Budget 2011 ideas

WalterMitty

neilster wrote: »

We are talking about this morning , what would happen with the Croke Park agreement ?

Why are you talking about firing people ? if there is too many fair enough but anyone honestly suggesting that there is too many nurses, gardai or teachers

Its the cost of them not the numbers...i am not speculating about this ...i am in a local authority , we are getting the CP agreemnt getting implemented over November we lost 30 staff last year and 40 are going before end of 2011 with retirement, thats 11% drop in payroll costs , premium payments are being taken out , lower grades are being put in to do the work of grades higher ... thats more costs

but better example is a hospital as there is much more fat there

take a General Hospital , roughly 70% of cost is payroll and roughly 35% of that 70% is premium allowances like overtime, oncall etc, thats 25% of the total cost of the hospital and by the end of the year , the hospital will call all the time they work as a 39 hr week no matter (so no premium)when it is worked and extra time will be worked at the normal rate

if you dont think it is true , we are getting told what will happen by 1/11/2011 in meetings around the CP agreement

so it doesnt take a genius to see how much cost you can take out , €20bn that is spent on health and €14bn is payroll , €4.9bn is premium allowances and not to mention how redeployment (lower grades doing work) and retirement can lower costs

Walter Mitty , we effectively tore up our contracts under this deal and if a garda loses 14% in wage cuts and then agrees to wholesale changes , a deal is a deal

if you then make an agreement and then enforce changes and then go back for more cuts , the guards, teachers nurses will just walk off the job ...simple as that ...and the government knows it ....with a bank bailout in the background they will walk away

its not in our govenments hands really anymore. I dont see anywhere near enough savings being generated by CP agreementt and i think the Euro rescue fund wll be needed and then the europeans will call the shots.
I agree the prob isnt too many in public sector its the one sthat are there are too highly paid by private and global public sector standards and more importantly by our ability to pay them. The europeans wont stand for the public servants being amongst best paid in europe while being bailed out by eurozone.

neilster

WalterMitty wrote: »

its not in our govenments hands really anymore. I dont see anywhere near enough savings being generated by CP agreementt and i think the Euro rescue fund wll be needed and then the europeans will call the shots.
I agree the prob isnt too many in public sector its the one sthat are there are too highly paid by private and global public sector standards and more importantly by our ability to pay them. The europeans wont stand for the public servants being amongst best paid in europe while being bailed out by eurozone.

whilst i agree with an awful lot of what you say , i think the EU and lets face it Germany have looked at our spending in nearly every area ....certainly the irish economy is all things to all men..... and also our lack of wealth derived taxes or property water charges etc and have decided we can save ourselves and thats what they will make us do ...

In Greece the public doesnt pay taxes so the same scope wasnt there , they needed a bailout cos it had gone too far ,with us they will cut to the bone and as i said in my CP posts there are savings to be made

Immediate savings - Premium Payments ...a 10% saving here is €1.4 bn in HSE alone but considering overtime and extra payments are €5bn i would say the aim would be to cut these close to nothing, these are multi-annual savings and are huge

Retirements - I would say 5% in 2010 and 2011 (that would be around our local figure) ..thats 1 billion euro .....this is a one off

Redployments - Placing people with lower grades into vacated posts with higher grade ...say Grade 4 into 6 & 7 , this is a 20k saving on Grade 6 and 30k on 7 .....across three years could be €1bn ....

Incentivised Redundacy - Labour have talked about this and i would say after the presnt rerirement schemes end in 2011 they would bring this forward ...these would be highly subscribed ...


these are big savings albeit over a couple of years but they are are real

greenie

I can just imagine the amount of money that could be saved by simply looking into each SW case..yes it would take time but it would be worth it. Especially as previous posters have mentioned, the long term SW claimers. People claiming long term illness benefit should be thoroughly investigated too. I guess slashing the funds is quicker and easier but I don't think it's fair on hard working people who have lost their jobs and are struggling...some of you seem to think 196 (?) is more than enough but I see people with high mortgages ( how much does sw help with on a fixed mortgage of around 1500 a month?), most with babies or young kids and they do struggle. So while a 30% cut might be appropriate for young Johnny, living at home & partying most nights, I don't think it is for the average family man.
And also...how do I put this. Ok say I have two kids and I decide to go to another country for work, and I do get work, but not for long..soon I'm jobless. Should I be allowed to go on the dole in that country? Could I avail of countless benefits, help with rent etc? And should I get money for my kids to go to school & for their school books, clothes etc?
Also maybe passports should be checked regularly? Some people might feel the need to take a flight in and out of Ireland once a week which wouldn't be right, would it?
These are just a couple of examples which haven't yet been mentioned in this thread. (incase I'm bashed for blaming the bad economy on certain cases!)
The Uk might have the right idea with their plans.

Wibbs

Donegalguy2 wrote: »

If you have had a good life then you should be more then happy to give it back to the people that gave you it in the first in the first place. Unless as so many you previously inheritated it anyway! why should one person benefit over the many more? a powerful trait of jewish men is that each one has to leave more in there will then they received.

Great in theory, but you would also engender the idea of "what's the point in securing a future for my family and children if when I peg it the state takes the lot". That's no incentive. I've seen this with friends of mine with children. The ones taking the risks and creating wealth and running companies. They do it as much for their children. I had this conversation with one of them a few months back and his take was that if they brought this in he would leave this country and move his business elsewhere(which in his case he could do), rather than his life's work ending up in the coffers of a political system that has shown little cop on or forward planning for many a year. The Jewish tradition you mention is a good one, but it's predicated on the fact that their families finances go up, not get knocked back to near zero every generation.

could you imagine the greatness of the people we could potentially create if we all started with nothing with the same attitude? we are obviously doing something terribly wrong? when was the last time we even had a competent man never mind great?

We have many many competent men and women out there. Just too few in politics. The ratio of "great" to the size of our population has always been very high, not unlike the Jews you mention.

mistermouse wrote: »

Reform Taxation for small Business and Self Employed.

You are not entitled to anything, nothing in terms of future Dole etc if you take the chance setting up yourself. Nor are you entitled to tax credits, so you are Taxed on all profit/wages in your start up years even if it comes in below the tax net.

There is no incentive for people to set up as a sole trader / self employed and your are screwed if it goes wrong as you cannot go onto the dole. Best going on the dole in the first place.

I agree 100% I saw that even in the boom years where people stayed in regular employment rather than risk their future setting up on their own. We need to incentivise that kind of thing as it's those individuals that help create new jobs and revenue. OK we need to make cuts and streamline a lot of areas and we need to pay back the money, but we also need to be aware of generating money in the medium to long term or we will be truly screwed.

Bottle_of_Smoke

dan_d wrote: »

Just...no. For a hundred different reasons.

I He will never be able to run a transatlantic service because he'd actually have to allow a bigger baggage allowance,

Not for everyone. If I was going to new york for a week I'd happily fit all the luggage I need into a bag the size ryanair let you bring on. There's enough people like me doing that. His model was to have cheap seats on the same flight as extortianate business class seats.

and something to eat for free- you can't sit people on a plane for 6 hrs min., and not give them a thing to eat.

Why not exactly? if you can afford to cross the atlantic you can afford a sandwich and a coffee.

He wouldn't be able to stomach the slower turnarounds in the USA - can't have pilots fly for 6 hours, then turn around 40 mins later and fly back, he'd have to put his staff up in a hotel for the night, which he'd hate.

I'm sure he'd find a way to manage it and still make money.

tails_naf

I had an idea today -

Other countries have niche things that bring in lotsa money, like the swiss banks, etc.

So Ireland could do the same, by becoming an online shopping hub.
A new VAT rate of 10% for online purchases.

Would bring a heck of a lot of businesses to Ireland not to mention revenue from all over the EU flowing through our economy, and the govt having 10% off it all.

It would be the lowest VAT rate in the EU (I think), would allow VAT to stay as it is for shops, but bring in a lot of outside business that we would not otherwise have.

It's just the start of an Idea..but maybe it would work? Worked for the North when they dropped the VAT rate...but imagine having the whole EU available. It would realllly annoy the lads in france and germany though...

mgmt

My ideas for the budget:

1. Stop Foreign Aid payments -- €671m in savings
2. Cut the military by 50%, no overseas missions
3. Privatise the health service, similar to FGs plan
4. Eliminate the Seanad
5. Cut the Dail by a third
6. Eliminate the PSO levy on electricity bills, make it cheaper to start up a business
7. Cut the minimum wage to under €5, make it easier for people to get hired
8. Sell off Aer Lingus, ESB, Bord Gais, CIE
9. Privatise Water Supplies
10. Ruthlessly cut quangos, like the film censor etc.
11. Get rid of TV licence fee
12. Cut public sector wages
13. Cut the dole (if you refuse a job, you lose all benefits)
14. Get rid of the carbon taxes

Mike O' Brien

changes wrote: »

1. Transfer staff from overstaffed government depts to a new and ruthless social welfare fraud dept that comes under the overall control of the Gardai.

2. Tax rise on all alcohol sold in of licences and supermarkets.

3. Major cut in politicians income and expenses as an important gesture.

4. Cut child benefit completely for those earning more than 100K

5. Charge all Medical Card holders €5 per doctor visit

6. 1 cent on text messages

7. 3rd rate of tax on earnings in excess of 50K

8. Cut dole for all by 5%

9. Cut OAP by 5%

Could not agree more with every single one of the above.

namenotavailablE

Slightly straying off topic with this post but if anyone wants to have a go at playing 'Minister for Hardship' and has access to Excel 2007 [unfortunately it won't work in any other version of Excel, even Excel 2010] you might be interested in downloading my 'Fantasy Budget 2011' spreadsheet calculator.

It allows you to tweak/ add PAYE rates, change tax credits, abolish the various PRSI/Health/Income levies and replace them with a new universal social charge and also change the method of granting tax relief for pension contributions. Once your changes are saved, you can then see how much poorer you'll be by filling in your details into the built-in net pay calculator.

Any constructive feedback / criticism / queries re use is welcome!

dasa29

mgmt wrote: »

My ideas for the budget:

1. Cut the military by 50%, no overseas missions

Mgmt while i agree with some of your points i don't know where you are going with this. I as far as i know the defence budget is only 1 bn in total and is split in the following ways. The split is 65% wages/pensions and 35% everything else (eg fuel, food, ammo).

eh2010

How about all the politicans get a pay cut to make it in line with similar size countries. And also have less politicans

Stato x

Legalize and tax Cannabis



Head shops had a massive turnover.
Cant do more harm than the alcohol industry plus could boost tourism.

atomohawk

Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do to your Country.
Vote
Fee na Fall

Soldiers of DENsity

koHd

Get rid of money altogether.

I haven't got past that bit yet.

I will come back to you when I have.

Demonique

Nody wrote: »

I'd like to see a drop of starting at 1 year for social wellfare and dole (in all it's form). It should be starting at say 15% reduction after 1 year, 25% at start of year 3 and 40% at year 4 and 50% at year 5. These deductions should apply to ALL benefits (i.e. child benefits, rent relief etc.) that the receipent recieves. Any one who has not provided a full two years of PRSI in the last four years starts out on year 3 benefits %.

What about those who are cannot work due to illness? Are you proposing their welfare be cut too?

Demonique

Stabshauptmann wrote: »

You got cut, so you want other people to get cut to, just to suffer?

I do at any rate, why should some people get cut and not others?

pablodomingo

Defence Forces....cut back...are you for real? we're down to minimum numbers already. consider this...when we were on UN Missions we were bringing in Millions to the government for UN Missions. What they need to do is increase our numbers again to at least 10,000 and let us get back out there to the hotspots to earn some cash for this country and carry on with improving our reputation worldwide.
How quickly people forget....lives have been given for this country

UCC Philosoph

Should Third level fees be introduced?

We have heard alot form the "nay camp" among students in recent weeks but perhaps it is time we heard from the rest of the student body. On Monday November 22nd at 19.30 in Kane G19, UCC Main Campus the UCC Philosoph are hosting a fees debate. There are guest speakers on either side of the motion That This House Would Reintroduce College Fees and then there will be an open floor in which the audience can make submissions. It is free of charge and open to the public. We need more debates like this. The media show us too much of people in power or of wealth against the little man, we never hear from the little man that actually supports the government.....and they are out there....that is what this debate will show. It is time we heard from both sides on the ground to enable us all to come to our own decisions unbiased by the media portrayal.

SC024

1. Close down TG4 immediatly- 33.6million state subsidy for a language thats dead in the water and no use to anyone?

2. Stop teaching irish in schools teach french or german instead.

3. Tds Salary down to 60K & 70K for minister. Expenses, State cars/garda driver & mileage allowance gone. Drive your own car like everybody else. Don't like it?Tough **** theres 450000 people on the dole that'd be glad of it

4. Close the senate, cut the number of tds to 60

5. Cut corparation tax in half & abolish employers PRSI

6. make it much cheaper to get products out of the country. Force ESB board Gas to cut their rates. Cut excise duty on bunker fuel for ships

6. Get rid of mary Mcaleese, What does she do anyway? Id love to see her airmiles account

7. Mileage allowance across the public sector goes.

8. Give everyone in the country a once payment of €500.00 on condition they provide reciepts proving they spent in irish shops. If not take it back

9 cut public sector numbers by 100000

10. Dole cut in half - It can not be a career choice

11. Child benifit by 30% It can not be a career choice

12. Disband the army, close them down sell off whatever assets they have. Keep the navy for drug searches etc. The airforce? ok the fly the garda choppers but if it came to it would they be able to shoot down a weather baloon?


That should get us off to a good start

caddytech

Efficiency is key - If we cut the waste instead of the taxes - we can turn things around very quickly.
In the last week, we have learned that there is no limitless budget to keep the services as we want in the country. But.....If we work hard both in the Private and the Public sector, the country will get more value for its investment. ie, the Irish economy invests in us - its workers.

So, if you are in a position to make a contributin thru work - think - how can I work more efficiently.

If you are unfortunate not to have a job, but still have your health, think what can I do as a volunteer, that can make differenec, ie help out St Vincent De Paul etc.

I summary - lets look to ourselves, rather than our Government to make the difference - we have all the ability to do so, (w/o being too greedy)

Nasty_Girl

^

I would love to see this happen more.
For those who can work, work harder and give more and for those who not in employment to give to their communities without being "forced" to.

Mental well being and community spirit are very important right now.

cosanostra

Reduce all earnings across the board regardless of who or what that means increasing tax for those working and reduce welfare payments! together with this decrease vat this would need to be done on regular intervals to bring it down to a competitve wage structure = cost of living it is the only fair way to implement cuts.

in addition to this sell off loss making state businesses to the highest bidder , imalgimate state bodies (hse we only need one) abolish fas use social welfare offices for the job seekers division reform training division. scrap udaras tg4 (cost a fortune returns little)

We also need something to make ireland unique in regards to tourism we have great scenery but lousy weather nothing can be done about that so we need another tourism niche remember we wont be able to speculate to get returns any more so we need simple ideas.

SC024

cosanostra wrote: »

Reduce all earnings across the board regardless of who or what that means increasing tax for those working and reduce welfare payments! together with this decrease vat this would need to be done on regular intervals to bring it down to a competitve wage structure = cost of living it is the only fair way to implement cuts.

in addition to this sell off loss making state businesses to the highest bidder , imalgimate state bodies (hse we only need one) abolish fas use social welfare offices for the job seekers division reform training division. scrap udaras tg4 (cost a fortune returns little)

We also need something to make ireland unique in regards to tourism we have great scenery but lousy weather nothing can be done about that so we need another tourism niche remember we wont be able to speculate to get returns any more so we need simple ideas.

Some interesting ideas definitly but what would you do with everyone on holidays or "employed" in Fas

fatalll

changes wrote: »

1. Transfer staff from overstaffed government depts to a new and ruthless social welfare fraud dept that comes under the overall control of the Gardai.

2. Tax rise on all alcohol sold in of licences and supermarkets.

3. Major cut in politicians income and expenses as an important gesture.

4. Cut child benefit completely for those earning more than 100K

5. Charge all Medical Card holders €5 per doctor visit

6. 1 cent on text messages

7. 3rd rate of tax on earnings in excess of 50K

8. Cut dole for all by 5%

9. Cut OAP by 5%

Agree with all except
OAP cut by 30% back to 2006 figures

Cut the amount of Politicians as well as how much they earn

Cut their expenses, why should they get paid to travel to work? We all travel to work, I NEVER understood that

Guards should not be getting a living away from home allowance either(think its about 3,500)

Cut all public servants pay by about 7%. already taken about 20%

Cut Dole back to 2005 levels for anyone on it more than 3 years as it has always been to high in this country(need an incentive to work)

Cut the rent allowance by 50%

Get rid of half the Quangos

Offer voluntary retirment to all public sector in a bid to cut numbers and/or
Fire people who do not abide by their T and C's


ABOVE all we have to make the shops and services reduce their prices...cos they are still crazy..still in the what was it called again, Cat economy or something:rolleyes:....

Thanks for Reading

PomBear

This probably won't happen now but my idea
Give tax relief on the corp. tax for Industry that hire an extensive amount of people living in Ireland, buy raw materials in Ireland and set up business relationships and contracts in Ireland. This would see more money flowing in the Irish market, more jobs created, a bit of stimulus in the market and getting the money flowing is what Ireland needs right now.

ArmaniJeanss

cosanostra wrote: »

We also need something to make ireland unique in regards to tourism we have great scenery but lousy weather nothing can be done about that so we need another tourism niche remember we wont be able to speculate to get returns any more so we need simple ideas.

Its not really a Budget idea as such (it would need a seperate bit of legislation) but we should backtrack on the recent changes in the alcohol licensing laws.

Allow pubs/clubs to open much later, and allow special promotions and happy hours again.

The stag party/hen party market segment from the UK was hugely lucrative and has been lost in the last few years. Forcing people to leave a comfortable pub at 2am, not allowing that same pub to serve them two for one or 3 for a tenner drinks on Saturday afternoons is madness.

SC024

Demonique wrote: »

What about those who are cannot work due to illness? Are you proposing their welfare be cut too?

People that are genuinly ill, No we'll leave them alone what about the 30% with temporary illness that disappear after they leave the doctors surgery and/or interview room?

T runner

Cutting all tax loopholes etc where the very richest people in teh country de facto pay the smallest percentage of tax.

optocynic

T runner wrote: »

Cutting all tax loopholes etc where the very richest people in teh country de facto pay the smallest percentage of tax.

Do you have examples/numbers on this?
What qualifies a person as rich?
How much tax should a person pay?

T runner

optocynic wrote: »

Do you have examples/numbers on this?
What qualifies a person as rich?
How much tax should a person pay?

As a lot of these people practice tax avoidance it is difficult to put a number on it. I will see what i can do however.

We would be talking about primarily the top 500 earners in the country but we are talking about closing tax "avoidance" loopholes which benefift and are designed for predominanrly the very wealthy.

The perception that these people should not be touched as they are vital to the countries economy has shiown itself to be a dangerous lie.

An example might be the Cinderella clause which states that you are not resident in Ireland if you are not here at 12 midnight every day. This clause has been abused by the elite class in this country who have defrauded ordinary citizens of billions of euro. Not that thry take to the air every evening: nobody is checked, it just gives them a box to tick to avoid paying tax in this country.

We all have to contribute, even our elite overlords.