Why is AH so misogynistic?

Krusader

liah wrote: »

.

The second one would be infracted because even if there is a smiley behind it, any adult can tell it's designed to offend the poster and is clearly against the charter, and those are the kinds of posts we're currently unhappy with the frequency of.

You had the 2nd one in quotes, show me where some one said this without it being infracted

IvySlayer

liah wrote: »

Yup. From what I've read the majority of women in the thread have stated they either enjoy, don't mind, or can tolerate the "Get back in the kitchen" standard type jokes.

The second one would be infracted because even if there is a smiley behind it, any adult can tell it's designed to offend the poster and is clearly against the charter, and those are the kinds of posts we're currently unhappy with the frequency of.

Well then go to a higher power. If enough people want change, then admins/mods will see to it that posts like that are a bannable offence. Maddie jokes are practically gone, 'your ma' jokes are banned, it can be done.

What do you think about midlandsmissus trying to argue that AH needs another female mod?

midlandsmissus

IvySlayer wrote: »

They do. This is not a sexist forum. Sharpshooter, WindSock, Dudess are among the most respected here.

So why are there women on here saying this is a sexist forum?

Roro4Brit

For all y'll women up in here. It's time to take Vagina Power back right now....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Zixl1NljA0

midlandsmissus

Crosáidí wrote: »

You had the 2nd one in quotes, show me where some one said this without it being infracted

It was said and it wasn't infracted. Hopefully Liah can find as I'm too tired to look.

Krusader

midlandsmissus wrote: »

So why are there women on here saying this is a sexist forum?

Probably just bored, yiz are

AnnyHallsal

I wonder if any other group of people talked about this kind of thing would they be treated similarly?

The cynicism's really astounding. Yeah, we're making it all up, we're way too sensitive.

Ectoplasm

IvySlayer wrote: »

They do. This is not a sexist forum. Sharpshooter, WindSock, Dudess are among the most respected here.

Yes...most of the time they do. And I agree with you for the most part. What I was trying to get across is when a female poster (as opposed to the contents of their post) is attacked, a) it sometimes seems to be simply because she is a woman and then b) it seems to be let slide a lot more often than other 'infractable' posts.

Krusader

midlandsmissus wrote: »

It was said and it wasn't infracted. Hopefully Liah can find as I'm too tired to look.

It wasn't said :eek:

IvySlayer

midlandsmissus wrote: »

So why are there women on here saying this is a sexist forum?

Ironic, as you want female mods here, not based on experience just on their gender which is sexist in itself.

Nevyn

snyper wrote: »

That somewhat hard to quantify though, how, other than a site wide survey do you prove you point?

Feedback is always important, and yes taken on merit, but - at the moment personally i dont see the merit.

I would like to think i am a fairly unbiased, i dont dislike women, i rather like them, and will defend anyone i think is been targeted unfairly, however, perhaps im slow minded - but im despite all that has been said, i just dont see the conspiracy

Because casual sexism is so pervasive.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2010/jul/30/casual-sexism-misogyny

Last month I graced the overground line's replacement bus service to Gospel Oak, north London. Sitting near some posh teens chatting about a party, I heard one boy snicker: "I have never so wanted to slap a girl as I did then." Everyone laughed and nodded.

Cut to a Starbucks in Holborn. Four sleek, Middle Eastern guys, the type who look like sophisticated, multilingual diplomats' kids. They're gossiping about their coursemates. One is laughing so hard he can barely speak: "That Saira, she is the ****ing ugliest girl I have ever seen in my life!" Or how about a tube journey last winter. A group of tracksuited, pimply London "youths". One of them mentions a schoolmate and another replies: "Yeah, but she's a slag though isn't she?" All nod sagely.

This is the casual sexism of strangers – strangers of difference races, classes, ages, cultures. They know that when the conversation flags, a joke at a woman's expense will revive the atmosphere in a twinkle.

Sometimes I don't need to use my supersonic skills to eavesdrop on this toxic matter. My own friends serve it up. An agent pal tells me he had to chase a publisher because "some bloody middle-aged woman didn't read the manuscript". A once-beloved writer friend relates how he Googles his exes, "and they all look like hags". Another man liked a book: "And I was dubious, you know, because it's a woman author." An urbane friend spotted a chic girlfriend of mine at a party: "Who's that whore over there?"

But let's talk about work. A photographer at a liberal publication discovered she and her female colleagues were paid less than their male counterparts. When she got pregnant her boss told her: "You can't be a photographer and a mother." We are not talking about six months embedded with Military Man-Trauma Unit Zero in the Democratic Republic of Macho, just shooting a house in Holland Park.

A radio producer recounted holiday tales of how he met "some tart from Thomas Cook". He showed me a picture of an author and jeered: "She's had her teeth done, look, look." When I asked, "Please, don't make stupid comments about women's appearance, OK?" he got angry. A female producer told me that when she recommended the excellent Quilts exhibition at the V&A to her boyfriend and father, they both jeered: "My boyfriend said, 'Were most of the people there women? I bet they were.'" Yes, Woman is truly jeer-worthy, and anything associated with Woman is jeer-worthy too.

An acclaimed novelist told me that when she and a male author turned up to review books for a radio show, she was assumed to be his PR by three different people before they even got inside the studio – where she was the only woman, and they only reviewed men's books. A prominent academic constructed a literary course featuring equal numbers of male and female authors. Her male students complained that there were too many women.

Why don't these women want to be named? Why don't I expose the perpetrators? Because the victims will be punished and women's jobs, opportunities and places will be lost. Belligerent women will be replaced by docile ones, or by men. So I say nothing, and we cling to our tenuous position and retain the privilege of working alongside the people whose "casual" sexism is nothing less than an integral part of a society steeped in contempt for women.

One night in 2008, I was on the radio discussing a lecture given by a prominent woman scientist earlier that day. It was me and three men, and one of them said she was "a bit schoolmarmish – and what's with the hair?" When I objected he mocked: "Oh, yes, let's all be feminists together, Bidisha."

Once, I liked the candid manner of a crew member I met when filming an interview. We talked about David Beckham. "He's great," said my new chum, "shame he's married to a dog." My best friend's dad, a lovely guy, one summer afternoon talking about actor Lucy Liu: "She looks like a bitch."

Hags, dogs, whores, bitches. It's amazing how much hate you can pack into a few syllables. How do you spot a woman-hater? By the way they talk about women, treat women, react to women, represent women. Bitching about women, slagging off women – even the language used to describe such slander comes from misogyny. The ubiquitous verbal violence supports physical violence and nobody, male or female, minds. If I were called a Paki in the street, I would have some hope of it being taken seriously. If I were called a slag – as I was last summer by a man on a bicycle, in Stepney – nobody would consider it report-worthy.

Misogyny is such a strong substance that women have absorbed and internalised it. A female book editor and I looked over some press shots by a woman photographer. Fifty-nine were perfect, the 60th was blurred. "She's been a bit of a silly tart, there," said the editor. A female radio producer, frustrated at a press officer's incompetence: "I've been speaking to their bitch PR." Another radio producer, angry at a female guest who was two minutes late: "She's a stupid bitch." An extremely sophisticated and gifted British-African writer, when I asked if her novel had come out in time for the Orange prize, sneered openly: "Ha! The Orange prize." No more words necessary, her contempt for the world of women was expressed in that immediately recognisable snort of disgust.

For men and women alike, casual misogyny is the climate and context of all their interactions. It is unconcealed and automatic. It affects the way women are received, portrayed and considered as colleagues, friends, workers, mothers, artists, thinkers, public figures and victims of male violence and discrimination. Apart from outright slander, jibes, names and insults there is: talking down a woman's work, interrupting her, teasing her, mocking her, talking over her, patronising her, sighing or rolling one's eyes when she talks, invading her personal space. The misogynists' approach to women can be summed up thus: sneer, leer, exploit, ignore.

There is a final, huge, virtually universal form of casual sexism which is expressed in nearly every house. Any man who thinks it's OK to live in a household where the woman does the overwhelming majority of all the housework, childcare and family admin is a woman-hater. If he weren't, it would agonise him to live in such an unequal and exploitative setup.

So, what to do about casual sexism? Don't perpetrate it yourself, call it when you see it and fight any man defending his misogyny or any woman defending her false consciousness.

Nodin

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Oh for god's sake.

It was being 'intimidated' about standing up about this issue!!

The report function is anonymous.

Secondly, how is being typed at "intimidating"? Any threats can be reported, any unfounded allegations reported. People have been sitebanned for that kind of thing.

midlandsmissus wrote: »

And look at the amount of hassle we've got on this thread alone!

A weak case, backed by some rather poorly chosen examples, cries of martyrdom - of course you're going to get "hassle". Even if you had a strong case, decent examples and dropped the martyrdom, people will disagree. Its a debate board - thats what happens.

Nevyn

TheZohan wrote: »

I have read your posts, to be quite honest all your posts to date appear as if they have been posted by a female.

I wonder....

So what if they are female, why does it matter does it make thier posters lesser if they were?

Catari Jaguar

IvySlayer wrote: »

What do you think about midlandsmissus trying to argue that AH needs another female mod?

I think, and no offence to the AH mods that are already up to their eyes, a lot is overlooked or seen as jokes and not nipped in the bud soon enough. Obviously a woman (apart from Dr. Zeus) is better at spotting misogyny and dare I say, take it more seriously? As we've learned most of the males here deny it's existence in AH and have the temerity for ask for proof.

AnnyHallsal

EMF2010 wrote: »

female posters are often dismissed simply because they are female.

It's happening on this very thread! The attitude has been quite dismissive.

Micky Dolenz

Nodin, drop it please

Nevyn

snyper wrote: »

So, because you and 3 other women have an issue (despite other women posting here not having an issue) you feel that the AH mods are wrong and you are right?

A lot of women have issue with it and they how those who speak about it get treated and they walk away, they dont' read or post here any more which seems to be what the AH blokes want, sure lets have female posters but only if they are AH totty and happy with the crude "complements" and laugh at the jokes which put members of their gender down and take part in that themselves.

AckwelFoley

Just so i can make my point clear to those that quoted me..

Im not saying that there isnt a problem, im saying i dont see it.

Its something that has been drawn to my attention so perhaps i will notice it.

If we are talking about

"lady x in news story is a slut"

If that comment offend you, sorry, but thats not going to be resolved, its not a post that shows hate toward women, its just a post about a woman who happens to be a slut


"Poster x, you are a lesbo"

Thats a ban. Unless followed by a or a

"Women drivers trying to reverse a trailor make me lol"

Thats.. well, something that you either ban or not. - oh look a fence, why dont i take a seat there

IvySlayer

AnnyHallsal wrote: »

It's happening on this very thread! The attitude has been quite dismissive.

It's not, I think it's just an overreaction by some people, and it's not because your women.

I think midlandsmissus is taking things way too far by demaning more female mods, I disagree with that, and please don't cry sexism.

Catari Jaguar

IvySlayer wrote: »

They do. This is not a sexist forum. Sharpshooter, WindSock, Dudess are among the most respected here.

Were Liah & Dudess respected in that Harasment thread today?! Are they being respected in here by a lot of posters? Bear in mind they're the ones on here arguing because they have experienced the sexism/ misogyny.

midlandsmissus

IvySlayer wrote: »

Ironic, as you want female mods here, not based on experience just on their gender which is sexist in itself.

I think you'll find I said a few posts back that I don't mind if there is a male majority in the Mods as long as there is a fair system in place.

However, If discrimination seems is in place and it seems to be due to majority male representation in the mods, then yes I think there should be more females present.
If there is no issue and the board is fair to both male and female then I have no problem with the sex make up of the mods. Why would I?

Nevyn

Nodin wrote: »

If you're genuinely intimidated by a generalised series of jokes on a message board, then I'd suggest thats the best course of action.

Not intimidated there are days the old blood pressure rises and I stop reading and posting in there. Unfortunately I often have better thing to do then enguage in some of the cretinous arguments on this topic, thankfully this thread seems to have some merit.

Celly Smunt

cherub rock wrote: »

Were Liah & Dudess respected in that Harasment thread today?! Are they being respected in here by a lot of posters? Bear in mind they're the ones on here arguing because they have experienced the sexism/ misogyny.

or perhaps they are the only ones arguing because they dislike what everybody else likes?

midlandsmissus

IvySlayer wrote: »

They do. This is not a sexist forum. Sharpshooter, WindSock, Dudess are among the most respected here.

Ironic then that Dudess was one of the women complaining about Sexism in AH??

Mrmoe

cherub rock wrote: »

I think, and no offence to the AH mods that are already up to their eyes, a lot is overlooked or seen as jokes and not nipped in the bud soon enough. Obviously a woman (apart from Dr. Zeus) is better at spotting misogyny and dare I say, take it more seriously? As we've learned most of the males here deny it's existence in AH and have the temerity for ask for proof.

What is wrong with asking for proof? Are we all supposed to follow blindly and with out question?

AnnyHallsal

pmcmahon wrote: »

or perhaps they are the only ones arguing because they dislike what everybody else likes?

That Sexual Harassment thread was a disgrace, and if the mods don't see it I won't be posting on Boards again. The way Liah and Dudess were treated wasn't funny, and was palpably hostile.

IvySlayer

cherub rock wrote: »

Were Liah & Dudess respected in that Harasment thread today?! Are they being respected in here by a lot of posters? Bear in mind they're the ones on here arguing because they have experienced the sexism/ misogyny.

That whole thread was a disgrace. Doesn't mean AH is sexist.

liah

Crosáidí wrote: »

It wasn't said :eek:

Wasn't it?
All of the following are in the sexual harrassment thread regarding the reporter.


Ugly:

about blank wrote: »

She is HOT

You are NOT

Manhating:

uwala wrote: »

lol @ the jealous bitter man-hate.

uwala wrote: »

The man-hate is strong with this one.

Feminazi:

consultech wrote: »

Yawn. Feminists gonn' feminate.

uwala wrote: »

]Dudess your feminazi rants are making me uncomfortable. We have the right to come here and not be harassed with boorish feminazi chimpanzee-style rants. Honestly, I'd expect a bit of maturity, it's just basic manners. Some women should just cop on, and grow up, and stop behaving like gibbons or orang-utans.

uwala wrote: »

Classic feminazi reversal.

All made in direct reference to well-constructed, respectful posts.

Nevyn

IvySlayer wrote: »

What do you think about midlandsmissus trying to argue that AH needs another female mod?

Just because a mod is female doesn't mean she will wade in on this issue,
there are a lot of women who think the world is post feminism and all that of it is just a larf and want to keep in with the lads.

So no any female as a mod will not help solve it.

A mod no matter what gender who gets why this carry on drives posters bot male and female away from the forum and how certain levels of this is unacceptable would be a good start.

IvySlayer

liah have you noticed there's just 2 people there?

Do those 2 make the whole of After Hours sexist?