Griffiths Valuation Map

InchicoreDude

I have been reviewing Griffiths Valuation at the following link:

http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/

I was checking out the map associated with Griffiths Valuation, something I did not ever look at before.

Ok, I can see that the map is divided into townlands. And most townloands are then divided into "holdings"? What exactly are the townlands divided into? For example, Would it only put a red line around a holding that contained a house? Or would it put a red line around a field as well???

I have also noted that in some townlands, holdingd were not individually marked - Why would this be the case for some townlands and not others???

pinkypinky

I do not know the answer to this...I'll have a look at my various genealogy books when I'm home and see if John Grenham or someone knows. However, it's logical to presume that it wouldn't have to include a house because Landowner A might not necessarily have all his land in the same place.

InchicoreDude

However, it's logical to presume that it wouldn't have to include a house because Landowner A might not necessarily have all his land in the same place.

I thought Griffiths valuation was for landholders, rather than land owners?

It would be logical if a landholder didnt have all his land in one place; This would actually make sense with the part of the map that I am looking at. But then there are huge chunks on the map which are not specified as anything. I would imagine that these fields would have been used as something so why arent these fields marked in red???

pinkypinky

GV shows land lessors, yes, I just meant that you wouldn't necessarily be living on the land you worked, you'd just be paying the rates. I can't answer your question in detail.

shanew

one point to note is that the maps on AskAboutIreland are not the original maps but actually date from slightly later, and have had the property lines added in later. The original maps (which are in black and white) are available on Origins Network which is a subscription website - but is available free in the National Library.

A property boundary was simply a defined plot of land and could contain dwellings, other buildings such as a mill, stables or lime kilns, or just land.


Shane

pinkypinky

Grenham et al have nothing further useful on what a holding is defined as. The valuation office may be able to help you on this point.

InchicoreDude

one point to note is that the maps on AskAboutIreland are not the original maps but actually date from slightly later, and have had the property lines added in later. The original maps (which are in black and white) are available on Origins Network which is a subscription website - but is available free in the National Library.

A property boundary was simply a defined plot of land and could contain dwellings, other buildings such as a mill, stables or lime kilns, or just land.

I thought I remembered looking at a different map before alright. Any idea what year the map on AskAboutIreland would be from?

ok, if that is the definition of a property boundary, the question remaions why so much land is not outlined in the map... I can see from the map that some fields are marked (Where there would have been no house or anything else AFAIK) whereas other fields are unmarked. There has to be a reason for this...

Grenham et al have nothing further useful on what a holding is defined as. The valuation office may be able to help you on this point.

Thanks for checking Pinky, Much appreciated.

shanew

InchicoreDude wrote: »

I thought I remembered looking at a different map before alright. Any idea what year the map on AskAboutIreland would be from?

ok, if that is the definition of a property boundary, the question remaions why so much land is not outlined in the map... I can see from the map that some fields are marked (Where there would have been no house or anything else AFAIK) whereas other fields are unmarked. There has to be a reason for this...

they (AskABoutIreland) dont give a details on the date of their map, but some small differences (a few buildings, roads etc) have been located against the actual Griffith's maps. In most cases they appear to date to a few years later. The other point to remember is that the Griffith's survey date differed from area to area - between 1847 and 1864

Several possibilities that I can think of... common land, land including bogs, mountain etc., or areas that AskAboutIreland did not include the boundary lines for some reason.

can you give an example of a townland that you have seen this?


Shane

shanew

Out of curiosity I had a look at a few townlands on Griffiths where some of my ancestors lived, and haven't seen any unmarked areas on the AskAboutIreland maps. Some of the individual property boundaries extend around several field boundaries at once - so these are not separately marked, but are part of the same overall holding.

The valuation includes a summed total area for each townland, which on the cases I looked at, matched the area for the townland shown on the map. I suspect this figure may be included as a cross check, to confirm that no land in the townland had been left out of the valuation.

see approximate areas for each townland on the townland database at : www.seanruad.com


Shane

Greystoned

Hi Shanew, so you confirm that there are two versions of the Griffith val. maps? This is interesting for me - as I'm looking into how my town (Greystones) evolved around the time of the coming of the railway. The railway was built (or at least, trains started running in) 1855. The map on askAboutIreland shows the railway in place. Perhaps the older version shows the town just before it got built?

shanew

The maps on AskAboutIreland are later than the actual Griffith's maps.

The originals are available on OriginsNetwork website (subscription). I think this is still free to access in the National Library.

If you want good historic maps try the OSI website - http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/

The 6" maps are 1st edition OS and date from between the late 1820s and early 1840s. The 25" maps are from about 1890


Shane

not sign of a Railway in Greystones on the 6" map... see : http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,729440,712770,6,7

Greystoned

Thanks Shane, Yes - I'm used to using the OSI and the AskaboutIreland maps - what's new for me is that there are two versions of the Griffith maps. If you have a subscription, can you take a quick look to see if there is any change between the two versions for G'stones?

ALSO, are there other versions of OSI maps in existence? I have a feeling I saw an old town map (in British Lib, in London) of the town and I'm pretty sure it doesn't correspond to either version on the OSI website.

The OSI website is excellent - great to be able to browse through the old maps, but it doesn't associate an exact date with each map.

It would be good to have a complete list of all maps with dates and revisions with dates - just to know what's in existence. Thanks again for the info.

shanew

There are other editions of the maps, but not online. I'd say National Archives, National Library or a local library would be the place to try..

Some of the Co. Wicklow libraries have good collections


Shane