TUF 12: "Team GSP vs. Team Koscheck" Thread *Spoilers*

Demeyes

I think it's crazy that they subtitle the english guy and leave Tyson without them! Good fight this week, glad to see it go to a 3rd round and decided in the ring instead of a bad judges decision.

Richard tea

I must have been watching a different fight. Wilkinson won the first and second round. God forbid the golden boy number 1 pick ( Michael )lost his first fight.:(

stiffler123

"I don't like losing to nobody, especially a french guy."- Josh Koscheck. Lol.

Minstrel27

Wilkinson for the wild card I think. I thought he was robbed.

sonic.trip

Demeyes wrote: »

I think it's crazy that they subtitle the english guy and leave Tyson without them! Good fight this week, glad to see it go to a 3rd round and decided in the ring instead of a bad judges decision.

yeah i know its crazy!!

great fight, wilks for the wildcard! does anyone think he tapped too quickly though?

loved the way tyson was shouting, one chance michael

scudzilla

bET THAT'S ANNOYED YA ;)

Wilkinson definately for the wildcard, i had him winning 1st round but a drawn second.

Didn't see much in Johnson that makes me think of him as the favourite

sonic.trip

sonic.trip wrote: »

great fight, wilks for the wildcard! does anyone think he tapped too quickly though?

Try fighting 10 minutes and then someone slaps a bloodchoke on you.:pac:
In all honesty I thought Wilkinson won it but at the same time Michael Johnson won't go far in the tournament unless the coaches get to pick the quarter final fights, another decent wrestler would be Johnson's Kryptonite. Maybe Koscheck's first pick would be a good match up for him?
Good episode though. Can't wait to see Sevak going ballistic at that Bruce Leeroy guy.

p.s Just noticed all of Johnson's losses have come from Submission. Interesting stuff.

Devastator

Good episode.

Mike Tyson weighing in....:rolleyes: I wonder how much that effected Michael Johnson. Must have been tuf(boom boom!) as he was preparing for his fight & in walks Tyson and everyone is paying attention to him. Bit unfair IMO.

Great fight, back and forth. I thought(based on previous UFC decisions) that Johnson won the 2nd round with take downs. I thought the 3rd round was on fastforward! Explosive ain't the word.

How long before koscock gives up trying to get into GSP's head with his immature antics? Every episode he's went on about "getting into GSP's head" when its blatently obvious the opposite is happening and koscheck's obsession with GSP shows that by not getting wound up is effect koscheck more.

Hated during the fight that his "corner" and his "coaches" seemingly couldn't have been bothered to learn Wilkinson's name as they kept shouting "English" when giving him instructions. Doubt you'll hear them referring to the yank's by their state

ScareGilly

Devastator wrote: »

Good episode.

Mike Tyson weighing in....:rolleyes: I wonder how much that effected Michael Johnson. Must have been tuf(boom boom!) as he was preparing for his fight & in walks Tyson and everyone is paying attention to him. Bit unfair IMO.

I would imagine if a fighter you look up to came into your dressing room to talk to you before a fight you'd be more pumped than before, doubt it'd sap your energy and make you feel less of yourself, I know I'd try to push myself even more if Mike Tyson came to watch me fight...

How long before koscock gives up trying to get into GSP's head with his immature antics? Every episode he's went on about "getting into GSP's head" when its blatently obvious the opposite is happening and koscheck's obsession with GSP shows that by not getting wound up is effect koscheck more.

You seem to have spelled Koscheck's name wrong? It didn't seem to happen with GSILoveToLieOnPeopleForFiveRoundsWithoutDoingAnythingAndPutOnTheMostBoringFightICanP though... Oops
He's not going to give up, why would he? That's who Koscheck is.. I'd imagine Koscheck can make him come out with something a little worse than "He's not a mixed martial artist" which Hardy got him to say, That's quite mad for GSP..

Hated during the fight that his "corner" and his "coaches" seemingly couldn't have been bothered to learn Wilkinson's name as they kept shouting "English" when giving him instructions. Doubt you'll hear them referring to the yank's by their state

What I gathered from that was I thought it was quite obviously a nickname for him? Or am I just completely wrong?

jayteecork

Guys, I'm no expert on TUF but this "winner picks the matchups" seems ridiculously powerful.

Has it always been this way?

Devastator

ScareGilly wrote: »

I would imagine if a fighter you look up to came into your dressing room to talk to you before a fight you'd be more pumped than before, doubt it'd sap your energy and make you feel less of yourself, I know I'd try to push myself even more if Mike Tyson came to watch me fight...

I'm not saying it would sap his energy, but think it could distract his thoughts away from his own fight. and his preparations.

That mis-spelling must have been a freudian slip

jayteecork wrote: »

Guys, I'm no expert on TUF but this "winner picks the matchups" seems ridiculously powerful.

Has it always been this way?

For the majority yeah. I think they may have tried something different in 1 season but not entirely sure(was season 1 a team challenge each week to pick the fight? I seem to recall Randy & Chuck being carried about a beach on high chairs in 1 and another with Forrest Griffin etc running up flights of stairs with cases of bottled water) Not sure if you seen the 1st show, whichever team wins the coinflip gets to choose "first fighter" or "first match".

bjj-fighter

Devastator wrote: »

I'm not saying it would sap his energy, but think it could distract his thoughts away from his own fight. and his preparations.

That mis-spelling must have been a freudian slip



For the majority yeah. I think they may have tried something different in 1 season but not entirely sure(was season 1 a team challenge each week to pick the fight? I seem to recall Randy & Chuck being carried about a beach on high chairs in 1 and another with Forrest Griffin etc running up flights of stairs with cases of bottled water) Not sure if you seen the 1st show, whichever team wins the coinflip gets to choose "first fighter" or "first match".

No on the first show the losing fighter was elimated if they lost a challenge as far as I can remember, or they had to chose a fighter to get rid of if they lost a team challenge. I think they did a coin toss to decide the fights, well I know they did that for seasons after that.

DeVore

Being called "English" is pretty standard in the US. In fact when I lived in California I was called "Irish" most of time (or "lucky" short for "lucky charms" a foul pseudo-Irish Leprechaun covered breakfast candy ... they are apparent, magically delicious. I wouldnt know, I wouldnt eat the things and coming from a guy who has dined on gummy bears and coke, thats saying something).

Its not just foreigners either, one bloke I worked with was called Boston for obvious reasons.

Wilkinson impressed me more then I thought he would, Johnson was a bit dissappointing but he had an explosive take down in the second that made me go "WOAH!"

He came out and finished it and I think justice was just about served. It will be if the English guy isnt topped by future fights and gets the wildcard.

DeV.

DeVore

ps: Leeroy is a kid and he was plastered and talking boll*x. Hands up here who hasnt done that.... but it does look like he's cocky and gonna get put on his ass. He should be realising he got lucky and working on the holes in his game which were exposed by a sub-optimal fighter. Against either of this weeks fighter, he's out cold imho.

DeV.

unknown13

I have to agree with you Dev. Leeroy is going to be on the end of a beating soon. Out of the 14 guys on the show he imo falls into the bottom 4.

Feel sorry for

Aaron Wilkinson

good fighter who has potential.

Mellor

Devastator wrote: »

He sat and said nothing when DW was going on about him making the correct pick....you may not see it as impressive, Dana white certainly seemed to.

I really don't see how that was impressive. They have the guys stats on the cards, this obviously includes records.
His records is 11-0, with all bar his first being a first round win by sub, and the 9 most recent subs were guillotine.

I really don't see how somebody could make any pick other than win by guillotine. Even somebody who never seen or heard of MMA would make that given his record.

Devastator wrote: »

Mike Tyson weighing in....:rolleyes: I wonder how much that effected Michael Johnson. Must have been tuf(boom boom!) as he was preparing for his fight & in walks Tyson and everyone is paying attention to him. Bit unfair IMO.

You have mike sitting ringside and shouting your name, even if he is past it now he is still a legend. I'd say it was a huge motivator for Michael, if it was unfair on anyone it was the other guy.

Hated during the fight that his "corner" and his "coaches" seemingly couldn't have been bothered to learn Wilkinson's name as they kept shouting "English" when giving him instructions. Doubt you'll hear them referring to the yank's by their state

Of course they know his name, they had been training with him for a while at that stage. Obv english was a nickname.

unknown13

John Danaher is just as annoying as GSP.

FIGHT SPOILER ;

Andy Main was poor and Kyle Watson took full advantage of that subbing him in the second round

TheOwl

Neither fighter will go far to be honest. Koscheck coming across as more and more of a jerk.

I Actually think the people in the house are being a bit unfair to Bruce Leeroy. In fairness I don't think he meant anything malicious by shouting "**** him up" during the fight, just seemed he was supporting his team mate and got a little carried away. I doubt if any other cast member was shouting it that it would have been such an issue. Then again from the sounds of things Leeroy is extremely annoying so its very easy for me to say that I wouldn't have used that excuse to have a go at him if he was annoying me 24/7. Though in fairness to Leeroy hes much younger than everyone and it seems he simply can't handle his drink, don't think hes a bad person at all but now as even hes alluded to hes becoming cornered and hated so subconciously hes now going to have a "F U" attitude towards everyone in the house and probably going to despised even more.

Thought the Sivek and Leeroy scene was hilarious though. Don't know if anyone noticed but it was so obvious that Sivek wasn't genuinely angry and had no intention of going for Leeroy. He knew someone would pull him away and it was obvious when he went around the table instead of directly for Leeroy that he was hoping that someone would grab him. Also the fact that he stood up, threw something, shouted and THEN went for him. If you're as angry as Sivek acted you'd just go straight for the ****er without the theatrics.

Minstrel27

I am going to watch only the fights from now on. The whole drama stuff is really tiresome at this stage.

Gitb1

unknown13 wrote: »

John Danaher is just as annoying as GSP.

Ive never seen much of him before but just from watching the most recent episode i think hes a pretty cool guy

Pontificatus

unknown13 wrote: »

John Danaher is just as annoying as GSP.

The little insight we are getting into Danahers philosophy, phschology and training is by far and away the best thing about this show.

Tones69

Pontificatus wrote: »

The little insight we are getting into Danahers philosophy, phschology and training is by far and away the best thing about this show.

Some dude aint he. He reminds me of an older creepy stefan bonnar, kinda nerdy lookin well spoken guy that looks like he could lose the head any second ha

jayteecork

Apparently John Danaher showed up to Matt Serra's wedding wearing his rash guard.

Renzo Gracie says he's on the mat 12-14 hours per day.

So yeah he's a little bit obsessive.

Gitb1

jayteecork wrote: »

Apparently John Danaher showed up to Matt Serra's wedding wearing his rash guard.

Renzo Gracie says he's on the mat 12-14 hours per day.

So yeah he's a little bit obsessive.

I heard he never wears anything other than rash guards.

DeVore

Did anyone else pick the winner from the first 5 minutes? Main looked wiped out in the second, he just didnt seem to have an answer. Koschek annoyed me as he seems like a total jock with the "I dont want to lose to a *nerd*" comments, a racist when he outright said "I dont want to lose, not a french guy" and a really poor coach when he kicked the chair and left before the winner was announced, leaving his fighter in the ring. Thats a douche move right there.

The fight was technically very interesting bet apart from a bad start never seemed to be going any way but for Team GSP who just seem to have a much better coaching and training strategy then Koscheck's "just do what i say, you dont need to understand" approach.

I think they put a lot more "drama" into this episode simply because there wasnt much "fight".

DeV.

Exclamation Marc

DeVore wrote: »

Koschek annoyed me as he seems like a total jock with the "I dont want to lose to a *nerd*" comments, a racist when he outright said "I dont want to lose, not a french guy" and a really poor coach when he kicked the chair and left before the winner was announced, leaving his fighter in the ring. Thats a douche move right there.

The fight was technically very interesting bet apart from a bad start never seemed to be going any way but for Team GSP who just seem to have a much better coaching and training strategy then Koscheck's "just do what i say, you dont need to understand" approach.

I couldn't agree with you more on the Koscheck issues. I was actually up for Kos before the series started, but he just comes off like such a jerk. I've always respected GSP as a fighter, but seeing him rise above Koscheck and admit that he himself was bullied and yet he reacts to everything so calmly and honestly, it really makes me respect him as a person. Even his cheeky team selection tactic was great fun to watch and he seems like a nice guy you'd get on with, whereas Kos is the "popular kid" from school who was a bully.

Listening to Kosheck go on about beating a French guy and a nerd just smacks of the college jock culture and is really unappealing. He's giving Ortiz last year and Shamrock previously runs for their money as worst coach as his approach is just way off. GSP knows his limits and the team he has seems amazing, I could listen to Danaher all day. He lets the 'pros' do what they do best and he remains as the best sparring partner they could ask for. If Koscheck gets whitewashed I would be thrilled.

I REALLY want GSP to destroy Kos in the coaches challenge this year.

HellsAngel

Devastator wrote: »

Hated during the fight that his "corner" and his "coaches" seemingly couldn't have been bothered to learn Wilkinson's name as they kept shouting "English" when giving him instructions. Doubt you'll hear them referring to the yank's by their state

Big deal. As if this country wasn't bad enough we're really getting into extreme political correctness. Worked on building sites on the continent where fellas if they couldn't think of their name for a second or two or down in the pub would refer to them as Jock, Paddy, Aussie, Geordie etc. As I said, big deal.

It was particuliarily common for culchies to refer to each other by their county or city name, " Hi Galway where's the f*** length of 4 be 4 for Jayus sake...... Didn't I leave it there beside ya Tyrone or are ya f*** blind as well etc etc

Mellor

DeVore wrote: »

Did anyone else pick the winner from the first 5 minutes? Main looked wiped out in the second, he just didnt seem to have an answer. Koschek annoyed me as he seems like a total jock with the "I dont want to lose to a *nerd*" comments, a racist when he outright said "I dont want to lose, not a french guy" and a really poor coach when he kicked the chair and left before the winner was announced, leaving his fighter in the ring. Thats a douche move right there.

I disagree. Kos is cocky, but those racist commetns, or the nerd comment are just there to wind GSP up, for the camera etc.. He isn't stupid (managed to get a degree while at college, not jsut wrestling ), he knows the GSP is a MMA legend, he knows that it will take everything he has to beat him (not the TUF series, the fight). He took a round off him the last time, now he needs three.
GSP is maybe the better wrestler, but its close.
GSP is clearly the better JJ fighter,
Strikes is to be seen, Kos has been training alot to improve this.
Talking smack is the only area where Kos is better, he is just capitalising on this.

Look at recent coaches, Tito/Ken, Rampage/Evans, Hendo/Bisping, Mir/Nog (ok only mir here), serra/Hughes
Zuffa clearly made a decision to go for drama and smack talk over the mutual respect of other seasons (bar season 2), Kos is just making sure he meets his brief imo

unknown13

Mellor wrote: »

I disagree. Kos is cocky, but those racist commetns, or the nerd comment are just there to wind GSP up, for the camera etc.. He isn't stupid (managed to get a degree while at college, not jsut wrestling ), he knows the GSP is a MMA legend, he knows that it will take everything he has to beat him (not the TUF series, the fight). He took a round off him the last time, now he needs three.
GSP is maybe the better wrestler, but its close.
GSP is clearly the better JJ fighter,
Strikes is to be seen, Kos has been training alot to improve this.
Talking smack is the only area where Kos is better, he is just capitalising on this.

Look at recent coaches, Tito/Ken, Rampage/Evans, Hendo/Bisping, Mir/Nog (ok only mir here), serra/Hughes
Zuffa clearly made a decision to go for drama and smack talk over the mutual respect of other seasons (bar season 2), Kos is just making sure he meets his brief imo

It is close but the big question in the fight is: Can Koscheck stop the takedowns since he has the ability to. If Yes, Kos should KO him, if No GSP wins by decision.

Mellor

That's a bit simplistic.

GSP has excellent stand up, Kos had no stand up for a long time, (see Kos v Leben, vs Diego Sanchez first time round)
And if he stops the take downs, where does he end up;
Take down = BBJ black belt's rubber guard
Stuffs it = toe to toe with a black belt
cliches = yup another black belt here, wrestling/judo combo

Plastikman_eire

Kos is a better wrestler then GSP no question. However GSP uses his wrestling more effectively in MMA, he transitions between striking and grappling alot more fluidly then koscheck does, that will be the difference in the fight IMO.

conor678

Just watched latest episode there. Fight was good. You can tell the producers are really trying to milk every bit of 'drama' out of everyone hating bruce leroy. Getting a bit pathetic at this stage to be honest.

Kos antics are even more annoying. His mind games to get into GSP's head are just pure childish and in my opinion are detrimental to his fighters. GSP is coming out of this very well as he is absorbing Kos' childish antics and instead focusing on his fighters which is only beneficial to them.

The Muay Thai specialist GSP brought in was a real character. Would've loved him to crack Kos when he was trying to wind him up

conor678

conor678 wrote: »

The Muay Thai specialist GSP brought in was a real character. Would've loved him to crack Kos when he was trying to wind him up

No need for the spoiler tags when it's in the title
Yeah Jean Charles is a character. Came along drunk :pac:
I loved Koscheck's comment to GSP "Kiss me now and I'll leave MMA forever!"
Straight out of Talladega Nights. Laughed very hard :pac:
Nam Pham proved himself in that fight. Very good chin and some good ground and pound and Jiu Jitsu. Have to say I knew nothing of him going into the fight. Paige looked very tired going into the second I suppose the injuries helped this along but all in all a good win for Nam. Didn't like Koschecks antics in the dressing room though, GSP was visibly pissed off and he had a right to be.

Agree that Jean Charles was a legend. It's actually pretty mad that St.Pierre would bring such an alco over, would the insurance allow for someone to be so intoxicated while training?

I definitely wanted to see him smack koscheck, it would have possibly been the best moment in the ultimate fighter ever!


Liking Nam Pham, and liking GSP more by the episode. GSP most definitely is bringing a lot of character to the show.

DeVore

Great fight, Nam Pham does seem like a good fighter though I felt bad for his opponent who suffered through it. I actually was torn between seeing Nam Pham win (which I wanted, as I like his attitude) and seeing Koscheck get his first win, during which he and his team acted disgracefully imho. There was no need for banging on the wall and all that crap, it just continued to highlight the difference between GSP and Koscheck in terms of "class".

I cant wait to see GSP crush him when they fight.

DeV.

DeVore

Oh and that Muay Thai instructor didnt really impress me... getting drunk and kicking the crap out of people who have been told that if they hit back he'll knock them out, made him seem like a bully. Still would have liked to see him drop Koscheck

DeV.

Fozzy

DeVore wrote: »

Oh and that Muay Thai instructor didnt really impress me... getting drunk and kicking the crap out of people who have been told that if they hit back he'll knock them out, made him seem like a bully. Still would have liked to see him drop Koscheck

DeV.

I read a blog from one of the fighters (Kyle maybe?) and he said that the first day Jean Charles was just beating them up but it seemed like he had the wrong impression of what he was there to do. The rest of the week he was very helpful and helped teach them all

Tones69

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Agree that Jean Charles was a legend. It's actually pretty mad that St.Pierre would bring such an alco over, would the insurance allow for someone to be so intoxicated while training?

I definitely wanted to see him smack koscheck, it would have possibly been the best moment in the ultimate fighter ever!


Liking Nam Pham, and liking GSP more by the episode. GSP most definitely is bringing a lot of character to the show.

He probably had one shot before training or something, to americans thats an alcohol problem

Tones69

DeVore wrote: »

Great fight, Nam Pham does seem like a good fighter though I felt bad for his opponent who suffered through it. I actually was torn between seeing Nam Pham win (which I wanted, as I like his attitude) and seeing Koscheck get his first win, during which he and his team acted disgracefully imho. There was no need for banging on the wall and all that crap, it just continued to highlight the difference between GSP and Koscheck in terms of "class".

I cant wait to see GSP crush him when they fight.

DeV.

DeVore wrote: »

Oh and that Muay Thai instructor didnt really impress me... getting drunk and kicking the crap out of people who have been told that if they hit back he'll knock them out, made him seem like a bully. Still would have liked to see him drop Koscheck

DeV.

Remember though, they only show us snippets of what they want us to see, jean charles could have been showing them loads of technical stuff earlier in practise, and then did a bit if ringwork kickin ass but they only showed us those couple of bits, wanted it to look like he was bullying them around the place with ease

Mellor

DeVore wrote: »

Oh and that Muay Thai instructor didnt really impress me... getting drunk and kicking the crap out of people who have been told that if they hit back he'll knock them out, made him seem like a bully. Still would have liked to see him drop Koscheck

DeV.

That's not what GSP said.
He said that he was tough and that he wants the team to respect him, before another guy didn't respect him and went hard in sparring to prove himself and Jean Charles knocked him out.
He didn't say that weren't to strike back.

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Agree that Jean Charles was a legend. It's actually pretty mad that St.Pierre would bring such an alco over, would the insurance allow for someone to be so intoxicated while training?

Don't really see how it'd affect insurance. The elimination fights are full contact, full power etc, being drunk in traning isn't going to send the risk through the roof. and he was hardly that drunk.

jayteecork

Guys, this is my first ever season of watching TUF properly and I'm loving it.

Could you good people recommend me which other seasons are the best ones of download.

Cheers.

jayteecork

jayteecork wrote: »

Guys, this is my first ever season of watching TUF properly and I'm loving it.

Could you good people recommend me which other seasons are the best ones of download.

Cheers.

season 1!

jayteecork

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

season 1!

Kind of know who wins that though.
Not really sure about any of the others though, I know Rashad won too, was it season 2?

stiffler123

jayteecork wrote: »

Guys, this is my first ever season of watching TUF properly and I'm loving it.

Could you good people recommend me which other seasons are the best ones of download.

Cheers.

The one with Rampage and Rashad, not so much for the fights but Rampage was hilarious in every episode.

PerrinV2

stiffler123 wrote: »

The one with Rampage and Rashad, not so much for the fights but Rampage was hilarious in every episode.

He was but the fights were terrible

jayteecork

jayteecork wrote: »

Kind of know who wins that though.
Not really sure about any of the others though, I know Rashad won too, was it season 2?

Trust me, it's probably the most entertaining of all the seasons. I think it's all on youtube too

Mellor

jayteecork wrote: »

Kind of know who wins that though.
Not really sure about any of the others though, I know Rashad won too, was it season 2?

you'll know who wins a lot simply based on the fighters you recognaise.

Season one gave us lots of fighters, the winners.
Griffin, Bonnar, Chris Leben, Josh Koschek, Sanchez, Florian, Mike Swick.

Season 2 is good too.

Season 3 annoys me - Matt Hammil/Bisping/Kendel Grove/Kalib Starnes
They all annoy the hell out of me on that show

Season 8 with is ok, the fighters aren't all that great tbh, but its interesting

Season 9 was good, UK vrs USA

Didn't see a whole lot of 4-7, gave up on 10 and 11 too

MrStuffins

jayteecork wrote: »

Guys, this is my first ever season of watching TUF properly and I'm loving it.

Could you good people recommend me which other seasons are the best ones of download.

Cheers.

I loved the season with BJ Penn v Jens Pulver. Some great fights, some great characters, some Gabezilla!

And the rivalry between the 2 coaches was the best of all the seasons IMO. Even better than the Tito v Ken for me.

Fromvert

Watch the TUF 3, just for the final.

Grove/Herman, best TUF fight

Mellor

Fromvert wrote: »

Watch the TUF 3, just for the final.

Grove/Herman, best TUF fight

lol, em no,
clearly forgeting about

Forrest v Bonnar - contender for one of the best fights ever plus in terms of growth of UFC over the lst 8 years, this fight is hugely important