joining motorway

slimjimmc

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

I found the above video helpful! However, has anybody ever needed to stop because they couldn't see a gap? As a newly qualified driver (full licence for about 4 months) I have driven on many motorways, but usually when I drive on motorways they are large and have very long merging lanes (i.e. there is a long section of the road with a broken white line to merge across) e.g. on the M1 and M4.

However, I was a passenger in the car the other day around Dublin City. The M50 merging lanes are a lot shorter. Even on the M1, some merging lanes are very short, e.g. the airport slip-road heading northbound. It's not that the acceleration lane itself is short, but rather they only have broken white lines at the end for a few metres, so you have to adjust your speed to make sure you arrive there when a gap arrives.

Has anybody ever had any difficult merging on before, either having to stop or continue onto the emergency lane (or hard shoulder in the case of a dual carraigeway)? My thought is that if you stop, it would be very difficult to merge on as traffic on the carraigeway is moving so you would have to look for a very large gap and boot it once you join the dual carraigeway.

Yes, not often but on one or two occasions, and I've seen others too.
Joining the N7 from the Citywest junction is one such location. The turnoff for Saggart is only about 30m ahead so at peak times you can have a bunched up line of cars in the left lane with no room to merge. You can't do the nasty and stay in the hardshoulder because there is none and the traffic island ahead won't do you or your car much good.

In addition as you're coming down the slip road things such as the bridge, the slight bend in the N7 approaching under the bridge and the curve in the slip road all conspire to limit your view of traffic back up the N7. Basically you only get a good view if there's a gap coming up behind you once you're parallel so the opportunity to adjust for merging can sometimes be brief.

Gumbo

CiniO wrote: »

Where that answer came from? Does in has any support in rules of the road or road traffic act or regulations?

AFAIK you joining the motorway from acceleration lane, is just a normal "changing lane". Unless there's no continuous white line, you can change lane anytime you want.

ehh did you read my post? i said you have to ttravel the full length of the continuos white line, until that white line turns into a dashed line, you cant cross it?

whats so hard about that to understand?

djimi wrote: »

Eh, no you dont! You can merge once the white line is broken, and its usually broken shortly after the hatched area and long before the end of the slip road. Once its safe to merge, you can merge over the broken white line.

Eh, isint that exactly what i said? i dont see the need to try correct someone and then post exactly what that person said?

what i said :

kceire wrote: »

short answer, yes you have to travel the full length
if theres a continuious white line then you have to wait for it to end and turn into a dashed line.

CiniO

mathepac wrote: »

+1 Section 11 ROTR (see above) details the circumstances when certain vehicles may use the lane(s) closest to the the central median on motorways / dual-carriageways

And they say clearly, that trucks and vehicles towing trailers, are not allowed in most right lane (even if it's only 2 lane motorway).
This means in short words, that these vehicles can use only left lane of the motorway. Of course there are exceptions, but they don't apply in this case what we are talking about.
Truck can't legally go on the right lane, to allow accomodate traffic from merging lane.

CiniO

kceire wrote: »

ehh did you read my post? i said you have to ttravel the full length of the continuos white line, until that white line turns into a dashed line, you cant cross it?

whats so hard about that to understand?

I did read your post.
It was quite inconsistant, becuase first sentence denied the second one.

I quote the first one anyway:

short answer, yes you have to travel the full length.

This is obviously not true.

Gumbo

CiniO wrote: »

I did read your post.
It was quite inconsistant, becuase first sentence denied the second one.

I quote the first one anyway:


This is obviously not true.

yes the slip road ends as soon as the line turns from continuos to dashed, so in effect you are travelling the full length, no?

djimi

kceire wrote: »

Eh, isint that exactly what i said? i dont see the need to try correct someone and then post exactly what that person said?

what i said :

Actually, no thats not what you said. The OP asked do you have to travel to the end of the merging lane before merging and you said "short answer, yes you have to travel the full length". This is not the case, as in fact the continuous white line becomes a broken white line long before the end of the merging lane, and once it becomes a broken white line you can cross it to merge onto the road.

Sorry if I took you up wrong and this is in fact what you meant, but its not what you said.

djimi

kceire wrote: »

yes the slip road ends as soon as the line turns from continuos to dashed, so in effect you are travelling the full length, no?

I would have thought the slip road ends at the triangular point at the end of the slip road?

There will be a broken white line well before that point.

CiniO

kceire wrote: »

yes the slip road ends as soon as the line turns from continuos to dashed, so in effect you are travelling the full length, no?

I thing each of us is talking about something completely different

Mimikyu

This post has been deleted.

Gumbo

djimi wrote: »

Actually, no thats not what you said. The OP asked do you have to travel to the end of the merging lane before merging and you said "short answer, yes you have to travel the full length". This is not the case, as in fact the continuous white line becomes a broken white line long before the end of the merging lane, and once it becomes a broken white line you can cross it to merge onto the road.

Sorry if I took you up wrong and this is in fact what you meant, but its not what you said.

look at my original post, it hasnt been edited at all, so what i said is right there in black and white tbh.
the merging lane ends when the continuous line turns to dashed, and then you can cross it imo.

djimi wrote: »

I would have thought the slip road ends at the triangular point at the end of the slip road?

There will be a broken white line well before that point.

not really, out at my junction to the M50 for example, it starts with the tri-angular hatched markings, then continuos line then dashed line, and at the point it becomes dashed, you can cross it to join the motorway, thats my opinon of it, my understanding is that the OP wanted to cross the hatched area or the continuous line to joine the motorway, which you cant.

anyway, were probably way OT now, so i hope the OP got their answer.

CiniO wrote: »

I thing each of us is talking about something completely different

yeah sounds like it, im talking about a merging lane from a normal road to a motorway.
maybe our explainations dont come off too well in print, anyhow, im off to watch united beat everton..................hopefully

djimi

Ok I think were talking about the same thing, but youre getting mixed up in the terminology. From what I took from the OP they were asking if there is say for example 100m of dashed white line between the merging lane and the main road after the hatching do they have to travel the full 100m to merge or can they merge before the 100m provided it is safe to do so. The answer to this is they can merge once the white line is broken and it is safe to do so; you do not have to wait until the end of the merging lane.

The merging lane is still a merging lane until it narrows to a point and either becomes the hard shoulder or disappears. Hatchings, continuous white lines or brokes lines do not change this. A merging lane can be 100m long or more sometimes (Ive seen some very long ones), most of which will have a broken white line, but it is still a merging lane.

RandomAccess

DAMN - had a big response typed up and F**** session timed out.. How the hell do I get it extended?? Always bloody happens.

slimjimmc

RandomAccess wrote: »

DAMN - had a big response typed up and F**** session timed out.. How the hell do I get it extended?? Always bloody happens.

Write it up in Notepad or whatever external text editor you have then copy and paste.



My understanding of a merging/slip lane is that it extends to the point where the solid white line on your left tapers across and joins the left side of the main lane. Using that definition you don't have to drive the full length of the lane to merge if you can merge legally and safely beforehand where the dotted white line permits. If you can't merge safely before you reach the end you must stop (i.e. not cross the solid white line tapering in from your left) and wait for a safe opportunity (though many folks just tear up the hs or 'create' their own 'gap').

Gumbo

djimi wrote: »

Ok I think were talking about the same thing, but youre getting mixed up in the terminology. From what I took from the OP they were asking if there is say for example 100m of dashed white line between the merging lane and the main road after the hatching do they have to travel the full 100m to merge or can they merge before the 100m provided it is safe to do so. The answer to this is they can merge once the white line is broken and it is safe to do so; you do not have to wait until the end of the merging lane.

The merging lane is still a merging lane until it narrows to a point and either becomes the hard shoulder or disappears. Hatchings, continuous white lines or brokes lines do not change this. A merging lane can be 100m long or more sometimes (Ive seen some very long ones), most of which will have a broken white line, but it is still a merging lane.

+1
yeah thats what i am (trying) to post

Lemming

Captain Morgan wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

If you're talking about Irish motorways, I've fixed that for you

sentient_6

I tend to always move out to let people merge in & i appricate when people do the same for me. What drives me mental though is when you tipping along in the left & slightly ahead is a car merging. No problem ill move to let him in, & some dick ripping up behind in the overtaking tears by just as you'd like to move out. I find this happens alot at the athlone by pass where there is alot of exits in a short distance. I wish the cough*bmw dicks*cough relaxed with the 160 kmph overtaking on this one section, cos of all the merging.

RandomAccess

sentient_6 wrote: »

I tend to always move out to let people merge in & i appricate when people do the same for me. What drives me mental though is when you tipping along in the left & slightly ahead is a car merging. No problem ill move to let him in, & some dick ripping up behind in the overtaking tears by just as you'd like to move out. I find this happens alot at the athlone by pass where there is alot of exits in a short distance. I wish the cough*bmw dicks*cough relaxed with the 160 kmph overtaking on this one section, cos of all the merging.

Back in your lane Cretin!! I have more headlamps than youuuuu!

mathepac

CiniO wrote: »

... Of course there are exceptions, but they don't apply in this case what we are talking about...

As I suggested above read the ROTR Section 11 (fully and ask back here if what's written isn't entirely clear to you) then look at what you posted above - if there are circumstances where they can use the outer lanes, then driving them in the outer lanes is not illegal; your post above stated it was illegal. It's not illegal.

CiniO

mathepac wrote: »

As I suggested above read the ROTR Section 11 (fully and ask back here if what's written isn't entirely clear to you) then look at what you posted above - if there are circumstances where they can use the outer lanes, then driving them in the outer lanes is not illegal; your post above stated it was illegal. It's not illegal.

It is illegal, unless these circumstances occur.
I'm not sure if you remember, that I was talking about trucks and vehicles towing trailers, on the right lane of motorway.

So I'll say it again. If the truck is driving on the left lane of 2 lane motorway, and someone is approaching from merging lane into the motorway, it is illegal for truck to go to the right lane, even if the truck driver does it just to allow merging traffic to enter the motorway...
Do you agree with it?

slimjimmc

CiniO wrote: »

It is illegal, unless these circumstances occur.
I'm not sure if you remember, that I was talking about trucks and vehicles towing trailers, on the right lane of motorway.

So I'll say it again. If the truck is driving on the left lane of 2 lane motorway, and someone is approaching from merging lane into the motorway, it is illegal for truck to go to the right lane, even if the truck driver does it just to allow merging traffic to enter the motorway...
Do you agree with it?

To be fair CiniO, there was no mention of trucks in Post #8 or in Post 15 so I'm not surprised you were challenged. The first reference to trucks came in Post 16.

CiniO

slimjimmc wrote: »

To be fair CiniO, there was no mention of trucks in Post #8 or in Post 15 so I'm not surprised you were challenged. The first reference to trucks came in Post 16.

I know there was no reference to trucks bofore post 16.

But in post 50, I was just answering to Mathepac, who was trying to convince me that I'm wrong with trucks being not allowed on right lane.
And the truth is, that they really are not allowed in right lane of the motorway.

What I've written before post 16, was that I was thinking according to rule, that you have to stick to the left lane, if you are not overtaking anyone (on 2 lane motorway). Then while moving on the right lane, to allow to accomodate traffic entering the motorway, would break that rule.

Anyway, as I said, ROTR advice that kind of behaviour, so I'll have to take better look at Road Traffic Act and Regulations, to see how it's stated there. So far I didn't have to for it.

?Cee?view

CiniO wrote: »

I know there was no reference to trucks bofore post 16.

But in post 50, I was just answering to Mathepac, who was trying to convince me that I'm wrong with trucks being not allowed on right lane.
And the truth is, that they really are not allowed in right lane of the motorway.

What I've written before post 16, was that I was thinking according to rule, that you have to stick to the left lane, if you are not overtaking anyone (on 2 lane motorway). Then while moving on the right lane, to allow to accomodate traffic entering the motorway, would break that rule.

Anyway, as I said, ROTR advice that kind of behaviour, so I'll have to take better look at Road Traffic Act and Regulations, to see how it's stated there. So far I didn't have to for it.

Maybe this line from the Rules of the Road will assist your research :rolleyes:

"Avoid causing another driver to brake or change lane to accommodate you while you are on the motorway (aside from joining it)."

You should also be aware that in a Common Law jurisdiction, the statutory rules will really only go so far in identifying the legal position. But you're probably aware of this given your apparent familiarity with Acts and Regulations.

djimi

CiniO wrote: »

I know there was no reference to trucks bofore post 16.

But in post 50, I was just answering to Mathepac, who was trying to convince me that I'm wrong with trucks being not allowed on right lane.
And the truth is, that they really are not allowed in right lane of the motorway.

What I've written before post 16, was that I was thinking according to rule, that you have to stick to the left lane, if you are not overtaking anyone (on 2 lane motorway). Then while moving on the right lane, to allow to accomodate traffic entering the motorway, would break that rule.

Anyway, as I said, ROTR advice that kind of behaviour, so I'll have to take better look at Road Traffic Act and Regulations, to see how it's stated there. So far I didn't have to for it.

Technically by moving into the right hand lane to allow them onto the motorway you would be overtaking them.

Tbh I think its one of those situations where common courtesy takes precidence over the law. If its a quiet stretch of road and there is nothing in the right hand lane then you move into it to allow someone to merge. I cant see any guard in the land having an issue with it; it hurts nobody, so long as you move back into the left lane again of course.

BrianD3

If car A moves into the overtaking lane to facilitate car B merging onto the motorway but car B accelerates to a faster speed by the time he joins the mainline leaving car A overtaking nothing but fresh air - that could technically be an illegal maneouvre by car A. Also, if car A's "courteous" move forces cars already in the overtaking lane to change speed, car A is in the wrong.

I see the above happening on a regular basis.

And as already stated, in Irish legislation it is an offence for a vehicle limited to 80 km/h (HGVs, cars towing trailers etc.) to move into the overtaking lane of a motorway to let someone merge.

In general people don't have a clue how to drive on a motorway and make up little courtesy rules that cause confusion and annoyance. Has it ever occured to people that merging drivers DON'T WANT "help" from drivers on the mainline. And that the mergers would prefer if the cars on the mainline stayed where they are, maintained a steady speed and left the required gap to the car in front (all of which they should be doing anyway)

See the cluelessness in this thread where i'm told I'm a bad driver for driving legally
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=62947173

It seems as though most of the people in this country who have a clue how to drive are foreign or learned to drive in a different country

sentient_6

BrianD3 wrote: »

If car A moves into the overtaking lane to facilitate car B merging onto the motorway but car B accelerates to a faster speed by the time he joins the mainline leaving car A overtaking nothing but fresh air - that could technically be an illegal maneouvre by car A.

But if i was car A id just move back into lane 1? Whats the big deal?

djimi

BrianD3 wrote: »

If car A moves into the overtaking lane to facilitate car B merging onto the motorway but car B accelerates to a faster speed by the time he joins the mainline leaving car A overtaking nothing but fresh air - that could technically be an illegal maneouvre by car A. Also, if car A's "courteous" move forces cars already in the overtaking lane to change speed, car A is in the wrong.

Noone is suggesting that the car on the motorway should move into the path of an oncoming car in the right hand lane. Its pretty obvious that it just applies when the right hand lane is clear and it is safe for the car in the left hand lane to move into it.

Also, as I said above, I cant really see too many guards getting too upset with someone for moving into the right hand lane to allow a car to merge and then moving back into the left hand lane. In fact, Id be pretty pissed off if I was pulled over for this.

BrianD3 wrote: »

In general people don't have a clue how to drive on a motorway and make up little courtesy rules that cause confusion and annoyance. Has it ever occured to people that merging drivers DON'T WANT "help" from drivers on the mainline. And that the mergers would prefer if the cars on the mainline stayed where they are, maintained a steady speed and left the required gap to the car in front (all of which they should be doing anyway)

How would something like this cause confusion and annoyance? I would suggest anyone who gets confused or annoyed by something like this does not belong behind the wheel of a car...

Its a courteous gesture to allow the merging car more space to join the motorway/dual carraigeway. Its something I would only do or like to see done where there is ample opportunity to do so, ie the right hand lane is free and the manouever does not disrupt anyone.

Id also love to meet the driver who would prefer to have to merge in between cars in the left hand lane rather than see them move out to make more room in the left hand lane...

?Cee?view

BrianD3 wrote: »

If car A moves into the overtaking lane to facilitate car B merging onto the motorway but car B accelerates to a faster speed by the time he joins the mainline leaving car A overtaking nothing but fresh air - that could technically be an illegal maneouvre by car A.

The word you should focus on there is technically. As this is not a Civil Law state, you are wrong (not technically wrong).

BrianD3 wrote: »

Also, if car A's "courteous" move forces cars already in the overtaking lane to change speed, car A is in the wrong.

Obviously


Sorry, but this twaddle is just nonsense. I have an ancient aunt who sits in the middle of the road with the same sense of self justification saying "I've paid my taxes, I'm entitled to be here".

Anyone with a basic understanding of Roadcraft understands that you drive according to the conditions and the hazards (including other cars) which are presented. Maintaining a position on the road, because it's your perceived "right" is potentially suicidal.

BrianD3

sentient_6 wrote: »

But if i was car A id just move back into lane 1? Whats the big deal?

Because you must keep left unless overtaking. As I said it could technically be illegal even though someone would never be pulled for it. This may be where CiniO is coming from.

PS if I exceed the speed limit by 100 km/h is it "no big deal" once I "just slow back down" a few seconds later.

?Cee?view

djimi wrote: »

Also, as I said above, I cant really see too many guards getting too upset with someone for moving into the right hand lane to allow a car to merge and then moving back into the left hand lane. In fact, Id be pretty pissed off if I was pulled over for this.

Agreed. And I'm confident that the Guards would take the contrary view. It's quite likely that a driver who refused to move, or who didn't move, could face a charge of Careless Driving or if the circumstances were more serious, Dangerous Driving. A friend some weeks ago who refused to move to allow a car to merge was "pulled" by the Guards and given a severe telling off. For once, I agreed with the boys in blue

ardmacha

The traffic in the slip road has to give way to traffic on the mainline and there is no obligation on the vehicle on the motorway to move to the right lane. However not allowing a vehicle to merge is more than just staying in the left lane, it also means that you are not leaving a gap from the vehicle in front. I wish the Gardai would give a bollocking to more of those who seem to like to drive close to the vehicle in front. I'd also hope they'd give a bollocking to those who amble down the accelaration lane making little attempt to match the speed of traffic on the motorway.