AH & Perceived Sexism

AlmightyCushion

cherub rock wrote: »

What's the reasoning for this though?

Because they're just stupid jokes and we don't see them as that big a problem the same way we don't see stupid jokes aimed at men or gingers a big problem.

ibarelycare

cherub rock wrote: »

What's the reasoning for this though?

Why should jokes be removed just because a certain few don't like them? There are constantly jokes being made in AH that some people may find offensive (Madeleine McCann jokes, "bleedin foreigner" jokes, to name but a few) but the majority of posters "get" that that's the way the forum is. It can't cater for everyone, and if people don't like what's in it then they shouldn't read it, and also shouldn't demand that it be changed to suit their needs.

Leave AH as it is. There are enough "srs" forums on boards.

FWIW I'm female and I don't find the sexist jokes offensive.

Jazzy

but what of peoples personal agendas?! did you ever consider the agendas!!!??

as cushion pointed out, they are just stupid jokes. if you are letting them get to you, you should probably think about what is really getting to you rather then start a campaign

Sharpshooter

cherub rock wrote: »

This is the kind of stuff I reported because it leads to the misogynistic undertones of AH. When is a joke not a joke? If that's all let slide then it's encouraging this behaviour. And I'm surprised that it's left up to the girls to report this.

I was PMd that "No one else took offence to the posts" therefore I just disagreed with it it and it didn't warrant valid complaint. Was told to think before I report and to only report personal abuse. "Otherwise it prevents us catching the ones they should be dealing with." Excuse given: AH has a different style of posting to any other forum on boards.

Says it all really. This is why girls are put off reporting posts.

My Pm in full to you.

Hi cherub rock,

You seem to be reporting many many posts atm in AH that no one else is taking offence to.

I am looking into it but please don't abuse the report button as mods have to invest time looking into each reported post and if most are unnecessary it prevents us catching the ones we should be dealing with.

Now, I am not online very long but you seem to be reporting everything you disagree with.

People are allowed to disagree with you, but if they insult you or abuse you for your opinion then of course report it.



Please think about what I am saying to you, you are posting in AHs and it contains a different style of posting to any other forum on boards.

SS

I was willing to engage with you and I didn't expect you to misquote my pm out of context.

Imo, AHs is like a users regular, you get the same people posting and you soon get to know their sense of humour.


Sometimes people look in on AHs and don't like what they see, they don't get the humour and therefore don't come back or they will report a post they find offencive and when looked into by the mods it's deemed AH material and not acted on they might feel slighted in some way.

To those posters I would say, have a look at the forum in general, see how it works and take in the humorous side of it.

There are plenty of reported posts acted on believe me and imo we do a good job dealing with them.

Look at the Charter and then decide if you want to report a post.

I am female and I love AHs for what it is, it's funny most of the time, erratic all of the time and down right considerate when another boardsie is in trouble or needing help.

If AHs is not your favourite regular then do what you would irl and stay where you feel comfortable.

That's what I would do.:)

Overheal

ibarelycare wrote: »

Why should jokes be removed just because a certain few don't like them? There are constantly jokes being made in AH that some people may find offensive (Madeleine McCann jokes, "bleedin foreigner" jokes, to name but a few) but the majority of posters "get" that that's the way the forum is. It can't cater for everyone, and if people don't like what's in it then they shouldn't read it, and also shouldn't demand that it be changed to suit their needs.

Leave AH as it is. There are enough "srs" forums on boards.

FWIW I'm female and I don't find the sexist jokes offensive.

Similarly there was a 9/11 thread recently where another user - inadvertently, ironically? - made some comment about how they would want to jump out of a building or something and with the event in mind I found it pretty damn insensitive. Rather than go ape**** though and cause a ruckus or even click report? I PM'd the user, asking them to clarify if it was intentional, and we managed to resolve the misunderstanding in about 3 minutes.

If you don't think you like how a mod may (or may not) handle a situation, you can always talk to the other user in private and come to a resolution without getting moderators, admins, feedback, and a hundred other users involved.

I know I said this exact same thing 2 years ago and was disagreed with but in practice I find not everything demands the spanish inquisition. I've probably done this a dozen times since and only once has another user not been refreshingly cordial about the exchange. If the site is modeled on self-moderation I see nothing wrong with exploring the idea that two regular users can resolve their differences without escalation.

_feedback_

Maaaan above, I posted some soppy shít in here last night.










*whistles innocently, while wandering off towards the recycle bin, with wine bottle in hand.

Catari Jaguar

Sharpshooter wrote: »

My Pm in full to you.



I was willing to engage with you and I didn't expect you to misquote my pm out of context.

Imo, AHs is like a users regular, you get the same people posting and you soon get to know their sense of humour.


Sometimes people look in on AHs and don't like what they see, they don't get the humour and therefore don't come back or they will report a post they find offencive and when looked into by the mods it's deemed AH material and not acted on they might feel slighted in some way.

To those posters I would say, have a look at the forum in general, see how it works and take in the humorous side of it.

There are plenty of reported posts acted on believe me and imo we do a good job dealing with them.

Look at the Charter and then decide if you want to report a post.

I am female and I love AHs for what it is, it's funny most of the time, erratic all of the time and down right considerate when another boardsie is in trouble or needing help.

If AHs is not your favourite regular then do what you would irl and stay where you feel comfortable.

That's what I would do.:)

How was it misquoted?! It was paraphrased and delivered the context that you wanted me to have.

And from the charter under the sexism heading:

The best way to register dissatisfaction either with censorship or with a post that offends you is to get in contact with the moderators. Please use the report post function and we will assess the problem.

So people can report posts that offend them all they want. Some jokes are genuinely and purposely offensive.

Telling people to get out if they don't like it doesn't really make boards much of a community.

So nothing has been resolved here at all. No changes. And abuse is just abuse and report it. Great stuff.

pickarooney

Just consider that the more posts you report the less time and attention the mods will be able to devote to each one, to the point that if you post too many you'll be written off as a crank and any genuine complaints written off.

It's like having a nuisance neighbour. If you call the cops because he's playing trash metal at 4AM once, they may not do anything about it. If you call a second time the week after for the same thing, they'll start to recognise a pattern and may talk to the neighbour asking him to cut it out. If he repeats, he'll be on record as a serial asshat.

However, if you ring the cops every few hours to complain that the neighbour's sog barked, he sneezed too loud, he's playing what sounds like trance music if you put your ear to a glass against the wall etc., perhaps especially if you've been living beside the guy for 5 years and never said anything before they're going to think you're a PITA with a vendetta. They may even suggest you move house.

ibarelycare

cherub rock wrote: »

How was it misquoted?! It was paraphrased and delivered the context that you wanted me to have.

And from the charter under the sexism heading:

So people can report posts that offend them all they want. Some jokes are genuinely and purposely offensive.

Telling people to get out if they don't like it doesn't really make boards much of a community.

So nothing has been resolved here at all. No changes. And abuse is just abuse and report it. Great stuff.

Of course ABUSE should be reported and dealt with.

But you're talking about jokes that you find offensive. It seems very few people want AH to change, so why should it?

It's impossible to please everyone.

Nevyn

When those jokes are used to bring the posters gender into the thread and undermind them and derail the thread then it's a problem.

Dravokivich

cherub rock wrote: »

Some jokes are genuinely and purposely offensive.

But still a joke. A joke is the last thing that should ever be taken seriously. Liah has mentioned in her OP that the idea of this thread is in regards to abuse, not jokes (be they in good or bad taste).

Catari Jaguar

Thaedydal wrote: »

When those jokes are used to bring the posters gender into the thread and undermind them and derail the thread then it's a problem.

No point Thaedydal, the mob has spoken. Got keep the majority happy, want them to keep using boards.

And Pickarooney, I've been through the posts I've reported. They were new and relevant. Even Elvis Costello tried to get smart and write "Did you report these posts?" after the comments made to undermine the misogyny thread. Elvis & I cleared that up via PM though

_feedback_

cherub rock wrote: »

No point Thaedydal, the mob has spoken. Got keep the majority happy, want them to keep using boards.

And Pickarooney, I've been through the posts I've reported. They were new and relevant. Even Elvis Costello tried to get smart and write "Did you report these posts?" after the comments made to undermine the misogyny thread. Elvis & I cleared that up via PM though

I also replied on here cherub. I got mixed up.

tbh, you flying off the handle here is really weakening your side of this. You need to accept that you made a mistake by going back and reporting 30 posts. Reporting posts is the way to go. Going back and reporting 30 (relevant or not) is not.

Simples.

Gummy Panda

cherub rock wrote: »

No point Thaedydal, the mob has spoken. Got keep the majority happy, want them to keep using boards.

We if the majority are okay with the jokes (no abuse) and that includes both sexes then I'm afraid its an issue for you.

It's hard to force a culture & climate change for a large group of people.

Banned Account

cherub rock wrote: »

Comments from the Should I get a boob job thread. These were aimed at Liah. ...



... Liah got this from the moderator because she posted on the thread calling BS and disagreeing with the OPs behaviour:

For context, she got the warning for this - which is pretty personal.

pickarooney

Thaedydal wrote: »

When those jokes are used to bring the posters gender into the thread and undermind them and derail the thread then it's a problem.

That's what constitutes a personal remark though and there's always been a distinction in that. AFAIK it's not acceptable to bring any irrelevant personal information into a thread without the (tacit) consent of the person concerned. Even if someone has a pink unicorn avatar, a quote from the Qu'ran in their sig or the username BigGayJohn it's not on to reference those pointers out of context.

Adam

Thaedydal wrote:

When those jokes are used to bring the posters gender into the thread and undermind them and derail the thread then it's a problem.

personal abuse is personal abuse, be it about sex, age, height, weight, skin colour etc.
the problem is when you try to make a bigger deal out of it by calling it sexism.

if you are personally abused, for any reason including those listed above, report the post. the mods will obviously deal with it if it's a genuine report.

if you come across a generally sexist post, that you personally find offensive, you can similarly report it. but you can't expect a similar response to a different issue, and if the post is within charter guidelines, then you may not get the result you want.

and i don't think there is any middle ground between the two situations above.

BigGayJohn

pickarooney wrote: »

That's what constitutes a personal remark though and there's always been a distinction in that. AFAIK it's not acceptable to bring any irrelevant personal information into a thread without the (tacit) consent of the person concerned. Even if someone has a pink unicorn avatar, a quote from the Qu'ran in their sig or the username BigGayJohn it's not on to reference those pointers out of context.

Dudess

Adam, I don't like the word sexism (it's so subjective anyway) but I think it's disingenuous to say the insults thrown were gender-neutral personal abuse. They were personal abuse AND they were based on us being women. A man wouldn't have been referred to as a bitter, jealous, unattractive, man-hating feminazi - well it's HIGHLY unlikely he wouldn't anyway.
I want to keep the jokes too - no matter how crude - but it seems to me and others that there is personal abuse and uncalled for general statements about women at times, which would constitute misogyny specifically, not simply generic abuse.

AckwelFoley

cherub rock wrote: »

No point Thaedydal, the mob has spoken. Got keep the majority happy, want them to keep using boards.

Similar to elviscostello's post last night which mentioned my "jokes after the fact" With all due respect Cherub, your flippant remarks such as this are not beneifical nor are they accurate and are only going to antagonise people - people that are trying to form an opinion on this matter

liah

pickarooney wrote: »

That's what constitutes a personal remark though and there's always been a distinction in that. AFAIK it's not acceptable to bring any irrelevant personal information into a thread without the (tacit) consent of the person concerned. Even if someone has a pink unicorn avatar, a quote from the Qu'ran in their sig or the username BigGayJohn it's not on to reference those pointers out of context.

Yet OutlawPete is allowed to use my own history (my posts from ages ago) for his own slandering purposes?

Does that mean I'm allowed to report them?

Tallon

liah wrote: »

Does that mean I'm allowed to report them?

Your allowed report anything on the site...

Whether anything is done about it is a different story!

phasers

Slander?

Oh come on Liah, that's ridiculous.

ibarelycare

How is Pete's post slanderous when he was referring to posts that YOU wrote?

Gummy Panda

liah wrote: »

Yet OutlawPete is allowed to use my own history (my posts from ages ago) for his own slandering purposes?

If you post something in the public domain, you have to be prepared to stand by it in the future.

AckwelFoley

Just for the record, you cant "slander" somebody on a message board.

Slander refers to the spoken word.

Libel is what would cover the written word

Banned Account

snyper wrote: »

Just for the record, you cant "slander" somebody on a message board.

Slander refers to the spoken word.

Libel is what would cover the written word

And both are now obselete having been replaced by defamation which has to be untrue which can't be the case if you posted it.

liah

Gummy Panda wrote: »

If you post something in the public domain, you have to be prepared to stand by it in the future.

So then I guess that means literally nobody is allowed to EVER change the way they think or their opinions? That means every single person should be held accountable for every single thing they've ever done or said regardless of whether or not they've changed since?

I would never judge somebody based on what they said so long ago, and I would never use their opinion on another topic to try to invalidate points on an entirely different subject.

It's slanderous because its full intent and purpose is to bring me into a bad light and completely ignore any and all points I've made up til now. It's like Scientologists pulling up people's records when they try to leave the cult. It's wrong.

People. Change. You cannot speak with authority as to what's in my head at this time in my life. You cannot speak with authority as to what was in my head when those comments were spoken. You have no idea what I may have gone through, you have no idea what experiences I've had. You have. No. Idea. And that's why it is completely unfair to bring up the past in order to prove a point on the present.

The fact that you had to do that to even create an argument should tell you enough.

You don't know what I think now. You are using it to discredit me as a poster. You said it yourself. That is against the charter, and I've reported OutlawPete's posts.

I've said all I can say on the subject. I'm a good person who had nothing but good intentions in starting this and you ended it in a witchhunt against me because you couldn't let go of the past. I've tried to be fair and diplomatic and explain my viewpoint as clearly (and repeatedly) as possible without resulting to personal insults and dredging up the past and have been met with little but disrespect.

So be it. Good luck to the rest of the girls. I'm done.

Earthhorse

Oh good God really?

You guys really think she meant slander in the legal sense of the word? This is getting beyond childish at this stage.

Wibbs

pickarooney wrote: »

Just consider that the more posts you report the less time and attention the mods will be able to devote to each one, to the point that if you post too many you'll be written off as a crank and any genuine complaints written off.

Pretty much. It's not even so much the volume, but the reasoning behind the reports. If its looking like doing it for the sake of making a point you do look at the reports, but I have to admit for myself anyway with a jaded eye. Another would be a slew of reports about old posts. Again you tend to switch off. Personally speaking again.

Thaedydal wrote: »

When those jokes are used to bring the posters gender into the thread and undermind them and derail the thread then it's a problem.

This I agree with 100%. Throwing in a joke on a jokey thread is up for debate, but if anyone kicks off a serious thread and gets but you're only a woman/whatever, that's purely done either out of daftness or to undermine the argument. It breaks the cardinal rule of "Dont be a dick" and "attack the post not the poster".