Urgent Life or Death

cucoigcrice

Hi folks, i am having trouble here. I rescued a dog from work whom was going to be put to sleep in 2007 as someone had found it. It is a terrier mix, strong but large terrier Today i walked up to my families land and let him off the lead with my brothers dog. He doesnt get off the lead often as poor at recall but have tried to train him. He is aggressive with other dogs howver gets on great with my brothers dog. I have tried all aspects to train him and get him used to other dogs. I have succeded in having him walk to heal and other basic commands. He is still in my families fields and i am now at home. He has been running all day and decided to stick his head down a hole , so i tried to approach him to take him home. He seriously growled at me. No this is not a normal things for him, he gave me the wild eye look and is very aggressive. Now this has gone on for a few hours so i will go back up for him later to see if he will come back. But myself and my brother at seperate times tried to approach him and he would definately bite, going by his reaction i am sure he would. I am stuck in limbo in what to do. i have alot of nephews and nieces and he fine with them although is never alone with them. I just dont want to take any chances incase he does one day bite. What should i do, i have been considering PTS, but i nt sure!! Ne help would be great.
From one concerned owner
P.s i am now wondering is this why he may have been dumped, because he is aggresive?

cucoigcrice

Update the bell just rang my brother had dog back he said he was sittin at his back door when he arrived home!!! He said he growled at him but not sure wether at him or the other dog!!! My dog's tail was dropped when i took him from the car, i didnt punish him now cause he wouldnt know what he done wrong.
Still in 2 minds!!!

peasant

Huh?

So you have a dog that hardly ever gets off the lead and the one day that you let him off he decides to give you the finger when you try to get him back on ...and now you're considering having put him asleep?

Is that what it is? If not ..please explain a bit better.

cucoigcrice

No as i said he doesnt get off often. As in every few weeks he does, as i have been trying to train him at recall. I have tried the training leads and treats but it just doesnt seem to be working. I have been working on this since i got him and have tried classes.
Today completely took me by supprise as he was extremely aggressive, it is that which i am worried about!!
Sorry i should have explained this alot better but my head is all over the place at the minute.

Redneck Reject

Ya sure he didn't find something particularly smelly and tasty in the hole he was at and maybe thought you wanted to take it?I've a dog whose like that,very playful and gentle but give her a chicken leg and she guards it!

peasant

We have a little terrier mix that behaves similarly.
If she gets off the lead, she does whatever enters her head and will only come back when she's finished doing it and when SHE is good and ready.
We are in the fortunate postion to have a large, securely fenced back garden we we can let her run, track and dig to her hearts content, though getting her to come back in isn't always easy and she has gotten stroppy with us once or twice.
We are sure though that she is just being stubborn (trying it on) and not aggressive and that she fully (if reluctantly sometimes) recognises the chain of command ...so we just ignore her growling and gather her up anyway.
But outside our garden she just doesn't get off the lead...period.

Here's what I think you should do:

1) Recognise that some dogs just can't be trusted off the lead and keep yours on it unless in securely fenced areas

2) Find a good dog trainer who has experience with stubborn, strong willed dogs and let him/her help you to come to a better understanding of each other

3) Worst case scenario a good trainer will be able to assess if your dog REALLY has aggression issues and you can take it from there then.

cucoigcrice

Folks i dont want you's to this i am an evil, bi*ch!! I am far from it. I just dont want ne one getting hurt.
I dont think there was ne thing in it. i would walk away from it and he would go somewhere else. He done it to more than one hole!!
I think this post was posted too early and not thinking staight. He is in his run now looking in the window at me with his big brown eyes!!
I really do love him but his aggression just scared me because he is never like that.

cucoigcrice

Thanks for that post pheasant!!
I really dont think my dog should be off the lead, but i feel cruel sometimes, but i have tried i suppose.
Please dont think ill of me for my post today, i was just very emontional although i know that doesnt excuse it.
I know you said that you know your dog is only play acting, this however was serious today. My brother whom is near 40 was astonished by the behaviour and really was afraid of him. His teeeth were fully on show and the close i got i hackles went up.
I know that some people will say oh just pick him up. This a large muscular terrier, whom looks like abull terr x.
I think i will have to try another trainer, yet again 3rd time lucky

peasant

cucoigcrice wrote: »

I know you said that you know your dog is only play acting, this however was serious today. My brother whom is near 40 was astonished by the behaviour and really was afraid of him.

Yeah well ...he could be really aggressive or just very successful at making you think he is And then, if you let him away with it a few times, it becomes part of his behaviour.

As for your brother trying to collect him ....being 40 and possibly big and strong still doesn't make him the boss ...at least as far as your dog is concerned, so I wouldn't read too much into that.

PS:
When looking for a trainer, please emphasise that you want to learn how to handle and control a strong-willed dog first and foremost and that you're not interested in fancy stuff like walking to heel or recall (that can come later/is secondary)
Try to avoid trainers that work with force (call themselves "old school" or speak positvely of Cesar Millan ) or trainerlets who can only handle dogs that are meek and obedient to start with ...try find someone with a good head for dogs instead.

cucoigcrice

Again thank for all your comments, both posters. Really appreciate your help that will be my first job tomorrow!!:D

thesandeman

Would it be possible there was something down the hole like a rat that bit/scratched him? It might have freaked him out for a while and just peed him off.

cucoigcrice

thesandeman- i dont think there was ne thing in the hole, but he was definately growing at me to back away. Ne time i got closer to hinm to lift him away the threw a physico!!

thesandeman

Its possible it could even have been a thorn or something that pricked him and he didnt want to lose face. Dogs minds work in mysterious ways.

cucoigcrice

no definately not it was agression towards me and my brother!!

sambuka41

My Westie used to do that when he got the smell of a rat. He was good usually off lead,but if he got the smell of a rat,forget it. I could be hours chasing him around a park. He never got too aggressive and I was confident that his growls and snarls would go no further. But it could have been that,he was hunting??

I would say a trainer would be a good idea (although im not as against Caesar's methods as others) your sound apprehensive and possible today your dog used that against you:p The way they are good at doing!! Terriers in particular are smart and soooo strong willed.

Casey_81

I have a rescued 4yr old terrier type dog too. Similar to previous posters dogs he is territorial, and does not react well to fast moves. Its par for the course with rescued dogs, you don't know what happened to him before..

Hopefully you will get your dog trained soon, but until you do make sure that you don't crouch down to lift your dog as he might see this as threatening behavior.

If you find you need to move him then perhaps you should get a choke-type lead that you can slip over his head without the need for actual contact.

sionnaic

Casey_81 wrote: »

I have a rescued 4yr old terrier type dog too. Similar to previous posters dogs he is territorial, and does not react well to fast moves. Its par for the course with rescued dogs, you don't know what happened to him before..

Hopefully you will get your dog trained soon, but until you do make sure that you don't crouch down to lift your dog as he might see this as threatening behavior.

If you find you need to move him then perhaps you should get a choke-type lead that you can slip over his head without the need for actual contact.

No one should ever use a choke chain lead / collar.

EVER.

OP - maybe you could get him a harness (cosy dogs do really nice ones that I use and find very good: www.dog-harnesses.co.uk) if he's in a harness it might make it easier to grab him or reclip him on to his lead (the lead ring is on the back of the harness).

Good luck with the training.

cucoigcrice

Hopefully you will get your dog trained soon, but until you do make sure that you don't crouch down to lift your dog as he might see this as threatening behavior.


Casey 81- my dog is generally grand!! I just annoyed and alarmed at his actions yesterday. I can go out now while he is in his pen and do play with him and brush him etc etc. It's just seems to be when he is in hunting mode or something
You couldnt have lifted him yesterday cause he was turing round giving me the wild eye look like i said earlier with hackles up and teeth on ful show. I wouldnt have let any one near him as i didnt want anyone to get attacked.

Sionn- I had my dog on a harness previously but i honestly didnt find it usefull, i have also tried a slip lead which was also ****e in this case. The one thing which i have found of benefit to both the dog and myself is the halti. The dog doesnt be chocking or pull, which is good for both of us. I have more control over him and he doesnt seem to mind it.

Sorry about the ong post but just need to add something.
Yesterday when he arrived home i went and put him into his run i told him to sit. He sat there for ages and later on when i went out to the shed he would normaly be hopping around the place. He wasnt he was sitting very quitely with a sad face on him, as if he knew what he had done.

cjf

Some dogs get pegged with the label 'bad dogs' but if you look at the whole picture you may find that infact the dog is not 'bad' but following its instincts and doing the job it was bred to do.

All small terriers were used as 'ratting' or hunting dogs whose job it was to go down into small tight spaces and hunt out what ever is in the hole or to catch and kill small rodents. The majority of small terrier owners will find recall to be one of the hardest things to get these guys to do on a consistent level as the drive to hunt and follow smells down holes is very very strong. Your dog is not bad he was doing what he believes is his job and a terrier who hunts for rats etc is doing good at his job. You need to try and direct this behaviour to another job. hiding toys in the bushes and shrubs and getting him to find them will help fill his desire to hunt.

Agressison is a very strong word to use and professional advice should be sought before you decide if this dog is really an agressive animal. Most often dogs stick to the 'fight' or 'flight' options if they can escape and run away from a threat they will or if they feel boxed in and flight is not an option they choose fight. If the dog was busy with the hole and you and your brother were standing over him he could have felt flight was not an option. Growling has many meanings and it is not always a sign of a dogs intent to bite. Most commonly it is a warning that the dog feels threatend.

If you are worried about this I would seek professional advice on the best way to handle this.

kylith

If you can't trust him off lead then don't let him off lead. It seems cruel to us, but it's the way it is. If I weren't very careful about where I let mine off (only in an enclosed place with good visibility) I'd have long ago lost them down a rabbit hole, or off after a rat or another dog. IME terriers can get very focused on the hunt, and if they feel your encroaching on them they can get stroppy in defence of their prey.

If you can't trust him to come back don't let him off. He'll accept it as just the way things are.

cucoigcrice

Thanks posters. i have talk to a few experts today and yesterday. They said that they will do anything to protect their prey and that it is natural but just to keep an eye on him. Thanks all though for your comments they are all appreciated

LisaO

cucoigcrice wrote: »

Thanks posters. i have talk to a few experts today and yesterday. They said that they will do anything to protect their prey and that it is natural but just to keep an eye on him. Thanks all though for your comments they are all appreciated

Glad you have been able to get some other opinions & prespectives on your dogs behaviour. Personally. this is something I would still work on, even though it is a natural behaviour. Have owned 2 terriers - border & JRT - both with very strong hunting instincts but have always been able to take anything (including prey they have caught) away from them without any aggression from the dog, not even growling. Think about terriers with the strongest of prey drives, instincts that are actively encouraged and reinforced - hunting dogs. Not much use having a hunting dog if it won't willingly give up what it has caught.

Just saying don't allow the fact that it is a natural behaviour/instinct prevent you from trying to modify it so that both you & your dog can get along better.

Good Luck

Eibhin

Just a thought - if there are any enclosed dog parks near you, could you try some recall training there?

Also it would be good socialising for him with other dogs.

Bring him when he is hungry and use his fave treats or even some chopped chicken or something to use.

Oh and make sure there are no holes in the ground in the dog park!!:D