Advice on Dog problem

riddleyscott

Hi,

We have just re-homed a Pomeranian, very cute dog he has been with us two months now. When have treated him like one of the family from day one, I am starting to get worried about his behavior around the house.
He attacks toilets when you pull down the lid the same when you go to the rubbish bins. He tries to bite the kids feet when they are on the trampoline.
He has biten my wife when she went to open the window in our kitchen, he has biten me when I was at the dishwasher when I moved him away, he has biten my nephew when he was playing ball with him, anybody who walks past the house he barks at, when he is out for a walk anybody who comes to talk to us he is barking at them quite aggressively.
When my kids friends come to the door he gets very aggressive and when we have vistors he barks at them and if they get up out of there chair he is growling at them.
When I get up out of my seat in the evening time he growles at me and tries to bite my ankels,
I have two young kids and I am starting to think about bring him back to the pound as I am afraid of him around the kids or any body coming into the house.

cocker5

ok.. dont be too hasty...

What age is your dog??

He needs socialisation classes as a must... there are lots of training techniques that you can try out....

Tell us more about the dogs background??

riddleyscott

The dog is about 8 months to a year old, we have no information on the dogs background.
Any help would be apprecated as my daughter is quite attached to the dog.

andreac

riddleyscott wrote: »

The dog is about 8 months to a year old, we have no information on the dogs background.
Any help would be apprecated as my daughter is quite attached to the dog.

I replied where you posted on the other thread, please seek advice from a dog trainer and attend some classes in your area. This dog needs professional help and training.

arybvtcw0eolkf

To be honest about it.. I'd get rid of the thing!.

Not a chance in hell I'd take the risk of it biting the family.

There are lots of great family dogs out there looking for rehoming, and a pom is always gonna get a home anyway.

If this was a dog I'd bonded with and had developed this aggression over time I'd work with professionals to help it readjust.. In this instance, I wouldn't bother.

cocker5

Rafael Full Vengeance wrote: »

To be honest about it.. I'd get rid of the thing!.

Not a chance in hell I'd take the risk of it biting the family.

There are lots of great family dogs out there looking for rehoming, and a pom is always gonna get a home anyway.

If this was a dog I'd bonded with and had developed this aggression over time I'd work with professionals to help it readjust.. In this instance, I wouldn't bother.

crazy response :mad::mad: ....typical.... the pup is 8 months old for godsake all its needs is some training!

here's some info that may help!

Living with a dog can be beneficial to children. Dogs can enhance children’s self-esteem, teach them responsibility and help them to learn empathy. However, children and dogs may not always automatically start off with a wonderful relationship. Parents must be willing to teach the dog and the child acceptable limits of behaviour in order to make their interactions pleasant and safe.

Selecting a Dog

What age is best? Many people have a warm and fuzzy image of a puppy and a child growing up together. If you have a young child and are thinking of adopting a puppy (less than 1 year old), there are a few things you need to consider.

• Time and energy: Puppies require a lot of time, patience, training and supervision. They also require socialisation in order to become well-adjusted adult dogs. This means they need to be taken places and exposed to new things and new people. If you have a young child who already requires a lot of care and time, you should ask yourself if you will you have enough time to care for a puppy as well.

• Safety: Puppies, because they’re babies, are fragile creatures. A puppy may become frightened, or even injured, by a well-meaning, curious child who wants to constantly pick him up, hug him or explore his body by pulling on his tail or ears.

• Rough play: Puppies have sharp teeth and claws with which they may inadvertently injure a small child. Puppies also tend to jump up on small children and knock them down. All interactions between your child and puppy will need to be closely supervised in order to minimize the chances of injuries.

• Advantages of getting an adult dog: Adult dogs require less time and attention once they’ve adjusted to your family and household routine, although you’ll still need to spend time helping your new dog with the transition to his new home. You can better gauge how hardy and tolerant an adult dog will be of a child’s enthusiasm and you can work with your local animal shelter to adopt a dog that has previously lived with children.

As a general rule, if your child is under 6 years old, it’s best to adopt a dog that’s over 2 years old. Although puppies can be a lot of fun, and it’s exciting and rewarding to help them grow into wonderful companions, they do require significantly more time to train and supervise than an adult dog.

Who will care for the dog?

It’s unrealistic to expect a child, regardless of age, to have sole responsibility of caring for a dog. Dogs need basic things like food, water and shelter, but they also need to be played with, exercised and trained on a consistent basis. Teaching a dog the rules of the house and helping him become a good companion is too overwhelming for a young child. While responsible teenagers may be up to the task, they may not be willing to spend an adequate amount of time with the dog, as their desire to be with their friends usually takes over at this age. If you’re adopting a dog “for the kids,” you must be prepared and willing to be the dog’s primary caretaker.

Starting Off Right

Below are some guidelines to help you start off on the right foot. Remember, children should never be left alone with a dog or puppy without adult supervision.

Holding:
• It's safest for both your child and puppy if your child is sitting down whenever he wants to hold the puppy. Puppies are squirmy and wiggly and may easily fall out of a young child's arms and be injured. If held insecurely, a puppy may become frightened and snap or nip in response.

• Have your child offer the puppy a toy to chew while being petted. When puppies are teething, they tend to chew on everything, including hands and arms, so having a chew toy handy will divert the puppy’s teeth away from your child. An added benefit is that the puppy will come to associate pleasant consequences (getting a treat) with being held by your child.

• For larger dogs, have your child sit in your lap and let the dog approach both of you. This way you can control your child and not allow him to get carried away with pats that are too rough. You are also there to teach your new dog to treat your child gently.

Petting and giving affection: Children often want to hug dogs around the neck. Your dog may view this as a threatening gesture, rather than an affectionate one, and may react with a growl, snap or bite. You should teach your child to pet your dog from underneath the dog’s chin, rather than hugging him or reaching over his head. You should also teach your child to avoid staring at, or looking directly into, your dog’s eyes.

Giving Treats: Some children can become fearful when a dog tries to take a treat from their hand. This may cause them to jerk their hand away at the last second. The dog may then jump up or lunge to get the treat, which may result in the child being knocked down. Have your child place the treat in an open palm, rather than holding it in his fingers. You may want to place a hand underneath your child's hand to help guide him.

Supervising Play: Children run with quick, jerky movements and have high-pitched voices. These actions are highly stimulating to a dog. Consequently, your dog may respond by chasing or jumping up on your child. Encourage your child to play quietly around the new dog until both become more comfortable with each other. Your dog also needs to learn which behaviours are appropriate and which are not. Taking an obedience class together is a good way to teach your dog to respond to commands. Punishing your dog for inappropriate behaviour will not help. If he learns that being around children always results in “bad things” happening to him, he may become defensive in their presence.

Possessions: Your dog won’t know the difference between his toys and your child’s toys until you teach him.

• Your child must take responsibility for keeping his playthings out of your dog’s reach.

• If, and only if, you catch your dog chewing on something he shouldn't, interrupt the behaviour with a loud noise, then give him an acceptable chew toy and praise him lavishly when he takes the toy in his mouth.

• Don't give your dog objects to play with that could cause confusion, such as old socks, old shoes or old children's toys that closely resemble items that are off limits. He can't tell the difference!

• Dogs can be possessive about their food, toys and space. Although it’s normal for a dog to growl or snap to protect these items, it’s not acceptable. At the same time, children need to learn to respect their dog as a living creature who is not to be teased or purposefully hurt and who needs time to himself.

How can I stop play biting?

Provided the dog is receiving adequate play, attention and exercise, you can turn your training to bite inhibition. One of the things that puppies need to learn is how much pressure from their jaws causes pain. Without this feedback, a puppy does not learn to inhibit the force of its bite. Because all dogs can and will bite at some time, this lesson is vital for human safety.

How is this lesson taught?

When puppies play with each other, if one puppy bites another too hard, the bitten puppy will yelp, and may also stop playing and leave. This sends the message to the puppy that its bites were too hard and if it wishes to continue to play, it needs to be gentle. However, people often do not send this message to their puppy. In the beginning, they might allow the puppy to chew and bite on them without reprimands and the puppy assumes that the behaviour is acceptable. Children appear to be most vulnerable because their attempts at stopping the biting may not be properly timed or sufficiently abrupt to stop the puppy from biting. In fact a child’s response is often seen by the puppy as an invitation to increase its level of chase and play. Adult supervision or a head halter for training (discussed below) should help to insure more immediate success.

The message people should send is that mouthing and chewing on hands is painful. All family members must consistently follow the rules for the puppy to understand and learn what is considered desirable behaviour and what is not. However, regardless of the technique, you cannot expect the play biting to cease until you first insure that you are giving regular and sufficient opportunities for play at times when the puppy is not play biting. If the puppy begins to play bite or chew and tug on clothing, then ignoring the puppy or walking away may be sufficient. If all family members are consistent in their responses, the puppy should quickly learn that play biting actually leads to inattention rather than play. In fact, all forms of play and attention soliciting behaviour should be ignored, as these can quickly escalate into more intense biting. You should be the one to schedule and initiate play sessions and not your puppy. If you teach your puppy to sit or lie quietly before each play session, you should soon have your puppy trained that these behaviours, and not play biting, will be rewarded with a play session.

If ignoring the puppy or saying “off” and walking away does not stop the biting, then you will need to work on discouraging the behaviour. Begin by teaching each family member to emit a sharp ‘yip’ or ‘ouch’ as soon as biting begins so that the puppy backs off. Cease all play and attention immediately. This sends the message to the puppy that the bites are painful and that biting will cause play to be terminated. Another option is to use a sharp ‘off’ command while briefly pushing forward with the hand to back the puppy away (no hitting). Alternately, a sharp ‘off’ and quickly backing away can be effective. Most important is that the play should cease. The command ‘off’ followed by the immediate removal of play can act as a form of punishment with the word ‘off’ soon teaching the dog that if it continues to bite, play will be withdrawn. This training usually works for those family members that are a little more forceful and assertive, and who are immediate and consistent in their training. If the puppy persists, chases or immediately repeats the behaviour, closing a door and walking out of the room can help to teach the puppy that nipping leads to immediate inattention.

What if yelping does not help?

Other techniques are often suggested for play biting. Some involve harsh discipline, like slapping the puppy under the chin or forcefully holding the mouth closed. Remember, pain can cause aggression and cause the puppy to become anxious, fearful or perhaps more excited. These techniques also require that you grab an excited puppy; not an easy thing to do! Some puppies may even misinterpret the owner’s attempts at punishment as rough play, which in turn might lead to an increase in the behaviour. Physical methods are therefore not recommended. Owners, who cannot inhibit the puppy with a yelp, could consider a shaker can, water or air spray, noise alarm, or ultrasonic device, as soon as the biting becomes excessive. The loud noise or spray is used to startle the puppy, who will likely back up and stop biting. When that happens the puppy should immediately be praised and gentle play and interactions resumed.

The use of a head halter with a remote leash attached allows the puppy to play and chew, but a quick pull on the leash can immediately and successfully close the mouth and stop biting without any physical force. By simultaneously saying "no biting", most puppies will quickly learn the meaning of the command. As soon as the puppy stops and calms down, the owner can allow play to resume, as long as biting does not begin again. This is one of the quickest and most effective approaches to stop the biting and get immediate control of the muzzle and mouth, and is useful for owners that are not gaining sufficient verbal control.

Remember that play biting is a component of play behaviour in puppies. Play is a form of social interaction. Realise that your puppy is trying to play with you even though the behaviour is rough. To ensure that you are in control, be certain that each play session is initiated by you and not the puppy, and that you can end each session whenever you choose. One effective strategy when the play gets too rough is to immediately end the play session and leave. Social withdrawal can be a very powerful tool. Leave the puppy alone long enough to calm down. If upon your return the wild playing begins again, leave again. Although it is tempting to pick the puppy up and take it out of the room, this interaction may be interpreted by your puppy as additional play and the biting may continue as you carry the puppy to a confinement location. Keep track of which types of play seem to get the puppy too excited and these should be avoided to help prevent biting behaviour.

Can I play tug-of-war games with my puppy?

Games of tug and pull can be a good way for the puppy to expend energy while playing with family members. In this way the puppy can be given an acceptable outlet for pulling, biting and tugging rather than on the clothing or body parts of people. In addition, the tug of war game provides an opportunity to teach the puppy to give up toys on command. However, tug of war games are only acceptable if they remain under your control, or if play biting and over exuberant behaviour increase. Select a few tug toys for playing this game and be certain that you are the one to start each session. It might be best to keep the toy(s) out of the puppy’s reach until its time to play the game. Throughout the play session, particularly if the puppy gets too excited or begins to grab hands or clothing, have the puppy settle down and give up the toy before allowing play to continue. Food rewards can also be used at the outset to encourage the puppy to stop the give up the toy. At the end of each tug session, teach the puppy to give up the toy and reward with a favoured chew or feeding toy. If successful, this type of play provides you with a means of controlled interactive play, as well as teaching the puppy to give up the toy on command

arybvtcw0eolkf

cocker5 wrote: »

crazy response :mad::mad: ....typical....

Typical of other crazy posts I've made?.

cocker5

Rafael Full Vengeance wrote: »

Typical of other crazy posts I've made?.

typical of the "throw away" attitude some people have towards dogs and ainmals in general in this country..... :eek:

There is a problem.... the OP came on asking for advice... they best you could do is dont bother... get rid of it! ... thats not construstive advice... what i gave was constructive.

ALL dogs need training... thats it....
its that simple.... if you put the time into your dog you will get great rewards. If the OP takes the time to train the dog he will have a friend for life (the dogs life anyway) so too will his kids... dogs are great for kids... providing the learn the rules.. all this takes time! you only get out of dogs what you put in.. same goes for kids...

OP best of luck.... try some of the techniques... remember it takes time... the dog doesnt understand english and nor do we speak dog... so be paitent and CONSISTENT!! Conststency is the key!!

Hope it all works out!

arybvtcw0eolkf

cocker5 wrote: »

typical of the "throw away" attitude some people have towards dogs and ainmals in general in this country..... :eek:

I've never thrown a dog away yet. Re-read what I posted - the pom would likely get rehomed in a more suitable home. The people who gave the dog to the OP obviously didn't evaluate both the dog and the owner/home before parting wit the dog.. There are more suitable dogs for a family environment.

cocker5 wrote: »

There is a problem.... the OP came on asking for advice... they best you could do is dont bother... get rid of it! ... thats not construstive advice... what i gave was constructive.

It was advice, get rid of it.. And your advice, likely cut & pasted from another source.

cocker5 wrote: »

ALL dogs need training... thats it....
its that simple....same goes for kids

Kids are not dogs, kids and problem dogs shouldn't mix - home checks?.

cocker5 wrote: »

OP best of luck....
Hope it all works out!

Goes without saying.

Now calm down and stop throwing around hysterical remarks.

Toulouse

If you read the original post the dog was obtained from the pound hence no compatibility checks or homechecks. If the dog is going then it's going back to the pound and no, just because it is a Pom doesn't mean it will be rehomed.

That's not to say that it's suited to this family but maybe the OP could try to do some work with the dog and spend some time securing a rescue space for the dog instead of sending him back to a place he may not get out of again.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Toulouse wrote: »

If you read the original post the dog was obtained from the pound hence no compatibility checks or homechecks. If the dog is going then it's going back to the pound and no, just because it is a Pom doesn't mean it will be rehomed.

That's not to say that it's suited to this family but maybe the OP could try to do some work with the dog and spend some time securing a rescue space for the dog instead of sending him back to a place he may not get out of again.

If its returned to the pound the pound staff should advise the next owner's in regards to its suitability in the family environment and let the new perspective owner's make a decision based on that information.

cocker5

Rafael Full Vengeance wrote: »

Now calm down and stop throwing around hysterical remarks.

Nobody was making hysterical remarks...

OP was asking for training advice.. you choose to go straight to the chopping board WITHOUT giving the dog a chance... in my view thats pretty hysterical :rolleyes:

wth regard to the advice i gave...at least it was constructive as ive already said and the OP can use the techniques... your advice dont bother get rid of it.... hmmmmm i wonder which one took more effort.

Anyway onto the more important issue....
OP try a trainer this will help you greatly... the dog is only 8 months... his personaly is NOT set in stone, he is still soo young and can be trained with time, consistency and persistence..

arybvtcw0eolkf

Cocker stop trying to force your agenda with stupid emoticon's.. Trying to force a dog to live in an environment where its clearly unhappy is cruel.

OP there are lots of dogs, and breed types out there which will fit into the family environment with minimal training to either the dog, or your children.

oppenheimer1

cocker5 wrote: »

crazy response :mad::mad: ....typical.... the pup is 8 months old for godsake all its needs is some training!

here's some info that may help!

Living with a dog can be beneficial to children. Dogs can enhance children’s self-esteem, teach them responsibility and help them to learn empathy. However, children and dogs may not always automatically start off with a wonderful relationship. Parents must be willing to teach the dog and the child acceptable limits of behaviour in order to make their interactions pleasant and safe.
....

You didn't write that article, credit the source. Anyway this animal has repeatedly attacked members of the OPs family. If it were me the dog would be back at the pound or in the vets to be destroyed.

There are plenty of dogs out there, I wouldn't put up with aggression towards my family or potentially visitors.

Chris_Heilong

ok, first things first, its good that the dog is not barking at you or your family, he accepts you as his pack...but the bad news is he sees himself at the top of the pecking order, hence the bitting when you try to move him away ect.
Poms were bred down from German dogs that were used for herding and as an alarm to the presence of intruders(thats where you will see the barking come in, very hard to stop this Im afraid). They need constant leadership and you need to let him know what he can and cant do, that means a strong NO! when he bites or barks, if he is nice some of the time and bad other times the ignore him when he is bad or isolate him away from the family(a create or big pet carrier would be ideal). If he bites let out a loud sound to indicate he has hurt you.

He sounds very nervous(the lid slamming thing) he might of had a bad start. If you can bring him to the puppy socilisation classes and do remember he is still only a pup.

LisaO

Personally I am with Makikomi on this one.

If a poster asked for advice on a type of dog suitable for a busy home with small kids I don't think anyone would be recommending a Pom or any other toy breed.

I can fully understand though how a Pom could be very appealing when you visit the pound looking for a dog - small, cute, fluffy & something a bit different from all the lab crosses, collie crosses, etc. Especially if a pound is simply looking to move one out & create space for the next one, with little or no regard for matching dog to prospective owners.

OP has been given opinions & advice on how to train the dog & may choose to do so. Or he may decide this dog's issues are too great & pose too much risk for his family to go down what may prove to be a long, expensive & risky route. Perhaps if he decides the dog is not for his family, the OP would consider placing the dog with a rescue rather than returning it to the pound?

Sounds from original post that this dogs issues go way beyond normal puppy behaviour & rough play.

Living with a dog can be beneficial to children. Dogs can enhance children’s self-esteem

By the same token, living with a dog with serious behavioural issues could also destroy a child's self-esteem, together with the risk of potential physical injury.

Eibhin

I own a pom and he has never shown any aggression to anyone. Yes he likes the sound of his own voice but would never snap.

OP - is he neutered? (Sorry if this has already been asked) This could be a really important factor. If he hasn't been...then book him in straight away.

Also, if you bring him back to the pound he will most likely be then tarnished with a "problem dog - unrehomeable" label and destroyed after 5 days.

There is amazing help out there now for dogs with problems. Please please don't give up on him yet without exploring other options with training.

One quick fix that you could even start trying straight away would be to use a water spray, and every time he growls or barks when inappropriate he gets a squirt. It might help while you are looking for some training classes to bring him to.


Lastly....what is he doing in the bathroom with you anyway? (re toilet seat problem?)

Ticktactoe

Its a love hate suituation here really.

Its seems such a pity to give the dog back as he doesn't seem to have had the best start and possibly doesn't know what he is doing. However there are small children involved and visitors also.

If the dog was handled/trained properly I would give him a good chance of coming right but is it the right environment for him to be trained in i.e young children?

I would personally love to give it a shot but I would keep him away from the children and anybody calling to the house. If he bit me I wouldn't mind but I wouldn't have him biting anybody else.

riddleyscott

Thanks for the reply's I will give it another month.

andreac

riddleyscott wrote: »

Thanks for the reply's I will give it another month.

But you need to get professional assistance and training to guide you and teach the dog properly. Dont just leave it another month as it is, the dog needs training classes and a professional to show it how to behave properly and correct the bad behaviour how it should be corrected and handled so please make sure you do this or the problem will just get worse.

If you let us know where you are based we can recommend someone for you.
If you dont do this, the situation is just going to get worse im afraid.

Toulouse

Agree with Andrea, there's no point in just leaving it and seeing what happens. You're not coping as it is and unless you get some professional advice then I don't really see how you're going to turn this around.

You need to consult a reputable behaviourist and see if this behaviour can be worked with or not. Then at least you'll know. Please let us know whereabouts you are so we can recommend someone to you.

riddleyscott

I am base in the Kildare area, people with suggestion in dog training, I will check out some in the area but the cost of these classes could be an issue if they are too expensive I will not be able to afford them at the moment.
Regarding the dog going back to the pound, I will be given the dog to a place that dose not put dogs to sleep as I could not live with the guilt as we have got quite attached to this dog in the couple of months we have had it.

cocker5

riddleyscott wrote: »

I am base in the Kildare area, people with suggestion in dog training, I will check out some in the area but the cost of these classes could be an issue if they are too expensive I will not be able to afford them at the moment.
Regarding the dog going back to the pound, I will be given the dog to a place that dose not put dogs to sleep as I could not live with the guilt as we have got quite attached to this dog in the couple of months we have had it.

http://www.tagnrye.com/

Try this woman... she is based in Tallaght im sure she will travel to kildare... I used her to help with my issues i was having with my cocker a few years back.... she came out showed us what to do... stayed about 3 hours and i think she cost €130, but that was in 2006 during the good ole times so im sure she will be cheaper now... she gaves us loads of advice and it really help sort us and our guy out.. all the methods she taught us we used... we did everything she said, it took a few months but his behaviour TOTALLY changed

Also Fircroft in Rathangan are excellent....

http://www.fircroft.ie/

i do agee with the other posters though... the fact that you are giving it another month it great... BUT if you dont get some help, or get a training book or something etc and work on your dog his beahviour will not chage infact it will get worse over time... so my advice would be to call Tag n'rye...see what she says...

Best of Luck

LisaO

Hi OP. I think you are being very fair. Depending on whereabouts you are in Kildare you might want to check out:

http://www.citizencanineireland.com/default.asp

I had Emmaline call out to the house for 1 to 1 training & found her fantastic.

Best of Luck