When to stop for Garda?

Seth Brundle

Voice commands and speed dial require the number of the garda station or trafficwatch to be stored on the phone which is unlikely.
Anyhow, as I have already mentioned, it doesn't matter because you can use your phone to contact the emergency services. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear earlier.

Esel

Connie_c28 wrote: »

By law you don't have to stop for an unmarked car or a Gardai who is not in full uniform.

Yes, the garda must be wearing a garda hat. Fact.

kbannon wrote:

From http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2006/en/act/pub/0023/sec0003.html#sec3

(7) It is a defence for a person charged with an offence under subsection (3), in relation to holding a mobile phone while driving a mechanically propelled vehicle, or under subsection (6), in relation to the use of a mobile phone or an in-vehicle communication device, to show that he or she was—
(a) using it to call the Garda Síochána, an ambulance, fire or other emergency service on numbers prescribed for such service, or
(b) involved in or acting in response to a genuine emergency.

cormie wrote: »

I'd be like Cinio myself, from what I've read before, he also drives for a living. Thanks for the statute links on the emergency call element, good to know that doing the right thing although may deter your driving quality somewhat, won't get you points!

There's a lot of hear say on these boards and there's nothing more reassuring than a quote from the statute books to clear things up

See the bit about 'on numbers prescribed for such service'? To be safe, be sure you call 999 or 112 only, not Traffic Watch or the local station!

Sorry for shouting in the Statute extract.

Seth Brundle

There is (AFAIK) no definition of prescribed number there so as I understand it, so any garda station phone is a number prescribed for "such service".

ILA

If you have any doubts about the nature of a traffic stop, I'd reckon calling the district station would be the best bet if you know the number. They are the ones in direct radio contact with all patrol and Traffic cars in any given District.

All the 999 Control Centre often do is phone that local station and relay the same message you would give them, although I could see the advantage in having them have a record of the call.

Regarding mobile phone use, I'm not use. I think I read somewhere before that emergency service personnel are exempt from that particular piece of legislation.

CiniO

I found something like this in here:

109.—(1) A person driving a vehicle in a public place shall stop the vehicle on being so required by a member of the Garda Síochána.


(2) A person who contravenes subsection (1) of this section shall be guilty of an offence.

(...)

111.—Where, in exercise of any power or the performance of any duty conferred or imposed by or under this Act, any member of the Garda Síochána makes in a public place a request, requirement or demand of, or gives an instruction to, any person, such person shall not be bound to comply with the request, requirement, demand or instruction unless the member either—


( a ) is in uniform, or


( b ) produces, if requested by such person, an official identification card or such other evidence of his identity as may be prescribed.

Now, I'm still not certainly sure how to understand it. Probably partially to bit complex language that is used here.
Is requesting a vehicle to stop by member of Garda, part of "exerciseing of any power or the performance of any duty conferred or imposed by or under this Act" ?
I suppose it is, but i'm not certainly sure.
Other thing is, that if offduty Garda without uniform tries to stop me, how can I request him for official identification, until I actually stop. On the other hand, why should I stop, if he's not in uniform.

Pleasy someone comment on this.

CiniO

sentient_6 wrote: »

This isn't the first time i've seen you on about about what the law/statute book/rules & regulations precisely say. I'm curious as to why your so into the letter of the law? What are you afraid of? Can't stand when people talk like oh the law says this or the law says that. 'Trambling on my rights!!!' :rolleyes:

Instead i hope your actually a law student doing a thesis on traffic laws or enforcement.

I'm not a law student, and never actually wanted to be.
I just find, that knowing the law makes your life easier. And that's the only reason why I'm interested.
I spend a bit of my free time on internet forums mostly about motoring, and I heard really thousands of different answers about different matters, usually contradicting each other. Only way to be sure what you are allowed to do, and what you are not, is to know the law.
Just in case someone will end up in the court (it can happen to anyone), judge won't listen that you heard somewhere on the internet that what you did was right, neither that you read in some book. But if you state the correct part of law, that could save your arse.

PS. I you don't like going into law, and analyzing things, just don't read my threads and posts

Esel

kbannon wrote: »

There is (AFAIK) no definition of prescribed number there so as I understand it, so any garda station phone is a number prescribed for "such service".

Imo, a defendant could be on a sticky wicket in court trying to claim that that is the case. Just imo.

sesna

I can't bring myself to believe any garda would lack the basic cop on to prosecute someone for calling traffic watch etc, while driving.

Hiluxmaniac

In case anyone's still interested.

A few years ago in my younger days, I was driving through a town with 7 people in a 5 seater car. A Garda wearing a Hi-Vis jacket appeared in the middle of the road with a flashlight, making pretty Irate hand signals to stop the car (may have been down to the lack of silencer). An on the spot decision was made (may have been down to the d***k or to the h**h) , I swerved the car and took off down the road with the Garda in hot (foot) pursuit. The car was dumped in a car park, and occupants found refuge in a local establishment. Half an hour later on a smoke break, a squad car pulled up 4 Gardai arrested me, breathalyzed me and incarcerated me ( with due cause, you might say ).
In court, charged with Failing to stop for a MGS, Dangerous driving, Driving without due care and attention, Drink Driving, and a string of other offenses lost to the mist of time. My defense, so eloquently put forward by my lawyer, " My client believed the Garda was waving to say hello, as he was known to my client personally, my client responded by waving back, and carried on by " in response to the drink driving evidence, "My client was drinking in a local bar between the time of the alleged incident and the time of arrest, consuming a number of double measure spirits".
I got off scott free, with a warning from the judge that he didn't want to see me in his court again.
My face leaving the court past the row of prosecuting Garda looked something like this :P

jaffa20

Hiluxmaniac wrote: »

In case anyone's still interested.

A few years ago in my younger days, I was driving through a town with 7 people in a 5 seater car. A Garda wearing a Hi-Vis jacket appeared in the middle of the road with a flashlight, making pretty Irate hand signals to stop the car (may have been down to the lack of silencer). An on the spot decision was made (may have been down to the d***k or to the h**h) , I swerved the car and took off down the road with the Garda in hot (foot) pursuit. The car was dumped in a car park, and occupants found refuge in a local establishment. Half an hour later on a smoke break, a squad car pulled up 4 Gardai arrested me, breathalyzed me and incarcerated me ( with due cause, you might say ).
In court, charged with Failing to stop for a MGS, Dangerous driving, Driving without due care and attention, Drink Driving, and a string of other offenses lost to the mist of time. My defense, so eloquently put forward by my lawyer, " My client believed the Garda was waving to say hello, as he was known to my client personally, my client responded by waving back, and carried on by " in response to the drink driving evidence, "My client was drinking in a local bar between the time of the alleged incident and the time of arrest, consuming a number of double measure spirits".
I got off scott free, with a warning from the judge that he didn't want to see me in his court again.
My face leaving the court past the row of prosecuting Garda looked something like this :P

You got off scot free for drink driving?

And you're proud of it?

Hiluxmaniac

I'm afraid through the eyes of my nineteen year old self, growing up in rural Ireland during the 90's where every one of my role models, including members of the Gardai, school teachers, councillors, doctors and any other state body you could mention drove and often worked under the influence of alcohol, Yes! I was damn proud of it! If I'd do it now? Hell No! There's enough mentally retarded people on the roads, without adding to them. Times change, attitudes change. Some things stay the same though, like those sitting up there on the moral high ground always willing to share something new and enlightening

overshoot

as far as i know, while you are obligated to stop for a guard if directed, BUT he can only stop you at a checkpoint or if he has a reason of suspicion. bare in mind doing a uturn right before a checkpoint is a good reason.
also isnt it illegal for anything other than an emergency vehicle to have blue flashing lights?... therefore making unmarked cars identifiable as guards(in an ideal world)

Going Forward

feelingstressed wrote: »

Good thread realy

You're driving a 60k Mercedes home from the nightclub at 3am

Ordinary car behind you starts flashing lights and has a siren
I can buy both on ebay.

They drive right behind you aggressively, then drive past you and in front of you.
You stop behind them

How do you know you aren't about to be carjacked?
Should you even stop? Maybe call a local station to see can they be identified?

Good Thread!
I recall a case like this in the paper. Unfortunately cant remember the outcome.

Going Forward

Hiluxmaniac wrote: »

In case anyone's still interested.

A few years ago in my younger days, I was driving through a town with 7 people in a 5 seater car. A Garda wearing a Hi-Vis jacket appeared in the middle of the road with a flashlight, making pretty Irate hand signals to stop the car (may have been down to the lack of silencer). An on the spot decision was made (may have been down to the d***k or to the h**h) , I swerved the car and took off down the road with the Garda in hot (foot) pursuit. The car was dumped in a car park, and occupants found refuge in a local establishment. Half an hour later on a smoke break, a squad car pulled up 4 Gardai arrested me, breathalyzed me and incarcerated me ( with due cause, you might say ).
In court, charged with Failing to stop for a MGS, Dangerous driving, Driving without due care and attention, Drink Driving, and a string of other offenses lost to the mist of time. My defense, so eloquently put forward by my lawyer, " My client believed the Garda was waving to say hello, as he was known to my client personally, my client responded by waving back, and carried on by " in response to the drink driving evidence, "My client was drinking in a local bar between the time of the alleged incident and the time of arrest, consuming a number of double measure spirits".
I got off scott free, with a warning from the judge that he didn't want to see me in his court again.
My face leaving the court past the row of prosecuting Garda looked something like this :P

Did you subsequently recieve much attention from the force?
Cant imagine you were too popular locally after that!

CharlieCroker

overshoot wrote: »

as far as i know, while you are obligated to stop for a guard if directed, BUT he can only stop you at a checkpoint or if he has a reason of suspicion. bare in mind doing a uturn right before a checkpoint is a good reason.
also isnt it illegal for anything other than an emergency vehicle to have blue flashing lights?... therefore making unmarked cars identifiable as guards(in an ideal world)

A member of ags can stop you at ANY TIME if you are driving a vehicle in a public place, doesn't need to be a c/p, no suspicion is needed etc!!

Hasn't this thread been done many times before? If you don't want to stop for a garda car, then don't. It won't be long before you see a few more behind you!!!!

flazio

I presume we all have the common sense that if a member of the public waves you to stop they may have a good reason such as accident or obstruction ahead and we wouldn't just drive on just because they aren't a member of the Gardaí?

Max Power1

flazio wrote: »

I presume we all have the common sense that if a member of the public waves you to stop they may have a good reason such as accident or obstruction ahead and we wouldn't just drive on just because they aren't a member of the Gardaí?

If I see some waving me to stop and I know they arent a member of AGS, theres no chance in hell i'd stop.

You just dont know what is out there.

flazio

Max Power1 wrote: »

If I see some waving me to stop and I know they arent a member of AGS, theres no chance in hell i'd stop.

You just dont know what is out there.

So if you were first on scene to an accident, blocking the road after a bend, that the emergency services weren't aware of yet, how would you stop oncoming traffic making things much worse?

Thoie

CiniO wrote: »

I found something like this in here:


Now, I'm still not certainly sure how to understand it. Probably partially to bit complex language that is used here.
Other thing is, that if offduty Garda without uniform tries to stop me, how can I request him for official identification, until I actually stop. On the other hand, why should I stop, if he's not in uniform.

Pleasy someone comment on this.

I'm not a solicitor, but can help simplify the language:

109.—(1) A person driving a vehicle in a public place shall stop the vehicle on being so required by a member of the Garda Síochána.

If you're driving, stop the car when asked by the Gardaí

(2) A person who contravenes subsection (1) of this section shall be guilty of an offence.

It's illegal not to.

For the long winded bits, it's often easier to read "outside the commas", so..

111.—Where, in exercise of any power or the performance of any duty conferred or imposed by or under this Act, any member of the Garda Síochána makes in a public place a request, requirement or demand of, or gives an instruction to, any person, such person shall not be bound to comply with the request, requirement, demand or instruction unless the member either—

( a ) is in uniform, or

( b ) produces, if requested by such person, an official identification card or such other evidence of his identity as may be prescribed.

So 111 boils down to the fact that all Gardaí can use that Act.
If they ask you to do something (such as stop), you don't have to unless:
- they're in uniform OR
- they can provide you with ID if you ask for it

If they're not in uniform a bit of cop on comes in. If it's 3pm outside the local supermarket with hundreds of people around, I'd stop, and ask for ID when they approach.
If it's 3am on a deserted back road with no-one around for the next 10km, I'd note the car registration, and call 112 (or the local garda station if I knew it) and ask them to verify the identity. If I did decide to stop, I'd ensure to stop in such a way that I wasn't blocked in, and would have the doors locked.

Of course, this all leads back to the question of "What does a Garda ID look like?". Gardaí are quite adamant that sample IDs cannot be shown, and that the epaulettes are sufficient identification. I disagree with that as I feel that if I don't know what a Garda ID looks like to start with then I don't know if the strange man is showing me a real one or not. Similarly epaulette numbers are just that - numbers.

Hiluxmaniac

Going Forward wrote: »

Did you subsequently recieve much attention from the force?
Cant imagine you were too popular locally after that!

Yep, you guessed it! Every single day, I was stopped and searched, told to hand in license and registration at the Garda station, followed home, followed to peoples houses, and generally harrassed. It was that sad that on one occasion I handed my license in to the Garda in the station, waited the usual half hour for "processing", left the station was followed half way home, pulled over and told to hand in my license, by the same Gard that I had just handed it in to. There will without a doubt be people who applaud this behaviour, and tell me I deserved everything I got and more. What is the point of having a justice "system" when egomaniacs are given a badge and the freedom to do whatever they want, including breaking harrassment laws. Surely the people who are given the job of upholding the law should set an example, and actually abide by the laws themselves.

Reg'stoy

Hiluxmaniac wrote: »

be people who applaud this behaviour, and tell me I deserved everything I got and more..

+1

amacca

Hiluxmaniac wrote: »

Yep, you guessed it! Every single day, I was stopped and searched, told to hand in license and registration at the Garda station, followed home, followed to peoples houses, and generally harrassed. It was that sad that on one occasion I handed my license in to the Garda in the station, waited the usual half hour for "processing", left the station was followed half way home, pulled over and told to hand in my license, by the same Gard that I had just handed it in to. There will without a doubt be people who applaud this behaviour, and tell me I deserved everything I got and more. What is the point of having a justice "system" when egomaniacs are given a badge and the freedom to do whatever they want, including breaking harrassment laws. Surely the people who are given the job of upholding the law should set an example, and actually abide by the laws themselves.

I see where you are coming from but your young self was a bit of a tit imo

drunk driver narrowly missed killing me one night as I was walking home from college - broke a red light and swerved into a pier 2ft behind where I was...front of car buckled beyond recognition - thats saying something as it was a big heavy tank of a jag, then with a stench of petrol (fuel line broke or maybe even tank ruptured) the old boy proceeded to try and light himself a cigarette....I still marvel that I tried to stop him lighting it (and succeeded given he had locked the doors) in view of what could have happened....... to both of us

yes they should have abided by the courts decision without harassing you but most of me says you didnt deserve to get off scot free and if you had maybe you would have taken the incident more lightly than it deserves.

SC024

jaffa20 wrote: »

You got off scot free for drink driving?

And you're proud of it?

Ah come off it now Why shouldn't he be? The man has every right to be

-Chris-

SCO24, I think you're trolling.

Please don't post again on this thread.
@everyone else - please don't respond to SCO24's post.

SC024

LOL why would you think that

-Chris- wrote: »

SCO24, I think you're trolling.

Please don't post again on this thread.
@everyone else - please don't respond to SCO24's post.

TylerIE

overshoot wrote: »

as far as i know, while you are obligated to stop for a guard if directed, BUT he can only stop you at a checkpoint or if he has a reason of suspicion. bare in mind doing a uturn right before a checkpoint is a good reason.
also isnt it illegal for anything other than an emergency vehicle to have blue flashing lights?... therefore making unmarked cars identifiable as guards(in an ideal world)

A Member if AGS can stop you for any reason or no reason when driving your vehicle in a public place.... S/He can also demand your driving licence and insurance and if you have not got them with you can demand production to a Garda Station in 10 days. Furthermore if you dont have your licence with you they can give you an on-the-spot fine (unlikely, most will just demand production at worst).

As annoying as it was when I was younger its perhaps good for helping to prevent drink driving etc as Gardai can randomly stop vehicles rather than having to set up formal check-points.

jock101

feelingstressed wrote: »

Good thread realy

You're driving a 60k Mercedes home from the nightclub at 3am

Ordinary car behind you starts flashing lights and has a siren
I can buy both on ebay.

They drive right behind you aggressively, then drive past you and in front of you.
You stop behind them

How do you know you aren't about to be carjacked?
Should you even stop? Maybe call a local station to see can they be identified?

Simply drive to the nearest Garda Station if in doubt, and if you get any guff from them when you arrive, if you have done nothing wrong! Inform the duty Sergeant or Station Inspector of the incident. Make a complaint to the Garda ombudsman for the fear for your life and property and threating behaviour and abuse of powers by the Gardai following you!

At the very least such a complaint on a Garda's record even if its not investigated and prosecuted, will seriously damage that thugs career prospects!

I know of such a thug doing similar acts on duty, now he's a van driver!:mad:

Know your rights and use them!;)