"The Origin of Specious Nonsense"

robindch

dead one wrote: »

Is your physics bias free.

I just love it when physics runs into politics. So hard to know which one is right, innit?

J C

POINTBREAK wrote: »

-
How does he feel about E=mc2? It becomes a very interesting equation if "c" keeps changing.

It sure does.
Who says that physics can't be interesting???

robindch

MrPudding wrote: »

If you are remotely interested, and actually willing to look at evidence [...]

Srsly, I don't believe that you could have typed those words!

J C

robindch wrote: »

I just love it when physics runs into politics. So hard to know which one is right, innit?

It can often be a matter of interpretation ... or whether somebody with an unfounded bias, has the most powerful position ... as Creation Scientist Galileo Galilei found out ... to his cost!!!:)

robindch

dead one wrote: »

for evolution to make any sense there would have to be some external energy source constantly pouring energy into Universe's system!

I wonder what that could be?! Let's rewind to March:

robindch wrote:

dead one wrote: »

The system of universe is constantly losing usable energy and never gaining.

[...] there's a source of energy in the Universe which you can actually see with you own eyes. Here's what you have to do:

1. Go into some open space during the daytime
2. If it's a cloudy day, wait until the skies are clear.
3. Tilt your head upwards and find the bright, hot, large, round, yellow thing
4. That's it!

Let us know how you get on, or if you need a hand out.

Common mistakes with this experimental protocol include trying to do it at night, with a cloudy sky or with your eyes closed.

J C

robindch wrote: »

Srsly, I don't believe that you could have typed those words!

I can't believe it myself either!!!!;)

robindch

J C wrote: »

or whether somebody with an unfounded bias, has the most poweful position ... as [...] Scientist Galileo Galilei found out ... to his cost!!!:)

Wasn't he the guy upon whom a bunch of unenlightened christian fanatics exercised their infinite love of mankind by first threatening with death, then imprisoning for life, for the unspeakable crime of suggesting that the chrisitan view of the world was complete bollocks?

robindch

J C wrote: »

The maximum distance that can be measured by direct trigonometry is only about 1,600 light years

That's only true if the value of pi is 3, like the bible suggests.

skregs

MrPudding wrote: »

Why do you and JC both insist on splitting your sentences up with ....?

Because its clearly one nutjob with two accounts.

J C

robindch wrote: »

Wasn't he the guy upon whom a bunch of unenlightened christian fanatics exercised their infinite love of mankind by first threatening with death, then imprisoning for life, for the unspeakable crime of suggesting that the chrisitan view of the world was complete bollocks?

... no ... he was the guy who was persecuted by the conventional scientists of the time because he questioned their unfounded belief in Geocentrism ... just because the Ancient Greeks believed it to be true.

... I know that Evolutionists on this thread yearn to engage in censorship of any ideas that conflict with their own ... but misquoting should be one step too far ... and you a Mod too.

For the record here was my actual post:

wrote:

Originally Posted by J C
or whether somebody with an unfounded bias, has the most poweful position ... as Creation Scientist Galileo Galilei found out ... to his cost!!!

robindch

J C wrote: »

he was the guy who was persecuted by the conventional scientists of the time because he questioned their unfounded belief in Geocentrism

While it's bad enough that you are either ignorant or dishonest about the chemical, physical and biological worlds, it's arguably worse that you don't even know the history of your own religion.

Galileo was tried, condemned and imprisoned by christians for daring to suggest that christian beliefs were the bollocks that they clearly were.

I'm reminded of your own complaints of persecution recently in this thread and wonder how you would react to the kind of genuine persecution that your religious forebears enjoyed handing out.

J C

robindch wrote: »

That's only true if the value of pi is 3, like the bible suggests.

... it all depends on how many decimal places you use to express it, Robin!!!!!:D:):eek:[

robindch

J C wrote: »

misquoting should be one step too far

Am surprised to see you get upset about other people misquoting you

Anyhow, I've reinserted the "[...]" that was somehow deleted during posting.

J C

robindch wrote: »

While it's bad enough that you are either ignorant or dishonest about the chemical, physical and biological worlds, it's arguably worse that you don't even know the history of your own religion.

Galileo was tried, condemned and imprisoned by christians for daring to suggest that christian beliefs were the bollocks that they clearly were.

I'm reminded of your own complaints of persecution recently in this thread and wonder how you would react to the kind of genuine persecution that your religious forebears enjoyed handing out.

Persecution by Theists or Atheists is equally wrong !!!!

... and I am being treated like Galileo by your 'imprisoning' me on this thread ... on your forum ... because you don't like what I am saying!!!

I sometimes wonder what would happen to me if you had the power over me that the Vatican had over Galileo!!!:eek:

J C

robindch wrote: »

Am surprised to see you get upset about other people misquoting you

Anyhow, I've reinserted the "[...]" that was somehow deleted during posting.

I am not upset ... just concerned (but not surprised) that you broke your own rules!!!!:eek:

J C

J C wrote: »

I sometimes wonder what would happen to me if you had the power over me that the Vatican had over Galileo!!!:eek:

Nothing.

There's the difference between religious theocracy and reasoned democracy.

robindch

J C wrote: »

... and I am being treated like Galileo by your 'imprisoning' me on this thread ... on your forum ... because you don't like what I am saying!!!

Not in the slightest. I've said it many times -- I do like what you are saying because you're doing a great amount of good for the causes of evolution and atheism by showing very clearly how nuts the most popular alternatives are. We could never do that ourselves and your efforts are appreciated hugely.

You're confined to this thread only by gentleman's agreement. If, at some point in the future, your posts rise to a standard which does not conflict with the forum charter, then you will be most welcome to take part in mature, reasoned debates elsewhere within the forum.

But until that time, and so long as you continue doing little more than endlessly soapboxing, your posts will be confined to this thread alone.

robindch

J C wrote: »

just concerned that you broke your own rules!!!!

Yes, and as I said above, as soon as you noted what had happened, I immediately edited the post to correct my unforgivable error. Something I must put down to the deleterious effects of half a bottle of a rather excellent Californian Pinot Noir.

Anyhow, I'm thrilled to see that you've come around to the view that misquoting people or misrepresenting them is dishonest!

J C

robindch wrote: »

Not in the slightest. I've said it many times -- I do like what you are saying because you're doing a great amount of good for the causes of evolution and atheism by showing very clearly how nuts the most popular alternatives are. We could never do that ourselves and your efforts are appreciated hugely.

You're confined to this thread only by gentleman's agreement. If, at some point in the future, your posts rise to a standard which does not conflict with the forum charter, then you will be most welcome to take part in mature, reasoned debates elsewhere within the forum.

But until that time, and so long as you continue doing little more than endlessly soapboxing, your posts will be confined to this thread alone.

I see ... could I point out that a 'gentlemans agreement' is reached voluntarily between two people of equal power ... in this case you are mandating that I stay confined to this thread ... and, as you are a Mod, the power relationship is unequal.

I make reasoned, polite, impersonal postings on a forum where personalised impolite postings appear to be the norm ... (at least in relationship to Creationists, and indeed any other person who questions your unfounded ideas) so I don't see what I am doing to deserve this censure ... and 'trumped up' charges of 'trolling' or 'soap boxing'.

The parallells with Galileo's 'voluntary' house arrest are uncanny ... he too could anonamously release his ideas ... but his 'gentlemans agreement' with the Vatican specified that he coundn't do so openly. He was also allowed to live in relative luxury ... which is much better than would happen a Creation Scientist, if s/he lost their livelihood by being 'outed' and sacked from his/her job ... as has been advocated repeatedly and vociferously by yourself and your fellow Materialists on this thread!!

... so while Galileo was treated with 'kid gloves' by the Vatican ... no such relatively benign fate awaits any scientist who questions todays Atheistic 'orthodoxy' on the Origins Issue ... if some of the posters on this thread are anything to go by!!!!

J C

Deleted User wrote: »

Nothing.

There's the difference between religious theocracy and reasoned democracy.

The millions who died in the gulags and the other Atheist-sponsored tyrannies of the 20th Century would beg to disagree ... and the disgraceful way that Christian posters are treated on this forum ... where they are ganged up on, in a frenzie of emotive and often insulting postings ... to run them off your forum ... and if that fails (as in my case) ... pushed into a corner on what they may or may not say and are told that they should be sacked from any science position they hold ... indicates that the world would become a very uncomfortable place for all Theists if you guys ever get power over the rest of Humanity!!!:(


Indeed, Materialists might not even be safe from each other in such a society ... that refuses to recognise the right of people to think for themselves and punishes differences of opinon and freedom of expression with job discrimination and enforced incarceration in assylums on 'trumped up' charges of 'insanity'!!!

J C

robindch wrote: »

Yes, and as I said above, as soon as you noted what had happened, I immediately edited the post to correct my unforgivable error. Something I must put down to the deleterious effects of half a bottle of a rather excellent Californian Pinot Noir.
Anyhow, I'm thrilled to see that you've come around to the view that misquoting people or misrepresenting them is dishonest!

Was it really the drink that did it ... or just your personal bias raising its head???!!:eek:

I have never misquoted anybody ... I always quote them exactly and precisely.

Delirium

J C wrote: »

The millions who died in the gulags and the other Atheist-sponsored tyrannies of the 20th Century would beg to disagree ... and the disgraceful way that Christian posters are treated on this forum ... where they are ganged up on, in a frenzie of emotive and often insulting postings ... to run them off your forum ... and if that fails (as in my case) ... pushed into a corner on what they may or may not say and are told that they should be sacked from any science position they hold ... indicates that the world would become a very uncomfortable place for all Theists if you guys ever get power over the rest of Humanity!!!:(

do you have some sort of quota that requires you to complain about being persecuted on this thread?

And to keep repeating this nonsense idea that everyone here is calling for all Christians to be sacked from any scientific position. No one has called for that so would you kindly give it a rest.

Indeed, Materialists might not even be safe from each other in such a society ... that refuses to recognise the right of people to think for themselves and punishes differences of opinon and freedom of expression with job discrimination and enforced incarceration in assylums on 'trumped up' charges of 'insanity'!!!

What has that do to do with the topic? If you've a problem with posts, would you just report them. Otherwise shut up complaining about them!

There are plenty of posters on the thread that have been more than respectful to you, even though you continue to fly the flag for your religious creation myth in face of overwhelming evidence showing that isn't how things came to happen.

EDIT: apologies to the mods if any of this is backseat modding.

J C

koth wrote: »

do you have some sort of quota that requires you to complain about being persecuted on this thread?

And to keep repeating this nonsense idea that everyone here is calling for all Christians to be sacked from any scientific position. No one has called for that so would you kindly give it a rest.

OK, if a Christian is prepared to leave his/her brain at the doors of your institutions ... and repeats all of your myths without criticism ye will let him/her keep their job ... but you guys have made it absolutely clear that any criticism of the Evolutionist position will incur immediate censure up to and including job discrimination and sacking!!!

koth wrote: »

What has that do to do with the topic? If you've a problem with posts, would you just report them. Otherwise shut up complaining about them!

There are plenty of posters on the thread that have been more than respectful to you, even though you continue to fly the flag for your religious creation myth in face of overwhelming evidence showing that isn't how things came to happen.

EDIT: apologies to the mods if any of this is backseat modding.

I have no problem with the posts, as I believe in free speech ... and standing on my own two feet when it comes to defending my beliefs.
I have no problem with challenges to my ideas ... and in turn I robustly challenge other people's ideas ... but I draw the line at unfounded personal remarks directed against myself (or others).
For example, the statements that I am insane are totally unfounded ... and they are very sinister when one considers that just such a strategy was deployed by Atheistic Dictatorships in the 20th Century to lock up ... and in some cases murder dissidents.

Delirium

J C wrote: »

OK, if a Christian is prepared to leave his/her brain at the doors of your institutions ... and repeats all of your myths without criticism ye will let him/her keep their job ... but you guys have made it absolutely clear that any criticism of the Evolutionist position will incur immediate censure up to and including job discrimination and sacking!!!

Again you're twisting what has been said to suit your own argument. The only thing people have a problem with is if a person has a job teaching science for example. And they use that position to teach their religious beliefs as fact. Thats an entirely reasonable stance to take.

I have no problem with the posts, as I believe in free speech ... and standing on my own two feet when it comes to defending my beliefs.

yes you do have a problem with the posts ,as you've complained about them numerous times.

I have no problem with challenges to my ideas ... and in turn I robustly challenge other people's ideas ... but I draw the line at unfounded personal remarks directed against myself (or others).

Then report them and don't be dragging the thread off topic.

For example, the statements that I am insane are totally unfounded ... and they are quite sinister indeed when one considers that just such a strategy was deployed by Atheistic Dictatorships in the 20th Century to lock up ... and in some cases murder dissidents.

Those two situatons are worlds apart, but you just can't resist the urge to bang on about atheistic dictatorships. I think it's genuinely insulting to a person, regardless of their beliefs, who have suffered at the hands of a dictators for you to say that it is comparable with some guessing if your mental faculties are functioning correctly.

robindch

J C wrote: »

you are mandating that I stay confined to this thread ... and, as you are a Mod, the power relationship is unequal.

Think of it in christian terms -- the local gods (that's Dades and myself) love you to bits and so long as you maintain your soapbox posting style, we love you to post here in this thread only. The sin of soapboxing in other threads will results in either be deleted or moved here and if sustained, may result in you being sent away from our love for a week or more.

However, like the christan deity, we value your freedom to choose and we genuinely want to you choose freely to stick to these rules. This is absolutely not a mafia-style mandate, but practical, christian-style, deity-level love.

Bloody Nipples

J C wrote: »

OK, if a Christian is prepared to leave his/her brain at the doors of your institutions ...

anecdotal evidence suggests no brain to leave...

J C wrote: »

OK and repeats all of your myths without criticism ye will let him/her keep their job ...

Myth –noun
1.
a traditional or legendary story, usually concerning some being or hero or event, with or without a determinable basis of fact or a natural explanation, especially one that is concerned with deities or demigods and explains some practice, rite, or phenomenon of nature.
2.
stories or matter of this kind: realm of myth.
3.
any invented story, idea, or concept: His account of the event is pure myth.

Evidence:http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleListURL&_method=list&_ArticleListID=1763051530&_sort=r&_st=13&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=c8a9cb5690c3b55dded9c3bc0aa9f85a&searchtype=a

J C wrote: »

but you guys have made it absolutely clear that any criticism of the Evolutionist position will incur immediate censure up to and including job discrimination and sacking!!!

Seeing as that would be against the constitution of pretty much any country of note, good luck arguing the persecution racket :rolleyes:

J C wrote: »

such a strategy was deployed by Atheistic Dictatorships in the 20th Century to lock up ... and in some cases murder dissidents.

Can we develop some kind of atheist variation of Godwin's Law?

Genghiz Cohen

Bloody Nipples wrote: »

Can we develop some kind of atheist variation of Godwin's Law?

Thereisnogodwin's law?

J C

koth wrote: »

Again you're twisting what has been said to suit your own argument. The only thing people have a problem with is if a person has a job teaching science for example. And they use that position to teach their religious beliefs as fact. Thats an entirely reasonable stance to take.

If you agree that the 'origins story' for both Atheistic Humanists (Abiogenesis and Spontaneous Evolution from Pondkind to Mankind) and Mono-theists (Theistic Evolution, ID and Special Creation) isn't taught in Science Class, you could have a point ... but as long as you insist on teaching your religious beliefs on where you came from ... and where you think you are going ... the same opportunity should, in fairness, be offered to other religions ... and especially the Christian religion (of all denominations) which is still held by the vast majority of people in this society!!!

koth wrote: »

yes you do have a problem with the posts ,as you've complained about them numerous times.

Then report them and don't be dragging the thread off topic.

I'll challenge error wherever I see it ... and I won't rely on anybody else to do so for me or anybody else!!!

koth wrote: »

Those two situatons are worlds apart, but you just can't resist the urge to bang on about atheistic dictatorships. I think it's genuinely insulting to a person, regardless of their beliefs, who have suffered at the hands of a dictators for you to say that it is comparable with some guessing if your mental faculties are functioning correctly.

But they're not 'worlds apart' ... and discrimination and bullying is going on right now against Christians in other parts of the World .

I had hoped that Irish Atheists would be different ... but agression, name-calling and prejudicial personalised comments are all here on this forum 'in spades'!!!

I would like to come onto your forum and be welcomed as an equal to discuss both your ideas and mine in a courteous manner ...
I don't think that this is too much to ask ... but this hasn't been possible to date.

Delirium

J C wrote: »

If you agree that the 'origins story' for both Atheistic Humanists (Abiogenesis and Spontaneous Evolution from Pondkind to Mankind) and Christians (Theistic Evolution and Special Creation) isn't taught in Science Class, you could have a point ... but as long as you insist on teaching your religious beliefs on where you came from ... and where you think you are going ... the same opportunity should, in fairness, be offered to other religions ... and especially the Christian religion (of all denominations) which is still held by the vast majority of people in this society!!!

I've repeatedly said no religious stories should be taught in the science class. Therefore I treat all religions the same in that regard.

I'll challenge error wherever I see it ... and I won't rely on anybody else to do so for me or anybody else!!!

no one said you can't challenge any errors.

But they're not 'worlds apart' ... and this type of discrimination and bullying is going on right now against Christians.

I had hoped that Irish Atheists would be different ... but, if this forum is anything to go by, the same agression, name-calling and prejudicial personalised comments that were often a precursour to a 'knock on the door' from the Gestapo or the KGB in other places and times, are all here on this forum 'in spades'!!!

it really is different. you've had none of rights infringed upon. i'll say it again, you're insulting people who experience true persecution. at worst, some posters may have been rude to you.

I would like to come onto your forum and be welcomed as an equal to discuss both your ideas and mine in courteous manner ... but this doesn't seem to be possible.

sorry that you feel that way.

J C

koth wrote: »

I've repeatedly said no religious stories should be taught in the science class. Therefore I treat all religions the same in that regard.

... so Abiogenesis/Evolution (which is the 'Origins story' of Atheism) shouldn't be taught then??

I would personally favour the teaching of Abiogenesis/Evolution, including evidence against it ... as well as ID ... for a complete science education on the issue of 'origins' .

koth wrote: »

no one said you can't challenge any errors.

... I was told to report them ... but I prefer to simply challenge them!!!
In fairness the Mods have enough to do, without adjudicating on the errors of posters on this thread ... which would be a full-time job!!!:eek:

koth wrote: »

it really is different. you've had none of rights infringed upon. i'll say it again, you're insulting people who experience true persecution. at worst, some posters may have been rude to you.

... If Christians stood up for themselves at the first signs of persecution ... they might never experience it ... the price of freedom is eternal vigilance ... and it is also the price of avoiding persecution!!!!

koth wrote: »

sorry that you feel that way.

Lets all turn over a new leaf ... and lets discuss the issues rationally ... and with mutual respect.