"The Origin of Specious Nonsense"

robindch

Yep, super-sad folks, but this thread has been going -- in one form or another, and across three forums -- for almost eight years with JC arguably earning the title of the world's longest-serving troll. Actually, "troll" isn't quite the right word, since I suspect she believes what she writes and while everybody else has learned loads from this thread and its predecessors, JC's cluelessness has been consistent to a genuinely amazing degree.

Genghiz Cohen

Cookie monster?

Corkfeen

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

Cookie monster?

A secret insight into the world of moderators I think(A constant supply of cookies). :pac: Damn, now i'm craving a cookie, somebody start baking..........

robindch

[-0-] wrote: »

I was CONVINCED it was that guy who wrote that ridiculous book this thread is named after.

While some posters have alleged that the two are in fact related, this thread has a fossil record that goes way, way back beyond John May's hilarious book.

BTW, I have a signed copy at home which I bought for a tenner at the truly unforgettable launch.

Bannasidhe

robindch wrote: »

Homosexual lawnmowers?????

'Up hill gardening' reference perchance?

[-0-]

robindch wrote: »

BTW, I have a signed copy at home which I bought for a tenner at the truly unforgettable launch.

Dude! That's actually brilliant. I'm ridiculously envious. :pac:

Bannasidhe

Corkfeen wrote: »

A secret insight into the world of moderators I think(A constant supply of cookies). :pac: Damn, now i'm craving a cookie, somebody start baking..........

*hides cookie crumbs and tries to look innocent*

Why I just baked some bat shaped cookies but...oh no! Where have they gone??? The children/dogs/moderators must have eaten them. Bad children/dogs/moderators - BAD!

Da-na, na-na,na-na, na-na - bat cookies, bat cookies, Bat Cook-ies.

robindch

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Homosexual lawnmowers?????

Talk about arriving late to the party! Nice try with the uphill gardening, but here's the actual reference:

Some Gay wrote:

Two men are driving down the interstate when one notices a sign that says "College of Logic 5 miles." Neither one knows what it means and are both curious. The two men take the exit to the college and the driver goes in to investigate. He quickly finds a professor to explain... Driver: "What does 'College of Logic' mean?" Prof: "Well, I can best answer your question by asking you a question, Do you own a Lawn mower?" Driver: "Yes, I do." Prof: "Well, then I can logically assume that you have a yard." Driver: "Yes, I have a very big yard." Prof: "Then I can logically assume that you have a house." Driver: "I have a very big house." Prof: "Then I can logically assume that you have a family." Driver: "I have a wife and two kids." Prof: "Then I can logically assume that you are heterosexual." Driver: "Yes Sir, straight as a board, always have been. I think I understand what this school is all about, thank you for your time." Then the driver heads back out to the car to continue on his way. When he gets back to the car, the passenger asks about the school... Passenger: "So, what's it all about?" Driver: "Well, I can best answer your question by asking you a question, Do you own a Lawn mower?" Passenger: "No." Driver: "Then you're a Homo!"

robindch

[-0-] wrote: »

Dude! That's actually brilliant. I'm ridiculously envious

I wouldn't be too envious. But -- and my eyes mist over at this point -- that book launch. What an evening, just over two years ago:

robindch wrote: »

Right. Photos can wait.

This was one weird, weird evening.

I only decided to cycle up at quarter to seven from pearse street and things were already under way with a few people in the bar and almost nobody at all in the room downstairs where he was supposed to do the talk. I signed myself into the guest book as Charles Darwin, just after Abraham Lincoln did. The bouncer on the door was bemused by the whole thing. Back upstairs and outside the hotel, May was giving in interview in a stretch pink lomiusine to the "UK-based television crew" that was making a "documentary". There were large pink lip marks down the side of the limo and I'm sure they signified something, but I'm buggered if I know what.

Back inside and a spectacularly badly-dressed up Darwin had arrived with four tits and a gorilla. These were photographed by a guy whom I suppose was being paid for by May, who was himself delivering a rant to a surprised-looking lady from the Irish Times.

Time passed and a few more people came in, some of whom were familiar from various skeptical events around town (Hi, Steve * 2!) and I suppose around half seven things got going with around 35 people in the short-chaired room and May began a long rant about the usual stuff. Putting my finger in the air, I'd have said there were ten or fifteen family, friends and creationists and the rest were along for the hell of it.

It was all predictable enough, though the atmosphere was lightened a lot by one well-known blogger who sat more or less underneath May's nose and who kept on breaking into fits of very infectious giggles every minute or two. A new Darwin, the gorilla and the four tits arrived in and May delivered a surreal lecture about perfect sperms, perfect penises and perfect vaginas, er, coming together to produce perfect babies with another dose of his "well, like, a baby isn't wrinkled" objection to evolutionary science. During one dramatic gesture, he almost took the head off one of the pair of breasts who was standing too close behind him.

Somebody must have dropped upstairs to the bar and told them about the table full of free booze downstairs, since what I think was the entire contents of Buswell's bar arrived in over a ten minute period to being the total number of people up to maybe sixty or seventy.

With the aircon off, it began to get quite heated and not just because some big guy arrived from somewhere, well oiled and waving a glass of wine around in the air and started a high-energy Q+A, then some mild heckling and ultimately him and May ended up in a full-on exchange of four-letter insults at the tops of their voices. Both had to be mildly restrained from going at each other. May then stoped the meeting, so everybody turned around and grabbed as much wine as they could from the forty or so bottles at the back. It took an hour for everybody to finish this, at which point, everybody evaporated back up to the bar upstairs.

I bought a copy of the book -- hey, it's research! -- and I'd say about ten, max, other people did, leaving around fifty unsold in a pile on the desk beside the booze. I counted four creationists (I asked them) and I'd say that was about half of the total. Everybody else was there for free drink.

Interesting fact from the night -- two people reported that John May used to be a Jehovah's Witness and in the early 1980's, lead a schism in which half of the JW's in Dublin left the organization.

Quote from page one of the book:

John May, Page 1 wrote:

To undertake the extirpation of fond fictions from the mind is, I know, irrefragably fraught with explosive consequences. Therefore, I begin as I mean to finish, gently with simple explanations for complex concepts and hopefully to elevate reason and true science as a magnate to sanity, purpose and a future with hope.

No, they are not misspellings -- they're verbatim.

"The Origin of Specious Nonsense" is available, via his website, for fifteen euro from several large and almost completely full crates in John May's garage.

[-0-]

robindch wrote: »

I wouldn't be too envious. But -- and my eyes mist over at this point -- that book launch. What an evening, just over two years ago:

That's it. I'm calling you Charles from now on.

Bannasidhe

Originally Posted by John May, Page 1
To undertake the extirpation of fond fictions from the mind is, I know, irrefragably fraught with explosive consequences. Therefore, I begin as I mean to finish, gently with simple explanations for complex concepts and hopefully to elevate reason and true science as a magnate to sanity, purpose and a future with hope.

Wow - just wow. Student teacher quality prose if I'm any judge.

Improbable

For those of you who weren't around then or didn't catch the radio show, John May actually appeared on a Belfield FM radio show along with Stefano Mariani and made actual comments like "I've never seen half a penis". Go back and look through the older posts for a good laugh.

PopePalpatine

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

I think Robin originally introduced the "J C is a girl" meme, presumably on the basis that nothing s/he says can be taken for granted as true.

If J C was a girl, she wouldn't post - she would be in violation of 1 Timothy 2:12-3, because she is dictating to men.

Bannasidhe

PopePalpatine wrote: »

If J C was a girl, she wouldn't post - she would be in violation of 1 Timothy 2:12-3, because she is dictating to men.

That so deserves a lollypop

fatmammycat

As a matter of interest John J May is trying to hawk a weight loss book these days, will nary a mention of his 'evilution' book.

http://www.loser.ie/

doctoremma

I didn't know JC is a girl. I guess the eye-watering smilies make a bit more sense...

Sierra 117

fatmammycat wrote: »

As a matter of interest John J May is trying to hawk a weight loss book these days, will nary a mention of his 'evilution' book.

http://www.loser.ie/

"What is my amazing weight loss tactic you ask? Well, you'll watch me flail around trying (and utterly failing) to disprove evolution which will disgust you so much that you won't be able to keep any food down! And if there's one thing I know, it's that I know nothing about evolution"

loser.ie ... how apt.

Delirium

fatmammycat wrote: »

As a matter of interest John J May is trying to hawk a weight loss book these days, will nary a mention of his 'evilution' book.

http://www.loser.ie/

Weight loss program probably involves throwing balls into the air and watching to see if they fall to form a perfect circle :pac:

fatmammycat

Oh no doubt there's some squiffy 'science' behind this one too. I am most amused by the guarantee certificate.

mickrock

The recent examples given of beneficial random mutations are very underwhelming.

Random mutations are part of the driving force of neo-Darwinian theory, yet the scarcity of evidence for ones that give novelty, new function or increased complexity hugely undermines the grand claims of the theory. One of the two pillars of the theory is so shaky that it can't be too long before it comes crashing down.

The blind watchmaker seems pretty useless.

sephir0th

robindch

mickrock wrote: »

The recent examples given of beneficial random mutations are very underwhelming.

If you bothered reading any of what other posters have taken the time and energy to give you, you might find them at least informing, if not overwhelming.

ShooterSF

I find examples of gravity underwhelming too. C'mon gravity do a dance or something. Really wow me or I'm just gonna go float off this rock.

Turtwig

mickrock wrote: »

The recent examples given of beneficial random mutations are very underwhelming.

Random mutations are part of the driving force of neo-Darwinian theory, yet the scarcity of evidence for ones that give novelty, new function or increased complexity hugely undermines the grand claims of the theory. One of the two pillars of the theory is so shaky that it can't be too long before it comes crashing down.

The blind watchmaker seems pretty useless.

I have a proposition for you :
Instead of arguing against evolution how about you let Oldrnwisr, doctoremma, Ziphius, Zombrex, dlfonep and few others of the regulars do that. Your task, should you choose to accept it, is to argue for evolution. It'll be a roll reversal to see if you actually understand the other side's arguments and also to see if they understand yours.

So what do you say?

mickrock

ShooterSF wrote: »

I find examples of gravity underwhelming too. C'mon gravity do a dance or something. Really wow me or I'm just gonna go float off this rock.

Gravity is a fact and there is a theory of gravity to try to explain it.

Likewise the neo-Darwinian theory attempts to explain evolution.

King Mob

mickrock wrote: »

Gravity is a fact and there is a theory of gravity to try to explain it.

Likewise the neo-Darwinian theory attempts to explain evolution.

But you've already admitted that you believe in the fact of evolution.
You believe that allele frequencies change over time.....

And since you're unable to address any of the points given to you, you know that "neo-darwinian" theory explains it very well.

So why are you still making these silly insistences?

mickrock

Jernal wrote: »

I have a proposition for you :
Instead of arguing against evolution how about you let Oldrnwisr, doctoremma, Ziphius, Zombrex, dlfonep and few others of the regulars do that. Your task, should you choose to accept it, is to argue for evolution. It'll be a roll reversal to see if you actually understand the other side's arguments and also to see if they understand yours.

So what do you say?

It would be 10 against one and I don't think I have the energy.

BTW It's neo-Darwinian theory I'm criticising and not evolution as such.

robindch

mickrock wrote: »

It would be 10 against one and I don't think I have the energy.

Well, you certainly haven't demonstrated any willingness to expend any energy thus far.

So, rather than following in JC's content-free footsteps any further, can you please either respond to any of the points made or drop the topic.

Ziphius

mickrock wrote: »

It would be 10 against one and I don't think I have the energy.

BTW It's neo-Darwinian theory I'm criticising and not evolution as such.

So you accept that evolution does occur -- that allele frequencies change over time in a population and that natural selection is (mostly) responsible for this?

Can you clarify what, exactly, your criticisms of neodarwinism is? Is it simply that you cannot see how new genes arise?