Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Do you go to mass

Options
1234568

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    ravendude wrote: »
    Just to be clear, - religion teaches an absolutist system of morality (as opposed to, for example, consequentialist or utilitarian). If you subscribe to the religion, you are expected to accept the absolutist morality as preached and also bring up your children accordingly (think baptism incorporates some of this into the ceremony).

    Personally, I find a value based moral system to be more reasonable than a system where one is expected to be able to accurately calculate the results of their actions (utilitarian / consequentialism, a moral system I've studied a good bit at university). I would also agree that there is such a thing as absolute right and wrong.

    Christians base their values on their experience of the world, a world in which God is present.

    As for baptism, Christians differ in respect to what age that people are baptised. Personally, I think adult baptism is better.
    ravendude wrote: »
    I'm well aware as are the vast majority of people that it is the RCC in particular that prohibits contraceptives, it was "for example". Virtually all religions have prescriptions such as this.

    What you mean is that Christianity, amongst other belief systems regard God's way as being better than the ways of mankind. This is true, and obviously true.
    ravendude wrote: »
    Sorry, I accede you may be technically right here, - but I think most people accept that people in these times had (through no fault of their own) a very, very primitive understanding of how the world works.
    This is the substantive point, arguing the technicality of point 2) is pedantism and irrelevant.
    Certainly, the accepted nature at the time was not that the earth revolved around the sun. Most reasonable people will accept this.
    Many people including myself will have found even more recent generations (our grandparents generation) etc. had some inane superstitions (banshees etc) that most probably emanated from a time when quite a bit less was understood about the world.

    This is irrelevant to criticising the Bible. I would expect people to be familiar with what Christians actually believe before criticising them. Surely this is a fair standard to expect?

    By the by, point 2 is very relevant in that it points out that you haven't done your homework :p
    ravendude wrote: »
    In my view the bible and much of religious teaching is an elaborate manifestation of such superstition (among other possible roots of religion, but thats a discussion for another day).

    See above.
    gurramok wrote: »
    Thats true. Sure weren't some of us brought up to go to mass constantly saying prayers, making confessions etc. I hadn't a clue what it meant until my teenage years and guess what when I was able to decide for myself like alot of others, we chose a different path to one which was rammed down our throats.

    A similar analogy is like most girls are raised to wear the colour pink and when they get to teenage/adulthood when they can think for themselves they choose to wear other colours every day resulting in feck all adult girls/women wearing pink these days wink.gifsmile.gif

    I can't say I have any objections with this, as long as we realise that a "different path" doesn't necessarily lead to atheism. I'm not entirely sure that bringing children to church results in "ramming" anything down any throat. Perhaps in some cases it can be, but I'm still a skeptic in relation to this claim.


  • Registered Users Posts: 585 ✭✭✭ravendude


    Jakkass wrote: »
    This is irrelevant to criticising the Bible. I would expect people to be familiar with what Christians actually believe before criticising them. Surely this is a fair standard to expect?

    I beg to differ, it is far from irrelevant. The point is a simple one; that the bible is a book written by primitive people from a time when little was understood about the world and the "teachings" therein reflect this.

    The point is made. Let's agree to disagree and let more passive observers of this thread make up their own mind on this point.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    ravendude wrote: »
    I beg to differ, it is far from irrelevant. The point is a simple one; that the bible is a book written by primitive people from a time when little was understood about the world and the "teachings" therein reflect this.

    The point is made. Let's agree to disagree and let more passive observers of this thread make up their own mind on this point.

    It's irrelevant, precisely because if something is true, it's antiquity is irrelevant. Even the oldest known document to man if true, is still true, despite how "primitive" you might consider the people to be.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Jakkass wrote: »
    I can't say I have any objections with this, as long as we realise that a "different path" doesn't necessarily lead to atheism. I'm not entirely sure that bringing children to church results in "ramming" anything down any throat. Perhaps in some cases it can be, but I'm still a skeptic in relation to this claim.

    Any path that they choose whether its still a Catholic path, a Protestant path, a Buddhist path etc or an Atheist path. Basically, its the time when we can choose for ourselves which we couldn't do when we were aged 5 ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 585 ✭✭✭ravendude


    Jakkass wrote: »
    It's irrelevant, precisely because if something is true, it's antiquity is irrelevant. Even the oldest known document to man if true, is still true, despite how "primitive" you might consider the people to be.
    The "truth" can easily be called into question by the primitive world understanding of its authors.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    ravendude wrote: »
    The "truth" can easily be called into question by the primitive world understanding of its authors.

    Anything can be "called into question". That's incredibly easy to do. To dismiss it on the basis of being "old" is just absolutely fallacious reasoning though.

    gurramok: In agreement. It's the reason why I don't agree that bringing a child to church at a young age secures belief for life. Belief is a cognitive thing. It has to do with the mind.


  • Registered Users Posts: 585 ✭✭✭ravendude


    Jakkass wrote: »
    Anything can be "called into question". That's incredibly easy to do. To dismiss it on the basis of being "old" is just absolutely fallacious reasoning though.
    I don't dismiss it simply because it is old, but also because this primitive understanding of the world is exhibited in the nonsense throughout the book.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    ravendude wrote: »
    I don't dismiss it simply because it is old, but also because this primitive understanding of the world is exhibited in the nonsense throughout the book.

    Thus far you haven't demonstrated much knowledge of its contents though.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,159 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    No. I'm missing that need for ceremony, never mind the lack of faith in the basic tenets. Can't abide it really. It bored me to tears even as a kid and this was back in the "good oul days". Of the Catholic side. Priests? Most were sound. the ones I had dealings with. It's been my experience that different orders attract different characters so maybe that's it. CofI was like Catholicism with some of the BS taken out. More easy going.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 176 ✭✭LarrytheLantern


    No.
    Religion has held this country back for decades/centuries imo.

    Look at those countries where the church is flourishing, ie mainly 3rd world, backward, rife with corruption and superstition.

    A little religion is not such a bad thing imo, but where it becomes a dominant force and is allowed to dictate or strongly influence the democratic wishes of the citizens then you got problems.

    One only has to look at the recent history of this little island .........:o


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,025 ✭✭✭✭-Corkie-


    I cannot believe the results of the poll...:eek::eek:


  • Registered Users Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    -Corkie- wrote: »
    I cannot believe the results of the poll...:eek::eek:

    What did you expect of AH though honestly :D


    edit: interesting the tags are all about atheism
    I guess it's catholics/christians vs atheists only!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,025 ✭✭✭✭-Corkie-


    bluewolf wrote: »
    What did you expect of AH though honestly :D

    LOL....:)


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    bluewolf wrote: »
    What did you expect of AH though honestly :D


    edit: interesting the tags are all about atheism
    I guess it's catholics/christians vs atheists only!
    The results probably wouldn't be too different even if you posted in the christianity forum :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    bluewolf wrote: »
    I guess it's catholics/christians vs atheists only!

    The winner is.......


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 722 ✭✭✭Rycn


    No way, hate the smell of churches.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭alex73


    No.
    Religion has held this country back for decades/centuries imo.

    Look at those countries where the church is flourishing, ie mainly 3rd world, backward, rife with corruption and superstition.

    Actually the Catholic church is fastest growing denomination in the United states! , (3rd world I think not)


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    alex73 wrote: »
    Actually the Catholic church is fasted growing denomination in the United states! , (3rd world I think not)

    LOL!

    The US, where the rate of vaccine uptake is in decline (a first for modern "1st" world countries) and 3 states don't teach evolution in the classroom and 60% of its inhabitants believe the world is less than 10,000 years old. Plus it's got one of the highest rate of teenage pregnancies in the world...oops.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭alex73


    Malty_T wrote: »
    LOL!

    The US, where the rate of vaccine uptake is in decline (a first for modern "1st" world countries) and 3 states don't teach evolution in the classroom and 60% of its inhabitants believe the world is less than 10,000 years old. Plus it's got one of the highest rate of teenage pregnancies in the world...oops.

    And this has what to do with the Mass and Catholic church?...


  • Registered Users Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    Malty_T wrote: »
    LOL!

    The US, where the rate of vaccine uptake is in decline (a first for modern "1st" world countries) and 3 states don't teach evolution in the classroom and 60% of its inhabitants believe the world is less than 10,000 years old. Plus it's got one of the highest rate of teenage pregnancies in the world...oops.

    Catholicism would be an improvement so - some of those protestant branches the US has are seriously damaging and catholicism is pro-evolution, thankfully


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    bluewolf wrote: »
    Catholicism would be an improvement so - some of those protestant branches the US has are seriously damaging and catholicism is pro-evolution, thankfully

    Not fundamentalism Catholicism, which coincidently, is the one that is growing the fastest.:(


  • Registered Users Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    Malty_T wrote: »
    Not fundamentalism Catholicism, which coincidently, is the one that is growing the fastest.:(

    How do you mean? The pope spoke in favour? Or is this one of those catholic divides I don't know about? :(


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭alex73


    Hoc est enim Corpus meum quod pro vobis tradetur... If you don't believe in Christs sacrifice, then mass is meaningless.. The numbers (or lack of) at mass does not alter the truths of faith.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    alex73 wrote: »
    Hoc est enim Corpus meum quod pro vobis tradetur... If you don't believe in Christs sacrifice, then mass is meaningless.. The numbers (or lack of) at mass does not alter the truths of faith.

    Absolutely not, it does mean that the RCC will have to take its place amongst other faiths in a multi-denominational / pluralist society though.

    The RCC can no longer hold the sway that it did in politics, or in legislation. This is better for the RCC as well as better for the country as a whole, it means that churches can operate freely within society with minimal state interference and it means that faiths are on a grass roots level. This is more like what Jesus taught, and more like what Jesus did. He reached out amongst normal people.

    Personally, I don't think aggressive secularism will win out. People will get increasingly tired of it over time.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,096 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    If I'm out of bread


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭alex73


    If I'm out of bread
    :confused:


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,096 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    I guess you are right.

    /looks down

    I can never be out of the body of christ :cool:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭alex73


    I guess you are right.

    /looks down

    I can never be out of the body of christ :cool:

    Ignorant post = Ignorant MOD.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,096 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    alex73 wrote: »
    Ignorant post = Ignorant MOD.

    BAN ALEX73, THE PEOPLE DEMAND IT


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭alex73


    BAN ALEX73, THE PEOPLE DEMAND IT

    Stick to moderating Knights of the Round Table, Sleeping & Dreaming, Spell Czechs, The Cuckoo's Nest, Vegan & Vegetarian, Warcraft.

    If you have nothing intelligent to say on the matter why comment?


Advertisement