Advice For Returning Biker

ATC110

Hello folks, I've had a full 'A' licence for over twenty years and used to commute in England by bike many years ago and want to get back in to biking.

To justify getting a bike, I'm thinking about becoming an ADI to generate some income from the bike especially now due to Compulsory Basic Training coming in to law. The problem I foresee is the off-road compound required - the standards set by the RSA are exacting to say the least. My first question is has any other ADI addressed this issue and if so how? Is there anyone who is also considering becoming an ADI?

The next question is about the bike. Regardless of becoming and ADI or not I'm going ot take some refresher lessons but I fancy a bike with some pizazz - like a BMW K1300R or Honda CBR 1100XX. These are fast bikes but I'm reluctant to get a smaller bike and then have to sell it again in the foreseeable future. Is it unwise and unrealistic to get this type of bike? If so can anyone advise on what type I should be looking for?

Thanks for any replies.

RosieJoe

Do you not need to be highly trained yourself before becoming an ADI? I would have thought you needed to be RoSPA Gold standard to become a trainer, but I might be wrong!

IMO, this is what is very wrong with CBT. People coming out of the woodwork thinking they can make a quick buck out of it. Not going to be easy seeing as you need to stump up a lot of cash first to get the correct set up going, buy school bikes, insurance, get trained, get recognised by the RSA and then finally getting a good reputation from the biking community. Only then will you start to succeed.

ATC110

RosieJoe wrote: »

Do you not need to be highly trained yourself before becoming an ADI? I would have thought you needed to be RoSPA Gold standard to become a trainer, but I might be wrong!

Yes you are correct and this is what I intend to do.

IMO, this is what is very wrong with CBT. People coming out of the woodwork thinking they can make a quick buck out of it.

Not the case. I have no interest in making "a quick buck" rather a way of offsetting some of the cost of owning a bike and a genuine interest in teaching others how to ride safely.

Not going to be easy seeing as you need to stump up a lot of cash first to get the correct set up going, buy school bikes, insurance, get trained, get recognised by the RSA and then finally getting a good reputation from the biking community. Only then will you start to succeed.

And that is what I would do if I decide to embark upon this career / hobby.

Perhaps a constructive reply would be more helpful.

Idleater

ATC110 wrote: »

Perhaps a constructive reply would be more helpful.

I was going to post something similar to RosieJoe, but more along the lines of being concerned that a 20year absentee biker was contemplating getting back on the road on a Blackbird, with immediate aspirations of teaching at Advanced Driving Instructor level.

Now, I'm not one that generally advocates small beginner bikes (you can see my post history in any recommend a bike thread), so I'm not going to fault your choice of bike to return on, but I would be interested to know if you have still got your A licence category (i.e. just renewed that category over the past 20 years)?

My advice to you is that while what you are contemplating is admirable, I really think that some sense of proportion and achievable goals should be sought here. Realistically, bikes are different to 20 years ago, teaching methods are different, society views bikes differently to 20 years ago. One step at a time, certainly if you still have the A licence and are setting out on a Blackbird - that is a big conquest right there.

I've renewed my RoSPA twice now with 2 Silvers (equated to Police training), done 2 BikeSafe courses, and I in no way consider myself ready to even begin to think about teaching others professionally.

Why don't you give us some more information on what interests you on returning to biking, perhaps also on your choice of bike. I'd also be very interested to hear your views on training in general, particularly because I would be one of your potential customers.

P.C.

This is the third forum I have seen this posted on.

Idleater

P.C. wrote: »

This is the third forum I have seen this posted on.

same dude?

What are the other responses like? Do Boards bikers fare better than bicker.ie and worse than ibf?

P.C.

nereid wrote: »

same dude?

What are the other responses like? Do Boards bikers fare better than bicker.ie and worse than ibf?

Same dude.
With the expception of these words:

just joined the forum and am looking for advice.

it is the same post in each forum.

The replies are fairly steriotypical* of each forum

Forum 1 - get a bike, and enjoy, but don't worry about becoming a trainer, there is a lot less money in it than you think.

Forum 2 - Hahaha - you want to what? HTFU!




*spelling

trad

I'm surprised at the comment that a Rospa Silver equals Police Training. I have undergone Garda motorcycle training which was 3 weeks for the basic course and 2 weeks for the advanced, thats 200 hours of instruction.

I looked at motorcycle instruction as an earner and couldn't see a reasonable return on it.

Idleater

trad wrote: »

I'm surprised at the comment that a Rospa Silver equals Police Training. I have undergone Garda motorcycle training which was 3 weeks for the basic course and 2 weeks for the advanced, thats 200 hours of instruction.

I'm surprised an officer of the law is surprised that civilian is willing to undertake training to strive to the same level as them, of their own free will.
Should I be surprised if you tell me you are learning java enterprise because I have a degree in it?
The equivalence is in relation to the level of civilian training done. Insurance companies give you the same 33% discount as me and your gold holding examiner. RoSPA training teaches civilians to the same level that you are taught before you do the non civilian specific aspects of your course such as pursuit, higher than legal speed maneuvers, etc.

Having done said course you would be familiar with the principles that one is always learning, and that its not the amount of hours one spends on the bike to sit the same exam. While I would love to spend 3 weeks on the bike learning all the things you are taught, I may not do so.

As it happens, I've probably been assessed by the same examiner as you, so you can ask him about learning outside of specific scheduled lessons next time you do your refresher course.

ATC110

P.C. wrote: »

This is the third forum I have seen this posted on.

nereid wrote: »

same dude?

What are the other responses like? Do Boards bikers fare better than bicker.ie and worse than ibf?

P.C. wrote: »

Same dude.
With the expception of these words:

it is the same post in each forum.

The replies are fairly steriotypical* of each forum

Forum 1 - get a bike, and enjoy, but don't worry about becoming a trainer, there is a lot less money in it than you think.

Forum 2 - Hahaha - you want to what? HTFU!



*spelling

The above posts are bizarre - some members obviously have a problem with others simply trying to find out information which seems to be intentionally off-putting.

Idleater

ATC110 wrote: »

The above posts are bizarre - some members obviously have a problem with others simply trying to find out information which seems to be intentionally off-putting.

No offence was intended by my post. I've been around here a while and am a strong advocate of training as you can see by my post above. I do not have a problem with anyone that's interested in learning.

I also gave you constructive comments earlier. What you have quoted is taken out of context.

P.C.

ATC110 wrote: »

Thanks for any replies.

ATC110 wrote: »

Perhaps a constructive reply would be more helpful.

ATC110 wrote: »

The above posts are bizarre - some members obviously have a problem with others simply trying to find out information which seems to be intentionally off-putting.

No problem.

Pick which forum you want to post the question on, and then follow the thread.
There have been plenty of replies on the other forums, but you have not followed them up - why not?

Good advice here: http://www.irishbikerforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=85614

Irlandski

ATC110 wrote: »

The above posts are bizarre - some members obviously have a problem with others simply trying to find out information which seems to be intentionally off-putting.

My experience as follows... Got back into biking 4 years ago after an absence of 20 years. Bought a Honda Deauville and racked up over 10,000 miles each year for the last four years (Ireland Uk Europe Russia)
Did the BikeSafe and then AON assesment. Then did RoSPA Silver. Completed RoSPA Diploma in Advanced Riding Instruction a short time ago and awaiting result. Have RoSPA Gold for skills from that course.
I am hoping to become an ADI for general training and to do Insurance and RoSPA assesments. (I believe I can do the latter two with the RoSPA Dip) I'm not sure about getting into the CBT as yet. I think it'll be part time in any event, If I could spin a few lessons /month for a start I'd be happy.

Idleater

Fair play to you Irlandski, that's an impressive record, and very illustrative of the effort required and time involved.
Might look you up for my refresher exam next year.

Paparazzo

They're 2 of the fastest vehicles on the road. What did you ride before? I reckon if money is a problem get a older model bike. A k1300r is expensive. A nice 2005/2006 k1200r would be a better idea, and you'll get an old blackbird cheap enough.

trad

nereid, I merely expressed surprise that the rospa is considered the same as garda training. I am delighted that people would put in the time and effort to attain the standard that I am familiar with and it is heartening to see that police motorcycle training is looked upon as the standard to attain.

No need to be on your high horse and I won't be doing any refresher courses, I'm a few years out of the job.

galwaytt

sorry, the chit-chat about training is all very well, and there is a veritable stable of (high) horses available on short notice, on all sides, but....OP, one point you raised, and no-one has commented on, is that of the off-road space you need.

It is considerable - if you have it already, great, but can you get insurance for it ?

If you don't have the space, then I cannot possibly see how it would pay to buy it.

Which creates a dilemma: who does ? And thanks to this lunatic civil-suit-happy society we've created for ourselves, the likes of the big spaces you could use - big car parks etc, are simply not available. All this despite me seeing bike lessons being freely given in a Carrefours car park in France, years ago, in a coned-off corner. See how far you'd get with Dunnes/Tesco trying that.....

Pique

galwaytt wrote: »

And thanks to this lunatic civil-suit-happy society we've created for ourselves, the likes of the big spaces you could use - big car parks etc, are simply not available. All this despite me seeing bike lessons being freely given in a Carrefours car park in France, years ago, in a coned-off corner. See how far you'd get with Dunnes/Tesco trying that.....

Carparks are public areas. Privately owned, maybe, but still public areas. Unless they're gated up after work, then you, I, or anyone can go and learn to walk, drive, ride, unicycle in them and without a barring order, could not be stopped.

ATC110

P.C. wrote: »

No problem.

Pick which forum you want to post the question on, and then follow the thread.
There have been plenty of replies on the other forums, but you have not followed them up - why not?

Good advice here: http://www.irishbikerforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=85614

What's that got to do with the matter or are you just trying to be antagonistic?

Paparazzo

ATC110 wrote: »

What's that got to do with the matter or are you just trying to be antagonistic?

He's giving advice, which is what you asked for.
I'd forget about training for the moment tbh. If I had to fork out for 16 hours cbt I'd want the trainer to have a lot more experience. Not to mention the cost of it all.

Irlandski

nereid wrote: »

Fair play to you Irlandski, that's an impressive record, and very illustrative of the effort required and time involved.
Might look you up for my refresher exam next year.

H'mmm, thanks, but I don't know if you could affoard me!

Idleater

Irlandski wrote: »

H'mmm, thanks, but I don't know if you could affoard me!

well, in that case, I'll take the cheaper option between you and MSA...

P.C.

ATC110 wrote: »

What's that got to do with the matter or are you just trying to be antagonistic?

It is what you asked for: Advice.

I am glad to see that you got back to the posters on IBF.

Hopefully we will see you out on the road sometime soon.

Roadskill

Irlandski wrote: »

My experience as follows... Got back into biking 4 years ago after an absence of 20 years. Bought a Honda Deauville and racked up over 10,000 miles each year for the last four years (Ireland Uk Europe Russia)
Did the BikeSafe and then AON assesment. Then did RoSPA Silver. Completed RoSPA Diploma in Advanced Riding Instruction a short time ago and awaiting result. Have RoSPA Gold for skills from that course.
I am hoping to become an ADI for general training and to do Insurance and RoSPA assesments. (I believe I can do the latter two with the RoSPA Dip) I'm not sure about getting into the CBT as yet. I think it'll be part time in any event, If I could spin a few lessons /month for a start I'd be happy.

Well done Irlandski I hope you get the result you deserve.
I am an ADI and the was first motorcycle ADI in the country. I hold the RoSPA Dip, RoSPA Gold grade, Ex IRTA director, Star Rider instructor, Aon/Quinn assessor since 2004 and an approved train the trainer for all 3 stages of the ADI exams from the RSA.
I have been teaching motorcyclist in Ireland since 1998 and before that in the UK doing CBT.
My point is (AS Irlandski has found) it takes a lot of effort, time and money to become the best you can be for your proffession and since the RSA announced CBT I have recieved at least 10 calls a week from riders wanting to become ADI's. I have invested at least €100k of the banks money so far and have been set up for CBT for the last 3 years as it was supposed to come in back then. I donate for free my premises and time to the Gardai for Bikesafe and we are now sanctioned as the official centre for the South east region. It will not be as easy as people think to set up as an instructor and it is certainly not an easy way to earn a living. Anyone thinking of this should consider it carefully.

Roadskill

ATC110

Thanks for the replies - the ADI training will have to wait...a while!

I want to minimise my costs initially - does anyone know where to get good second hand gear from?

RosieJoe

ATC110 wrote: »

Thanks for the replies - the ADI training will have to wait...a while!

I want to minimise my costs initially - does anyone know where to get good second hand gear from?

Cotters in Dublin would be the best place to pick cheap new gear up. You might get a deal if you buy loads of stuff at once.

Crossans in Newry has a big sale coming up in late October if you can wait that long.