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"The Origin of Specious Nonsense"

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    #4082
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    CiaranMT wrote: »
    103067d1277674662-everyone-hated-my-22s-new-wheels-die-thread-die-.jpg
    Is somebody in acute denial ... or what???:)

    I thought that you guys were supposed to be 'hard headed' skeptics promoting the fearless investigation of all facts and going wherever the physical evidence leads???

    ... instead I find that ye are in acute denial ... trying to ignore and deny any evidence that invalidates your beliefs!!!

    ... ye are behaving just like like many other religious persons when their cherished (unfounded) beliefs are challenged ... you just declare the discussion ended ... and try to 'close down' the person making the challenge by whatever means are available to you.


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    #4083
    MrPudding
    Registered Users Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    J C wrote: »
    Is somebody in acute denial ... or what???:)
    No JC, he is embarrassed for you. You do not appear to the the mental faculties to realise you have been humiliated yourself. This thread, while it was once funny, is now getting to be a little sad.

    Sometimes it can initially seem to be ok to find someone funny. Then, after a while, you realise that there is actually something wrong with the person. At that point laughing at them become a bit awkward and, well, just wrong.

    That is where this thread is now JC. Initially it was funny, now it is like laughing at the handicapped. Wrong.

    MrP


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    #4084
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    MrPudding wrote: »
    No JC, he is embarrassed for you. You do not appear to the the mental faculties to realise you have been humiliated yourself. This thread, while it was once funny, is now getting to be a little sad.

    Sometimes it can initially seem to be ok to find someone funny. Then, after a while, you realise that there is actually something wrong with the person. At that point laughing at them become a bit awkward and, well, just wrong.

    That is where this thread is now JC. Initially it was funny, now it is like laughing at the handicapped. Wrong.

    MrP
    ... so somebody with whom you disagree is 'handicapped' ...

    ... the communists used to declare their opponents to be mentally ill ... and they locked them up in assylums ...

    ... what's it with Atheists and their friends ... labelling their opponents as mentally ill/defective???:(

    ... like I haved said ... ... ye are behaving just like many other religious/dogmatic persons (including Atheistic Communists) ...
    ... when their cherished (unfounded) beliefs are challenged ... they just declare the discussion ended ... and try to 'close down' the person making the challenge by whatever means are available to them
    ... including sending them to the Gulag ... or the nearest mental institution ... anything to stop being reminded just how invalid their unfounded beliefs really are!!! :(
    MrPudding wrote: »
    Initially it was funny, now it is like laughing at the handicapped. Wrong.

    MrP
    ... please spare us the sanctimonious pseudo-moralising!!!!:(


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    #4085
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    CiaranMT wrote: »
    "If triangles had a god, he would have three sides." - Charles de Secondat
    ... and I suppose, if Atheists had a god, he wouldn't believe in himself!!!:):D


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    #4086
    liamw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,780 ✭✭✭liamw


    J C wrote: »
    ... so somebody with whom you disagree is 'handicapped' ...

    No, just somebody who appears to have the mental capability of a 5 year old. Wait... that's not really fair on the kids.


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    #4087
    himnextdoor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,042 ✭✭✭himnextdoor


    J C wrote: »
    ... and I suppose, if Atheists had a god, he wouldn't believe in himself!!!:):D

    ... and I suppose that all of your conclusions are based on this kind of faulty logic!!! :):D

    It doesn't take intelligence to form plates but it does take intelligence to use one and then comes the will to make them. And sell them...


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    #4088
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    himnextdoor wrote: »
    ... and I suppose that all of your conclusions are based on this kind of faulty logic!!! :):D
    I thought it was quite witty!!!

    ... go on .... admit it ... it brought a smile to your face!!!:)


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    #4089
    himnextdoor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,042 ✭✭✭himnextdoor


    J C wrote: »
    I thought it was quite witty!!!

    ... go on .... admit it ... it brought a smile to your face!!!:)

    Alright, I admit it.:)

    But it still doesn't make sense though!:mad:


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    #4090
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    himnextdoor wrote: »
    Alright, I admit it.:)

    But it still doesn't make sense though!:mad:
    ... let's keep spreading the love!! :)


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    #4091
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    I see that Dublin is to become the European City of Science in 2012.

    Congratulations all round for this wonderful achievement!!!

    http://www.dublinscience2012.ie/


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    #4092
    sponsoredwalk
    Registered Users Posts: 3,038 ✭✭✭sponsoredwalk


    J C wrote: »
    I see that Dublin is to become the City of Science in 2012.

    Congratulations all round for this wonderful achievement!!!

    http://www.dublinscience2012.ie/

    It must hurt that this is the case for such a proponent of anti-science as
    yourself then, times are tough alright :):D


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    #4093
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    sponsoredwalk wrote: »
    It must hurt that this is the case for such a proponent of anti-science as
    yourself then, times are tough alright :):D
    As a proponent of Creation Science ... and a working conventional scientist myself, I take great pride in Dublin being chosen for this great honour.

    ... and can I let you in on a little secret ... times have never been better for Creation Science ... and its conventional cousin!!!:)

    ... so let's share the love!!!


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    #4094
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,416 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    J C wrote: »
    As a [...] working conventional scientist myself [...]
    You've made this weird claim before and I'm afraid nobody believes you for reasons that are painfully obvious to people who are working scientists.


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    #4095
    sponsoredwalk
    Registered Users Posts: 3,038 ✭✭✭sponsoredwalk


    J C wrote: »
    and a working conventional scientist myself,

    I know you avoided this question when people asked you about this back
    around October but since they've all left due to that shame akin to laughing
    at the handicapped would you mind even hinting at the kind of scientific (;))
    work you do - without letting the few of us left in this thread know too much :cool:


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    #4096
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    robindch wrote: »
    You've made this weird claim before and I'm afraid nobody believes you for reasons that are painfully obvious to people who are working scientists.
    The people of Ireland and Britain have drawn a line under 800 years of, often painful, history today ... and we are looking confidently forward to a brilliant future of mutual love, respect and shared prosperity in these islands ... can you not see that this also includes Creationists ... many of whom are very eminent scientists within their fields of expertise???

    Come on Robin ... we love and respect you!!!!

    ... in a purely platonic and Christian way ... I hasten to add!!!:)

    ... can you not find it in your heart to love and respect us in return?

    ... do we have to start a 'peace process' between Evolutionists and Creationists???

    ... or can we just simply love each other ... and respect our differences on the 'origins' question?


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    #4097
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,416 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    J C wrote: »
    ... can you not find it in your heart to love and respect us in return?
    Unfortunately, I have insuperable problems with the leaders of the creationist movement whom I find little different from thieves. And spending, on and off, some years discussing reality with creationists leads me to the sad conclusion that it's far more fun to watch the telly instead.
    J C wrote: »
    ... or can we just simply love each other ... and respect our differences on the 'origins' question?
    I respect your right to hold whatever beliefs you like, but I do not respect the beliefs themselves which are, frankly, bonkers.

    Sorry :)


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    #4098
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    robindch wrote: »
    Unfortunately, I have insuperable problems with the leaders of the creationist movement whom I find little different from thieves. And spending, on and off, some years discussing reality with creationists leads me to the sad conclusion that it's far more fun to watch the telly instead.
    I know many leading Creation Scientists and I have found them to be people of the highest integrity.
    I also count many Evolutionists amongst my friends ... and again I have found them to be honourable and very capable people.

    robindch wrote: »
    I respect your right to hold whatever beliefs you like, but I do not respect the beliefs themselves which are, frankly, bonkers.

    Sorry :)
    I am not asking you to accept my ideas ... just to respect my right to hold my beliefs ... and to not discriminate against myself and my fellow Creation Scientists because of our well-founded beliefs.


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    #4099
    himnextdoor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,042 ✭✭✭himnextdoor


    J C wrote: »
    I am not asking you to accept my ideas ... just to respect my right to hold my beliefs ... and to not discriminate against myself and my fellow Creation Scientists because of our well-founded beliefs.

    Unfortunately this does not resonate with the fact that your beliefs are based on the same scientific method which you claim to be poppycock when cited by evolutionists.

    Which parts of science did evolutionists make up; was it the electronic interaction of ions? The laws of magnetism? The molecular composition of DNA? Was Rutherford involved in the conspiracy? What about Einstein and his relativity nonsense?

    Evolutionism is a successful theory because science bears it out. You can't denounce science and then use the speed of light to support your own views; the speed of light is a scientifically derived figure.


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    #4100
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    himnextdoor wrote: »
    Unfortunately this does not resonate with the fact that your beliefs are based on the same scientific method which you claim to be poppycock when cited by evolutionists.

    Which parts of science did evolutionists make up; was it the electronic interaction of ions? The laws of magnetism? The molecular composition of DNA? Was Rutherford involved in the conspiracy? What about Einstein and his relativity nonsense?

    Evolutionism is a successful theory because science bears it out. You can't denounce science and then use the speed of light to support your own views; the speed of light is a scientifically derived figure.
    We have a difference of opinion and interpretation of the facts ... which is actually quite common across all areas of science ... and causes no difficulties when it doesn't touch on the 'origins question'.
    That is how science actually makes progress ... otherwise we would all still be geo-centreists and using leeches as the panacea for all illnesses!!!

    There should be no need for scientists (on either side) to feel threatened by the others conclusion ... Creation Scientists openly acknowledge the contribution made by Evolutionists to all areas of science ... and all we ask, in turn, is for a similar courtesy to be extended to us.

    The 'Information Age' in life sciences is about to dawn ... and once it does the perceptions of society will change dramatically and irrevocably!!!
    I would encourage Evolutionists to seize the moment and accept that life is powered by Intelligently Designed Complex Functional Specified Information. Whether that information arose spontaneously ... or was produced by an intelligence or intelligences unknown is another issue that may be debated ... in a respectful manner by both sides.


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    #4101
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,416 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    J C wrote: »
    I know many leading Creation Scientists and I have found them to be people of the highest integrity.
    The ones whom I've read and heard are flat-out liars, and bad ones at that.
    J C wrote: »
    just to respect my right to hold my beliefs ...
    As above, you are free to hold whatever beliefs you want to -- they're yours, not mine.
    J C wrote: »
    to not discriminate against myself and my fellow Creation Scientists because of our well-founded beliefs.
    I'm not "discriminating", I'm simply pointing out that the people who lead the creationist movement have the intellectual and moral sensibilities of thugs and that the people who consume and believe their tendentious nonsense are naive where they are not stupid.

    That's not discrimination, that's the truth, regardless of how uncomfortable it makes you feel, and regardless of how poorly it portrays individual creationists as well as the wider hootin', tootin', and batshit-crazy, creationist movement.


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    #4102
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    J C wrote: »
    I know many leading Creation Scientists and I have found them to be people of the highest integrity.

    Who? What are their names? Fields? Qualifications? Current academic posts? What papers have they published? In which journals?
    J C wrote:
    I am not asking you to accept my ideas ... just to respect my right to hold my beliefs ... and to not discriminate against myself and my fellow Creation Scientists because of our well-founded beliefs.

    They are not well-founded. You are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts. Once you start asserting something as truth in public, you sign away an exception from criticism; this is something creationists can't handle. 'OMGZZZ STOP DISCRIMINATING AGAINST US.'


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    #4103
    MrPudding
    Registered Users Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    J C wrote: »
    ... so somebody with whom you disagree is 'handicapped' ...
    No. Where did I say that? It appears that you have even less of a grasp of English as you do of science.
    J C wrote: »
    ... the communists used to declare their opponents to be mentally ill ... and they locked them up in assylums ...
    That’s as may be, but the fact that the communists declared people mentally ill when they were not does not mean there can’t be any mentally ill people any more. Whether a person, you for example, is mentally ill has nothing to do with the communists.
    J C wrote: »
    ... what's it with Atheists and their friends ... labelling their opponents as mentally ill/defective???]
    Severe delusions are a symptom of mental illness. I am merely concerned for your health.
    J C wrote: »
    ... like I haved said ... ... ye are behaving just like many other religious/dogmatic persons (including Atheistic Communists) ...
    ... when their cherished (unfounded) beliefs are challenged ... they just declare the discussion ended ... and try to 'close down' the person making the challenge by whatever means are available to them
    ... including sending them to the Gulag ... or the nearest mental institution ... anything to stop being reminded just how invalid their unfounded beliefs really are!!!
    I am not worried about anything. You have not challenged anything. You views are patently preposterous, idiotic and really only worthy of ridicule. The fact of the matter is, JC, I am embarrassed for you. Simple as that.
    J C wrote: »
    ... please spare us the sanctimonious pseudo-moralising!!!!
    It is not sanctimonious and it is not fake. The thread was funny, IMHO, now it isn’t.


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    #4104
    liamw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,780 ✭✭✭liamw


    Deleted User wrote: »
    What papers have they published? In which journals?

    The materialist evolutionist conspiracy won't allow creation science papers to be published!! :):D;):P:pac::D:):(:eek:confused::mad::):D


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    #4105
    MrPudding
    Registered Users Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    liamw wrote: »
    The materialist evolutionist conspiracy won't allow creation science papers to be published!! :):D;):P:pac::D:):(:eek:confused::mad::):D
    I don't even think VIZ would publish them...

    MrP


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    #4106
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    robindch wrote: »
    The ones whom I've read and heard are flat-out liars, and bad ones at that.
    Please be specific ... what lies have you been told?
    robindch wrote: »
    As above, you are free to hold whatever beliefs you want to -- they're yours, not mine.I'm not "discriminating", I'm simply pointing out that the people who lead the creationist movement have the intellectual and moral sensibilities of thugs and that the people who consume and believe their tendentious nonsense are naive where they are not stupid.

    That's not discrimination, that's the truth, regardless of how uncomfortable it makes you feel, and regardless of how poorly it portrays individual creationists as well as the wider hootin', tootin', and batshit-crazy, creationist movement.
    Your intemperate and unfounded generalisations against an entire group of eminent honourable people is the language of bigotry and religious intolerance down the centuries and has no place in civil discourse or modern society!!!:(:(

    You should be ashamed of yourself, Robin!!!
    ... and in so far as other Evolutionists and Atheists don't condemn what you have said, they share the shame with you!!!:(


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    #4107
    POINTBREAK
    Registered Users Posts: 2,135 ✭✭✭POINTBREAK


    J C wrote: »
    I know many leading Creation Scientists and I have found them to be people of the highest integrity.
    I also count many Evolutionists amongst my friends ... and again I have found them to be honourable and very capable people.
    -
    If you mean Scientists who believe in creation? I hear there are more Historians who deny the Holocaust than Scientists who support the creation hypothesis.


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    #4108
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    MrPudding wrote: »
    No. Where did I say that? It appears that you have even less of a grasp of English as you do of science.

    That’s as may be, but the fact that the communists declared people mentally ill when they were not does not mean there can’t be any mentally ill people any more. Whether a person, you for example, is mentally ill has nothing to do with the communists.
    You are using the same technique as totalitarian regimes down the years ... declaring anybody who disagrees with you to be insane ... so if the cap fits ... as it does in your case, you may wear it!!!!

    ... and it wasn't just the Communists who engaged in this disreputable activity ... the Nazis were also very quick to diagnose mental illness / deficiency in their opponents as well !!!:(

    It's the lowest form of debating and the ultimate form of ad hominim attack ... and you are bringing great discredit on Atheists and Atheism by openly expressing such unfounded hatred against me and my Christian Faith.:(

    Live and let live, I say!!!


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    #4109
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    POINTBREAK wrote: »
    -
    If you mean Scientists who believe in creation? I hear there are more Historians who deny the Holocaust than Scientists who support the creation hypothesis.
    Who told you this ... and what was the basis of their assertion ... given the fact that the vast majority of Creation Scientists haven't publicly asserted that they are Creationists ... because of the risk that such an admission would cause to their career prospects!!!


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    #4110
    POINTBREAK
    Registered Users Posts: 2,135 ✭✭✭POINTBREAK


    J C wrote: »
    Who told you this ... and what was the basis of their assertion ... given the fact that the vast majority of Creation Scientists haven't publicly asserted that they are Creationists ... because of the risk that such an admission would cause to their career prospects!!!
    -
    I was going to join the debate, but I have read through a good few pages and at best you are just a Troll.


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    #4111
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,416 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    J C wrote: »
    Please be specific ... what lies have you been told?
    Well, I was at a "lecture" given by (diploma-mill-doctor) Ham who explained that belief in evolution was directly responsible for people wanting to abort babies. He also claimed that atheists are incapable of knowing right from wrong. Heaven only knows what he says when I don't happen to be in the room and that's just a guy who's at the moderate end of the creationist spectrum. There are plenty more and they all produce the same scripted junk.
    J C wrote: »
    Your intemperate and unfounded generalisations against an entire group of eminent honourable people is the language of bigotry and religious hatred down the centuries and has no place in civil discourse or modern society!!!
    (a) it is not "unfounded" since it is based on first-hand experience over many years, in many places and with many people; (b) they are not "generalizations", they are reality; (c) if the leaders of the creationist movement were honorable, or wanted to be thought of as such, they would not spread offensive falsehoods (d) I'm not talking about religion, but about creationism and (e) it is only bigotry if it is false and directed at a large group of individuals; I am specifically talking about the ethical and intellectual standards of the tiny handful of individuals who manage the creationist movement and specifically not the uninformed or naive who follow them and (f) in the case of what leading creationists put about for financial or social gain, I'm afraid that straight talk most certainly does have a place in society :)


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