Plastic Bag Levy increase?

Staecows

Hi,

Back in September 2009 it was announced that the plastic bag levy was due to be doubled from 22c to 44c. News reports from 24/09/09 suggested that the bill would be published before the end of 2009.

I've been on the Department of Environment's website and on IrishStatuteBook.ie but I can't find any further information on this - does anyone know what the story is with this? Did the levy increase? Is it due to be increased? Has the issue been dropped?

Thanks!
-Staecows

Macha

Last I heard, Dunnes Stores was mounting some sort of legal challenge to the levy.

It also got a mention in the Commission on Taxation Report's Environmental Chapter from late 2009.

I haven't heard of any bills going through referencing the levy but this is a good website to check that sort of thing:

www.kildarestreet.com

Pete M.

I think that it has just been put on ice for the moment.

They often talk of increases which take a while to come round.

Like the scheduled increases in landfill fees.

And the only increase legislated for so far was the last one in '07, bringing it up to 22c.

There's probably a circular somewhere......

Macha

Belated update:

In upcoming legislation:

Environment (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill - To increase current levels of plastic bag and landfill levies and to extend the scope of the landfill levy to include incineration, to provide for increases in penalties under the Air Pollution Act 1987 and to introduce a system of fixed payment notices

http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/eng/Taoiseach_and_Government/Government_Legislation_Programme/SECTION_A1.html

LevelSpirit

FFS it wont be long til the plastic bag levy is high enough to send people up the North for their shopping.

Macha

LevelSpirit wrote: »

FFS it wont be long til the plastic bag levy is high enough to send people up the North for their shopping.

Oh dear..

Bring your own bags, problem solved! That's how I do it.

Staecows

Thanks Taconnol - didn't spot that one

Mike 1972

Two things I dont get RE: the levy

1) Why they dont round it to a multiple of 5c. Having it at 22 or 44 cent just adds to the worthless junk that is one and two cent coins in circulation.
2) Why is the levy applied at the same rate regardless of whether the bags are recycled and/or biodegradable or none of the above. Isint the whole point of such levies supposed to be to encourage a transition to more environmentally friendly alternatives.

encyclopedia

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Two things I dont get RE: the levy

1) Why they dont round it to a multiple of 5c. Having it at 22 or 44 cent just adds to the worthless junk that is one and two cent coins in circulation.
2) Why is the levy applied at the same rate regardless of whether the bags are recycled and/or biodegradable or none of the above. Isint the whole point of such levies supposed to be to encourage a transition to more environmentally friendly alternatives.

On your first query: The reason the levy was brought in was to deter people from using the plastic bag as we all know, the levy was originally 15c, people got used to this and started to use plastic bags more, the price was then increased, as far as I know the increase to 22c was the maximum price that they could raise it to without changing the law. I have no idea why they would raise it to 44c though, it actually seem illogical to me for the same reasons that you pointed out.

On your second query: I'd imagine that changing the law for different types of plastic materials would be hard to govern. I also read somewhere that the biodegradable plastic bags can be far worse for the environment then ordinary plastic bags as they dont fully bio-degrade and can be harmful to the area that they are dumped. Here is a similar article http://www.mathaba.net/news/?x=623021

taconnol wrote: »

Last I heard, Dunnes Stores was mounting some sort of legal challenge to the levy.

It also got a mention in the Commission on Taxation Report's Environmental Chapter from late 2009.

I haven't heard of any bills going through referencing the levy but this is a good website to check that sort of thing:

www.kildarestreet.com

I heard Dunnes are not selling the 22c bag and the cheapest available is now 70c. The 70c bag was previously around 40c including the levy.The reasons for me that they have done this is the fact that the levy only applies to bags that cost less than 70c. This then means that they now get the full 70c for the bag instead of the previous 18c. This may have something to do with the legal challenge that you referenced. I'm open to correction on it though

Mike 1972

encyclopedia wrote: »

On your second query: I'd imagine that changing the law for different types of plastic materials would be hard to govern.

How hard can it be ? even if our legislators cannot get their heads around the concept of "different kinds of plastic" they have enough advisers and civil servants ......

encyclopedia wrote: »

I also read somewhere that the biodegradable plastic bags can be far worse for the environment then ordinary plastic bags as they dont fully bio-degrade and can be harmful to the area that they are dumped. Here is a similar article http://www.mathaba.net/news/?x=623021

Er the article is suggesting that some types of biodegradable plastic bags are more harmful but not all ?

encyclopedia

Mike 1972 wrote: »

How hard can it be ? even if our legislators cannot get their heads around the concept of "different kinds of plastic" they have enough advisers and civil servants ......

I just meant that it’s easier to charge for all plastic bags then to have segregations. Charging for some bags and not others could be confusing for people working in shops throughout the country.

Looking at the situation optimistically the plastic bag levy was introduced in order to reduce the amount of bags that were being littered throughout the country and to promote the reuse of bags. I do think that the levy has reduced the amount of bags floating around outside which is great. I know myself that if any bags were free for me that forgetting the reusable bags would not be a problem as I could just use the free biodegradable ones. Before we know it we are back into old habits and the reuse of bags is an old trend. We would then be faced with the same problems as before but this time with biodegradable bags. The fact that they are biodegradable is slightly better but when you look at the whole lifecycle of the bag it changes things. We must consider the energy that was required to make the bag including manufacturing and transport versus people bringing their own bags which is not costing the environment any more.

Er the article is suggesting that some types of biodegradable plastic bags are more harmful but not all ?

I understand that but if Tesco can get it so wrong how are staff in shops supposed to know the difference when charging. Where is the line drawn then on which bags are charged. Should their be a charge on some biodegradable bags and not others. How will people be able to tell the difference between them.

It’s a similar debate to the plastic bag vs. paper bag, often people wonder why we don’t just use paper bags, according to http://www.natural-environment.com/blog/2008/01/12/paper-bags-vs-plastic-bags/ the energy used to create paper bags is 4 times that of plastic. I know this is not what you are saying but the point I'm making is that sometimes the alternative is not always better

The levy on bags is annoying but I do feel that it has a purpose.

Mike 1972

encyclopedia wrote: »

I just meant that it’s easier to charge for all plastic bags then to have segregations. Charging for some bags and not others could be confusing for people working in shops throughout the country.

I was suggesting a reduced levy on (fully) biodegradable bags (and perhaps recycled ones) but the reduction wouldnt necessairly be to zero.

It needent be confusing for shop assistants. The shops would only carry the one kind.

Remember when we used to have different rates of excise duty on petrol. It resulted in leaded petrol (previously the cheapest and virtually ubiqitous type) disappearing from forecourts over the space of 15 years. They didnt reduce the duty on unleaded petrol to zero. Nor did people assume that the fact that their car run on unleaded mean that the problem of vehicle exhaust pollution was now a thing of the past (well maybe a few did initially but it didnt take long for them to realise there were other issues)

Its not that difficult to have a sliding scale. It would virtually elliminate the use of the most harmful types (since it would no longer be economic for shops to even have them) and the scale could be revised in response to new developments or improved knowledge.

A well thought out system of levies is better than outright bans or imploring people to do the right thing. If properly applied there needent be any confusion since the best option becomes the cheapest one. The precedent is already there and its been proven to work.

Del2005

I say a program a while ago where a scientist was digging up dumps, I can't remember why. What they noticed was that nothing decomposed in the dumps even after 50 or 60 years, they could read and handle newspapers that they had dug up.

So even if the bag is biodegradable it won't degrade when it's dumped.

Much better to have one rule where people bring their own bags or pay the premium, which should be €1 as way to many people are still using disposable bags.