New arthouse cinema (Pálás)

Mrs OBumble

nuac wrote: »

...doesn't excuse this massive commitment of public money to a minority interest for some cinemaw luvvies.

His point was that the money could have been used to build social houses.

Mine was simply that the money couldn't have just been transferred from Arts projects to social housing.

Not disagreeing that it's taxpayer's money, or that I disagree with some of the priorities of the government for it's money.



The "cinemaw luvvies" jib is a whole different story though. I wonder how much council resources goes into maintaining sporting facilities for people who have nothing better to do with their time than chase a ball up and down a field? I could call those people names, too. But I refrain from typing them here, because it's just rude to do so.

nuac

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

His point was that the money could have been used to build social houses.

Mine was simply that the money couldn't have just been transferred from Arts projects to social housing.

Not disagreeing that it's taxpayer's money, or that I disagree with some of the priorities of the government for it's money.



The "cinemaw luvvies" jib is a whole different story though. I wonder how much council resources goes into maintaining sporting facilities for people who have nothing better to do with their time than chase a ball up and down a field? I could call those people names, too. But I refrain from typing them here, because it's just rude to do so.

OK, happy with my amendment to "cinema lovers"?

Still imho it a huge amount of money for a minority interest.

nuac

On RTE 1 now, Prime Time discussing deal with ELement.
Says Charities Regulator concerned at proposed transfer to private operator
Regulator unhappy about transfer to Element
"significant concerns"
but funding continuing!
Tax payer in the hole here for about €9 million.
Some time now since Solas auditor resigned. No news that he has been replaced.

Chain Smoker

Yeesh, I've been checking in on this every few months since I left galway and it's crazy how little progress of any kind seems to occur amidst the various news stories. It's either a few people in total denial who are too deep in to think rationally or everyone is scared ****less of the fallout from giving up on it and keep putting it off so someone else has to deal with it.
I'm sure my feelings about the arts in Galway and this project are a few pages back so I won't repeat them.

If anyone has a right to be pissed off about this project it's the various groups within the arts who could've actually used the money to produce _something_, literally anything. It's hard enough to get funding in that area as it stands without big huge moronic yokes like this. I assume this is continually draining quite a lot of funding away from other projects as the years go on too? The original sum must have only been for 2-3 years of development, surely?

westgolf

Construction has restarted so we are back to one-traffic-lane chaos again.

what_traffic

westgolf wrote: »

Construction has restarted so we are back to one-traffic-lane chaos again.

What kind of "chaos" has been witnessed to date westgolf?

westgolf

what_traffic wrote: »

What kind of "chaos" has been witnessed to date westgolf?

Tailback from there to harbour hotel as they were building the hoarding and one lane closed..same as what went on with last builder.

serfboard

westgolf wrote: »

Construction has restarted so we are back to one-traffic-lane chaos again.

Well in fairness, do we want them to finish it or have it left as a white elephant? I'd rather it was finished - this will necessitate some short-term pain, but this project is too much in the spotlight now to let it drag on indefinitely.

Thargor

serfboard wrote: »

Well in fairness, do we want them to finish it or have it left as a white elephant? I'd rather it was finished - this will necessitate some short-term pain, but this project is too much in the spotlight now to let it drag on indefinitely.

If it ran for free it would be good to finish it but if its an ongoing neverending sinkhole for funds for something that nobody really wanted or needed they might be better off turning it into apartments or donating it to the university or something.

nuac

Any reliable survey of numbers who would actually pay to see films there?

or is this just

1. Build it and they will come?

2. Too much spent now to abandon it.

Any reliable figure for amount of private, non-public funds, in this?

Mrs OBumble

Thargor wrote: »

If it ran for free it would be good to finish it but if its an ongoing neverending sinkhole for funds for something that nobody really wanted or needed they might be better off turning it into apartments or donating it to the university or something.

Eh? A cinema in the city centre something that no body wanted or needed?

Needed, I agree.

Wanted - you bet people want it. I absolutely want it, think it's ridiculous that people have to trudge out to a bog on the Headford Rd to see a movie.

Tilikum

westgolf wrote: »

Tailback from there to harbour hotel as they were building the hoarding and one lane closed..same as what went on with last builder.

Yesterday the tailback was to the radasson hotel.

Thargor

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Eh? A cinema in the city centre something that no body wanted or needed?

Needed, I agree.

Wanted - you bet people want it. I absolutely want it, think it's ridiculous that people have to trudge out to a bog on the Headford Rd to see a movie.

Yeah that 10 minute walk from Eyre Square can be a real ordeal. I think they have concrete footpaths and tarmacked roads out there now so you dont have to worry about sinking into the bog anymore.

As per the Primetime report their own due diligence showed them requiring a crazy amount of screenings at >50% occupancy every day all year round to break even so it looks like it will be a sinkhole going forward.

gordongekko

Tilikum wrote: »

Yesterday the tailback was to the radasson hotel.

There is a bus strike on

ben.schlomo

gordongekko wrote: »

There is a bus strike on

Yep all roads in and out were a disaster and it can't all be blamed on that stretch of road.

xckjoo

westgolf wrote: »

Tailback from there to harbour hotel as they were building the hoarding and one lane closed..same as what went on with last builder.

Doesn't that tailback regularly go half way back Lough Atalia even with two lanes at the cinema open?

pure.conya

serfboard wrote: »

Well in fairness, do we want them to finish it or have it left as a white elephant? I'd rather it was finished - this will necessitate some short-term pain, but this project is too much in the spotlight now to let it drag on indefinitely.

finishing the place would mean the state or local authorities will have to start ploughing millions into the place annually just to keep the doors open, so in my mind the best thing that could have happened was the place never opening at all

what_traffic

westgolf wrote: »

Tailback from there to harbour hotel as they were building the hoarding and one lane closed..same as what went on with last builder.

ah Ok, thats what I thought. The usual car traffic chaos here at peak times. Bus strike probably increasing number of cars on the road as well.

How long will this "fit out" take?

Arghus

what_traffic wrote: »

ah Ok, thats what I thought. The usual car traffic chaos here at peak times. Bus strike probably increasing number of cars on the road as well.

How long will this "fit out" take?

By my estimation: Nine years and two Prime Time Investigates.

what_traffic

Arghus wrote: »

By my estimation: Nine years and two Prime Time Investigates.

I presume Element Pictures (who run the Lighthouse Cinema in Dublin) are responsible for the final Fit Out of the Cinema now?

Arghus

what_traffic wrote: »

I presume Element Pictures (who run the Lighthouse Cinema in Dublin) are responsible for the final Fit Out of the Cinema now?

You would think so, but we're not at that stage yet are we?

Nothing would surprise me with this fiasco if Element Pictures wash their hands of all this and then we're back to square one. Well, back to square minus one, or two.

Realistically how popular is this going to be? I mean, it's a small screen art house cinema, which likely won't be playing mainstream movies & there are two pretty major cinemas within a 20 minute walk on either side. I see this as being a money hole that barely floats.

jh79

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Realistically how popular is this going to be? I mean, it's a small screen art house cinema, which likely won't be playing mainstream movies & there are two pretty major cinemas within a 20 minute walk on either side. I see this as being a money hole that barely floats.

Dublin could only support 2, can't see it being a success here.

Unrealistic

westgolf wrote: »

Construction has restarted so we are back to one-traffic-lane chaos again.

I drove down there on Sunday afternoon and there was a huge tailback in the left hand lane but the right hand lane was still open so the tailback seemed to have been just the sheer volume of cars wanting to cross Wolfe Tone Bridge. I drove in the right hand lane again this evening, because I needed to get to Middle Street, and I noticed the new hoardings at the cinema but they don't block the lane. Maybe the lane gets closed for trucks to enter and exit the site but it doesn't seem to be a general thing.

Chain Smoker

Deleted User wrote: »

Realistically how popular is this going to be? I mean, it's a small screen art house cinema, which likely won't be playing mainstream movies & there are two pretty major cinemas within a 20 minute walk on either side. I see this as being a money hole that barely floats.

I don't see it succeeding, and if I still lived in Galway I'd love it to succeed but the awful attendances I can recall for anything remotely niche in the Eye or IMC don't exactly give me tons of confidence. Galway and the arts is quite weird in general, there's a batch that seem to think it's a lot more of an artists haven than I've ever seen any evidence of it being.
If it is built and it does fail, you're prolly gonna have a pretty nice building inside that can be designated to do youth theatre workshops and **** like that along with private events I'm sure.


When I was there, there were several cases of pretty heavily acclaimed films with very poor turnout in the Eye/IMC that wound up being in the THT's film season a few weeks later for a few euro more in a worse environment, where they got the usual pretty strong attendance. Now, there's two ways of looking at that:
1. Those people assumed the other cinemas wouldn't show anything along those lines so they never check the listings
2. A big part of the appeal of the THT film season is that it's a routine thing they have to put absolutely no thought into, curated for them and keeps them up to date
The second option seems much more likely to me (those opera things in the Eye tended to do quite well, like, gotta be a lot of crowd overlapping there), and if that's the core support you're building from, you're probably onto a bit of a loser ...unless you can get a ton of them to pay loads on membership fees they'll never get the value out of.

Storm 10

Could never understand why they did not use the Black Box or Leisureland for their films, hell of a lot cheaper than building this cinema which is a huge cost to the City when so many people are homeless.

nuac

It seems the attitude amongst our "betters" is "This is art, pay up"

Chain Smoker

The trend of negative posts in this thread reads far more like outright contempt towards the arts (as opposed to this particular project) rather than actually giving a ****e about social housing or whatever

Thargor

Chain Smoker wrote: »

The trend of negative posts in this thread reads far more like outright contempt towards the arts (as opposed to this particular project) rather than actually giving a ****e about social housing or whatever

Oh FFS thats your takeaway from reading this thread? Murrr the begrudgers hate the arts?

Does the fact that there are calls by city councillors for an investigation into this project alongside the fact that Primetime have devoted 2 investigations to how big a screwup it is not tip you off that something is badly wrong? You think there should be zero accountability on any construction project no matter how many millions are p1ssed away (they cant even put a figure on it yet) because its "art"?

Chain Smoker

Thargor wrote: »

Oh FFS thats your takeaway from reading this thread? Murrr the begrudgers hate the arts?

Does the fact that there are calls by city councillors for an investigation into this project alongside the fact that Primetime have devoted 2 investigations to how big a screwup it is not tip you off that something is badly wrong? You think there should be zero accountability on any construction project no matter how many millions are p1ssed away (they cant even put a figure on it yet) because its "art"?

Pfft, it's possible to take away more than one thing. read my posts, I think the thing is a total shambles AND I think it'd struggle hugely even if everything was handled well in construction. it's a total embarrassment that there doesn't even seem to be any particular individuals to hold accountable, it's pretty bad that this thread is basically the only source for anything resembling regular updates regarding the project for years

...but there's numerous posters who have repeatedly contributed little more than what amounts to frothing at the mouth rage directed towards the arts.

nuac

Chain Smoker wrote: »

Pfft, it's possible to take away more than one thing. read my posts, I think the thing is a total shambles AND I think it'd struggle hugely even if everything was handled well in construction. it's a total embarrassment that there doesn't even seem to be any particular individuals to hold accountable, it's pretty bad that this thread is basically the only source for anything resembling regular updates regarding the project for years

...but there's numerous posters who have repeatedly contributed little more than what amounts to frothing at the mouth rage directed towards the arts.

I do hope those remarks are not intended to stifle criticism of this project. Every taxpayer is entitled to express a POV on this. They are also entitled to write to the Local Government Auditor for the region. The Council will have the address

I have been involved for many (50+) years in community development of various sorts in the West. It is usually very difficult to get state or local authority backing for projects. Many hoops to jump thru, detailed research, projections and business cases to be made.

Rare to have practically entire cost on ratepayer and tax payer. The local contribution here is nominal

Even if project OKd, there are usually tight controls and referrals re scoping, appointments of consultants, architects, project leaders and team.

Work usually tendered and contractor appointed after advertisement in accordance with Public Procurement Directives.

Progress reports to community etc. etc.

Little sign of any of that here,

I haven't heard that the auditor who resigned has been replaced. If the company is still trading without an auditor the directors are at some considerable personal risk.

I am not satisfied that there will be enough paying customers to keep this place going, should it ever open

what_traffic

Any deliverys to the Cinema yet? Any activity noticed?

thesandeman

Popcorn.

nuac

what_traffic wrote: »

Any deliverys to the Cinema yet? Any activity noticed?

Tumbleweed, artistically arranged.

what_traffic

nuac wrote: »

Tumbleweed, artistically arranged.

Nice. Any photos of this NEW installation?

joeKel73

"€9 million arthouse cinema finally set to open this year"

Pushed about an exact opening date, Mr Lowe said it would be “definitely finished this year”.

“We expect it to be open by Christmas. We need to get it open by Christmas. It’s the busiest time of the year.”

http://connachttribune.ie/e9-million-arthouse-cinema-finally-set-open-year-009/

serfboard

J o e wrote: »

http://connachttribune.ie/e9-million-arthouse-cinema-finally-set-open-year-009/

The Connacht Tribune wrote:

Element Pictures ... increased their investment to nearly €900,000 in a bid to complete the fit-out, with their final funding likely to run to nearly €1m.


They will have a 30-year lease to run the facility, which will have a bar and cafe. They will have to repay Solas’ debt of €650,000 to the Western Development Commission over the next 25 years and will start to pay commercial rent to Galway City Council which still owns the site from 2026.

Presuming that they know what they are doing, Element Pictures seem to have negotiated a pretty good deal for themselves. Having said that, I think Galway City Council was in a very weak position.

If, however, as a lot of posters on this thread seem to believe, it's going to be a disaster and never make money, then 1 million is a lot for a private company to throw down the drain ...

Chain Smoker

nuac wrote: »

I do hope those remarks are not intended to stifle criticism of this project.

Regarding you in particular, my comments were more focused on how tiring your snipes are and how they just devalue the actual substance of your points.
I'd have to go back over the thread to make sure but I think you've actually been one of the few regular sources for any kind of info on the project and I appreciate that.

serfboard wrote: »

Presuming that they know what they are doing, Element Pictures seem to have negotiated a pretty good deal for themselves. Having said that, I think Galway City Council was in a very weak position.

If, however, as a lot of posters on this thread seem to believe, it's going to be a disaster and never make money, then 1 million is a lot for a private company to throw down the drain ...

No clue when that deal was struck but I think GCC hadn't any kind of negotiating power there at all. Far far better to give it for f*ck all to a group that know what they're at than run the risk of someone else paying a bit more and going under within a year. That's the kind of stuff you should try to figure out before getting started really...

Was it always down to be ran by them? A mini-Lighthouse has a much better chance of succeeding in Galway than some deluded notion that Galway can support an IFI type entity of its own. Them operating the two cinemas would do a lot to reduce the costs of obtaining rights to screen things and promotional materials and so on.

serfboard

Chain Smoker wrote: »

No clue when that deal was struck

The Connacht Tribune wrote:

Filmmaker Leila Dolan, who spearheaded the project from the beginning, approached Element Pictures to run the arthouse cinema in a similar vein to its Light House Cinema in Dublin in 2013.

Following concerns over how the project was being managed, the public funders including Galway City Council, the Irish Film Board and the Department of the Arts, Heritage Regional, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs asked Element Pictures last year to take over management and oversee its completion.

"asked" is one word. "Begged" is another ...

Chain Smoker

serfboard wrote: »

"asked" is one word. "Begged" is another ...

That late on? Begged for sure!

Does that mean the original guys are now completely gone from the project?

nuac

Chain Smoker wrote: »

That late on? Begged for sure!

Does that mean the original guys are now completely gone from the project?

Were there any original investors?

Most of the funds seem to be coming from the public purse.

Arghus

I suppose the story in the paper represents some sort of positive news or at least a greater sense of clarity about where the project is now.

That said, "Before Christmas" is a promise that carries a big feeling of deja-vu with it.

joeKel73

Sure if it's not open by Christmas 2017, there's always Christmas 2018 to aim for... ;-)

Robbo

"Solas Galway Picture Palace Company Limited" (sic) was placed into liquidation following an EGM on July 3rd (source, page 938). Not sure what bearing this has on the rest of the project.

smurf492

Solas no longer behind this... Bought by a well known company based in Dublin...

ronnie3585

Who bought it?

Arghus

Element Pictures. The same gang that run The Lighthouse cinema in Dublin.

Arghus

Arghus wrote: »

Element Pictures. The same gang that run The Lighthouse cinema in Dublin.

Given that the Lighthouse Cinema is still open, while competing against other larger franchise cinemas close by in Dublin, then this is very good news.

Hopefully they can carry that success across. It's utterly pointless still, of course, but it's good that it's being run by people that know what they're doing.

joeKel73

smurf492 wrote: »

Solas no longer behind this... Bought by a well known company based in Dublin...

ronnie3585 wrote: »

Who bought it?

Arghus wrote: »

Element Pictures. The same gang that run The Lighthouse cinema in Dublin.

Where'd you get this from?

According to this, "Ownership of the building will rest with Galway City Council. Element Pictures will lease the building and operate the cinema upon completion.".
https://fora.ie/picture-palace-galway-liquidator-3488624-Jul2017/

Mrs OBumble

Deleted User wrote: »

It's utterly pointless still, of course,

Why is it utterly pointless?