Eircom: New Line/Box thing

NeitherJohn

I have up to 8Mb NGB from eircom. I barely sync at 4Mb. Yesterday however, eircom knocked at my door to tell me they were upgrading/replacing my line, as they've done to other houses in my estate. Within half an hour, they had strung a new line from the pole to my house (about 10 or 15 metres). They also attached a box thing to my guttering. Does anybody know what it is? There's a picture below.

Incidentally, my broadband has slowed to just under 3.5 Mb. I asked the eircom lads if it would go back up to 4 and they said it would eventually! They said this new box/line should be making it go faster if anything.

Thanks for the help.

bigpaddy2004

Its just a bog standard junction box connecting your internal pair to your external pair.
If you take off the lid you should see how its connected in.

I would say you have lost a Db or 2 with the extra junction hence your slower speeds.

bigpaddy2004

I bet you had the old single pair going from your house to the pole and they changed this over to a twin pair.

NeitherJohn

bigpaddy2004 wrote: »

I bet you had the old single pair going from your house to the pole and they changed this over to a twin pair.

Yeah you can see the wire coming from my house is connected to the left hand side of the box! My SN margin and attenuation downstream have remained the same actually. The only difference is that my upstream SN went from 27 to 21db.

I assume then that my broadband won't go back up to 4!? What a farce! I'd have thought that the new line might have increased the speed a bit, even though the line from pole to exchange is probably still the old type.

Thanks for the info though!

lucernarian

NeitherJohn wrote: »

Yeah you can see the wire coming from my house is connected to the left hand side of the box! My SN margin and attenuation downstream have remained the same actually. The only difference is that my upstream SN went from 27 to 21db.

I assume then that my broadband won't go back up to 4!? What a farce! I'd have thought that the new line might have increased the speed a bit, even though the line from pole to exchange is probably still the old type.

Thanks for the info though!

What's the actual sync speed as reported by the modem, currently? And attenuation?

NeitherJohn

Downstream	               Upstream
Max Allowed Speed (kbps)	3776	                   512
SN Margin (dB)	                6.50	                   21.00
Line Attenuation (dB)	        34.00	                   19.50
CRC Errors	                   2	                     1

Before this box was put in, the sync was 4128/512. And the attenuation was identical. The only changes have been in the sync which changed to that in the box above, and the upstream SN margin went from 27 down to 21.

lucernarian

A line with your ok attenuation should be performing much better than that. That line speed is what I'd expect if it were over 1 km longer (attenuation around 45-48dB)

Those lads were talking ****e. It would change immediately sooner or later if it were to make a difference. Not gradually. If you see an eircom lineman around the area again, I'd tell them what happened and how your line's worse since they came along...

They may install a proper broadband socket at the main (master) socket (usually in the hall) which will filter everywhere else and leave you with a dedicated socket for the modem. The filter in it is also better than the ordinary microfilter adapter yokes normally used, I think.

Certainly, the line seems to have a much lower SNR than it should for that distance. There could be something generating noise like a dodgy fluorescent light or dimmer switch or any other number of things, so the broadband filter plate at the master socket will help a lot with that.

NeitherJohn

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

A line with your ok attenuation should be performing much better than that. That line speed is what I'd expect if it were over 1 km longer (attenuation around 45-48dB)

Those lads were talking ****e. It would change immediately sooner or later if it were to make a difference. Not gradually. If you see an eircom lineman around the area again, I'd tell them what happened and how your line's worse since they came along...

They may install a proper broadband socket at the main (master) socket (usually in the hall) which will filter everywhere else and leave you with a dedicated socket for the modem. The filter in it is also better than the ordinary microfilter adapter yokes normally used, I think.

Certainly, the line seems to have a much lower SNR than it should for that distance. There could be something generating noise like a dodgy fluorescent light or dimmer switch or any other number of things, so the broadband filter plate at the master socket will help a lot with that.

I think you're right. Just to make sure it wasn't anything on my side, I unplugged the main phone and all extensions, and plugged the gateway into the socket on its own. I even hooked up by Ethernet instead of over wireless. the sync actually went down to 3560 or something. The upstream SN margin also dropped to 20.

It's very strange, and fairly annoying. Everything they claim to be doing to better my broadband experience, is just making it worse.

Only eircom could upgrade a phone line, and make sure the speed goes down! :pac:

lucernarian

Don't mind the upstream signal margin, those modems are not brilliant at measuring this sort of thing at extremes of the scale. 20 dB is a very large margin Apparently the line at the folks' house has upstream margin of 31.5dB even though it's 4 miles long:rolleyes:

Just to clarify, are you sure that ONLY the line from the exchange was wired to the main socket? Any extensions, whether they're connected with 3-way splitters or hard wired into the socket itself, need to be disconnected for troubleshooting so that there's only one socket connected to the line outside with no splits or joins etc. Sorry if it sounds pushy, it's important to have a clean run when checking what's causing the problem.

Connecting by ethernet won't make a difference so save yourself the hassle!

NeitherJohn

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

Don't mind the upstream signal margin, those modems are not brilliant at measuring this sort of thing at extremes of the scale. 20 dB is a very large margin Apparently the line at the folks' house has upstream margin of 31.5dB even though it's 4 miles long:rolleyes:

Just to clarify, are you sure that ONLY the line from the exchange was wired to the main socket? Any extensions, whether they're connected with 3-way splitters or hard wired into the socket itself, need to be disconnected for troubleshooting so that there's only one socket connected to the line outside with no splits or joins etc. Sorry if it sounds pushy, it's important to have a clean run when checking what's causing the problem.

Connecting by ethernet won't make a difference so save yourself the hassle!

Aye, I know Ethernet doesn't make a tack of difference, but they've suggested it to me before on first-level support, so I do it with gritted teeth. There's no fluorescent lights within 30 metres of my house anyway! ( I know all the neighbours . And our single dimmer switch has never affected the broadband but thats interesting to know it can do that.

Not too sure on the wirings of the extensions. I only had to disconnect one phone and its microfilter. There's only one extension for that phone in the parents bedroom and it seems to go through the wall and floor so I'd wager it's hard wired into the main socket downstairs in the hall.

In relation to your previous post regarding the attenuation, you are right in saying that I should be getting better speeds with the attenuation I have. I should be getting about 6 Mb according to the ADSL checker on kitz.co.uk. I have pointed this out numerous times to eircom yet they are certain I cannot and will not ever get more than 4 at a push.

It seems your "new master socket" approach seems to be the best way to go. Thanks for all your help. I'll mention it to eircom customer support when I ring them/contact them on the eircomconnect forum.


God help me :rolleyes:

lucernarian

If you found no increase in speed whatsoever by disconnecting everything and anything from the master socket except the line itself, there's little hope of the filter helping as the filter simply does the same thing at DSL frequencies, making sure that all DSL transmissions neither continue into the house extensions or are affected by noise from those extensions, like when you pick up or hang up your phone or fluorescent lights etc.

I'd pursue it with eircom directly if you can't have a word with the friendly local linesmen who kindly downgraded your speeds. I think it's reasonable to make a complaint about this and hopefully whoever reviews the complaint will agree that a line should not perform worse after eircom got their mits on it.

NeitherJohn

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

If you found no increase in speed whatsoever by disconnecting everything and anything from the master socket except the line itself, there's little hope of the filter helping as the filter simply does the same thing at DSL frequencies, making sure that all DSL transmissions neither continue into the house extensions or are affected by noise from those extensions, like when you pick up or hang up your phone or fluorescent lights etc.

I'd pursue it with eircom directly if you can't have a word with the friendly local linesmen who kindly downgraded your speeds. I think it's reasonable to make a complaint about this and hopefully whoever reviews the complaint will agree that a line should not perform worse after eircom got their mits on it.

I'll get on it first thing Monday then. Thanks again.

Baneblade

its the downstream sn thats the problem, once it gets down to 6db the speed/stability starts going

id say bigpaddy2004 is right the new box knocked a few db of the line and that caused the speed to lower

NeitherJohn

I've posted onto eircomconnect. They're investigating and getting back to me on Friday.

jay93

Baneblade wrote: »

its the downstream sn thats the problem, once it gets down to 6db the speed/stability starts going

id say bigpaddy2004 is right the new box knocked a few db of the line and that caused the speed to lower

Yeah i agree with you the sn of 6db is very low while upload sn is at 21db john i think eircom really need to take a look at your line again something is up with it was the downstream sn always that low ?

NeitherJohn

jay93 wrote: »

Yeah i agree with you the sn of 6db is very low while upload sn is at 21db john i think eircom really need to take a look at your line again something is up with it was the downstream sn always that low ?

It was 11 or 12 before I got NGB. It went down to 7 the day I got NGB and after a bit of egging on of eircom CS reps, got them to put it to 4 meg. Then the downstream SN went that low.

jay93

Hmm thats a odd one now moving to NGB shouldnt have done that altough the sn is low the line should still be stable are you getting any disconnections at all ?

NeitherJohn

Nope, I've never had one disconnection bar work at the exchange and DNS breakdowns that eircom are prone to!

jay93

Ah right at least its not randomly disconnecting on ya:p
id still keep at them tough as to why your download speed has dropped off a bit since they were messing around with the lines
they have been digging up streets here in my area the past few days and DSL speeds are slower than usual hopefully they are upgrading the area to ADSL 2 so we can get speeds of upto 24mb
their DNS servers are a joke at times like last year when they got hacked service was all over the place !

Max Allowed Speed (kbps) 3072 384 SN Margin (dB) 22.00 20.00 Line Attenuation (dB) 10.50 5.50 CRC Errors 0 1

heres the stats on my line with utv as you can see SN margin on download speed is around the same as upload its odd your download sn i so low tough tis confusing :cool:

lucernarian

It's no mystery. Downstream uses much higer frequencies than upstream, so over a given stretch of wire the downstream signals will be weakened more than the upstream ones will. So there's lower signal.

Assuming noise level is roghly equal across the range of frequencies, Signal-to-Noise Ratio will be lower for download (downstream) than for upstream.

Also, download speeds tend to be maxed out especially with the so-called "Next Generation" Broadband while upload speeds are only working at a small percentage of max speed at 384 or 512 kbps. At 7 or 8 mbps download especially, the line has to use most of the available downstream frequencies. Including the weaker ones. So the snr will be lower.


The junction box itself has made little or no difference as the attenuation hasn't changed during the installation of the new line. If they're not faulty, joints can only affect attenuation, not the snr. I'd say what happened is the line going back to the exchange is now different as eircom may have swapped all the "upgraded" houses onto a new pair each as part of a rebuild in the area. This could go to a new cabinet or have a different route etc. That could result in extra noise, but it's hard to say.

NeitherJohn

Mark over on eircomconnect tells me there's a fault on the line, and has escalated the case to the engineers so they can check my line and exchange.

Your explanation seems to be the most plausible To_be_confirmed. Time will tell I suppose.

NeitherJohn

A very nice lineman came to my door today and spent about 20 minutes fiddling around with the demarcation point. He said his equipment showed a fault on the line as well. He went about 100m around the corner where an eircom cabinet was and apparently changed around a few wires.

Unfortunately, no change in any of my line stats and broadband speed. He said he'd be back tomorrow though, so I can tell him then.

Fair play to eircom for sending him out so quickly.

lucernarian

That's true, it was good form on eircom's part. I'm glad that they recognise a problem in the first instance. Hopefully it will be sorted quickly. Do keep us updated, it's handy to hear what happened for anyone else who has the problem!

NeitherJohn

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

That's true, it was good form on eircom's part. I'm glad that they recognise a problem in the first instance. Hopefully it will be sorted quickly. Do keep us updated, it's handy to hear what happened for anyone else who has the problem!

Engineer came again on Wednesday and this morning and said all was well. Syncing at 5Mb now. He didn't know what was wrong with it as he said he fixed one fault which caused a cascade of other ones. He just swapped me onto a new line all the way out from the exchange. My line stats are also much improved.

Downstream	                      Upstream
Max Allowed Speed (kbps)	      5120	                        512
SN Margin (dB)	                     13.50	                        26.00
Line Attenuation (dB)	             34.00	                        19.00
CRC Errors	                      0	                                 0

With the stats much better, I've asked eircomconnect to try me on the 6Mb profile, but they can't do that until the engineer has cleared the line on the system. I suppose I can't complain

lucernarian

I'm suprised that when he fiddled around in the cabinet, he didn't try to swap over a pair there and then. There have been cases of a couple of people in my area who were swapped onto a new line with upgrade works or else a new line was installed nearby and their phone line went dead, the linesmen involved simply swapped over a new pair no questions asked.

The line looks like it can handle 6mb with stability but I wouldn't rule out a rare disconnect or two every month. In all likelihood, it should work fine.

Btw, can you tell me what exchange you're served by? Eircom's service is not equal from one area to the next, so I wanted to note where these helpful linesmen are:cool:

NeitherJohn

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

I'm suprised that when he fiddled around in the cabinet, he didn't try to swap over a pair there and then. There have been cases of a couple of people in my area who were swapped onto a new line with upgrade works or else a new line was installed nearby and their phone line went dead, the linesmen involved simply swapped over a new pair no questions asked.

The line looks like it can handle 6mb with stability but I wouldn't rule out a rare disconnect or two every month. In all likelihood, it should work fine.

Btw, can you tell me what exchange you're served by? Eircom's service is not equal from one area to the next, so I wanted to note where these helpful linesmen are:cool:

He actually swapped over a pair in the cabinet on Wednesday but that did nothing for it. I'm served by Quaker Road (021). I'm about 2km from it following poles (ignoring cabinets). About 1.3km as the crow flies.

NeitherJohn

Just to keep you updated, these are my line stats as of 2 hours ago.

Downstream	        Upstream
Max Allowed Speed (kbps)	         7168	                 512
SN Margin (dB)	                         8.90	                 25.00
Line Attenuation (dB)	                 34.00	                 19.00
CRC Errors	                           1	                      0

Finally getting what I paid for!

lucernarian

Getting 7 mb/s there I see. Nice one!:D

jay93

Very nice that is at least your line is more stable now and your getting 7mb