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"The Origin of Specious Nonsense"

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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Zillah wrote: »
    22K+ thousand views. Awesome.



    DEAR CREATIONISTS OF THE WORLD.
    WE HAVE ALREADY WON. YOUR CHILDREN'S MINDS BELONG TO US.
    GOD IS DEAD.

    THAT IS ALL.
    That's what you think!!!

    You control the school curricula and you control the media and large sections of the churches ... but you don't control God ... or John J May !!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    J C wrote: »
    That's what you think!!!

    You control the school curricula and you control the media and large sections of the churches ... but you don't control God ... or John J May !!!

    JC help me understand this fantasy world you live in....

    Why exactly do you think scientists believe evolution by natural selection and not say Lamarkian evolution or a space alien form of creation?
    And what benefit are they receiving by promoting it?


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    J C wrote: »
    That's what you think!!!

    You control the school curricula and you control the media and large sections of the churches!!

    Wow Zillah I never knew you were so powerful, I am now your best friend forever.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    King Mob wrote: »
    JC help me understand this fantasy world you live in....

    Why exactly do you think scientists believe evolution by natural selection and not say Lamarkian evolution or a space alien form of creation?
    And what benefit are they receiving by promoting it?

    Oh God, here's come the impossibility from mud to man pondslime crap again.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    Malty_T wrote: »
    Wow Zillah I never knew you were so powerful

    That aint nothin'! Try striking me down and see what happens.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    King Mob wrote: »
    JC help me understand this fantasy world you live in....

    Why exactly do you think scientists believe evolution by natural selection and not say Lamarkian evolution or a space alien form of creation?
    And what benefit are they receiving by promoting it?
    neo-Darwinism is the official faith ... and if you are a Lamarkian, or Alien Intelligent Designer you will be 'sidelined' just as quickly as if you were a Creationist ... or a protestant in the Vatican!!:)

    According to Prof Dawkins the 'benefit' of neo-Darwinism is that it makes him feel like an intellectually fulfilled Atheist!!!

    ... and here is John J May's account of his visit to The Darwin Exhibition in the Museum of Natural History in London



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    J C wrote: »
    neo-Darwinism is the official faith ... and if you are a Lamarkian, or Alien IDer you will be 'sidelined' just as quickly as if you are a creationist.

    According to Prof Dawkins the 'benefit' of neo-Darwinism is that it makes him feel like an intellectually fulfilled Atheist!!!

    Yea you seem to have misunderstood what I'm asking. Shock.

    Again, why do you think scientists believe in evolution by natural selection and not some other theory?

    It clearly has nothing to do with atheism as most scientists who actually understand and support evolution also believe in God.

    So what, in your magical fantasy world, leads science to believe evolution?


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    King Mob wrote: »
    Yea you seem to have misunderstood what I'm asking. Shock.

    Again, why do you think scientists believe in evolution by natural selection and not some other theory?

    It clearly has nothing to do with atheism as most scientists who actually understand and support evolution also believe in God.

    So what, in your magical fantasy world, leads science to believe evolution?
    The 'Hard Core' Darwinists are all Atheists/Agnostics ... and the Theists are simply going along 'for the ride' ... because they think that it has been scientifically verified ... when it never has been!!!

    ... and if you doubt me just remember that Darwinism was thought up so as to deny God ... and to make Atheists feel intellectually fulfilled ... and it is no accident that there are no Atheists who are Creationists!!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,734 ✭✭✭Newaglish


    This thread is like a fiery car crash, interesting at first but becoming increasingly more complex and gruesome over time. I can now only look at it in short doses before I must look away but I keep coming back to look at the smouldering remains.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    J C wrote: »
    ... and if you doubt me just remember that Darwinism was thought up so as to deny God ... and to make Atheists feel intellectually fulfilled ... and it is no accident that there are no Atheists who are Creationists!!!

    Eh, Darwin himself was a christian and intended to be a clergymen, he renounced his faith because of his findings regarding evolution.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    J C wrote: »
    The 'Hard Core' Darwinists are all Atheists/Agnostics ... and the Theists are simply going along 'for the ride' ... because they think that it has been scientifically verified ... when it never has been!!!

    ... and if you doubt me just remember that Darwinism was thought up so as to deny God ... and to make Atheists feel intellectually fulfilled ...
    That's not why it was made up and it has been verified, but then it's clear you're not living on the same planet as us, so talking to you about reality isn't going to get any where.
    I'm just curious about the exact form of your delusion.

    But again you've totally misunderstood my question.
    Lamarkian evolution could have equally been used to promote atheism, or what ever nonsense you believe. It is also not supported by observable evidence, like how in your head evolution isn't.
    So why Darwinian evolution and not Lamarkian? Or any other forms or theories?
    J C wrote: »
    and it is no accident that there are no Atheists who are Creationists!!!
    Well you see, in reality there are. They're called Raelians. Look them up.
    I can't wait till you start harping on about how crazy they are.
    You'll look quite the hypocrite.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    J C wrote: »
    The 'Hard Core' Darwinists are all Atheists/Agnostics ... and the Theists are simply going along 'for the ride' ... because they think that it has been scientifically verified ... when it never has been!!!

    ... and if you doubt me just remember that Darwinism was thought up so as to deny God ... and to make Atheists feel intellectually fulfilled ... and it is no accident that there are no Atheists who are Creationists!!!

    So what exactly makes you doubt the evidence for evolution? Let's keep this organised. Tell me what's wrong with all of the following:

    1 - Genetics showing degrees of relation and inheritance between all existing and many previous forms of life.
    2 - Fossils clearly showing transitional features between ancient and modern forms.
    3 - Modern relics, such as dolphins with redundant leg bones.
    4 - Evolution happening before our very eyes, including e.coli evolving to process citrate, the inability to do which is a defining attribute of their species, and elephant tusks shrinking because of hunting, and lizards moving from eggs to live births.

    There's plenty more but let's have you debunk those bits first.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Newaglish wrote: »
    This thread is like a fiery car crash, interesting at first but becoming increasingly more complex and gruesome over time. I can now only look at it in short doses before I must look away but I keep coming back to look at the smouldering remains.
    The truth will set you free ... even if it may be painful at first.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Eh, Darwin himself was a christian and intended to be a clergymen, he renounced his faith because of his findings regarding evolution.
    Darwin renounced Chrisitianity because of the death of his young daughter.
    Evolution then became his all-consuming passion.


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    Hey J C, ever posted in the CT forum? I think a few of teh regulars there also believe in teh big science conspiracy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    So I take it I'm not going to get an answer?

    Why is that JC?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,734 ✭✭✭Newaglish


    King Mob wrote: »
    So I take it I'm not going to get an answer?

    Why is that JC?

    He has the post written out, he's just bolding a few words and adding in an ellipsis into the middle of every sentence.

    I like to think that each "..." is where a fact has been erased.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    King Mob wrote: »
    Lamarkian evolution could have equally been used to promote atheism, or what ever nonsense you believe. It is also not supported by observable evidence, like how in your head evolution isn't.
    So why Darwinian evolution and not Lamarkian? Or any other forms or theories?
    If Lamarckism was chosen by Darwin it would probably now be called Darwinism ... and it would be equally invaild!!!.



    King Mob wrote: »
    Well you see, in reality there are. They're called Raelians. Look them up.
    I can't wait till you start harping on about how crazy they are.
    You'll look quite the hypocrite.
    The Raelians believe that Aliens Created earth life ... and some Darwinians also share a belief that this could be possible.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 227 ✭✭Dougla2


    J C wrote: »
    If Lamarckism was chosen by Darwin it would probably now be called Darwinism ... and it would be equally invaild!!!.




    The Raelians believe that Aliens Created earth life ... and some Darwinians also share a belief that this could be possible.



    yes some atheist believe in raelianism, but not all just because dawkins said its a possibility doesn't mean he believes it , Alien lifeforms are a statistical probability .


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Zillah wrote: »
    So what exactly makes you doubt the evidence for evolution? Let's keep this organised. Tell me what's wrong with all of the following:

    1 - Genetics showing degrees of relation and inheritance between all existing and many previous forms of life.
    Evidence of a Common designer ... and not a common ancestor.

    2 - Fossils clearly showing transitional features between ancient and modern forms.
    I am unaware of such transitions - and Eminent Evolutionists admit that the fossil record provides no evidence for gradual Evolution
    Quote:-
    "The evidence against the standard view is contained in a lack of evidence. If life had evolved into its wondrous profusion of creatures little by little, Dr. Eldredge argues, then one would expect to find fossils of transitional creatures which were a bit like what went before them and a bit like what came after. But no one has yet found any evidence of such transitional creatures. This oddity has been attributed to gaps in the fossil record which gradualists expected to fill when rock strata of the proper age had been found. In the last decade, however, geologists have found rock layers of all divisions of the last 500 million years and no transitional forms were contained in them. If it is not the fossil record which is incomplete then it must be the theory. The alternative theory is called (regrettably) "punctuated equilibrium" or "punctuationalism." According to this, the diversity of life has come about as a result of sporadic adaptations by small, well-defined groups confronted by a new environment, interspersed with long periods of little or no change."
    The Guardian Weekly, 26 Nov 1978, vol 119, no 22, p. 1


    3 - Modern relics, such as dolphins with redundant leg bones.
    They were never leg bones.

    4 - Evolution happening before our very eyes, including e.coli evolving to process citrate, the inability to do which is a defining attribute of their species, and elephant tusks shrinking because of hunting, and lizards moving from eggs to live births.
    All examples of genetic information loss or pre-existing genetic diversity.

    There's plenty more but let's have you debunk those bits first.
    Keep them coming.
    .


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Dougla2 wrote: »
    yes some atheist believe in raelianism, but not all just because dawkins said its a possibility doesn't mean he believes it , Alien lifeforms are a statistical probability .
    'Aliens' exist ... but they didn't create life on earth !!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Galvasean wrote: »
    Hey J C, ever posted in the CT forum? I think a few of teh regulars there also believe in teh big science conspiracy.
    There is no conspiracy among Evolutionist Science ... just open public hostility to Creationism and ID.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 227 ✭✭Dougla2


    J C wrote: »
    'Aliens' exist ... but they didn't create life on earth !!!

    how do you know that?, why is it that god created the earth and aliens didn't , maybe "nobody" did it but something? , what's your evidence that a "god " did it the bible does not count as evidence.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    King Mob wrote: »
    So I take it I'm not going to get an answer?

    Why is that JC?
    What was your question?


  • Registered Users Posts: 644 ✭✭✭FionnMatthew


    J C wrote: »
    I am genuinely shocked that you Robin, would refer to two women as 'four tits'.

    I though you were above making such an overtly mysogenistic remark ... but I was obviously wrong.:(

    How would you like it if somebody referred to you as a penis ... or a Dick?
    The only person guilty of misogyny is John J. May, for being so cynical and downright crude as to try to raise the profile of his stupid circus act by paying women to wear very little at it.

    In effect, his poster said, "come along, there'll be a man in a monkey suit and two pairs of tits there."

    I don't see anything misogynistic about pointing it out ironically by acknowledging that these women effectively were, for the purposes of the show, "pairs of tits."


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,038 ✭✭✭sponsoredwalk


    J C wrote: »
    The truth will set you free ... even if it may be painful at first.

    This is the sweetest irony I could find after painfully reading the crazy that
    has accumulated over the 2 days I've been gone drinkin' but even a
    hangover isn't enough to get me to ignore JC's nonsense ;)
    J C wrote: »
    ... are you also having problems with the time that you post Robin ... just like Sponsoredwalk ... why do Evolutionists have such problems with time?

    Eh, where did I have a problem with the time of your post JC? I think
    you're confusing me with the Mad Hatter in your quest to try to insult
    atheists. Is an apology from you worth anything from you? I doubt it
    seeing as you're so fond of posting one thing only to post later on saying
    the exact opposite, I'll show you why this is true [evidence?] below.
    J C wrote: »
    I used to think that also ... when I was an Evolutionist.

    Okay, a while ago you said the exact same thing:
    J C wrote: »
    I used to have a closed mind ... when I was an evolutionist ... and it took me 10 years to prize it open!!!

    and in response to this post I gave you reasons why you were never an
    evolutionist. Here is that post & I also mentioned some of the proofs of
    evolution in it, you never replied & instead choose to continue repeating
    something that was shown to be false.
    J C wrote: »
    The truth will set you free ... even if it may be painful at first.

    :rolleyes:
    J C wrote: »
    ... one problem with Prof Dawkin's idea is that ... if it has the appearance of quacking like a duck and has the appearance of swimming like a duck and has the appearance of looking like a duck ... then it can be safely concluded that it is a duck!!!!



    ... so Prof Dawkin's conclusion that living processes give the appearance of being designed for a purpose ... means that it can be safely concluded that they were so designed!!!

    This is not true, a platypus looks similar to a duck and even got it's name
    from this similarity yet we can't concluse a platypus is a duck based on
    your shoddy logic, I'm sorry but this just wont do. Can you explain the
    evolutionary history of the platypus that has been found through molecular
    clocks and genetic sequencing by better logic than that you've given above?
    Can you explain why this evolutionary lineage is incorrect if it's been found
    through collecting evidence? If you've got a reason why this evidence is
    wrong submit it to the journal nature & collect prize after prize.
    J C wrote: »
    ... Prof Dawkins has indeed said that living organisms give the appearance of having been designed for a purpose ... and he then promptly denies this by claiming that blind evolutionary processes did it ...
    ... but materialistic processes are incapable of producing CSI ... and we have the maths to prove it!!!

    How can he deny something which he just said was true? You are
    purposely misunderstanding the quote to go off bashing these atheists you
    hate so much. He said that one could get the idea things were
    designed for a purpose but that animals, fulfilling their biological urges to
    survive & reproduce
    , will of course have the appearance of being
    designed. They give off this impression because they are suited to their
    environment in a way that lets them survive & reproduce. If they weren't
    "designed" to survive in their environment then they would die off as a
    species. Think of it this way, if humans couldn't survive under the cold
    conditions up at the north pole then they are not going to live there.
    They may have tried but would have died off. This is an example of
    evolution designing a species, unless some humans developed a gene
    that produced more adipose tissue (fat) or some other protection the
    humans there will not survive. If a human develops a genetic benefit then
    his/her children will carry this resistance & then the species can start
    to multiply & survive up there. If you look at humans their are plenty of
    examples of this, think about why people's skin went from black to white,
    melanin was not needed as much as people migrated north.
    Oh, and lets see the mathematics you've read on this topic please :cool:

    J C wrote: »
    ... just like the original Charles Darwin also wasn't up to much either ... he claimed to know all there was to know about heredity and the origins of species ... and ended up marrying his own first cousin ... while claiming that this would somehow 'improve' their childrens' genetics??!!!

    You liar! Quote Darwin on this! I dare you! mad.gif Making things up to lie about
    the atheist evolutionists you hate so much. Darwin knew very little about
    how heredity occurred, he never knew the mechanism by which this was
    accomplished. The strange thing is that Gregor Mendel sent Darwin his
    paper on heredity but it seems Darwin never read it. The thing about
    evolution is that because heredity wasn't known in Darwin's day it was a
    more contentious topic of discussion than it is now. Still, there was plenty
    of evidence given by Darwin to show evolution by natural selection to be
    an adequate means of explaining the diversity of life on earth.

    I doubt you'll read anything that goes against the lies you're making up
    but I'd advise you to watch a show on the internet called "What Darwin
    Never Knew" to get some visual explanations of these things.
    J C wrote: »
    The truth will set you free ... even if it may be painful at first.

    :pac:
    J C wrote: »
    I have found that the 'best' Evolutionist writers have a good lierary style ... and write a good story ...

    ... as Creationism is now 'coming of age' ... it was almost inevitable that some good literature (as well as science) would be written about it ... and John May seems to be the man!!!!
    J C wrote: »
    ... I have read the 'free bit' of his book on his website ... and it has considerable literary merit.smile.gif

    This man may have literary talent that can convince someone like you that
    evolution is wrong. But normal, unbiased people, wont fall for shoddy
    logic. I mean a poster on here quoted the 7 reasons of his why evolution
    is wrong and (s)he responded showing how ignorant the man is.
    Furthermore he seems to think babies don't wrinkle coming out of the
    womb based off his "scientific" research on the subjct. You know what
    that research is? His own meagre experience... I feel sorry for you seeing
    as you can be so easily led by others. Evidence is the deciding factor
    for most people, with you it's John May's odd grammar, I mean the man
    usually uses two words that describe the very same thing when
    describing something, he is just a master of tautology & his choice of
    using two words describing the same thing hardly points to mastery of
    the english language, rather a need to over-emphasize.
    J C wrote: »
    When it comes to Evolution and Evolutionism, I find that many words don't mean what anybody would think they do!!!!eek.gif

    ... as well as subverting science ... Evolutionism ... is also perverting the English language ... with 'weasel' words and arguments that continuously 'morph' ... depending on circumstances ... like some kind of linguistic 'Chameleon'!!!eek.gif

    Yes, and the word "Work" means something different when used in a physics
    context compared to everyday usage. Basically you're like a student who
    is complaining that a subject like biology needs to be very specific in it's
    choice of words. If these aren't specific then people like you will use the
    openness of the word chosen to try to attack the subject. Well, that is
    really a side-consequence, it's mainly because you want to teach a bloody
    concept. Your weaselly & childish arguments here have pretty much shown
    us you were never "speaking as a scientist". This is something a child
    learns, were you ever in a science class, ever????????????????????????????

    After all the ridiculous points you'd made earlier you admit you understand
    what evolution is really saying & that there is a difference between
    abiogenesis & evolution.
    J C wrote: »
    Evolution may explain the 'survival of the fittest' (via NS/SS of existing genetic information) ... but it doesn't explain the 'arrival of the fittest' i.e. the origin of the specified functional complex information present in living systems.
    But then you come out with some ridiculous statements, like the
    "speaking as an evolutionist" thing again.

    Why are you playing these games even though you apparently understand
    that evolution does in fact explain the diversity of life? I mean, the above
    quote you wrote shows that you do not agree with John May's thesis
    .
    You either really don't understand the whole idea of evolution, let alone
    John May's argument, or are just trolling or satisfying some mental issue.
    There is no other explanation, you've tripped yourself up with your own
    words on Friday yet all weekend have been returning to spam the
    thread talking about how evolution is incorrect. What's really going on JC?
    J C wrote: »
    The truth will set you free ... even if it may be painful at first.

    :confused:


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    J C wrote: »
    .

    Ahaha 1978. Nice.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    J C wrote: »
    What was your question?
    I've repeated it three times now, with increasing clarity.
    So you are either not reading people's posts, favouring instead to parrot off arguments you're copy pastaing from some inane website. Or you're just too dense to actually understand a very simple question.

    Either way it shows people the level of debate you anti science cranks engage in.

    So here it is again: Why did science choose Darwinian Evolution to promote rather than any other non-theistic theories?


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    King Mob wrote: »
    So here it is again: Why did science choose Darwinian Evolution to promote rather than any other non-theistic theories?

    Cause it makes the most sense? Oh wait.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Galvasean wrote: »
    Cause it makes the most sense? Oh wait.
    You see Galvasean, you're talking about reality there. I'm asking about JC's fantasy world which he lives in


This discussion has been closed.
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