Would you reccomend Ableton Live 8 for a beginner?

Mark Mac Carthy

I'm completely new to the concept of making dance music but I'm determined to start making electro house music quite soon. I've done research on many sequencers and have found that Ableton seems to be the most poplular. What i'm asking is would it be a good idea to buy Ableton Live 8 for 209 euro, or perhaps it would be better to buy the full suite version for 100euro more?

Heres the actual product:
http://www.ableton.com/shop/more_info?item_number=83383.

Im looking for a sequencer that gives you complete control and has great features. I don't want do buy FL studio as I've heard it doesnt have some of the features that ableton has and it may not be the best product available. If you have any other tips or suggestions on what sequencer to buy it would be much appreciated. Also if you have purchased ableton could you please give me some feedback on what you though of it.

Many thanks,
Mark Mac Carthy.

Elevator

ableton beats fl fr sure, it's a very handy program to use and there are many tutorials online to get you producing quick

i would recommend buying the full suite or you'll be kicking yourself within a few weeks!

have you thought about what midi controller you'll get for it?

Mark Mac Carthy

Thanks for the advice man, I wasnt sure if I should get the regular or the full suite. The full suite seems to come with a lot more handy software.
Hasn't really crossed my mind yet, anything that is cheap because I wont really have a big budget after buying the sequencer. What midi keyboard are you using at the moment?

Elevator

yo

I'm using the akai mpk61 http://www.thomann.de/ie/akai_mpk_61.htm

and the apc40 http://www.thomann.de/ie/akai_apc_40.htm

you could pick a 49 key midi keyboard to save some money

Neurojazz

Mark Mac Carthy wrote: »

Thanks for the advice man, I wasnt sure if I should get the regular or the full suite. The full suite seems to come with a lot more handy software.
Hasn't really crossed my mind yet, anything that is cheap because I wont really have a big budget after buying the sequencer. What midi keyboard are you using at the moment?

You could get away with a light version and buy a decent software synth.

Sylenth is very light for the cpu and sounds great, and then you can use the internal ableton tools to make drums.

In the resources sticky at top of this forum should have lots of links to free stuff for you to use.

Have fun!

seannash

just an FYI Fruity Loops is perfectly capable of making great tunes.Alot of big named producers use it.
your being misinformed if you think otherwise.

there are demo for most DAW's out there(ableton,fruity,cubase,sonar) so try them first.

Ableton is good but the bundled effects are generally considered weak and to get the best out of it most people use 3rd party vsts.

if i was pc i think i would opt for cubase,its bundled effects are top notch aswell as its synths.it also has a warping feature which used to be abletons big attraction.
all daws will let you make music and people will argue that the one they use is the best.id go with the best overall bundled package and i think thats cubase.i think its cheaper than ableton too

Sky King

I don't know anything about cubase so maybe Seannash can fill you in a bit more on that but one thing to remember about ableton is that you can do the whole Live DJ / Production thing with it... it's a whole other aspect of the software which is fantastic and was a major selling point for me when I went for it.

I do not know if FL or Cubase has this facility.

I was a beginner a few years ago and I went with Ableton and I am having great fun with it now. I have heard many Logic users say that Logic blows Ableton right out of the water. Again, I can't comment on that.

All I can say is that it's easy to use and enjoyable and I am glad I went with it.

seannash

kilkenny flyer wrote: »

I don't know anything about cubase so maybe Seannash can fill you in a bit more on that but one thing to remember about ableton is that you can do the whole Live DJ / Production thing with it... it's a whole other aspect of the software which is fantastic and was a major selling point for me when I went for it.

I do not know if FL or Cubase has this facility.

I was a beginner a few years ago and I went with Ableton and I am having great fun with it now. I have heard many Logic users say that Logic blows Ableton right out of the water. Again, I can't comment on that.

All I can say is that it's easy to use and enjoyable and I am glad I went with it.

Yep ableton is currently the only one that will let you dj with it as well as produce.
in saying that the ability to dj with a programme shouldnt affect your decision if you have no interest in djing with it.

about logic blowing ableton out of the water.i think it does in terms of bundled content.as ive said the effects in ableton arent as high a standard as other DAW's but it comes down to how you like to work.i started with ableton and moved to logic and i find logic suits me better.

the idea of "jamming" with ableton doesnt seem to work out for me.i tend to have ideas and work on them rather than jam about til i find something.
this is just my way of working.

as ive said you can make tracks with all DAW's but for the long haul in terms of what youll have to buy i think cubase offers alot more bang for your buck

Sky King

Yea seannash I agree that if a person has no intention of DJing then it really shouldn't be a factor in them choosing Ableton! But at the same time I think that if Mark is planning on producing electro house, chances are he'll want to DJ too! And ableton is the obvious choice for that.

The instrument pack that came with the original Ableton was sucky enough, most of them sounded terrible, but I read some reviews and then I purchased the full upgrade with the operator, sampler, simpler, analog and all that jazz and I am more than satisfied with it now.

That operator is a beast of a synth so it is.

I have recently also taken to recording random sounds and mangling them. We have a laser cutter in work... I am DEFFO going to bring in my laptop and mic and record that s**t!

I suppose Mark the bottom line is that people will always tell you to get what they like themselves, and there's any amount of packages to choose from, but if you do get Ableton, I believe you won't go wrong with it.

seannash

kilkenny flyer wrote: »

Yea seannash I agree that if a person has no intention of DJing then it really shouldn't be a factor in them choosing Ableton! But at the same time I think that if Mark is planning on producing electro house, chances are he'll want to DJ too! And ableton is the obvious choice for that.

The instrument pack that came with the original Ableton was sucky enough, most of them sounded terrible, but I read some reviews and then I purchased the full upgrade with the operator, sampler, simpler, analog and all that jazz and I am more than satisfied with it now.

That operator is a beast of a synth so it is.

I have recently also taken to recording random sounds and mangling them. We have a laser cutter in work... I am DEFFO going to bring in my laptop and mic and record that s**t!

I suppose Mark the bottom line is that people will always tell you to get what they like themselves, and there's any amount of packages to choose from, but if you do get Ableton, I believe you won't go wrong with it.

yeah the synths arent too bad but im talking about the bundled effects(reverb is ****e,compressors/limiters arent great)

im definitely not saying that he will be disappointed with ableton.im ny opinion though Cubase is a better DAW for the money

Neurojazz

seannash wrote: »

yeah the synths arent too bad but im talking about the bundled effects(reverb is ****e,compressors/limiters arent great)

im definitely not saying that he will be disappointed with ableton.im ny opinion though Cubase is a better DAW for the money

Had no problems here with the internal stuff, just backed up with some nicer ones for the key elements.

Like i probably have 10-20 instances of abletons comp/eq running usually and then about 10-15 duende instances. The ableton reverb seems ok after a good tweaking for some stuff, but a uad verb on aux buss for the big background reverb. Which is weird, i don't use the internal synths - weird how people get into different things

kindelsesh

If i were you i'd try it first either getting the demo or Live Intro for 99€ just to see if its what your after, then if you liek it you can upgrade for next to nothing. Choosing the right DAW is all about personal preference remember so it's whatever suits you and although Live maight be for you it might not aswell.

Good Luck!

Mark Mac Carthy

Thanks for the advice lads. Given me a lot to think about. Cubase is very tempting and has a good price but I still think I'm gonna stick with my heart and go for Ableton Live 8. I also seem to get a better price for the full suite with the student discount. I just have a few more questions,

Seannash: What was the main reason why you switched from ableton to Cubase 5?

I was just wondering because I might pick ableton but in the future I could always move on to "Cubase 6" or whatever appears to be the best DAW at the time.

Also : Does low memory and high CPU usage really affect how you work with the sequencer?

Im considering deleting a lot of programs on my PC just to make room, may even purchase an external hardrive just to make enough space.

Finally, is there any way to lower CPU usage?

Many thanks again lads.

seannash

Mark Mac Carthy wrote: »

Seannash: What was the main reason why you switched from ableton to Cubase 5?

I was just wondering because I might pick ableton but in the future I could always move on to "Cubase 6" or whatever appears to be the best DAW at the time.

i actually switched to logic from ableton.
i have worked with people using cubase and was impressed by it.a friend recently upgraded to version 5 and i looked into the features and for the money it seemed to have alot of quality stuff

personally Logic is the bes DAW out there but your pc so you cant get it.
if you havent got a midi controller some of them come with ableton lite.so you could save yourself a few bucks by buying a midi controller that comes with ableton

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Axiom25.html

Neurojazz

Mark Mac Carthy wrote: »

Thanks for the advice lads. Given me a lot to think about. Cubase is very tempting and has a good price but I still think I'm gonna stick with my heart and go for Ableton Live 8. I also seem to get a better price for the full suite with the student discount. I just have a few more questions,

Seannash: What was the main reason why you switched from ableton to Cubase 5?

I was just wondering because I might pick ableton but in the future I could always move on to "Cubase 6" or whatever appears to be the best DAW at the time.

Also : Does low memory and high CPU usage really affect how you work with the sequencer?

Im considering deleting a lot of programs on my PC just to make room, may even purchase an external hardrive just to make enough space.

Finally, is there any way to lower CPU usage?

Many thanks again lads.

I went like this:-

hardware sequencers > Cubase 3.1 atari > Cakewalk 6 > Logic > Cakewalk 9 >Fruity Loops > Reason > Cubase 4.5 > Ableton

I wouldn't go near cubase or anything else after ableton - yet to see a current working logic and protools to see what the fuss is about and if workflow beats ableton myself.

It's sooo stable, bombproof and when it does finally crash after abuse it comes back up and restores right up to where you left off.

From a more technical point, i'm able to copy and move parts around very quickly - so after creating some loops and parts that work will take about an hour or 2 to finish a piece roughly with a lot of details work. The guy who made it have stuck bags of subtle things in there that i'm even finding jaw dropping.

I was a vehement cubase die hard veteran, and i'm glad the guys on boards piqued my interest in it. One demo later and a few you tube vids and i'm sold.

To compare it to cubase - well cubase is very hard, can be unforgiving in crashes, doesn't let you make huge mistakes in your workflow without it bombing out (so it takes time to learns its dos and don'ts) and ableton just lets you press everything, do everything you shouldn't and just sits their going 'YES MASTER - I WILL DO YOUR BIDDING' - Very robust (a bit like Reason)

The cons with reason is that it's fun and quick, robust but lacks vst support - but people have released stuff made just with reason.

krd

Mark Mac Carthy wrote: »

Thanks for the advice lads. Given me a lot to think about. Cubase is very tempting and has a good price but I still think I'm gonna stick with my heart and go for Ableton Live 8. I also seem to get a better price for the full suite with the student discount. I just have a few more questions,

Seannash: What was the main reason why you switched from ableton to Cubase 5?

I was just wondering because I might pick ableton but in the future I could always move on to "Cubase 6" or whatever appears to be the best DAW at the time.

Also : Does low memory and high CPU usage really affect how you work with the sequencer?

Im considering deleting a lot of programs on my PC just to make room, may even purchase an external hardrive just to make enough space.

Finally, is there any way to lower CPU usage?

Many thanks again lads.

How much memory you have does effect how well the DAW works. There's a long a complicated answer to why this is so. The more memory the better.

Up in the left hand corner of Ableton it shows CPU usage as a percentage. Some plugins are CPU hogs - they can't be used live. Some plugins have a very low foot print. I have a softsynth that makes great sounds - but it gives my CPU a heart attack so it's a real pain to use.

Effects and synths use the processor - the more effects and synths the more processor power you need - eventually you run out of power.

I don't DJ - but if I ever do - I'm going to play a pre-recorded MP3 set and pretend I'm doing something.

Neurojazz

krd wrote: »

I don't DJ - but if I ever do - I'm going to play a pre-recorded MP3 set and pretend I'm doing something.

OMG - don't pretend - look above your plugins, there is a little search box - search for 'fade to grey' and stick that on your master buss!

Mr. Grinder

Oh god yes! Get yer' mitts on Ableton - it's easy to use. I'm pretty new to this as well in all honesty (despite having a good go with Reason and FL studio back in the day).

Before I went o Ableton I tried quite a bit other stuff too, and had no joy with it whatsoever (Reaper/FL studio, etc). Ableton is one of the easiest programs I've ever used, it makes music production very accessible to begin with. As already pointed out there's loads of online resources for it too.

Depending on what you want to do, I don't think you really need to buy the whole suite though. I bought Live by itself, and have been adding to it ever since. I didn't initially go for the suite because I have a very definitive sound that I'm trying to capture. As NeuroJazz said, you can buy a different synth and it will integrate very nicely.

Sylenth is a great choice! I'm spending most of my time with Rob Papin's "Predator" because it seems to suit my style, and I've been getting my drum samples from various different places.

Carl Sagan

Mark Mac Carthy wrote: »

Im considering deleting a lot of programs on my PC just to make room, may even purchase an external hardrive just to make enough space.

Finally, is there any way to lower CPU usage?

Many thanks again lads.

All I can say myself is that you'll probably want space or an external harddrive for all the samples you'll inevitably start collecting!

hubiedubie

Ableton is an excellent program for beginners. I started on it, flirted with Logic for a while and came running back to Ableton. It's a great app. My only other DAW at the moment is Presonus Studio One which is also very good (very lightweight, incredible workflow and 64 bit). My biggest gripe with Ableton at the moment is the 3-4Gb RAM limit (ie still 32 bit) but I'm sure that will be sorted soon enough. If I had to choose one DAW, it would be Ableton hands down.