"The Origin of Specious Nonsense"

Galvasean

Improbable wrote: »

Let's not forget original sin. To continue the analogy, supposedly, we're to be punished for what some fictional characters in a storybook did thousands of years before we were even born. Yeah, nice concept of justice.

Logical equivalent:

Cop: "You're going to jai!"
Me: "Why?"
Cop: "Ghengis Khan."

J C

Galvasean wrote: »

What crime have the non-believers committed? Other than not believing in a god who created them with doubtful minds?

They have committed the same 'crime' as the Saved ... they are all sinners.

Galvasean

J C wrote: »

They have committed the same 'crime' as the Saved ... they are sinners.

So they are guilty for the sake of being guilty? Nice.

Judge: "Verdict, guilty!"
Me: "Guilty of what?"
Judge: "Being guilty!"

J C

Galvasean wrote: »

So they are guilty for the sake of being guilty? Nice.

Judge: "Verdict, guilty!"
Me: "Guilty of what?"
Judge: "Being guilty!"

They are guilty of being sinners.

Galvasean

J C wrote: »

They are guilty of being sinners.

So you keep saying....

equivariant

J C wrote: »

... if you reject God's mercy you will receive His Justice ... and get your wish ... to spend eternity with Satan and his minions.

That is not my wish. You cannot assume that just because I reject god I want to spend eternity in misery.

So this is your god's so called "love".

According to you, he says "love me and I will give you eternal happiness, reject me and I will give you eternal misery" and you think that this is a merciful and good god?

In my view, he is a right arsehole (fortunately he doesn't exist anyway , but if he did he would be an arsehole). Proper love and respect do not come with strings attached.

PS Imagine how you would treat a (real) person who said to his children "love me or I'll kick you out of the house and do my best to make your life misery". I think that such a person would be worthy of utter contempt. Yet that is exactly the behaviour that you ascribe to your own god. Indeed you even go so far as to use the words "children" and "father" in that context. Is that the way you treat your own children?

Galvasean

If he truly did love us he would do everything in his (seemingly unlimited) power to help us avoid eternal suffering. According to J C's logic God basically shrugs his shoulders and says, "You had your chance" and lets you suffer.

Rev Hellfire

Galvasean wrote: »

According to J C's logic God basically shrugs his shoulders and says, "You had your chance" and lets you suffer.

Its worse than that, since he knows you're going to fail he sits back and then punishes you later for it. Bit of a sadist this loving god.

MrPudding

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

Its worse than that, since he knows you're going to fail he sits back and then punishes you later for it. Bit of a sadist this loving god.

It's worse even than that. he created the flaw in humans, knowing what the result would be. So not only does he know you will fail, but he set it up that way.

MrP

Galvasean

Bastard.

J C

Galvasean wrote: »

So you keep saying....

... when you keep asking ...

J C

equivariant wrote: »

That is not my wish. You cannot assume that just because I reject god I want to spend eternity in misery.

So this is your god's so called "love".

According to you, he says "love me and I will give you eternal happiness, reject me and I will give you eternal misery" and you think that this is a merciful and good god?

In my view, he is a right arsehole (fortunately he doesn't exist anyway , but if he did he would be an arsehole). Proper love and respect do not come with strings attached.

PS Imagine how you would treat a (real) person who said to his children "love me or I'll kick you out of the house and do my best to make your life misery". I think that such a person would be worthy of utter contempt. Yet that is exactly the behaviour that you ascribe to your own god. Indeed you even go so far as to use the words "children" and "father" in that context. Is that the way you treat your own children?

God is indeed like a loving father who wants His children to use their freedom for good ... but, if they don't, He won't remove their freedom ... and turn them into robots.
... instead, He will give them their wish ... to be with Satan and his minions.

Freedom comes with responsibility, unfortunately.

J C

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

Its worse than that, since he knows you're going to fail he sits back and then punishes you later for it. Bit of a sadist this loving god.

We are all sinners ... so we have all failed and fallen short of the mark!!!

Jesus will forgive all of our sins ... and all we have to do is to just repent and ask Him.

I don't see what is so difficult about that!!

... and yet many un-Saved harden their hearts and reject Him.

King Mob

J C wrote: »

God is indeed like a loving father who wants His children to use their freedom for good ... but, if they don't, He won't remove their freedom ... and turn them into robots.
... instead, He will give them their wish ... to be with Satan and his minions.

Freedom comes with responsibility, unfortunately.

Just like how the mugger gives his victim their wish of being smashed in the face.

He is indeed a merciful mugger.

Jeez you'd think with you not being a Christian and not actually believing this would let you use a bit more logic JC.

equivariant

J C wrote: »

God is indeed like a loving father who wants His children to use their freedom for good ... but, if they don't, He won't remove their freedom ... and turn them into robots.
... instead, He will give them their wish ... to be with Satan and his minions.

Freedom comes with responsibility, unfortunately.

If this is your idea of loving parenthood then I fear for your children

Improbable

"Freedom" does not take the form of "worship me or suffer for eternity". That's not freedom. It is in fact the opposite of freedom. It is subjugation and slavery.

liamw

J C

King Mob wrote: »

Just like how the mugger gives his victim their wish of being smashed in the face.

He is indeed a merciful mugger.

Jeez you'd think with you not being a Christian and not actually believing this would let you use a bit more logic JC.

The correct analogy is that of an adult child who continues with high-risk behaviour despite his father advising him and pleading with him to not do so.

... if he then gets mugged ... the father will be heart-broken ... but the child will only have himself to blame.

... would you prefer that the father locked his son in a bedroom and didn't allow him to ever go out into the world???

5uspect

Nah, just lock him up and punish him forever after he gets mugged.
Your god is such a piece of scum.

J C

Improbable wrote: »

"Freedom" does not take the form of "worship me or suffer for eternity". That's not freedom. It is in fact the opposite of freedom. It is subjugation and slavery.

It ultimately comes down to whether you want to be with Satan or God ... and the choice can only be made by you.

J C

5uspect wrote: »

Nah, just lock him up and punish him forever after he gets mugged.
Your god is such a piece of scum.

... why do you have such a problem having your sins forgiven?

... and why do you complain that you have the freedom to choose between God and Satan?

King Mob

J C wrote: »

The correct analogy is that of an adult child who continues with high-risk behaviour despite his father advising him and pleading with him to not do so.

... if he then gets mugged ... the father will be heart-broken ... but the child will only have himself to blame.

... would you prefer that the father locked his son in a bedroom and didn't allow him to ever go out into the world???

Except that the father is the one who actually made the dangers that wait for the kid, and the father gave the kid the desire for the behaviour even though he knows that it would lead him to danger, and the father already knows how the kid will choose including if he just follows his natural impulse which his father gave him.

And seriously you think that the victim is to blame for being mugged?

Oh wait, of course you don't. You're just Trollin'.

King Mob

5uspect wrote: »

Nah, just lock him up and punish him forever after he gets mugged.
Your god is such a piece of scum.

Correction, lock him up with the mugger forever.

5uspect

J C wrote: »

... why do you have such a problem having your sins forgiven?

... and why do you complain that you have the freedom to choose between God and Satan?

God is a child raping, mass murdering scumbag. What has Satan ever done?

Fortunately neither of them exist.

J C

King Mob wrote: »

Except that the father is the one who actually made the dangers that wait for the kid, and the father gave the kid the desire for the behaviour even though he knows that it would lead him to danger, and the father already knows how the kid will choose including if he just follows his natural impulse which his father gave him.

And seriously you think that the victim is to blame for being mugged?

The dangers were created by free actors acting freely (and in opposition to) the Father.

The child also has the freedom to choose to accept or reject the Father's offer to protect him.

... and yes, somebody who ignores all advice and deliberately rejects the Father's protection ... and then gets mugged is indeed to blame for his own difficulties!!!!

5uspect

King Mob wrote: »

Correction, lock him up with the mugger forever.

The mugger is clearly Jesus.

J C

5uspect wrote: »

God is a child raping, mass murdering scumbag. What has Satan ever done?

... Satan bears the ultimate responsiblity for all of the evil in the world.

5uspect wrote: »

Fortunately neither of them exist.

You are speaking of them as if both exist ... and I can assure you that they do.

King Mob

J C wrote: »

The dangers were created by free actors acting freely (and in opposition to) the Father.

The child also has the freedom to choose to accept or reject the Father's offer to protect him.

... and yes, somebody who ignores all advice and deliberately rejects the Father's protection ... and then gets mugged is indeed to blame for his own difficulties!!!!

I too would absolutely fear for you children if these were want you believe good and evil and freedom are.

Luckily you don't really believe this nonsense.

J C

5uspect wrote: »

The mugger is clearly Jesus.

A man who died so that we all could live.

A man who condemned religious hypocrites ... and forgave sinners.

J C

King Mob wrote: »

I too would absolutely fear for you children if these were want you believe good and evil and freedom are.

Luckily you don't really believe this nonsense.

I did say adult children ... so what do you think that a loving father should do when an adult child decides to go his own way and engages in risky behaviour ???

Should he lock up the child? ... or just wait and 'be there' for the child if they repent and return to him ... just like the 'prodigal son.'