serious kidney stone problems & we'd spent a fortune on him, keeping him alive & getting him right. It's never right to have a favourite but we did. He was the boss & all the cats followed his every move. He was the dogs b****x, a cat in a million. He slept between us every night & was an absolute joy.
We were in the process of moving. We were moving to a much larger place but on a main road. We decided to build a cat run so the cats would be safe. Everything was about Soda, what he liked, what he didn't like as he was the one that led the others & everything boiled down to him. The layout of the house, everything was designed with him in mind. The builders loved us!
Then one night I was working late. I knew something was wrong & had to come home. I rang Ray on the way & said I'd a horrible feeling that something was wrong. He told me I was silly, everything was ok. I knew he was lying. I pressed him & he told me Soda & Reuben had gotten out under his wheelchair while he was letting the dogs out & he couldn't get them back in. I thought grand, I'll be home in a sec & I'll nab them.
I was driving up the hill to the house. I saw Soda chasing a butterfly. It was a lovely scene. Then a teenager in his suped up car overtook me & killed Soda on the spot. I picked up his beautiful little white body & went screaming into the house. We tried everything, but he was gone. I never, ever, ever want to feel that pain again as long as I live. I don't want anyone else here to ever go through that either.
What nearly finished us off were the other cats. They sat at the window & screamed constantly for him. Their brother & their boss was gone & they literally didn't know what to do without him. Those cries will stay with me forever. To this day, Milo is still not right because of it.
If I'd listened to kitten adoption & other rescues, my babies would be alive today. The others that thought they knew better, they didn't. If they did, I wouldn't have a massive hole in my heart today.
Indoor versus outdoor, I hope even one person reads this & saves their cats life & the agony we went through, it'll be worth it.

Majestic 12

Cotton, my heart goes out to you. That is such a sad story and you are quite amazing for taking in all of those animals.

Well if I ever had a doubt in my mind about letting our beloved 4 month old kittens out, I've well and truly made up my mind to ALWAYS keep them inside s house cats.

Thanks for the advice.

Shenshen

Graces7 wrote: »

And "several weeks" is excessive; what do others do please?

When I first got mine from the ISPCA, I kept her inside for about 3 weeks. I had been told 4, but she just wouldn't do it, she kept trying to escape out and got seriously miserable, going berserk every now and then tearing up and down the stairs and one time even climbing the curtains.

When I moved with her, I kept her inside for about a week or so. I knew she'd come back because by that time she obviously knew me, and knew where there would be food and a cuddle waiting for her

Graces7

Nino Brown wrote: »

In that case maybe you could try letting the cat out and see how far it goes. I have a feeling it wont go far. It may not feel comfortable going too far away from you when it's unsure of its surroundings. That was my experience with dogs anyway. They're just as worried about getting lost as we are about losing them. I don't know much about cats though so just keep an eye on it.

ah, please worry not.. all our cats have been free range for ten years or more. As long as we have lived in rural and isolated areas.

They do have an amazing range actually.... One used to visit a neighbour some distance away.. he is huge and long haired and they had never seen a cat of his size and gentleness. He used to beg food off them and eat with their cats.

They know every nook and cranny in every field. But they always come back to our bed.

last week I had not seen the big one for 24 hours and was getting twitchy... Then the dog started fussing at the hot press as if there were a mouse there.. I opened the door carefully and there was cat; fast asleep.. how he closed the door after himself remains a mystery.

Graces7

adser53 wrote: »

I completely agree that the situations are very different. When this was last discussed, some cat owners felt that "you can't have rules for one place and not another" and refused to concede the point.

I was remembering that and being careful....

Having grown up in a rural area, my experience was that whatever you did on your property in the countryside is your own business. Dogs and cats roamed free and apart from the odd dog worrying livestock, no one cared. But when you live in an estate, it's a completely different world and you have to take your neighbours into consideration (along with the increased risk to your cat). In fact there are a few feral cats up around my parents house and everyones glad of them for keeping the rats and mice away from their yards. But if this was an estate, people would view the cats themselves as vermin and a nuisance. In countryside it's a case of "out of sight-out of mind" but you don't have that luxury in a housing estate.

Exactly so; and well expressed. Thank you.

There have been a few arguements on here about this topic as a few cat owners felt they had the right to let their cats roam and couldn't accept that they had to consider other people when they let puss out. To me it's no different than me letting my dog off lead in a busy park where there are loads of people and kids about. It's not that they'd do anything, but some people aren't comforatble with that and you have to respect it...:)

Again, exactly so. When we lived in a village /town, the cats were always in. For their safety primarily I have to admit. It is always choice of course.. I cannot imagine our present two as indoor cats; they are creatures of tree and field and totally happy.