"The Origin of Specious Nonsense"

Turtwig

King Mob wrote: »

Most hilarious JC claim yet.

Hang on a second...I'm pretty sure I made that claim about the fall before...was it here or in the BCP thread...:):o

robindch

J C wrote: »

koth wrote: »

Just so I'm clear, the Fall you're referring to is god expelling Adam and Eve from the garden of eden?

Yes.

Just FYI - the christian "fall" story -- which was previously, similar or identical jewish or sumerian myths -- refers to the act of rebellion by mankind against the authority of the deity.

The "fall" was certainly not the deity's response to this rebellion.

Delirium

J C wrote: »

Yes.

genesis 3: 2-3

genesis 3: 2-3

The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’”

god warns adam and eve that they will die if they touch the fruit of the tree of knowledge (which incidentally is a lie if you read the rest of the fable).

So they weren't immortal, even in the garden of eden.

J C

koth wrote: »

genesis 3: 2-3




god warns adam and eve that they will die if they touch the fruit of the tree of knowledge (which incidentally is a lie if you read the rest of the fable).

So they weren't immortal, even in the garden of eden.

They were immortal ... up until they triggered the entry of death into the Universe by partaking of Satan's 'tree' of the knowledge of good and evil.

This is confirmed in Romans 5:12
Death in Adam, Life in Christ

12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—

IrishKnight

Which Adam and Eve is this now? The ones created at the same time or the ones were Adam was created then Eve from his rib?

Delirium

J C wrote: »

They were immortal ... up until they triggered the entry of death into the Universe by partaking of Satan's 'tree' of the knowledge of good and evil.

This is confirmed in Romans 5:12
Death in Adam, Life in Christ

12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—

Immortals can't die. god told adam and eve that if they touched the fruit they would die. So either they were immortal and god lied to them or they weren't immortal.

But since we don't have an adam and eve who are thousands of years old, they clearly weren't immortal.

Immortals live forever, JC, living for a very long time doesn't make anyone immortal. It just makes them old.

J C

koth wrote: »

Immortals can't die. god told adam and eve that if they touched the fruit they would die. So either they were immortal and god lied to them or they weren't immortal.

But since we don't have an adam and eve who are thousands of years old, they clearly weren't immortal.

Immortals live forever, JC, living for a very long time doesn't make anyone immortal. It just makes them old.

There was no sin and therefore no death before the Fall.
Because there was no death ... Adam and Eve were potentially immortal ... but because they fell for what Satan had to say ... sin entered the world ... and with sin came death.

IrishKnight

J C wrote: »

...no death before the Fall.
Because there was no death...

Must have been rather messy then, all those animals, plants, fungi, bacteria, how did the earth ever coupe with all that...

Still waiting on your answers to my questions...

Delirium

J C wrote: »

There was no sin and therefore no death before the Fall.
Because there was no death ... Adam and Eve were potentially immortal ... but because they fell for what Satan had to say ... sin entered the world ... and with sin came death.

there was death before the fall, as god warned adam and eve that they could die if they touched the fruit. Therefore death was a possibility in the garden of eden.

btw I'm a potential immortal right up to the instance I die :P

StupidLikeAFox

J C wrote: »

It's literally staring you in the face ... every time you look in a mirror!!:)

The fact that Im standing in front of a mirror proves nothing.

JC can you not see that everything you are saying here, all you believe and all your opinions are all based on the contents of one single book? In fact it is only your interpretation of the book? Not to mention this book is 2,000 years old?

Do you not think that somewhere along the line it may have lost a bit of reliability?

Mr. Boo

J C wrote: »

There was no sin and therefore no death before the Fall.

As a scientist, unfounded statements such as this - and most everything else in this thread - baffle me. I find it hard to believe this whole thing is not just trolling tbh. It worries me that people who vote, operate heavy machinery, and procreate could think like this. But this single minded denialism does explain much of the world's problems.

himnextdoor

J C wrote: »

There was no sin and therefore no death before the Fall.
Because there was no death ... Adam and Eve were potentially immortal ... but because they fell for what Satan had to say ... sin entered the world ... and with sin came death.

There are a couple of things here.

Firstly, if the serpent was indeed Satan, then the reason that God is punishing mankind is because Adam and Eve, who were both naive, succumbed to the most powerful entity that God ever created. This is a similar reaction to threatening children with excommunication when they are abused by priests.

Secondly, my understanding is that the serpent is a forebear of the snake and is not Satan at all. Angels, and Satan is an angel, do not have offspring therefore, whose offspring will be bruised by the heel of Eve's offspring?

J C

Mr. Boo wrote: »

As a scientist, unfounded statements such as this - and most everything else in this thread - baffle me. I find it hard to believe this whole thing is not just trolling tbh. It worries me that people who vote, operate heavy machinery, and procreate could think like this. But this single minded denialism does explain much of the world's problems.

You are conflating people's beliefs with their abilities ... a classic tactic of religious bigots down the years!!!
... 'they believe X ... so therefore they are morons / dangerous / unemployable' is the stock in trade of sectarianism!!!

I could also conflate the beliefs of Evolutionists in the powers of pondslime to spontaneously generate mankind, with the ability of Evolutionists to vote, operate heavy machinery, and procreate.
... but I don't do this, because I recognise that the beliefs of Evolutionists are their own business ... and many Evolutionists are people of excellent ability when it comes to voting, operating heavy machinery, and procreation ... irrespective of how they
believe they originated!!!

Delirium

J C wrote: »

I could also conflate the irrational and unfounded beliefs of Evolutionists in the powers of pondslime to spontaneously generate mankind, with the ability of Evolutionists to vote, operate heavy machinery, and procreate.

we're 4600 posts in and you still don't get it.

robindch

koth wrote: »

we're 4600 posts in and you still don't get it.

4,600?

Koth -- we're almost six years and 30,000 posts in :eek:

Mr. Boo

J C wrote: »

You are conflating people's beliefs with their abilities ... a classic tactic of religious bigots down the years!!!
... 'they believe X ... so therefore they are morons / dangerous / unemployable' is the stock in trade of sectarianism!!!

I could also conflate the beliefs of Evolutionists in the powers of pondslime to spontaneously generate mankind, with the ability of Evolutionists to vote, operate heavy machinery, and procreate.
... but I don't do this, because I recognise that the beliefs of Evolutionists are their own business ... and many Evolutionists are people of excellent ability when it comes to voting, operating heavy machinery, and procreation ... irrespective of how they
believe they originated!!!

It's not a tactic. It's simply an opinion that people who say things like 'There was no sin and therefore no death before the Fall' have, at least, part-time carers, and perhaps periodic psychiatric assessment. Comparison of a hypothesis (based on thousands of independent observations, of fossil record and real-time biological processes) to a badly edited, self-contradictory story book, are facile and pointless. No amount of assertion makes it sound less ridiculous. People whose moral structures are based on a collage of cultist opinions and fables, gathered together from times when stoning and crucifixion were the norm, should be treated with caution, because you never know when they might decide to do god's work with their daddy's hunting rifle, or some heavy machinery. And worse again, they're likely to vote for some equally misguided fanatic. *cough* George Bush *cough, cough*

Mr. Boo

I mean, sin is the cause of death? Come on!

himnextdoor

And suppose Adam and Eve never ate the food that God made for them to eat; would they have starved to death or just disappeared into animated, immortal nothingness?

And why did God put that damn tree there in the first place?

And according to the Bible, Adam and Eve didn't die from eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, they died because God killed them for doing so by starving them to death.

After they had eaten the forbidden fruit, they could have eaten from the tree of eternal life, which is why God kicked them out, which suggests to me that a) they were not immortal, ever and b) they should have eaten from that tree first then we would have at least two gods and a goddess.

Mr. Boo

And, while we're at it, what's going on in Deuteronomy? Mutilated or crushed genitals exclude you from god's assembly? You can't have different sized measuring implements in your gaf, otherwise you would be considered an abomination? there's more fine print than a car insurance policy.

sponsoredwalk

J C wrote: »

I could also conflate the beliefs of Evolutionists in the powers of pondslime to spontaneously generate mankind, with the ability of Evolutionists to vote, operate heavy machinery, and procreate.
... but I don't do this, because I recognise that the beliefs of Evolutionists are their own business ... and many Evolutionists are people of excellent ability when it comes to voting, operating heavy machinery, and procreation ... irrespective of how they
believe they originated!!!

I think it's just great how neutered you've become throughout the course
of this thread. Every single claim of any potential substance you've ever
made has been thrown back in your face more than once & you've been
able to do nothing but come out with petty slurs & conclusions based on
wholly flawed assumptions. Why don't you buy the book 'Evolution', by
Futuyma, & then go through it in this thread with us point by point
finding errors & mistakes? I'm reading the book slowly & would love to
be continually updated on the propaganda I've just swallowed without
question in praise of Dagon. You in JC? A clean slate is offered up to you,
I'll completely forget all the mistakes you've made in this thread if
you are willing to go through a serious textbook, one chapter at a time,
highlighting the flaws, wild claims & assumptions that the religion of
evolution is based on :cool:

Delirium

robindch wrote: »

4,600?

Koth -- we're almost six years and 30,000 posts in :eek:

:eek:

POINTBREAK

Mr. Boo wrote: »

And, while we're at it, what's going on in Deuteronomy? Mutilated or crushed genitals exclude you from god's assembly? You can't have different sized measuring implements in your gaf, otherwise you would be considered an abomination? there's more fine print than a car insurance policy.

-
I wonder how they policed this? I like to think everyone going in to Church had to get their lads out.... lol

mehfesto

If god is all knowing, knowing past, present and future of everything - why bother create us at all? Sure he'd know a massive majority of us would fail in what he wanted us to do before he even started.

Now excuse me, I have to go to work in the post processing of the weird and haunted milk and cheese factory - I work in 'Mysterious Wheys'...

POINTBREAK

koth wrote: »

we're 4600 posts in and you still don't get it.

.
He can't afford to get it. If he ever understood everything he believes in would become meaningless.

himnextdoor

POINTBREAK wrote: »

.
He can't afford to get it. If he ever understood everything he believes in would become meaningless.

I think that J C realises that science is on the verge of measuring God and all his posts are attempts to throw down flak in order to fudge the implications.

God is a property of space and that to me is just as impressive, if not more so, than a spiteful, jealous God who loves to burn children.

Sarky

mehfesto wrote: »

If god is all knowing, knowing past, present and future of everything - why bother create us at all? Sure he'd know a massive majority of us would fail in what he wanted us to do before he even started.

There's no getting away from the fact that if God exists, he's either incompetent or a massive jerk.

J C

POINTBREAK wrote: »

.
He can't afford to get it. If he ever understood everything he believes in would become meaningless.

Therein lies the dilemma for the Materialist.

All life seems to have been intelligently designed ... but the Materialist cannot allow a Divine Foot inside the (closed) doors of his/her mind ... and thus they reject ID with their 'eyes wide shut'!!!!:)

J C

Sarky wrote: »

There's no getting away from the fact that if God exists, he's either incompetent or a massive jerk.

The fact that some people may behave like jerks ... doesn't mean that the loving God who created them is also a jerk.

He will deliver His justice on those who freely reject His mercy ... and His mercy on those who freely ask for it.

POINTBREAK

J C wrote: »

Therein lies the dilemma for the Materialist.

All life seems to have been intelligently designed ... but the Materialist cannot allow a Divine Foot inside the (closed) doors of his/her mind ... and thus they reject ID with their 'eyes wide shut'!!!!:)

-
In Ireland alone there is at least 12,000 different species of insect. New ones are discovered every year. And that's just Ireland. You would need to be one busy fecker...... if you get my meaning.

robindch

J C wrote: »

All life seems to have been intelligently designed

There. Got it one. Only took 7 years and ~30,000 posts.

A credit to creationists, worldwide.