Budget 2011 ideas

RobbieTheRobber · 18-10-2010 2:06pm

robtri wrote: »

6. All PS workers pay cut 20%

It would be much simpler just to house all public servants in a secured compound and feed them enough to keep them alive, for this free food they can continue doing their jobs!

Those found not to be working hard enough could then be summarily executed!

robtri · 18-10-2010 3:36pm

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

It would be much simpler just to house all public servants in a secured compound and feed them enough to keep them alive, for this free food they can continue doing their jobs!

Those found not to be working hard enough could then be summarily executed!

ahh that a bit harsh.... a lot of them do very important work..

RobbieTheRobber · 18-10-2010 3:42pm

robtri wrote: »

ahh that a bit harsh.... a lot of them do very important work..

Well i doubt any of them, that do important work will stay for 20% less pay so perhaps we should intern them and use them as forced labour so that we stand a chance of retaining some talented or useful people within our public services.

robtri · 18-10-2010 4:14pm

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Well i doubt any of them, that do important work will stay for 20% less pay so perhaps we should intern them and use them as forced labour so that we stand a chance of retaining some talented or useful people within our public services.

i look at it like a business, we dont have the money to continue paying them at their current rates,
if theis was a private business they would have to take a pay cut or loose their jobs... a lot of private companies have had to do this...
why should the PS be exempt from this..

and a 20% pay cut is still a lot more than the dole payments

jessiejam · 18-10-2010 4:17pm

F*k it cut everything the government pay out in welfare, education, health and PS wages by 20%.

Re-assess all SW recipients again and weed out the fraudsters.

Then insure that all living costs, ESB, food, heating, petrol, childcare etc are also cut by 20%

Sorted.

changes · 18-10-2010 4:21pm

What do you do robtri? i'd guess you work in the private sector.

I love the way you are only willing to give up 1% to aid recovery in the form of an income levy but you prescribe a 20% PS pay reduction and a 30% social welfare reduction

You see this is the problem... everyone wants everyone else to bear the brunt.

jessiejam · 18-10-2010 4:21pm

robtri wrote: »

i look at it like a business, we dont have the money to continue paying them at their current rates,
if theis was a private business they would have to take a pay cut or loose their jobs... a lot of private companies have had to do this...
why should the PS be exempt from this..

and a 20% pay cut is still a lot more than the dole payments

The public sector is not a business. The PS has already taken more than their fair share of pay cuts. And there are PS workers loosing their jobs by contracts not being renewed. Only difference is its not all over the news. By cutting the PS wages by 20% your are bringing another few thousand staff into the FIS eligibility area. 100k are already in reciept of this.
Doesn't really make sense.

Sunset V · 18-10-2010 4:24pm

deelite wrote: »

Here are my ideas (probably not logical to some).

1. Child Benefit - Marry the child benefit with school attendance (home school children - not sure about them yet). If the child stays in school and completes their final exam they should receive an extra bonus - say 500 euro.

If they cut the child benefit - I feel that all should receive free medical, prescriptions, school books.

2. Housing - there's so many empty council houses at the moment - I strongly feel that these should be offered to people receiving Rental Allowance (if they reject 3 council houses - then it's goodbye to Rental Allowance).

3. Cigs. Bring the price of smokes down so smokers will go back to buying them in the local shop rather than on the black market.

4. Property Tax - just a question rather than a point - will the Councils have to pay this tax.

There's just a few quick ideas - probably not been thought out properly.

I think everything on here is spot on....

neilster · 18-10-2010 4:39pm

There are large number of people on low incomes in the public sector , when you make a statement about 20% cuts , i am on around the average industrial wage and i have a mortgage and a cut like that would be crippling . After a cut of 9% already you are honestly contemplating another cut ?

At the middle mgt levels etc there are definite excess staff and excess salaries . The fact that after 31/12/11 their pensions will no longer be at 2009 levels or the lump-sum taxed , people are leaving in droves .

I work for a local authority and we culled about 9% (contract employees) last year and about 10% more will leave over 2010 and 2011 over retirement

That is serious cuts in staff and we are being moved and re-assigned as we speak (im being moved as the first 4 staff being re-assigned in our whole local authority) so if people think that the CP agreement isnt taking effect it is

WalterMitty · 18-10-2010 5:07pm

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Well i doubt any of them, that do important work will stay for 20% less pay so perhaps we should intern them and use them as forced labour so that we stand a chance of retaining some talented or useful people within our public services.

20% cut would only bring them back to early 2000s levels. Dont remember PS workers leaving over pay then. Theres hundreds of thousands waitign to take the jobs if they leave anyway. Good riddance.

20Cent · 18-10-2010 5:19pm

How about a bit of leadership.
Say ministers take a big cut, cut a load of TD expenses, vouchered only.
Get rid of some quangos, jail a few bankers.
Then come back to the PS with a pay cut, at least they would have a leg to stand on then.

fedup001 · 18-10-2010 5:31pm

gurramok wrote: »

As well transport and political system changes that were mentioned..

Slash Mortgage Interest Relief and Rental Supplement. A few hundred million saving right there which will help lower accommodation costs.

Reduce Child benefit for those who have more than 2 kids no matter what your income is. You need to afford kids before bringing them into the world as 2 is more than enough for population replacement.

Reduce Lone Parents allowance and encourage marriage by financially incentivising it which will help stamp out social welfare fraud from single mothers.

Make it attractive to work for parents(single or married) as the welfare amount right now does not make it worthwhile to work(see points 5 & 6)

Severely reduce the dole for those who never worked, they should not be entitled to the same amount as those who worked. Increase the dole for those that actually worked using a sliding scale of how long you worked for and decreasing the dole as the longer you are on the dole. This way, work is incentivised.

Severely reduce the dole for those who live with their parents by way of decreasing the limits for means testing so if a family member works, you would get feck all dole.
To counteract fraud/careerists...if those parents are on the dole/welfare, find a way of job placement to discourage career doleists.

You are not very good at looking at the situation from someone elses point of view.
1. You must own your own house and are not paying a mortgage that has brought you into negative equity. People are relying on this assistance. It would cost more in social housing schemes if these people lost their homes.

2. I am unable to work for health reasons, I am happily married but according to your view I am not entitled to have a family.

3. You have a bee in your bonnet about marraige and lone mothers, They are far from the only people responsible for social welfare fraud. Marraige is a choice these days many unmarried couples raise their children without help from the state.

4. Single or married mothers not returning to work has very little to do with the social welfare payment and more to do with the excessive cost of childcare. Many mothers would return to work if the majority if not all they earn, only covers childcare.

You did have a very vaild point regarding the social welfare being a career choice...Many young healthy people in Ireland never worked a day. They appear to go unchecked by the social. After filling out the initial forms do they actually have to show any proof of seeking work ???? they have to register with fas but it should be flagged to the social if a client is repeatedly refusing work or not making applications. Decreasing rates for long term unemployment. Personally I wish I could return to work and find this culture in Ireland extremely frustrating.

pedigree · 18-10-2010 8:40pm

Hi,
How about the intruduction of a new tax at the rate of 90% for pension benefits in excess of €75,000.00 per annum.
Regards
Pedigree

robtri · 18-10-2010 8:46pm

changes wrote: »

What do you do robtri? i'd guess you work in the private sector.

I love the way you are only willing to give up 1% to aid recovery in the form of an income levy but you prescribe a 20% PS pay reduction and a 30% social welfare reduction

You see this is the problem... everyone wants everyone else to bear the brunt.

Yes i work in th private sector, and like a lot of other employees, I have already taken a 22% pay cut, and i am willing still to accept a further increase in tax take....

20% is a lot to swallow but much prefer it to being on the dole....

and yes I prescribe a 30% social welfare cut...
in our current state of affairs social welfare should just cover the cost of living, end iff

robtri · 18-10-2010 8:51pm

20Cent wrote: »

How about a bit of leadership.
Say ministers take a big cut, cut a load of TD expenses, vouchered only.
Get rid of some quangos, jail a few bankers.
Then come back to the PS with a pay cut, at least they would have a leg to stand on then.

absolutely agree, tds should be pay cut as well, and quangos should be part of their job....

as to jailing bankers, unless there where are specific laws broken, not sure u can... much as i want to... it would be not right

Jeboa Safari · 18-10-2010 9:30pm

Cut the pensions by at least 10%.
Cut the dole by ~10% each year after 3 years.
Slash the overseas aid budget.
Cut or tax perks outside the basic salary of public sector workers, like travel allowance or on-call rates.
Legalise soft drugs.
Get rid of the tourist tax and instead try and encourage people to come here.
Allowing Assisted Suicide for the terminally ill would probably save some funds.
Cut child benefit for any household earning over a certain limit, say 75,000. Maybe higher depending on the ammount of children.

Whoever suggested increasing fuel tax, thats a terrible idea.

robtri · 18-10-2010 9:40pm

Jeboa Safari wrote: »

Whoever suggested increasing fuel tax, thats a terrible idea.

why a bad idea????

Jeboa Safari · 18-10-2010 9:46pm

robtri wrote: »

why a bad idea????

Because so many things are dependent on fuel. People have to spend a larger proportion of their incomes on it instead of other things, and other things like the cost of food will rise because it'll cost more to produce and deliver it. Also cost more to run a business. And we've already had a carbon tax.

WalterMitty · 18-10-2010 10:02pm

pedigree wrote: »

Hi,
How about the intruduction of a new tax at the rate of 90% for pension benefits in excess of €75,000.00 per annum.
Regards
Pedigree

anyone on such a large pension could easily emmigrate.

neilster · 18-10-2010 11:22pm

robtri wrote: »

Yes i work in th private sector, and like a lot of other employees, I have already taken a 22% pay cut, and i am willing still to accept a further increase in tax take....

20% is a lot to swallow but much prefer it to being on the dole....

and yes I prescribe a 30% social welfare cut...
in our current state of affairs social welfare should just cover the cost of living, end iff

Funny how the Private sector guys always mentioned a massive 22% cut but then the Survey companies find that there arent cuts in over 50 % of companies whilst Public Sector workers are the only ones that can verify a cut

remember i am on the average industrial wage and have taken a 10% cut

if you want my opinion ...a secondary teacher shouldnt be on 50k ...national teacher ....60k (pretyy near to it) ... a guard 60k....doctors ...physios ....local authority engineers 45k on entry ...exec engineer 55k ...area engineer at 75k and senior engineer 85k at 12th point...dont get me started on university lecturers...ambulance drivers ...fire service so you see us guys arent creaming it and are doing the work ...i know local authority engineers and they delegate so much ..no decisions are ever taken

flat percentage cuts like 20% arent warranted ...arent fair...dont achieve that much saving ...hit the professional areas ...the savings can be made there

i know there are some cool private sector people here who can see things in the round but some of this is just fascist ...treating PS like the untouchables ...they put up with lower salaries in boom years whilst the Private Sector brethren mocked them for being unambitious

Now that things are so tight ...people attack the people with the guarantee....and i think that is the sole reason for some peoples vitriol on this subject

20Cent · 18-10-2010 11:28pm

robtri wrote: »

absolutely agree, tds should be pay cut as well, and quangos should be part of their job....

as to jailing bankers, unless there where are specific laws broken, not sure u can... much as i want to... it would be not right

Its pretty clear that some laws have been broken.
Share price and balance sheet fixing for a start. Hiding loses from shareholders and regulators. Don't see why this seems so hard to prove.

neilster · 18-10-2010 11:43pm

agree 20 cent ...the law on endangering a banks health is very hard to prove so BOI...AIB and even Fingers may be in the clear as they were just responding to shareholders prompting to build loanbooks .....increase profits and market share but the Anglo guys ...there all sorts of carry-on

i think that will be proven

i have it on good authority that a certain bank who are in the Bed & Breakfast market on the other side on transaction ....people still in bank at high level ok'd the B&B are still at the bank

robtri · 19-10-2010 8:12am

20Cent wrote: »

Its pretty clear that some laws have been broken.
Share price and balance sheet fixing for a start. Hiding loses from shareholders and regulators. Don't see why this seems so hard to prove.

it is very hard to proove, and which laws are you referring too??

robtri · 19-10-2010 8:16am

Jeboa Safari wrote: »

Because so many things are dependent on fuel. People have to spend a larger proportion of their incomes on it instead of other things, and other things like the cost of food will rise because it'll cost more to produce and deliver it. Also cost more to run a business. And we've already had a carbon tax.

well if it was my idea you where looking at, it wouldnt, raising fuel cost and removing road tax at same time...
I would also ad a provision for commercial registered trucks and vans that companies can reclaim that money from their company taxes.
should not effect trade costs and delivery costs

robtri · 19-10-2010 8:25am

neilster wrote: »

Funny how the Private sector guys always mentioned a massive 22% cut but then the Survey companies find that there arent cuts in over 50 % of companies whilst Public Sector workers are the only ones that can verify a cut

remember i am on the average industrial wage and have taken a 10% cut

is that what the union keeps telling you.....

i assume you can show these surveys???

neilster wrote: »

flat percentage cuts like 20% arent warranted ...arent fair...dont achieve that much saving ...hit the professional areas ...the savings can be made there

i know there are some cool private sector people here who can see things in the round but some of this is just fascist ...treating PS like the untouchables ...they put up with lower salaries in boom years whilst the Private Sector brethren mocked them for being unambitious

Now that things are so tight ...people attack the people with the guarantee....and i think that is the sole reason for some peoples vitriol on this subject

it is not a matter of attacking people with the gaurantee..
it is a simple business matter... we as a country can not afford to pay you that much simple...
if we do continue to pay you that much the consequences long term for the contry will be extended, with the cost of this recession being extended.

I havent got the official figures to hand, but what is the total pay for PS workers per annum???
15billion?????

if it is 15billion, a 20% cut would be 3 billion.... Yeah not much money saved there

johnboy_123 · 19-10-2010 10:03am

neilster wrote: »

Funny how the Private sector guys always mentioned a massive 22% cut but then the Survey companies find that there arent cuts in over 50 % of companies whilst Public Sector workers are the only ones that can verify a cut

remember i am on the average industrial wage and have taken a 10% cut

if you want my opinion ...a secondary teacher shouldnt be on 50k ...national teacher ....60k (pretyy near to it) ... a guard 60k....doctors ...physios ....local authority engineers 45k on entry ...exec engineer 55k ...area engineer at 75k and senior engineer 85k at 12th point...dont get me started on university lecturers...ambulance drivers ...fire service so you see us guys arent creaming it and are doing the work ...i know local authority engineers and they delegate so much ..no decisions are ever taken

flat percentage cuts like 20% arent warranted ...arent fair...dont achieve that much saving ...hit the professional areas ...the savings can be made there

i know there are some cool private sector people here who can see things in the round but some of this is just fascist ...treating PS like the untouchables ...they put up with lower salaries in boom years whilst the Private Sector brethren mocked them for being unambitious

Now that things are so tight ...people attack the people with the guarantee....and i think that is the sole reason for some peoples vitriol on this subject

How about 95% of the people on the dole hows that for a vouched 100% cut in wage from people in the private sector???

neilster · 19-10-2010 10:06am

robtri wrote: »

is that what the union keeps telling you.....

i assume you can show these surveys???

it is not a matter of attacking people with the gaurantee..
it is a simple business matter... we as a country can not afford to pay you that much simple...
if we do continue to pay you that much the consequences long term for the contry will be extended, with the cost of this recession being extended.

I havent got the official figures to hand, but what is the total pay for PS workers per annum???
15billion?????

if it is 15billion, a 20% cut would be 3 billion.... Yeah not much money saved there

Robtri i never get to hear about your income or where you might be affected by cuts ...a 22% cut on a high income leaves a pretty high place to be high and mighty ...i have a child a wife and a mortgage and earn 38k which is right on the average industrial wage .....if i hung up my boots and went on the dole with one child my entitlements would be precisely 5k lower ...your solution would be to be cut me under what welfare pays ...even a reduced welfare bill

what about ending reliefs and tax shelters , looking at corporation tax ....extra rates of tax ...taxing wealth on property ....water etc

Cutting wages is all fine and well but if it tanks the economy its a double whammy ....people lose jobs...paye taxes reduce and dole bill increases

your views carry a certain Fine Gael tinge who can go around spouting 8bn cuts knowing full well that the ECB would nver let them do ...the ECB like any good doctor knows that would kill the patient as would varadkars baloney

neilster · 19-10-2010 10:13am

robtri wrote: »

is that what the union keeps telling you.....

i assume you can show these surveys???

it is not a matter of attacking people with the gaurantee..
it is a simple business matter... we as a country can not afford to pay you that much simple...
if we do continue to pay you that much the consequences long term for the contry will be extended, with the cost of this recession being extended.

I havent got the official figures to hand, but what is the total pay for PS workers per annum???
15billion?????

if it is 15billion, a 20% cut would be 3 billion.... Yeah not much money saved there

anyway Robtri it looks like events are overtaking us ..we are hearing through the unions that after yesterdays meetings of the political leaders and the consensus approach that the EU is insisting on that Croke Park will collapse with March being the date ...

get throught the corrective budget for appearances and then throw the agreement out

I am on a low wage in the public sector and this is in my opinion the only way to deal with the high earners

20Cent · 19-10-2010 11:04am

robtri wrote: »

it is very hard to proove, and which laws are you referring too??

Surely taking loans to boost a balance sheet artificially is illegal.
Also buying your own stock through others in order to increase share price.
Hiding losses from shareholders and regulators.

Don't see why its so hard to prove.

Donegalguy2 · 19-10-2010 11:48am

Problems
1 Cant put taxes on VAT or Fuel as we will go north
2 Cant hammer income tax as there is too many that can relocate there tax affairs north (Just try it!!) - If even 3% of higher tax payers do this you are killing yourself.

* Park Agreement is dead - I would cut the following way.

24 - 49,999 would take 10% on that so lets say 45 thousand would get paid 40.5 pay ( I am not going to go that far to work the none 10 % on the first 24 because I would have to do it 3 times lol). If you earned 80k you would lose 10% up to 50K and then 20% on the next 30k.

So lets say you earn 250,000 (Ministers I mean you!!!!!)
10% -> 50 = 45 Additional take (5)
20% -> 100 = 85 addional take (10)
50% -> >100 = 75,000 additional take (75)

So from 250,000 it goes down too 160,000 this is still a good wage (to good for some)

Now in alot of ways the high earners one is just for show but at least someone has to show something!

** Inheritance Tax - DEATH TAX
Ok farmers get ready to hate this one. I would allow each generation to pass 10% (up to 150,000) of there assets on after death that is it!! I include farms, houses etc. Lets stand on our own 2 feet everyone!!!

Rough back of the envelope calculation - this is very rough
Lets say 2 percent of people die every year and we have a combined GNP of 120 billion I am assuming that as these are generally going to be older (more time to accumulate) that it would work out at approx 10% of GNP

So 12billion straight away - 10% = 10.8 we are sorted.

Every year we could use that money to help all society and not an elite people from D4 that feel entitled and do not even have to work. This is the elephant in the room and we will always have this problem until this is sorted.

Come the revolution this is going to be the greatest upheavel in the history of humanity.

This one is a long shot but the question has to be why? It is always the big questions after the case you say why the hell didnt they do that years ago!!!!!

*** No more tax incentives for anything - Why should i be taxed to incentive you? No one should be taxed one penny then is absolutely required to make sure everyone is cool. Shelter, Schooling, healthy and warm. Then the rest is up to you.

Points 2 and 3 would be all that is required to make the whole world fairer but point 1 would do for now just to make me feel happier!!

Also just in general terms I think we need 5 elections were you can only stand in one election (5 year terms maximum) at a time like the greeks to freshen it up. These political dynasties are making our politicians talk and look like inbred cretins.

Budget 2011 ideas

Comments