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"The Origin of Specious Nonsense"
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... all of the fruits of modern operative science.
I'll save the thread the effort and map out what happens next.
JC repeats this ten times as an answer when he is asked for specific examples, tells us all he can argue better and is smarter than us and then the merry dance begins again.0 -
Regarding J C :0
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First off, as an addendum to my previous post, a thought occurred to me that we might be dealing with a kind of "Sideshow Bob Roberts" type scenario with JC's list so I took a more profound look at these "creation scientists".
Dr. Geoff Barnard
Dr. Barnard is a researched in animal epdiemiology, specifically the transmission of encephalopathies.
Research description
Publications:
- Barnard G, Hopkins L, Moorthie S, Seilly D, Tonks P, Dabaghian R, Clewley JP, Coward J, McConnell I (2007) Direct detection of disease associated prions in brain and lymphoid tissue using antibodies recognizing the extreme N-terminus of PrPC. Prion, 1:121-127.
- Talbot DCS, Ogborne RM, Dadd T, Adlercreutz H, Barnard G, Bugel S, Kohen F, Marlin S, Piron J, Cassidy A, Powell J (2007) Monoclonal Antibody-Based Time-Resolved Fluorescence Immunoassays for Daidzein, Genistein, and Equol in Blood and Urine: Application to the Isoheart Intervention Study. Clinical Chemistry, 53:748-756.
- Dabaghian, R, Barnard G, McConnell I, Clewley JP (2006) An immunoassay for the pathological form of the prion protein based on denaturation and time resolved fluorometry. Journal of Virological Methods 132:85-91.
- Brabin L, Roberts SA, Fairbrother E, Mandal D, Higgins SP, Chandiok S, Wood P, Barnard G, Kitchener HC (2005) Factors affecting vaginal pH levels among female adolescents attending genitourinary medicine clinics. Sexually Transmitted Infections 81:483-487.
- Pan T, Chang B, Wong P, Li C, Li R, Kang S-C, Robinson JD, Thompsett AR, Tein P, Yin S, Barnard G, McConnell I, Brown DR, Wisniewski T, Sy M-S (2005) An Aggregation-Specific Enzyme-Linked Immunosorbent Assay: Detection of Conformational Differences between Recombinant PrP Protein Dimers and PrPSc Aggregates. Journal of Virology 79: 12355-12364.
- Brabin L, Fairbrother E, Mandal D, Roberts SA, Higgins SP, Chandiok S, Wood P, Barnard G, Kitchener HC (2005) Biological and hormonal markers of chlamydia, human papillomavirus and bacterial vaginosis among adolescents attending genitourinary medicine clinics. Sexually Transmitted Infections 81:128-132.
- Minor P, Newham J, Jones N, Bergeron C, Gregori L, Asher D, van Engelenburg F, Stroebel T, Vey M, Barnard G, Head M and the WHO Working Group on International Reference Materials for the Diagnosis and Study of Transmissible Spongiform Encephalopathies (TSEs) (2004) Standards for the assay of Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease specimens. Journal of General Virology 85:1777-1784.
- Kang S-C, Li R, Wang C, Pan T, Liu T, Rubenstein R, Barnard G, Wong B-S, Sy M-S (2003) Guanidine hydrochloride extraction and detection of prion proteins in mouse and hamster by ELISA. Journal of Pathology 199: 534-541.
- Barnard G, Sy M-S (2003) The Diagnosis of Transmissible Spongiform Encephalopathies using Differential Extraction and DELFIA. In: Nunnally B, Krull I (eds.) Prions and Mad Cow Disease. New York: Marcel Dekker, pp. 277-315.
Dr. Andrew Bosanquet
Dr. Bosanquet is not a microbiologist as implied on the list but rather an oncologist. Some of his research includes:
Assessment of fludarabine plus cyclophosphamide for patients with chronic lymphocytic leukaemia (the LRF CLL4 Trial): a randomised controlled trial
Mutation of p53 and consecutive selective drug resistance in B-CLL occurs as a consequence of prior DNA-damaging chemotherapy
High dose methylprednisolone can induce remissions in CLL patients with p53 abnormalities
Dr. Dennis L. Englin
Yet more misrepresentation as Englin is an environmental biologist and not a geophysicist. His academic profile at TMC lists only one research area, the thermotolerance of algae in resevoirs, which has yielded just one conference paper.
Faculty Page - Dr. Dennis L. Englin
Dr. James A. Huggins
Again some selected publications:- "Habitat Use by Three Species of Shrew in Western Tennessee," Journal of the Tennessee Academy of Science. (January 2002) (with M.E. Smith & M.L. Kennedy)
- "A comparison of small mammal capture success in untreated and lysol-treated Sherman live traps," Journal of the Tennessee Academy of Science. (January 2001) (with L.M. Gilley, M.L. Kennedy, H.L. Hopkins, and K. Hopper)
- "The frequency and occurrence of aggressive behavior in a male lion-tail macaque (Macaca silenus) population and an examination of the effects of kava kava (Piper methysticum) on aggression levels," Journal of the Tennessee Academy of Science. (January 2000) by James A. Huggins and Wayne Wofford (with A. Grigg)
- "Aggressive interactions and behaviors of three, male western lowland gorillas (Gorilla gorilla gorilla)," Journal of the Tennessee Academy of Science. (January 2000) by James A. Huggins and Wayne Wofford (with M. Tillery)
- "The effects of captivity on the social and behavioral patterns of meerkats," Journal of the Tennessee Academy of Science. (January 1999) by James A. Huggins and Wayne Wofford (with G. Heathcott and G. C. Brady)
- "Utilization of mineral licks by mammals with special emphasis on white-tailed deer," Journal of the Tennessee Academy of Science. (January 1999) by James A. Huggins and Wayne Wofford (with L. Wood)
- "Home range dynamics of field mice in diverse habitats as determined by powdertracking," Journal of the Tennessee Academy of Science. (January 1997) by James A. Huggins and Wayne Wofford (with L. James)
- "Variation in chromosome number in the southern short-tailed shrew Blarina carolinensis," Mammalogica. (January 1992) (with M. L. Beck and C. J. Biggers)
- "Morphological variation in the masked shrew (Sorex cinereus) and the smokey shrew (S. fumeus)," American Midland Naturalist. (January 1989) (with M. L. Kennedy)
I would go on but I think that that's sufficient to demonstrate my point. All you have illustrated with this list, JC, is a group of people suffering from cognitive dissonance, so you should fit right in. The fact that these people have locked their religious beliefs away from rational inquiry has no bearing on evolution.
Then there are the other problems with the list.
First off, are the people who don't feature anywhere on the web except for lists like the one on AIG. No research, no academic pages, nothing. Like this one, for example:
Dr. Kimberly Berrine
Google Search
Google Scholar Search
Then there's the case of Leonid Korochkin who is listed twice on the list.
Prof. Leonid Korochkin, Molecular Biology
Dr. Leonid Korochkin, M.D., Genetics, Molecular Biology, Neurobiology
Of course, the really amusing thing is that Korochkin isn't even a creationist. He is a critic of certain aspects of evolutionary theory but is by no means a creationist. Here is a review article of his from 2002 titled "Ontogeny, Evolution and Genes" where he states:
"Being an adherent of the macromutation evolution ..."
It's not like these blatant lies are confined to the modern list either. The historic list features:
James Dana
Dana was a geologist and editor of The American Journal of Science. Although skeptical of evolution when first published, later in 1874 he commented "while admitting the derivation of man from an inferior species, I believe there was a Divine creative act at the origin of man." So not a creationist.
John William Dawson
Again, another misrepresentation. Dawson was skeptical of evolution when it was published like many of the time but later softened and said that evolution was compatible with a divine plan. His biography notes:
"Dawson remained a special creationist until his death, but his opposition to evolution noticeably softened over the years as he came to acknowledge that evolution was not inconsistent with design. Never a biblical literalist, he readily granted that the days of creation represented long periods of time, that the Noachian deluge was universal only in the sense that it encompassed the narrator’s experience, and that the earth—but not man—was of great antiquity"
Finally, on the topic of lists, just two more things.
One name on the list jumped right out at me, Lionel Dahmer. Most people will at least recognise the surname, if not the first name. He is Jeffrey Dahmer's father. An analytical chemist and occasional creationism advocate, Lionel's extreme religious views were a significant factor in the hatred for homosexuals that drove his son to commit such horrible crimes. It's so nice that AIG would like to claim him on their list.
Finally, below is an extract from Project Steve, a list of scientists named Steve who support evolution. The current total is 1176 Steves which puts your list of idiots in the shade and then some. I've only included the first 10 here for space reasons.
Full List
Stephen T. Abedon
Associate Professor of Microbiology, Ohio State University
Ph.D., Microbiology, University of Arizona
Creator of The Bacteriophage Ecology Group, Home of Phage Ecology and Evolutionary Biology (www.phage.org)
Steve Abel******
Postdoctoral Associate, Department of Chemical Engineering, Laboratory for Computational Immunology, Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Ph.D., Chemical Engineering, Stanford University
Steven G. Ackleson****
Oceanographer, Office of Naval Research
Ph.D., Marine Studies, University of Delaware
Stephen A. Adam****
Associate Professor, Department of Cell and Molecular Biology, Feinberg School of Medicine, Northwestern University
Ph.D., Biochemistry, Molecular, and Cell Biology, Northwestern University
Steve Adams***** †
Vice President, Curl Inc.
Ph.D., Astrophysics, University College London
Steven Reid Adams******
Assistant Professor, Department of Biology, University of Central Arkansas
Ph.D., Zoology, Southern Illinois University
Stephen R. Addison*
Associate Professor of Physics, University of Central Arkansas
Ph.D., Physics, University of Mississippi
Stephen L. Adler
Albert Einstein Professor, School of Natural Sciences, Institute for Advanced Study
Ph.D., Physics, Princeton University
Member, National Academy of Sciences
Steve Adolph******
Professor of Biology, Harvey Mudd College
Ph.D., Zoology, University of Washington
Steven K. Akiyama*****
Scientist, Laboratory of Molecular Carcinogenesis, National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences, National Institutes of Health
Ph.D., Chemistry, Cornell University
Now on to your newer points.Having direct access to Materials Scientists is useful, for example, when Evolutionists draw analogies between modern complex polymers and living organisms.
Which complex polymers are you talking about and in what way can they be paralleled with living organisms?The Evolutionists have an a priori position that Spontaneous Evolution is a fact ... when it is actually an unfounded speculation.
No, evolution is a demonstrable fact of nature something which seems thus far to have eluded you either by accident or wilful ignorance. Well just ignorance, really.AIG is a faith-based ministry ... while Creation Scientists evaluate the physical evidence and follow where it leads, just like all scientists are supposed to do.
... and if something contradicts scripture ... then it contradicts scripture.
That's not answering my question. AIG is promoting this list as a group of scientists who support their religion. So do the scientists on that list agree with the statement of faith outlined on the website or not?0 -
So J C lied again?
One would almost suspect he had an addiction to being wrong.0 -
... I understand that he is an immunologist by training ... as the list states!!Dr. Geoff Barnard
Dr. Barnard is a researched in animal epdiemiology, specifically the transmission of encephalopathies.
... he is a research scientist and I understand that he is a Microbiologist by training ... as the list states!!Dr. Andrew Bosanquet
Dr. Bosanquet is not a microbiologist as implied on the list but rather an oncologist.
... there is a typo there allright ... you are correct that he is not a Geophysicist ... but is an environmental biologistDr. Dennis L. Englin
Yet more misrepresentation as Englin is an environmental biologist and not a geophysicist.
They are conventionally qualified scientists who have risked their careers to declare their support for CreationismI would go on but I think that that's sufficient to demonstrate my point. All you have illustrated with this list, JC, is a group of people suffering from cognitive dissonance, so you should fit right in. The fact that these people have locked their religious beliefs away from rational inquiry has no bearing on evolution.
... google isn't all seeing ... and all knowing ...Then there are the other problems with the list.
First off, are the people who don't feature anywhere on the web except for lists like the one on AIG. No research, no academic pages, nothing. Like this one, for example:
Dr. Kimberly Berrine
... so good, they named him twice!!!!Then there's the case of Leonid Korochkin who is listed twice on the list.
Prof. Leonid Korochkin, Molecular Biology
Dr. Leonid Korochkin, M.D., Genetics, Molecular Biology, Neurobiology
The great Dr Korochkin is now dead ... but was a leader in his field, in every sense of the word.
http://www.springerlink.com/content/y3228v00v6122383/
I can assure you that Dr Korochkin was indeed a Creationist ... for example he was amongst 400 scientists who attended the second Moscow International Symposium on Creation Science in May 1994.Of course, the really amusing thing is that Korochkin isn't even a creationist. He is a critic of certain aspects of evolutionary theory but is by no means a creationist. Here is a review article of his from 2002 titled "Ontogeny, Evolution and Genes" where he states:
"Being an adherent of the macromutation evolution ..."
He was indeed a Creation Scientist par excellence... and was Silliman Professor of Natural History in Yale College.... The historic list features:
James Dana
Dana was a geologist and editor of The American Journal of Science. Although skeptical of evolution when first published, later in 1874 he commented "while admitting the derivation of man from an inferior species, I believe there was a Divine creative act at the origin of man." So not a creationist.
He wrote a book entitled "SCIENCE AND THE BIBLE-
A REVIEW OF " THE SIX DAYS OF CREATION " OF PROF. TAYLER LEWIS."
Quote:-
" The heavens declare the glory of God, and the firmament showeth his handiwork." Thus spake the Psalmist in view of the revelation which God had made of himself in his works. With deeper emphasis may we now utter the same ascription of praise; for that revelation, as its records have been unfolded in these later days, has opened more and more glorious thoughts of the Almighty Architect, and appears as unfathomable in its truths, as God himself is infinite."
He was an Old Earth Creationist ... and thus a Creation Scientist ... your own quote even says "Dawson remained a special creationist until his death".John William Dawson
Again, another misrepresentation. Dawson was skeptical of evolution when it was published like many of the time but later softened and said that evolution was compatible with a divine plan. His biography notes:
"Dawson remained a special creationist until his death, but his opposition to evolution noticeably softened over the years as he came to acknowledge that evolution was not inconsistent with design. Never a biblical literalist, he readily granted that the days of creation represented long periods of time, that the Noachian deluge was universal only in the sense that it encompassed the narrator’s experience, and that the earth—but not man—was of great antiquity"
Lionel wasn't his son's keeper ... and it isn't the first time ... nor will it be the last, that a son is a grave disgrace to his father !!!One name on the list jumped right out at me, Lionel Dahmer. Most people will at least recognise the surname, if not the first name. He is Jeffrey Dahmer's father. An analytical chemist and occasional creationism advocate, Lionel's extreme religious views were a significant factor in the hatred for homosexuals that drove his son to commit such horrible crimes.
... if one of them was able to demonstrate how the CFSI in living organisms could arise spontaneously ... that would be achieving something for Evolution ... putting their names to a list achieves nothing ... as everybody already accepts that Evolutionists are to be found at all levels within Academia today ... just like Geocentrists were found at all levels within Medieval Academia ... as Galileo Galilei found out, to his cost!!!:)Finally, below is an extract from Project Steve, a list of scientists named Steve who support evolution. The current total is 1176 Steves which puts your list of idiots in the shade and then some. I've only included the first 10 here for space reasons.
... it has been used as a spurious argument for the spontaneous evolution of biological 'polymers' ... like proteins.Which complex polymers are you talking about and in what way can they be paralleled with living organisms?
... 'evolution' is a weasel word ... NS is a demonstrable fact of nature ... the issue is how the CFSI from which NS selects, arose in the first place ... and so far, 'wilful ignorace' best describes the Evolutionist 'answers' to this particular conundrum!!No, evolution is a demonstrable fact of nature something which seems thus far to have eluded you either by accident or wilful ignorance. Well just ignorance, really.
... some may support the Faith Position of AIG ... and many may not ... but as scientists ... Creation Scientists go where the evidence leads!!!That's not answering my question. AIG is promoting this list as a group of scientists who support their religion. So do the scientists on that list agree with the statement of faith outlined on the website or not?
... its a pity that some Evolutionists don't always do this as well!!!0 -
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You know you could shut most of us up by debunking that paper we keep asking you to debunk.
Why aren't you able to debunk it in detail, J C? Do you not understand it? Are you afraid you'll read something that challenges your world view? Is the holy spirit refusing to tell you what to do? Are you just lazy? Whatever your reasons, your silence only makes you look foolish and ignorant. Are you happy to look like an idiot?
Come on. Debunk that paper. You keep saying you can, but you never do. The only logical conclusion is that you can't do it. Why haven't you proved us wrong yet?0 -
I don't think so ... convince an Evolutionist against their will ... and they will be of the same opinon still!!!:)You know you could shut most of us up by debunking that paper we keep asking you to debunk.
There is nothing to debunk ... unless you guys can identify something???:)Why aren't you able to debunk it in detail, J C? Do you not understand it? Are you afraid you'll read something that challenges your world view? Is the holy spirit refusing to tell you what to do? Are you just lazy? Whatever your reasons, your silence only makes you look foolish and ignorant. Are you happy to look like an idiot?
Come on. Debunk that paper. You keep saying you can, but you never do. The only logical conclusion is that you can't do it. Why haven't you proved us wrong yet?0 -
Uh... How about any part of the paper we showed you? Remember that? when we showed you a paper that proves almost everything you say is untrue? There's plenty in there that requires debunking if you want anything you say to have any value.
But we're not picky. You can start by debunking any part you like.0 -
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Jealousy will get you nowhere, Robin ... and if you continue, being jealous of people who are more successful than you are (rather than emulating them) ... you will end up a sad, cynical (and poor) old man!!!:)Risked their career -- you mean like diploma-mill-doctor Ham who's turned himself into a millionaire by selling other peoples' crap to the terminally thick?0 -
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I'm not jealous of some talentless creationist fool who has prostituted the few dregs of ability that were bequeathed him by nature.jealous of people who are more successful than you are (rather than emulating them)
And, being a generally honest chap, neither have I any interest in emulating any creationist, even for the thin consolations of fame and money.0 -
Jealousy (and now, denial) will get you nowhere, Robin ...I'm not jealous of some talentless creationist fool who has prostituted the few dregs of ability that were bequeathed him by nature.
And, being a generally honest chap, neither have I any interest in emulating any creationist, even for the thin consolations of fame and money.
... and if you keep this up ... you will end up a sad, cynical (and poor) old man!!!:)
It could all be so different ... if you were to face reality ... and go get Saved ... and become a Creationist!!!:eek:0 -
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http://www.talkreason.org/articles/eandsdembski.pdf
discuss the paper then or will you flee from it yet again?
EDIT: fleeing it is I guess.If you can read this, you're too close!
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And yet you still haven't debunked a shred of that paper, J C. If you could, I think you would have done so by now. Please prove me wrong.0
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Dumbski's law of conservation of information is just a veiled return to the claim that imperfection cannot produce perfection, which is cartesian philosophy. In fact it's descartes' ontological argument.0
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Grown men believing in a fairy tale about a bored old man who created the world because he was bored and then made two humans and without telling them the whys and where fores leaves them frollic until a talking snake tells them to eat an apple. Then because he loves them abandons them so they can have incestuos sex and beget like rabbits, until hes upset with how they act so he destroys them with a flood saving only the best and brightest... I could go on but... you are the one who believes in fairy tales. We believe in science. Which is what is in that paper we have read your proof now read ours.... you're the ones on the run ... from reality.
Grown men believing that Human ancestors grew under cabbages ... as things that crawled ... before they supposedly walked!!!:)0 -
You have left out a number of important details ...Temptamperu wrote: »Grown men believing in a fairy tale about a bored old man who created the world because he was bored and then made two humans and without telling them the whys and where fores leaves them frollic until a talking snake tells them to eat an apple. Then because he loves them abandons them so they can have incestuos sex and beget like rabbits, until hes upset with how they act so he destroys them with a flood saving only the best and brightest... I could go on but... you are the one who believes in fairy tales. We believe in science. Which is what is in that paper we have read your proof now read ours.
1. It isn't a fairytale ... it actually happened ... and the CFSI in our cells proves beyond all doubt that we were Created.
2. He is God ... so He has the capacity to Create us.
3. God clearly told Adam & Eve that if they partook of Satan's occult knowledge system, that they would surely die ... and this is what happened!!!
4. God didn't abandon them ... and He destroyed the World because mankind had become irredeemably evil in their every thought and action.
... and I too believe in science and I am a conventionally qualified scientist ...
... and science also indicates that Spontaneous Evolution never happened ... and Creation did.:)0 -
... and it's actually true ... 'rubbish in rubbish' out is what happens in the absence of intelligently designed systems and processes!!Dumbski's law of conservation of information is just a veiled return to the claim that imperfection cannot produce perfection, which is cartesian philosophy. In fact it's descartes' ontological argument.
... but ID is about much more than the fact that imperfection cannot produce perfection ... and involves research into all of the information-rich fascets of living organisms.0 -
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I always wondered, was there a secret protocol written into the forum charter that JC is exempted from the soap-boxing rule because he's A&A's court jester? :P
Just, that at this point I think he needs to come up with some new material. Freshen up his routine. Could we possibly wean him off creationism and onto a fresh vein of comedy like pre-marital sex or feminism or something? I'm sure he's wonderfully well-read* on loads of hot-button issues!
* This is a lie.0 -
I wouldn't have gone there if I was you !!!In case they're murdered by evolutionists?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/australasia/scottish-backpacker-stabbed-to-death-after-creationism-row-765266.html
Oops, got that the wrong way around. Looks like it's creationists are the dangerous ones.
... anyway, I see that you are still having problems with facts ... this wasn't a case of murder ... but one of manslaughter as a result of a row between two people, about who knows what ultimately. The judge said he was giving the killer a relatively lenient sentence partly because of the accidental nature of the stabbing.
... however, the Columbine Massacre and the Finnish School Shootings were not accidents ... they were the deliberate murder of people ... and the murderers were deeply committed Evolutionists primarily motivated by a warped sense of the importance of Natural Selection!!!:(
http://www.straight-talk.net/evolution/columbine.htm
http://oddculture.com/weird-news-stories/deadly-finnish-school-shooting/0 -
primarily motivated
Oh, you perfect cad! *ruffles hair*
Also, excellent work with the 'sad' smiley there at the end. One might be led to believe you actually cared about the victims of high-school shootings beyond their (spurious) relevance to your anti-science programme.0 -
... and I'm not sure if you know there is a Law of Biogenesis ... and Spontaneous Generation (of which so-called 'abiogenesis' is a variant) has about as much scientific credibility as Perpetual Motion Machines ... i.e. no credibility!!!... He has no published research and makes claims that are either not relevant to a discussion on evolution or are demonstrably false. For example:
Quote:- 5. Life only comes from life and reproduces after its own kind. Life does
not come from nonliving material. Life does not spontaneously generate
itself.
I'm sure you know the difference between abiogenesis and evolution.
... and I'm not so sure that you know what random and deterministic processes are ...... Quote:-
6. Mutations, the supposed driving mechanisms of evolution, are random in nature and are neutral or harmful. They do not accumulate beneficially.
Mutations produce the wrong kind of change and will not provide for the
"upward" progressive increase in intelligence or complexity required by
evolutionists.
Once again, I'm sure you know the difference between random and deterministic processes.
... random processes destroy functional information ... and the processes that produce original CFSI are intelligently controlled ... and they are therefore not deterministic.
The first sentence in the paper's summary indicates that this benefit is conferred by a loss of CFSI (which is going in the opposite direction to what is required to move from 'Mice to Men')!!!Also, there have been numerous documented cases of highly beneficial mutations such as this one:
Dating the Origin of the CCR5-Δ32 AIDS-Resistance Allele by the Coalescence of Haplotypes
Quote:-
"The CCR5-Δ32 deletion obliterates the CCR5 chemokine and the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV)–1 coreceptor on lymphoid cells, leading to strong resistance against HIV-1 infection and AIDS. "
A debatable 'benefit' produced by ... you guessed it ... a loss of CFSI
... which again is going in the opposite direction to what is required to move from 'Mice to Men'!!!
Quote:-
"These results strongly indicate that our patient has a loss-of-function mutation in the myostatin gene, thus suggesting that the inactivation of myostatin has similar effects in humans, mice, and cattle. So far, we have not observed any health problems in the patient. Since myostatin is also expressed in the heart, we have closely monitored our patient's cardiac function but have not yet detected any signs of cardiomyopathy or a conduction disturbance."
This one doesn't even confer an advantage
Quote:-
"The bones of affected individuals, while appearing very dense radiographically, have normal external shape and outer dimensions and seem to have achieved a balance in bone turnover at a density that is significantly greater than necessary for normal skeletal stresses. Mutation analyses have revealed a single nucleotide mutation in the LRP5 gene resulting in an amino acid substitution (G171V) that was only present in HBM-affected individuals"
... and it is part of a group of disease-causing mutations
Quote:-
"Besides the HBM substitution, other mutations have been described for LRP5. In individuals with OPPG, nine disease-causing mutations in exons encoding the LRP5 extracellular domain have been identified, with each predicted to result in either frameshift or nonsense mutations."
Nonesense mutations causing disease ... are consistent with a perfect Creation going 'downhill' ... but they are inconsistent with a Spontaneous Evolution that supposedly went 'uphill' from Pondkind to Mankind!!!
Polystrate tree fossils do stick up through layers of rock that Evolutionists claim took millions of years to form through gradual depositon ... but the fact that the top of the trees are just as well preserved as the bottom proves that the rock was laid down in a matter of weeks /months ... and not millions of years.... Quote:-
9. Polystrate fossils, fossils which penetrate two or more layers of the
fossil record (most often trees), are common throughout the fossil record. In rare cases even large animal skeletons have been found in vertical position rather than in a horizontal position.
First of all, the idea of large animal skeletons being found as described above is flat wrong. The reference comes from a story in 1976 of a baleen whale found fossilised in an upright position. Except that the whale was acutally found at an angle 50 degrees to the normal and parallel to the stratum which formed the fossilised sea bed.
Secondly, the polystrate fossil as evidence for global flood idea was debunked in 1868 by John William Dawson using geological data collected from a fossilised forest in Nova Scotia.
Dawson, J.W., 1868. Acadian Geology. The Geological Structure, Organic Remains, and Mineral Resources of Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, and Prince Edward Island, 2nd edition. MacMillan and Co.: London, 694pp.
http://www.icr.org/article/classic-polystrate-fossil/
http://www.creationresearch.org/crsq/articles/43/43_4/polystrate_fossils.htm
... so what was it supposed to be then?...Quote :-
17. The concept of a "Big Bang" producing the universe is absolutely
illogical. Explosions do not produce ever increasing order and structure.
Explosions produce disorder and chaos. Explosions break things down or
destroy what was previously ordered.
Again, cosmogenesis is not relevant to a discussion on evolution but this is a shining example of how McMurtry is unable to grasp even the most basic scientific concepts by describing the Big Bang as an explosion.
I don't recall that post ... please provide a link.BTW, are you going to respond to my question some 80 odd posts back about your spurious religious claims or is that another topic we're going to have to add to your list of evasions.
I would say, that, when it comes to 'spurious religious claims' ... it's difficult to beat the spurious claims of Spontaneous Evolution!!!!:)0 -
Originally Posted by J C
... primarily motivated by a warped sense of the importance of Natural Selection...
Plautus
Oh, you perfect cad! *ruffles hair*
Quote:-
Harris wrote on his website, "YOU KNOW WHAT I LOVE??? Natural SELECTION. It's the best thing that ever happened to the Earth. Getting rid of all the stupid and weak organisms."
The autopsy report for Harris revealed that on the day of the attack, he wore a T-shirt emblazoned with the words "Natural Selection." Harris and Klebold, who planned their rampage for a year, paid homage to their hero, Adolph Hitler by carrying out their killing spree on April 20, Hitler's birthday.
Quote:- Finnish School Shooter Pekka-Eric Auvinen
“I am prepared to fight and die for my cause”, read a posting by Sturmgeist. “I, as a natural selector, will eliminate all who I see unfit, disgraces of human race and failures of natural selection.” (“Sturmgeist” means storm spirit in German."
... I'd say they were indeed primarily motivated by a warped view of Natural Selection!!!
It was a frown of absolute disapproval.Plautus
Also, excellent work with the 'sad' smiley there at the end. One might be led to believe you actually cared about the victims of high-school shootings beyond their (spurious) relevance to your anti-science programme.
Of course I care that many young people and their teachers, some of them fellow Christians, were mown down in cold blood by these evil people!!!
... do you not care???0 -
Quote:-
Harris wrote on his website, "YOU KNOW WHAT I LOVE??? Natural SELECTION. It's the best thing that ever happened to the Earth. Getting rid of all the stupid and weak organisms."
The autopsy report for Harris revealed that on the day of the attack, he wore a T-shirt emblazoned with the words "Natural Selection." Harris and Klebold, who planned their rampage for a year, paid homage to their hero, Adolph Hitler by carrying out their killing spree on April 20, Hitler's birthday.
Quote:- Finnish School Shooter Pekka-Eric Auvinen
“I am prepared to fight and die for my cause”, read a posting by Sturmgeist. “I, as a natural selector, will eliminate all who I see unfit, disgraces of human race and failures of natural selection.” (“Sturmgeist” means storm spirit in German."
... I'd say they were indeed primarily motivated by a warped view of Natural Selection!!!
It was a frown of absolute disapproval.
Of course I care that many young people and their teachers were mown down in cold blood by these evil people!!!
... do you not care???
Yeah JC. Nothing going on in Columbine except the application of 'Darwinist' natural selection. No social isolation and loneliness, no mental illness, no misanthropy: PRIMARILY natural selection. No, it wasn't conveniently and deterministically seized on by a group of disaffected young men with murderous intent as a justification. You really are some cad, as I said. These tragedies are merely feathers in your retarded cap of 'EVILution'.
And, so what if some high-school murderers believed they were agents of 'natural selection'. What conclusions are we to draw from that about the merits of theories of evolution developed since the time of Darwin? Few if any scientists derive moral prescriptions from simply describing how our species got here. Your shower are a different matter entirely.0 -
I never said that ... because it's untrue!!!Yeah JC. Nothing going on in Columbine except the application of 'Darwinist' natural selection. No social isolation and loneliness, no mental illness, no misanthropy:
You can squirm all you want ... but these are very concerning facts ... and I did say it was a warped view of NS.... PRIMARILY natural selection. No, it wasn't conveniently and deterministically seized on by a group of disaffected young men with murderous intent as a justification. You really are some cad, as I said. These tragedies are merely feathers in your retarded cap of 'EVILution'.
And, so what if some high-school murderers believed they were agents of 'natural selection'.
... and it was Robin who started all this ... with his half-baked and unfounded accusation of murder directed at Creationists!!
I would draw the conclusion that these guys were a sick infinitesimally small minority of Evolutionists ... who decide to kill people based on their Evolutionst beliefs.What conclusions are we to draw from that about the merits of theories of evolution developed since the time of Darwin? Few if any scientists derive moral prescriptions from simply describing how our species got here. Your shower are a different matter entirely.
Then again, I come onto this thread ... where advocacy of job discrimination and the non-provision of medical treatment to Creationists is routine ... I am called a liar, retarded and insane ... and somebody comes up with the idea that Creationists should be executed ... and nobody demurrs ... and now you describe myself and my fellow Creationists as a 'shower who are a different matter entirely' ... presumably deservng of 'special treatment' ... or some equally sinister 'solution'!!!Originally Posted by [-0-]
Creationist filth should be executed for crimes against intelligence.0 -
So how about debunking that paper, J C? If you don't do it soon, we might just have to conclude that you're full if sh*t.
Are you required to look like a fraud? Because I can't see any other reason you'd hold off debunking a paper that proves you wrong. Come on, already. Prove us wrong.0 -
You guys go from the sublime to the riduculous ... in 10 seconds flat!!!So how about debunking that paper, J C? If you don't do it soon, we might just have to conclude that you're full if sh*t.
Are you required to look like a fraud? Because I can't see any other reason you'd hold off debunking a paper that proves you wrong. Come on, already. Prove us wrong.0 -
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Creationists as a 'shower who are a different matter entirely' ... presumably deservng of 'special treatment' ... or some equally sinister 'solution'!!!
Ah Jaysus, are these hysterics par for the course for you? Your shower are different - you think there are moral implications to being created in the image of God. Scientists don't see what the normative implications are of ascending from single-cellular organisms. But yeah, don't let it stop you alluding to the Wannsee conference.
You know, I have to ask, what are we actually achieving here? This is pretty blatant tolerance of soap-boxing. I suppose it is funny, but it tends closer to tedium and futility for me. You'll never address any academic literature you're shown.0
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This discussion has been closed.
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