"The Origin of Specious Nonsense"

J C

koth wrote: »

you want Wibbs to prove what you've been arguing in favour of?

you don't get more spontaneous than a creator.

A Creator is intelligence in action ... a spontaneous system requires no intelligent input.

Delirium

you should buy a dictionary.

If God created man, he did so without external stimulus (because nothing else existed), therefore it was a spontaneous action.

Therefore there was a spontaneous production of CFSI based on what you've been saying in this thread.

But if you now admit you were wrong, I've no problem with that.

J C

koth wrote: »

you should buy a dictionary.

If God created man, he did so without external stimulus (because nothing else existed), therefore it was a spontaneous action.

Therefore there was a spontaneous production of CFSI based on what you've been saying in this thread.

But if you now admit you were wrong, I've no problem with that.

Creation ex nihilo was an omnipotent intelligent action ... and thus it wasn't a deterministic or spontaneous action.

Delirium

So you're now changing what you've been saying, and God didn't create mankind?

If God did, then it's spontaneous production of CFSI. If not, then God didn't create mankind.

Mr. Boo

If everything were designed to behave and evolve in a predestined way, then everything would be deterministic, surely? Even if the only one aware of the system's outcome was some amorphous, sexually-deviant, cruel-minded wondercnut...the system would still be deterministic?

Oh the action wasn't deterministic....

Wha?

The Mad Hatter

Sarky wrote: »

I would be overjoyed if this turned out to be the case. I often thought he was just a troll who missed his opportunity to cast off his cunning disguise and go "Problem?" at us.

But the longer he goes, the more I reckon he really just is a criminally misinformed evangelist with no grasp of the most basic scientific concepts. If he is a troll, the moment where it would have been lulz-worthy is long gone by about 3-4 years, making him a very crappy troll indeed.

J C has only one post not related to creationism, which if I recall correctly is on some software-related forum. To me this suggests that he's got one account for his day-to-day use, and one for his creationist trolling, and got them mixed up once.

J C

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

J C has only one post not related to creationism, which if I recall correctly is on some software-related forum. To me this suggests that he's got one account for his day-to-day use, and one for his creationist trolling, and got them mixed up once.

I'm not sure whether you are a Comspiracy Theorist ... or a Co-incidence Theorist ... but either way, you're wrong!!!!:)

J C

Mr. Boo wrote: »

If everything were designed to behave and evolve in a predestined way, then everything would be deterministic, surely? Even if the only one aware of the system's outcome was some amorphous, sexually-deviant, cruel-minded wondercnut...the system would still be deterministic?

Oh the action wasn't deterministic....

Wha?

God omnipotently Created Mankind ... the creative act wasn't predestined nor was it deterministic.

Many Living systems behave in a determinisic way, using the originally Created CFSI.

Humans have free-will ... so actions of the Human will aren't deterministic.

Sarky

Back to that paper, J C. Are you going to man up and either debunk it or admit you can't? Or will you keep running from it and make yourself look more cowardly and misinformed?

fitz0

Mr. Boo wrote: »

wondercnut

Thats a fantastic word. I'm stealing this.

Definitely the best thing I've gotten out of this thread.

Mr. Boo

J C wrote: »

God omnipotently Created Mankind ... the creative act wasn't predestined nor was it deterministic.

Many Living systems behave in a determinisic way, using the originally Created CFSI.

Humans have free-will ... so actions of the Human will aren't deterministic.

But this CFSI jip comes with implicit determinism. Even if there is free will, by your "intelligently-designed" hypothesis, this free will would have a predictive pattern. Even if it is chaotic, it will have evolved from some ground rules of allah's.

Lucy8080

hi j.c.

o.k lets start with a positive. we have both accepted timeless as a definition of "god" .

im also just testing if this post goes through ..."puter" playin up.

1. god /creator = timeless

Lucy8080

o.k. j.c.

lets see if we can establish a second point of agreement .

you say god created time and space ....." as we know them."

im gonna challenge this assumtion.

ill say the bible blames trippy fruit for time and space "as we know them."

time and space...birth and death.....theism and atheism....

all relative. seemingly separate . "as we know them".

intelligent design/evolution.

do you think you might be trippin' brotha?

J C

May the peace and love of Jesus Christ be with you all ... Happy Christmas!!!:)

sephir0th

same to you JC!

J C

... just read Prof Dawkins new hardback 'The Magic of Reality' ... which critically examines almost every myth except the myth of neo-Darwininsm!!!

He also presents the occasional gem of truth from the Word of God in the Bible - with plenty of real science mixed in as well.:)

J C

sephir0th wrote: »

same to you JC!

Thanks.

sephir0th wrote: »

Mithras worship was an after the fact countetfeit imitation of Christianity (based around a Persian Myth) ... and practiced as an occult 'mystery religion' within the Roman Empire from the 1st to 4th centuries AD!!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithraic_mysteries

... many will come in my name saying "I am the Christ" ... and it is still going on!!!

J C

On page 24 of 'The Magic of Reality' Prof Dawkins comes tantalisingly close to recognising the impossibility of spontaneous evolution and the necessity of ID to explain the origins of life ...
"Of course, no one really believes that it would be possible to turn a frog into a prince (or was it a prince into a frog? I can never remember) or a pumpkin into a coach, but have you ever stopped to consider why such things would be impossible?"
My Answer ... spontaneous evolution is impossible because CFSI can only be produced by Intelligent design.

Prof Dawkins' answer in blue [and my comments are in black in brackets]:
"Frogs and coaches are complicated things, [they are actually Complicated Functional and Specified things]
with lots of parts that need to be put together in a special way [the word he is searcing for is 'specified']
in a special pattern that can't just happen by accident (or by the wave of a wand). That's what 'complicated' means [it's actually what 'complex, functional and specified' means]
It is very difficult to make a complicated thing like a frog or a coach [its very easy to make a complicated thing, like a snowflake of a pile of rubble, - they form spontaneously using deterministic/chaotic processes respectively ... the difficulty arises when you try to make a complicated functional specified thing, like a frog or a coach].
To make a coach you need to bring all the parts together in just the right way. You need the skills of a carpenter and other craftsmen [yes, you need intelligence and Intelligent Design to do it!!!]
Coaches don't just happen by accident or by clicking your fingers and saying 'Abrracadabra'. [... or by a series of selected random accidents either]
A coach has structure, complexity, working parts: wheels and axles, windows and doors, springs and padded seats.[structure, complexity and working parts, eh? AKA 'specified, complex, functional'].
It would be relatively easy to turn something complicated like a coach into something simple - like ash for instance.: the fairy godmother's wand would just need a built-in blowtorch. It is easy to turn almost anything into ash. [yes. it follows the Laws of Thermodynamics ... and fire and mutagenesis are examples of processes that spontaneously degrade CFSI.
But no one could take a pile of ash - or a pumpkin - and turn it into a coach ...[only an almighty and omnipotent God is capable of such a feat!!!]
... because a coach is too complicated; and not just complicated, but complicated in a useful direction; in this case useful for people to travel in. [you're almost there, Prof Dawkins ... go on and say it ... its complex functional specified and designed ... and thus must be Intelligently Designed.]

I predict that when the 'penny finally drops' with Prof Dawkins ... and he realises what an unfounded myth that neo-Darwinina Evolution really is ... he will write a book denouncing it called, 'Why I gave up trying to climb Mount Impossible'!!!:eek::D:)

dlofnep

Merry Christmas J C!

J C

dlofnep wrote: »

Merry Christmas J C!

I'll drink to that!!!:)

Thanks ... and many happy returns to you and your family.:)

Sarky

J C, stop being wrong for ONE day in your life and go away and enjoy Christmas whatever the hell way it is you enjoy it.

That which can be created without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

Let's all have a day off

robindch

^^^ Sarky, be nice. It's christmas

J C

Sacramento wrote: »

That which can be created without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

One of Christopher Hitchins most witty quotes!!!!
... I sometimes wonder if he appreciated the irony of it as an observation about Spontaneous Evolution???

... knowing his sharp intellect and fearlessness ... he may well have ... but said it anyway!!!:)

... I am very sorry for his untimely passing.

Lucy8080

oh well. somehow this ressurected.

there is another side to that hitchens quote j.c.

whatever god creates without evidence he can dismiss without evidence.

or would u disagree?

i sometimes think hitchens was more christian in his ways than many i know.

amacachi

When I finally replace this piece of **** laptop I'm going to use it one last time to open this forum and when I see that there's been yet another post in this thread I'll do what I've been fighting against doing for the last few months and put my ****ing fist through the ****ing screen.

J C

J C wrote: »

Sacramento wrote: »

That which can be created without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

One of Christopher Hitchins most witty quotes!!!!
... I sometimes wonder if he appreciated the irony of it as an observation about Spontaneous Evolution???

... knowing his sharp intellect and fearlessness ... he may have ... but said it anyway!!!:)

... I am very sorry for his untimely passing.

Until you address Sarky's post on page 453, you will never be seen as anything but a bad joke.

Attempting to poke holes in things you think are particularly unbelievable is probably the most ironic hobby you could have picked up.

J C

amacachi wrote: »

When I finally replace this piece of **** laptop I'm going to use it one last time to open this forum and when I see that there's been yet another post in this thread I'll do what I've been fighting against doing for the last few months and put my ****ing fist through the ****ing screen.

amacachi ... has anybody told you that you might have anger-management issues???

J C

Lucy8080 wrote: »

oh well. somehow this ressurected.

there is another side to that hitchens quote j.c.

whatever god creates without evidence he can dismiss without evidence.

or would u disagree?

I would agree, if it were borne out by the facts ... but it isn't ... the fact that all life was Created by an inordinate intelligence of God-like proportions is an objective fact ... logically derived from the vast quantity and the exceedingly high quality of the CFSI present in living things.

So, because God has provided ample evidence of His Creation, we therefore cannot dismiss God's Creative act as being without evidential proof!!!

Lucy8080 wrote: »

i sometimes think hitchens was more christian in his ways than many i know.

You could have a point there!!!

amacachi

J C wrote: »

amacachi ... has anybody told you that you might have anger-management issues???

The fact that I've lasted over a year without doing it suggests to me that the only issue I have with anger management may be that I'm just too good at it.