Do you go to mass

gurramok

Jakkass wrote: »

I still believe this to be nonsense, particularly when looking over my own experience. Going to church does not make you a Christian, contrary to popular opinion. Going to church does help arguably, but in many cases it doesn't. You need to actually believe for yourself, and make sense of it for yourself.

A 5 yr old cannot make decisions for themselves. Thats why they have parents to look after them.

The guy

theparish wrote: »

Was on holidays lately and said to myself I would stroll down to the local church having not been to mass in a while.All going through the motions until the sermon when my ears began to cock.He was one of the most frank and honest priests I ever heard.He compared the catholic church to Fianna Fail where every priest was forced to tow the party line and that he was sick of it.He said that the hierarchy needed to wake up to the 21st century,cannon law was secondary to civil law,the need to promote contraception,co-habitation may lead to stronger marriages,respect for gays the whole nine yards.It goes to show that there are alot of good proper thinking priests out there and that they cannot be painted with the one brush.

I don't go to mass but plenty of priests are quite liberal and have to tow the line or they get sent to parishes which have less influence.

ravendude

Quote:
Originally Posted by theparish
Was on holidays lately and said to myself I would stroll down to the local church having not been to mass in a while.All going through the motions until the sermon when my ears began to cock.He was one of the most frank and honest priests I ever heard.He compared the catholic church to Fianna Fail where every priest was forced to tow the party line and that he was sick of it.He said that the hierarchy needed to wake up to the 21st century,cannon law was secondary to civil law,the need to promote contraception,co-habitation may lead to stronger marriages,respect for gays the whole nine yards.It goes to show that there are alot of good proper thinking priests out there and that they cannot be painted with the one brush.

The guy wrote: »

I don't go to mass but plenty of priests are quite liberal and have to tow the line or they get sent to parishes which have less influence.

IMO, that particular priest should face up to reality and consider leaving the priesthood. Such views are not compatible with being in the church as someone who represents and advocate the church's views to followers. These are grave,serious issues that effect (and cause deaths of) thousands of people and he should not stay in the club if he disagrees with them.

AAAAAAAHHH

THFC wrote: »

What he said was totally unfounded. He is the perfect example of some one trying to force their beliefs on other, like (and I have no problem admitting this) the church in the past. A bit hypocritical if yeh ask me.

If you don't accept that the three major religions have their roots in the same place you're being a bit naive.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

AAAAAAAHHH wrote: »

If you don't accept that the three major religions have their roots in the same place you're being a bit naive.

I do believe what you are saying. But he was implying all religious order's have similar roots.

kelle

MagicMarker wrote: »

What have I said in this thread that suggests to you that I'm trying to convince anyone of anything?

I'm just highlighting the fact that she was forced into religion, and now she's doing the same to her children, even though she's only doing it because of her husband. It doesn't sound to me that she is a believer. It's quite sad really.

The only person who is being forceful here is you!

Actually, if you think I'm forcing religion onto my children and that I should not be bringing them to mass will you come over and mind them for the hour while I'm gone?

MagicMarker wrote: »

Tell me, if you had children and your 5 year old son says ''Daddy, I don't want to go to church anymore, I don't believe in God'', what will you do? Will you respect that?

Hmm, maybe ignore the above - you haven't great parenting skills yet if you would allow a 5-year-old to be the decision maker. What if the same child says "I don't wish to go to school anymore, I don't believe in institutionalisation.". Will you "respect" that?


JAKKASS, thanks for your posts!

MagicMarker

kelle wrote: »

The only person who is being forceful here is you!

Actually, if you think I'm forcing religion onto my children and that I should not be bringing them to mass will you come over and mind them for the hour while I'm gone?

Is that the only reason you bring them to mass? Because there's no one to look after them otherwise? That's some ''faith'' you got there.

kelle wrote: »

Hmm, maybe ignore the above - you haven't great parenting skills yet if you would allow a 5-year-old to be the decision maker. What if the same child says "I don't wish to go to school anymore, I don't believe in institutionalisation.". Will you "respect" that?

School has an obvious benefit. Religion doesn't. So you would teach your child that a mythical sky fairy created the world even if they said they didn't believe it? And you're criticizing my parenting skills? What if your child said they don't believe in Santa? Would you ignore this too?

rainbow kirby

I'm an atheist, and I haven't been inside a church for anything other than a wedding or funeral since I was 11. My parents gave me the choice after confirmation - "The church considers you an adult now, make up your own mind". I immediately started enjoying lie-ins on a Sunday morning.

kelle

MagicMarker wrote: »

Is that the only reason you bring them to mass? Because there's no one to look after them otherwise? That's some ''faith'' you got there.

God, you're all talk. You didn't answer my question!

You come across as being such a forceful person, I can see you changing your mind in a few years time and becoming an OTT religious fanatic - bringing your children to mass every single morning, only taking holidays in Knock, Fatima and Lourdes, throwing holy water on them before they go out and giving them rosary beads to wear to the nightclubs!

MagicMarker

kelle wrote: »

God, you're all talk. You didn't answer my question!

You come across as being such a forceful person, I can see you changing your mind in a few years time and becoming an OTT religious fanatic - bringing your children to mass every single morning, only taking holidays in Knock, Fatima and Lourdes, throwing holy water on them before they go out and giving them rosary beads to wear to the nightclubs!

Which question, the one about a child saying they don't want me to go to school anymore? Was that a serious question? Seriously? Do you think bringing your child to church is as important as them going to school?

Unlike you, I won't be changing my mind. I don't believe in fairy tales you see.

kelle

MagicMarker wrote: »

Unlike you, I won't be changing my mind. I don't believe in fairy tales you see.

I don't believe in fairytales either, and in the past I would have written what you wrote! So never say never, dear!

In the meantime, may the Lord bless and protect you (if you remember who He is!)

Anyway, I'd better go and collect my darling kids from school!

Mars Bar

Nope. Only for anniversary masses, funerals, weddings, christenings. More out of respect for the person and families involved rather than to say hi to God or Jesus or whoever.

Long Term Louth

MagicMarker wrote: »

Which question, the one about a child saying they don't want me to go to school anymore? Was that a serious question? Seriously? Do you think bringing your child to church is as important as them going to school?

Unlike you, I won't be changing my mind. I don't believe in fairy tales you see.

Take it then your answer is no, you dont go to mass, :rolleyes:

LordSutch

-Corkie- wrote: »

Do you go to mass

Simple question. Do you go or not!!! Simple question. Do you go or not!!!

So this thread is only open to Roman Catholics :cool:

Maybe the title should read "Do you go to Church".

Cat Melodeon

I voted yes, although I don't go very often. I go for all the usual social occasions - weddings, baptisms, funerals (can't beat a good funeral) - and for the anniversary masses of close family and friends. As I get older there are more family and friends kicking the bucket, so I'm going a bit more frequently than I used to. I'd average about one church visit per month. I have no faith, but I do like the communal experience, the chanting, the singing and the chance to meet neighbours and acquaintances. I also like the local priest, he's got a great sense of humour, is very unpatronising and inclusive and is a brilliant community worker. I'm also raising my child to be Catholic. The extended family is and there is value to be had from being part of a church community. I'm not forcing it on him, as he gets older I'll be sure he knows how to question his beliefs and if he decides it's not for him that's fine. I think it's safer to lose a religion than to try finding one.

I don't think it's a simple as yes/no for a lot of people, nor do I see the Catholic church collapsing the way that some people seem to think it will/should.

biko

Only at Christmas because herself insists I go at least once a year.
I just see it as a anthropological experiment.

philologos

ravendude wrote: »

That's a huge difference. He will be teaching his children based on his experience of the world and modern ethics. By contrast, christians teach their children a code of morality based on blind unquestioning absolutism (eg. condoms are bad), fear of retribution and derived from a book written by primitive farmers and fishermen with little understanding of how the world works (eg. Sun revolving around the earth).

Christians teach their children based on experience also. Just to be clear.

Secondly the misconceptions:
1) Only the RCC prohibits contraceptives.
2) The Bible does not say that the sun revolves around the earth.

Have you read the Bible, or are you only spouting what you think it says?

Onesimus

I go to mass sometimes every day if I can, but definitely every Sunday.

philologos

gurramok wrote: »

A 5 yr old cannot make decisions for themselves. Thats why they have parents to look after them.

Missing the point.

Belief isn't generally something that starts from a young age and sticks. Rather it is something that matures, and something that one has to consider oneself at a later date.

There becomes a point where one has to rationalise ones beliefs for oneself. If they don't make sense, they are discarded, and if they do, they are retained.

In the vast majority of cases where I have discussed with Christians, faith is something that is decided upon roughly in late teens, early adulthood rather than something that is held from childhood in the same form.

I mean when I was a kid, my prayers were childish. Mostly selfish, asking God to get me X, Y, or Z rather than a communication of genuine faith.

LordSutch wrote: »

So this thread is only open to Roman Catholics

Maybe the title should read "Do you go to Church".

Even better, "Do you attend a place of worship?"

Turtwig

gurramok wrote: »

A 5 yr old cannot make decisions for themselves. Thats why they have parents to look after them.

Isn't this really the crux of the point though? Any parent would openly admit their child is not old enough to understand enough of the world to make what we consider grown up decisions. For example in politics, you wouldn't dare label a five year old child as a democrat,conservative, fascist, marxist etc. child, but oddly enough when it comes to religion the label of "catholic", "muslim", "Christian" etc child is apt and appropriate. Strange that.

philologos

^^ Do you label your child religion X, or Y by bringing them to place of worship of religion X or Y? - I'm not entirely sure to be honest. I'd be largely in the camp that you are defined by your own thought rather than by your parents thought.

Kimono-Girl

God no

my OH tries to make me....save my soul and all that but its long lost

Turtwig

Jakkass wrote: »

^^ Do you label your child religion X, or Y by bringing them to place of worship of religion X or Y? - I'm not entirely sure to be honest. I'd be largely in the camp that you are defined by your own thought rather than by your parents thought.

Yep me too.
Hey, is the world ending or something, we're agreeing a lot more than usual these days.:)

wild_cat

Maybe someone with a bit more know of the subject will clear this up for me.

If someone goes against the teachings of their faith, lets say pre martial sex etc does that automatically mean they can't call them selves a follower of said religion?

Personally I love the way Irish people pick and choose the parts of Catholicism they want to follow and the parts they don't.

DazMarz

No. I'm an atheist, so I fail to see the point.

LordSutch

wild_cat wrote: »

Personally I love the way Irish people pick and choose the parts of Catholicism they want to follow and the parts they don't.

Yes, and there's even a term for it called "A la carte Catholicism" or Pic & Mix Catholicism

Somebody even suggested recently (tongue in cheek) that most Irish catholics are actually protestants at heart, because like Protestants many RCs now use contraception, like Protestants they dont heed the Pope, many dont really believe in purgatory, and many Roman Catholics have even started singing Protestant hymns over recent years :eek:

Maybe this thread should be moved to the Christianity Forum?

ravendude

Quote:
Originally Posted by ravendude
That's a huge difference. He will be teaching his children based on his experience of the world and modern ethics. By contrast, christians teach their children a code of morality based on blind unquestioning absolutism (eg. condoms are bad), fear of retribution and derived from a book written by primitive farmers and fishermen with little understanding of how the world works (eg. Sun revolving around the earth).

Jakkass wrote: »

Christians teach their children based on experience also. Just to be clear.

Secondly the misconceptions:
1) Only the RCC prohibits contraceptives.
2) The Bible does not say that the sun revolves around the earth.

Have you read the Bible, or are you only spouting what you think it says?

Just to be clear, - religion teaches an absolutist system of morality (as opposed to, for example, consequentialist or utilitarian). If you subscribe to the religion, you are expected to accept the absolutist morality as preached and also bring up your children accordingly (think baptism incorporates some of this into the ceremony).

Jakkass wrote: »

1) Only the RCC prohibits contraceptives.

I'm well aware as are the vast majority of people that it is the RCC in particular that prohibits contraceptives, it was "for example". And, I don't think it is "only" the RCC that prohibits contraception. Thats's not the point anyway, - virtually all religions have prescriptions such as this.

Jakkass wrote: »

2) The Bible does not say that the sun revolves around the earth.

Sorry, I accede you may be technically right here, - but I think most people accept that people in these times had (through no fault of their own) a very, very primitive understanding of how the world works.
This is the substantive point, arguing the technicality of point 2) is pedantism and irrelevant.
Certainly, the accepted nature at the time was not that the earth revolved around the sun. Most reasonable people will accept this.
Many people including myself will have found even more recent generations (our grandparents generation) etc. had some inane superstitions (banshees etc) that most probably emanated from a time when quite a bit less was understood about the world.

In my view the bible and much of religious teaching is an elaborate manifestation of such superstition (among other possible roots of religion, but thats a discussion for another day).

Scuid Mhór

i'm agnostic so no.

ravendude

Jakkass wrote: »

^^ Do you label your child religion X, or Y by bringing them to place of worship of religion X or Y? - I'm not entirely sure to be honest. I'd be largely in the camp that you are defined by your own thought rather than by your parents thought.

You would be the exception. People do and this is very much the case when it comes to census records. The majority if children have the "Catholic" box kindly ticked for them by their parents.

gurramok

Jakkass wrote: »

Missing the point.

Belief isn't generally something that starts from a young age and sticks. Rather it is something that matures, and something that one has to consider oneself at a later date.

There becomes a point where one has to rationalise ones beliefs for oneself. If they don't make sense, they are discarded, and if they do, they are retained.

In the vast majority of cases where I have discussed with Christians, faith is something that is decided upon roughly in late teens, early adulthood rather than something that is held from childhood in the same form.

I mean when I was a kid, my prayers were childish. Mostly selfish, asking God to get me X, Y, or Z rather than a communication of genuine faith.

Thats true. Sure weren't some of us brought up to go to mass constantly saying prayers, making confessions etc. I hadn't a clue what it meant until my teenage years and guess what when I was able to decide for myself like alot of others, we chose a different path to one which was rammed down our throats.

A similar analogy is like most girls are raised to wear the colour pink and when they get to teenage/adulthood when they can think for themselves they choose to wear other colours every day resulting in feck all adult girls/women wearing pink these days