Terran Vs Zerg... possible whinge-warning....

NeoSlicerZ

oh, download it from BNet then, search for iCCup then scroll down for river point.

TheDoc

Dustaz wrote: »

If you cant stop a cheese/all in/timing early push, then your not ready for diamond.

Its exactly the same thing as silver/gold zerg saying that terran is imbalanced.

Im platinum and i get beaten by protoss proxy rush EVERY time. I've tried training it with friends who are diamond and got them to proxy me 5 games in a row. Every time they do it, i know its coming and i cant stop it. Im just not good enough to micro/time it and stop it before im overrun 80% of the time.

When i can stop that, i might be ready for platinum. Untill then, im not.

People need to realise that cheese and all in strats are just that, all in. They are completely and utterly useless against a player who is equipped to repel it and once you can do this, its an instant win.

Practice, Practice, Practice.


Having said all that, it really would be nice to have longer games

Man, you know my pain, dealing with rushing in team games is just simply, fail. No matter how early you scout, its horrid, especially as terran. Theres only so long a wall in will hold for.

NeoSlicerZ

Xios wrote:

We need the custom map to view the replay

Ugh, here's the long ones I played on Desert Oasis and Scrap Station then.

Dustaz

pixelburp wrote: »

Practise is cool n' all - and lords knows I'm trying - but my problem is that as Zerg, I don't feel equipped to counter the MMM steamroller strats of Terran. All I can do is mass banelings at their ramp & say a hail-mary it works, ready to flood the inside with speedlings.

I'm only a bronze, knocking on the door of silver, but I can't find any legitimate zerg strats to breakdown a Terran holed up in his base, building up to that critical mass.

At bronze level, strats simply dont come into it. You just need More Stuff. More Stuff beats Less Stuff every time. In fact, More Stuff is a viable tactic untill diamond level.

Either you attack the terran before his mmm is too big or you use the time it takes for him to gather the army to tech up and repel that attack.

More Stuff

TheDoc

Dustaz wrote: »

At bronze level, strats simply dont come into it. You just need More Stuff. More Stuff beats Less Stuff every time. In fact, More Stuff is a viable tactic untill diamond level.

Either you attack the terran before his mmm is too big or you use the time it takes for him to gather the army to tech up and repel that attack.

More Stuff

Cant believe how true this is. My micro is pretty ok and early on was finding it difficult to beat low skilled players.

I've finally got over the Wc3 block that was really hampering my SC2 play, now coupled with learning how to macro better and my decent micro, I'm doing well for myself.

Be interesting tonight to put it into practice if this king of the hill goes ahead

jazzme

I play as a zerg and dont play other races in the multiplayer. I find zergs very weak defensively and on economy among the races. The terran wall is indeed the hardest strategy to break but some terrans depend on it too much that in most cases their weakness. Early on the game I create a number of zerlings and go on the choke, convert them to banelings then attack while another army of zergling is on the way. Destroy SVC and supply depots as I can. Usually the next wave will be a GG.Not very effective vs protoss becuase it takes more banelings before their pylons go down

Kirby

Zerg are a weaker race . For many reasons. It's just the way things are at the moment. Terran and Protoss are easier to play as at beginner and advanced level and have far more options open up to them with safe play.

Fundamental changes need to be made to the race. Scouting being one. I would suggest removing the timer on the changling for a start. Scanner sweep and observer/Halucinations are far superior.

Economic imbalances being another problem. Both terran and protoss can outmine zerg while simultaneously producing more units in the early game. This needs to be addressed.

Until than, just accept the fact that you will lose to alot of players of equal skill unless it's a mirror match. Try not to get too frustrated by it.

I would suggest getting an earlier than usual pool against most terran. Scout his barracks to check for reapers. If he isn't, get your natural expansion quick. If he goes reapers get 2 spine crawlers up. Thats what I do anyway. Fight them off, take your natural and tech to infestors. They work very well. Fungal growth against the inevitable MMM ball and you have Neural parasite for the thors. Couple this with banelings and you stand a good chance.

seraphimvc

the friend sent this to me

pixelburp

Funny cos it's depressingly true

NeoSlicerZ

pixelburp wrote: »

Funny cos it's depressingly true

The sheer amount of rolleyes I did while looking at that "terran counter" picture. View more streams of games on iCCup maps.

DeVore

The Zerg flowchart is pretty much on the money though....

I've complained so much about this im just going to stop now, and I think i'll just take up Protoss until Zerg get some lovin'...

I still enjoy playing Zerg 2v2 etc, but its embarrassing for Zerg to have to say "keep me alive until I can get a force together, and upgrade them". Its embarrassing to get out-swarmed.

Do you know, I havent built one single ultra in SC2 yet... the games just never get that far one way or another and thats, bad.

DeV.

pixelburp

NeoSlicerZ wrote: »

The sheer amount of rolleyes I did while looking at that "terran counter" picture. View more streams of games on iCCup maps.

Ah I was laughing more at the flow-chart, the Terran Counter's a bit meh

DeVore wrote: »

[...]
Do you know, I havent built one single ultra in SC2 yet... the games just never get that far one way or another and thats, bad.
DeV.

Ditto, and it only occurred to me last night while playing a Zerg mirror game. I only spawned ultras, for the first time, 'cos the other guy was turtling & I was bored. And even then they didn't do anything - Nydus worms won me the game in the end.

seraphimvc

the part that caught me most was the

Hydra?

---

> LOL

seriously hydra is too fragile and slow asssssss in sc2!

i actually been using ultras alot in team game:D ling+mutas and if the game didnt end there i stop making mutas save up the gas and go ultras, works well (only when there is no mass marauder).

DeVore

No mass Marauder = No Terran.... any terran worth their salt uses MMM realistically.

I think there are really interesting inter racial combinations possible in the game (like say, Ultras being healed by Medivacs under a Mothership.... very unpleasant). But single race, single tier mass "ball" is not an interesting strategy to play or play against.

DeV.

BlitzKrieg

mutaling as outlined by hdstarcraft

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaD9kkY7XAQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCrabTmvtA8

its not a lol win bo ala MMM ball. But it does work, you just need to get it down to a T.

which is quite hard initially. Especially as Neo can point out from tuesdays games the droning up part can be quite hard to stick to cause you have such a fear of being rushed that its difficult to willingly build almost no real army until 20 food.

But I find it works against players who simply rely on MMM ball. And I've had games where I should have lost but the player was so afraid of a muta flank that he kept pulling back to his base to defend it allowing me to tech to ultras and get a sweet surrond to end the games (ultras in the front, lings in the back)

it still needs zerg players to work alot more and scout alot more (which is really hard for zerg) in the initial game.


Though I disagree with HD on using it against protoss, I find that early zealots can create a train effect (just a stream of them gradually moving towards my base) stops me from ever reaching any sort of mass with my lings = gg so I still rely on roaches to act like a wall at my base (and yes I get Hydras funnily enough, they work very well vs protoss when you tank with roaches.)

NeoSlicerZ

Mutaling is pretty decent vs toss if you can get enough mutas fast enough. There's kind of a tipping point where you overcommit to slings and end up delaying mutas too much. I have problems with it on a large map like scrap where defending my natural and main is a HUGE pain. The answer there is to ram your army down the zerg's throat and force him to bring his mutas to fight. If the toss has opened stargate, forget about mutas. Microed phoenix >> Muta. Early zealot pressure isn't quite as good with the zealot nerf but it's not one of my preferred openers. I prefer to 4gate though I've been experimenting with some very greedy builds.

NeoSlicerZ

I shall chime in with a "**** SCV REPAIR!" It's complete BS a single thor + SCVs can hold off 20 supply worth of units.

Ended up void raying him and he QQs about toss being overpowered.

DeVore

Wow, I can beat an idiot Terran who let's me get 20 supply with any harass at all and the randomly builds buildings in or near my base and then walks into a bunch of banelings. That guy was dumb. 6 marines at any time prior to the tier 2 mutas would have been gg.

DeV.

Bicky

NeoSlicerZ wrote: »

I shall chime in with a "**** SCV REPAIR!" It's complete BS a single thor + SCVs can hold off 20 supply worth of units.

I agree totally. I have been playing sc2 for about a month now. I started as zerg and have not learned the other races yet but i am getting totally owned in gold and might switch to toss. Sc2 has far too many terrans.

Wow, I can beat an idiot Terran who let's me get 20 supply with any harass at all and the randomly builds buildings in or near my base and then walks into a bunch of banelings. That guy was dumb. 6 marines at any time prior to the tier 2 mutas would have been gg.

Stick up the replay.

Jonny7

One Zerg left in the GSL in Korea and is producing some of the most epic games.

Carpet bombing thors with ultras dropped from overlords is all I have to say

seraphimvc

Jonny7 wrote: »

One Zerg left in the GSL in Korea and is producing some of the most epic games.

Carpet bombing thors with ultras dropped from overlords is all I have to say

FruitSeller (aka Cool) and Checkprime are still in cant wait for checkprime's match now!

Jonny7

You're absolutely right, I forgot about Check, should be some good games coming up.

On a side note, many top koreans are making SC2 accounts and some big names have announced the move - all good news for some big tourneys