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"The Origin of Specious Nonsense"
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Message from God ... just in:-
RECALL NOTICE:
The Maker of all Human Beings (GOD) is recalling all units manufactured, regardless of make or year, due to a serious defect in the primary and central component of the heart.
This is due to a self-inflicted malfunction in the original prototype units code named Adam and Eve, resulting in the reproduction of the same defect in all subsequent units.
This defect has been identified as "Subsequential Internal Non-morality," more commonly known as S.I.N., as it is primarily expressed.
Some of the SIN symptoms include:
1. Loss of dierection
2. Foul vocanal emissions
3. Amnesia of origin
4. Lack of peace and joy
5. Selfish or violent behavior
6. Depression or confusion
7. Fearfulness
8. Idolatry
9. Rebellion
The Manufacturer, who is neither liable nor at fault for this defect, is providing factory-authorized repair and service free of charge to correct this defect.
The Repair Technician, JESUS, has most generously offered to bear the entire burden of the staggering cost of these repairs. There is no additional fee required.
The number to call for repair in all areas is: P-R-A-Y-E-R.
Once connected, please upload your burden of SIN through the REPENTANCE procedure.
Next, download ATONEMENT from Jesus, into the heart component.
No matter how big or small the SIN defect is, Jesus will replace it with:
1. Love - Unless you're a member of another religion. Or gay. Or one of the many other things he doesn't like.
2. Joy - Funny, I can experience joy without religion. Try it
3. Peace - Sells, but who's buying
4. Patience - Again, not exclusive to christians.
5. Kindness - See above
6. Goodness - Gracious me
7. Faithfulness - Again, see above
8. Gentleness - Another one bites the dust
9. Self control - Starting to see a pattern here.
Please see the operating manual, the B.I.B.L.E. (BEST Instructions Before Leaving Earth) for further details on the use of these fixes. And also some useful tips on genocide.
WARNING: Continuing to operate the human being unit without correction voids any manufacturer warranties, exposing the unit to dangers and problems too numerous to list, and will result in the human unit being permanently impounded at death. For free emergency service, call on Jesus.
- GOD
P.S. You may contact the Father any time by 'Knee mail'!
Because HE Lives ... and Loves You!!!
Pickleweasel.0 -
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Message from God ... just in:-
RECALL NOTICE:
<waffle>
The Manufacturer, who is neither liable nor at fault for this defect, is providing factory-authorized repair and service free of charge to correct this defect.
Anyone else find it amusing that the omnipotent creator needs a disclaimer clause?
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... the main issue is that all of these different eyes ... have different functional genetic information that are tiny 'islands' of functionality in an 'ocean' of non-functional genetic combinatorial 'space' ... so how does NS 'cross' this non-functional space ... where every combination is just as useless as every other one?
OK, I'm going to say this for the last time. Following this I will ignore any of these type of comments you make, just so we're clear. First, natural selection is a deterministic process not a random one. Secondly, until such time as you are willing to both quantify and support your CSFI/CFSI/FSIC/CIFS etc. then there's no point commenting on it.The Second Law ... is the reason why spontaneous systems don't decrease in entropy except with an intelligent input.
Where does the 2nd Law mention spontaneous. The 2nd law applies to closed systems, which the earth isn't.
And seeing as you mention it, you're confusing order with entropy. We have already observed instances where an increase in order is associated with an increase in entropy.
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/285/5426/394.short
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/279/5358/1849.short
http://ajp.aapt.org/resource/1/ajpias/v68/i12/p1090_s1?isAuthorized=no
So maybe you'd like to try that one again?Living processes ... including the sight cascade are observed to be highly complex, tightly specified functional systems ... just like their Human-manufactured analogues.
Manufacturing processes don't use random changes to 'improve' the design or functionality of their products ... so why do you think that living processes are an exception to this fact?
Stop talking ****e, JC.
Natural selection has formed the basis of many manufacturing processes. You might want to read these before making any more stupid comments:
Genetic algorithm
List of genetic algorithm applications
Computer-automated design
Evolutionary computing
and here is Richard Dawkins explaining how it works:Complex Functional Specified Information is self-explanitory ... but if you prefer you may call it Genetic Information.
So you're saying that DNA is your idea of the CFSI implanted by your "intelligent designer" aka the Christian God? Really?Are you for real???
The supposed first creatures to develop were all water dwellers ... and therefore any mucus produced would simply be dissolved in the water.
Did you leave your brain at the door before posting that? Do you have any idea how stupid it looks? I guess not.
Mucus does not dissolve in water. In fact in many cases, the mucus secreted by aquatic creatures reacts to water, expanding in volume and becoming stickier. Lots of aquatic creatures secrete external mucus, particularly bony fish and hagfish. Do some reading and stop making such idiotic comments.
Mucus
HagfishThe Human eyelid performs the same function.
And? So? Therefore?
What does what you have just said have anything to do with my last post?The vary rare 'beneficial' mutations and the common deleterious ones all result in degraded genetic information.
Stop repeating the same lies over and over. If you had read "The Evolution of Biological Complexity" which I posted you would see that not to be the case.
Even by the criteria of information theory these mutations count as an increase in genetic information.... all I see there is an idiot ... talking to himself!!!:)
Excuse me?
Oh, and before I forgetAtheistic Humanism is also a faith-based belief (in the non-existence of God).
All Faiths are seeking after truth ... and I believe that Christianity has the truth.
No, JC, atheism is not a faith, neither is atheistic humanism. Most people here don't believe in a god. They do not positively believe that there are no gods. You should try and understand the difference between those two positions.
You can believe in the truth of Christianity all you want. Unfortunately you don't have any evidence, do you? After all, Paul said it best in 1 Corinthians 15:
"If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised."
Christianity stands or falls with the resurrection. Without evidence for that you're stuffed!Doc_Savage wrote: »anyone else loving the way JC has changed "evidence" to "unambiguous evidence" since oldrnwisr has started putting up those belters of posts?
Thanks Doc. The thing is though I think when JC says unambiguous evidence he means evidence he can't explain away using creationism but since he's a master of cognitive dissonance management I can't see that happening.0 -
... OK ... we're not Elephants ... we're not Crocodiles ... and we're not Apes.
We're Specially Created Humans ... and that is why we drive cars ... debate Evolution on the Boards.ie ... and none of the other creatures will ever do so.
We are apes JC. By every measurable definition of the term ape, we are apes and sticking your fingers in your ears isn't going to change that. But me repeatedly saying it isn't going to have much effect probably so I'd better show you instead.
The Concordant Evidence for Human Evolution
1. Chromosomal fusion as evidence of common ancestry
I'm going to start with this because it's something that I've covered previously. I'm not going to go through the details of it again. If you wish to read it you can do so here or here. Instead I will post the research supporting it which I neglected to do last time.
Origin of human chromosome 2: an ancestral telomere-telomere fusion
Evidence for an ancestral alphoid domain on the long arm of human chromosome 2
The origin of human chromosome 2 analyzed by comparative chromosome mapping with a DNA microlibrary
Ask A Geneticist - Why the fusion of chromosome 2 is not explained by common design
2. Endogenuous Retroviruses
For this point and the next I'm going to discuss some points that I first raised in the other evolution thread.
The first of these is endogenuous retroviruses (ERV). ERVs are single-stranded RNA viruses that inject a portion of their genome into the host DNA through a process of reverse transcription. Unlike HIV, for example, these viruses are capable of infecting germline cells and so get passed on to the next generation. By examining these sequences in humans and comparing them with sequences found in other apes we can see a clear pattern of common descent.
The reason that ERVs demonstrate evidence for common descent is simple. Since the virus is endogenuous, it is retained in all descendant branches. So all offspring of an ancestral creature will retain the same ERV strain. If the descendants of a creature diverge and become disparate groups, then each group can pick up a new or mutated ERV which will then be retained in that branch only.
Let's say that we have a crown species for all mammals (theria) which we'll call mammalia commonalis. This picks up an exogenuous virus which infects its germ cells. We'll call this virus ERV1. Now, a couple of steps down the line, we have a split between glires and euarchonta. Here, the crown species for glires which we'll call glirus originalis acquires a new virus, ERV2. Next, another few steps down the line, simiiformes diverge from tarsiiformes, with the simiiformes crown species, which we'll call simius primus acquiring a new virus, ERV3.
So when we look at humans, what do we expect to find. We should find a copy of ERV1 which we share with all other mammals, and a copy of ERV3 which is shared only by other simiiformes, but we should not expect to find a copy of ERV2. Also if we look at another species in the same group as us, say chimpanzees, we should not expect to find a copy of ERV2 there either.
Humans, at this point, have 30,000 such ERV sequences in our genome and the evidence we have gathered from comparative genomic analysis of these sequences demonstrates our common descent with other species.
Primer on ERVs:
Endogenuous retrovirus
Research papers:
Differences in HERV-K LTR insertions in orthologous loci of humans and great apes
Genomewide screening for fusogenic human endogenous retrovirus envelopes identifies syncytin 2, a gene conserved on primate evolution
Human Endogenous Retrovirus Family HERV-K(HML-5): Status, Evolution, and Reconstruction of an Ancient Betaretrovirus in the Human Genome
If you want a more specific example of this type of evidence, here is some material on Bornavirus. (Disclaimer: Bornavirus is a non-retroviral RNA virus and so different from the ERVs detailed above but has still replicated in the same fashion)
Bornavirus
Borna disease
Endogenous non-retroviral RNA virus elements in mammalian genomes
3. Chromosomal errors
This section deals with shared chromosomal errors in primates. Sometimes, because our bodies are not that great at copying our genetic information when it comes time for reproduction, an error will be introduced which can render a gene or larger portion of the chromosome useless.
Take, Down's syndrome for example. This is caused by three copies of chromosome 21 being included in the foetus instead of two. Down's isn't the only trisomy syndrome in medicine but it's the most common since chromosome 21 is the smallest chromosome and the only one which the human genome can safely accomodate in triplicate. It is also highly age dependent with the chances of Down's occurring during pregnancy dropping from 1 in 200,000 for a 19 year-old female to 1 in 50 for a 39 year-old.3a - Human chromosome 6
One of the more recent examples of common descent based on chromsomal analysis is the study of a neocentromere on human chromosome 6. An ancient chromosome at some point about 17 million years ago moved position and was rendered functionless. This change is shared in primates and the various mutations in the centromere sequence allowed the chromosome to be dated to between 17 and 23 million years ago. The image below is a simplified version of the graphic presented in the paper which shows how the analysis from each primate allowed the phylogeny of the original centromere to be determined.
Original paper:
Evolutionary descent of a human chromosome 6 neocentromere: A jump back to 17 million years ago
Some primers on neocentromeres:
Neocentromeres: New Insights into Centromere Structure, Disease Development, and Karyotype Evolution
Chromosomal dynamics of human centromere function
Centromere repositioning in mammals
3b - Vitamin C synthesis
Humans, despite being "specially created" according to creationists are replete with examples of inferior construction. We can't see as far as eagles. We can't see at night as well as cats and nocturnal creatures. A lot of these features can be catalogued quite easily. Some of them, however, are a bit more esoteric. For example, Vitamin C is incredibly important for our health. A deficiency in it leads to scurvy. However, humans, along with other primates and guinea pigs, lack the ability to synthesise Vitamin C, unlike other mammals.
We have studied the conditions for Vitamin C synthesis in other mammals and isolated the gene responsible for it, the gulono-γ-lactone oxidase gene which converts glucose to ascorbic acid using an enzyme driven multi-stage process. In humans and other primates, this gene has been rendered functionless and is now just a pseudogene.
Such an "unambiguous" finding is perfectly in keeping with the prediction of common descent but is entirely contradictory to the creationists suggestion that humans were "specially created."
Primer:
Vitamin C biosynthesis in different species
Research:
Cloning and chromosomal mapping of the human nonfunctional gene for L-gulono-gamma-lactone oxidase, the enzyme for L-ascorbic acid biosynthesis missing in man.
Random nucleotide substitutions in primate nonfunctional gene for l-gulono-γ-lactone oxidase, the missing enzyme in l-ascorbic acid biosynthesis
Immunologic evidence that the gene for L-gulono-gamma-lactone oxidase is not expressed in animals subject to scurvy
There are many more examples of pseudogenes and other copying errors but to treat them with any level of detail would take pages and pages so instead I'll leave you with another primer:
Pseudogene
4. Morphology
Morphological evidence, for those who don't already know is the comparison of creatures based on the similarity of physical features. Morphological evidence is some of the earliest evidence in favour of evolution and it remains the most visually striking, like this sequence of skulls:
When viewed on a linear chronological scale, this kind of descent with modification as predicted by evolution can be seen clearly.
However, morphological evidence is not just an intuitive measurement based on how much we think these skulls look alike. When we subject the similarities to rigorous mathematical scrutiny the phylogenic relationship predicted by evolution is confirmed.
Inferring hominoid and early hominid phylogeny using craniodental characters: the role of fossil taxa
What I have presented above is merely a tiny snapshot of the many overlapping evidences for common descent. The evidence for common descent is as unambiguous as it gets with multiple independent verification methods all confirming the prediction of evolution. Common design answers none of the evidence and as we have seen is directly contradicted by it.0 -
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