Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Pope UK visit mega discussion thread.

Options
1…89111314…20

Comments

  • Options
    #302
    Prof.Badass
    Registered Users Posts: 2,931 ✭✭✭Prof.Badass


    Yes, but in this case the mob mentality is helping to destroy irrationalism so I'm actually kinda enjoying it :P.


  • Options
    #303
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Biggins wrote: »
    If his religious conviction was so strong then - why, O' why didn't he just try at least to get away, walk, run, anything - at any stage - to get away from involvement in the Nazi organisation.
    Instead he jumped in deeper and deeper and with the best involved in it!
    Something about the whole mess does not sit right with me and its seems with many.

    A lot of Germany's best, bravest and brightest apparently couldn't summon up the courage to do likewise. Why the demand on a kid to have done so?


  • Options
    #304
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,193 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    davrho wrote: »
    By your posts? How else?

    Well, i get that.

    But please explain to me how i have been ignorant please?


  • Options
    #305
    DOC09UNAM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,305 ✭✭✭DOC09UNAM


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    Well, i get that.

    But please explain to me how i have been ignorant please?
    By explaining your thoughts, and using evidence to prove it, DUH!!


  • Options
    #306
    veritable
    Registered Users Posts: 308 ✭✭veritable


    Galvasean wrote: »
    The health service is getting loads of flak in the media at the moment in realtion to child abuse.

    I'm sorry, Mod, but BS. Compare this level of "flak" against the flak the church has gotten and continues to get. Respectfully, they don't compare.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #307
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,193 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    DOC09UNAM wrote: »
    By explaining your thoughts, and using evidence to prove it, DUH!!

    Damn! I really must learn to follow a criminal institution without questioning them and completely ignore every bit of news about their wrong-doing!


  • Options
    #308
    Max Power1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,272 ✭✭✭✭Max Power1


    Tristram wrote: »
    Do you think the criticism of the pope is over the top? Yes.
    FYP

    The guy is the head of an international paedo ring, yet he has the gall to compare people who dont accept that some 1500 year old book contains the answers to life, with the Nazis?

    What a fcuktard tbh!


  • Options
    #309
    _feedback_
    Registered Users Posts: 4,269 ✭✭✭_feedback_


    prinz wrote: »
    I never suggested he had plans to do anything of the sort. I made clear what I though should be done.

    Eh, you did.
    prinz wrote: »
    I don't 'defend' anyone convicted of child abuse. It's only common sense that if you are sacking one person for x issue, you make sure the person you replace them with is different.


    prinz wrote: »
    You made leap from 'defending the Pope' to defending child abuse.

    IMO, if you defend him, you defend child abuse. As, he is refusing to oust the bástards that were involved.


  • Options
    #310
    DOC09UNAM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,305 ✭✭✭DOC09UNAM


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    Damn! I really must learn to follow a criminal institution without questioning them and completely ignore every bit of news about their wrong-doing!

    Damn right sir, damn right, ignorance is bliss after all.


  • Options
    #311
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    prinz wrote: »
    A lot of Germany's best, bravest and brightest apparently couldn't summon up the courage to do likewise. Why the demand on a kid to have done so?
    You have a point and a very valid one. (I give credit where its due)

    Its been argued by commentators that (and this is an open area too) somehow his family managed to get the boy in with the best of the best of the Nazi movement and those intermingled with the same ideology within the church too, that they could if they had such that influence and ability, to see that their son could have taken an alternative route.
    Its a paradox from the past that can't be proved either way but if his family could/did have an ability, to have a better advantageous position of power and influence through family and/or friends, etc - there might have been alternative routes to take for our then young pope.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #312
    Dr Strange
    Registered Users Posts: 3,427 ✭✭✭Dr Strange


    Biggins wrote: »
    ...
    Instead he jumped in deeper and deeper and with the best involved in it!

    ..

    What do you mean? Drafted into a reserve Luftwaffe unit and having had biology and history lessons by a rather mediocre figure when it comes to Nazi standards means he was now involved very deeply with the "best" in the party and her politics? If that is what you are saying than you are incorrect. Is that what you also call "on public record" meaning that if it has been published in a newspaper than it is on public record and must be 100% correct? My problem with the article which you Summarised in your earlier post is that there are many factual inaccuracies regarding the organisational set-up of party, paramilitary and military sections of Nazi Germany. If it had been reported without resorting to qualifying remarks such as "zealous", "stamped with Nazi emblems" etc it may have more weight.

    I wouldn't blame anyone who has had only a fleeting knowledge of German history during WWI and WWII to take everything in that article as gospel but that doesn't make it less incorrect and agitatory.


  • Options
    #313
    _feedback_
    Registered Users Posts: 4,269 ✭✭✭_feedback_


    With all these going ons, I can't decide whether to go to Saturday evening mass this week, or take in two early on Sunday morning. Decisions decisions . . . .


  • Options
    #314
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11346001
    Five men have been arrested in London by the Metropolitan Police in relation to a potential threat to Pope Benedict XVI's visit.
    The arrests were made at 0545 BST in London after counter-terrorism officers received intelligence of a potential threat.

    Apparantly they work as bin men!

    Bin Laden reincarnated!"


  • Options
    #315
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Preusse wrote: »
    What do you mean?...

    Let me put it this way. If he somehow managed to "fail" his exams or do badly just enough in them, he might not have come to the attention of those that were seeking new faces to fill other ranks.
    Sadly (as it turned out for him) he excelled in his topics.

    If I didn't want to advance within something I considered bad or evil, the last thing I would try and do would be to be one of the best and stand out.
    I'd keep a lower profile - but thats just me and its hypothetical because what's done is done.


  • Options
    #316
    admiralofthefleet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,515 ✭✭✭✭admiralofthefleet


    if he comes here ill make a citizens arrest, watch this space


  • Options
    #317
    Einhard
    Registered Users Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭Einhard


    I think just about anyone can be a legitimate target for criticism, and the CC in general, and the pope in particular (as Cardinal Ratzinger) have handled child abuse scandals woefully over the years, and much of the anger and condemnation on that alone is justified. However, when I see placards stating that he the world's most evil person, that he is a closet Nazi, that he is a despicable human being etc etc, I just roll my eyes and sigh. The premier of China, the Russian president, the Iranian political elite have all visited the UK and other parts of Europe in the past few years, and there has been nothing similar to the hysteria of those protesting against the pope. While many protestors have legitimate issues, it seems that a fair proportion are the usual rent-a-mob who only ever protest against easy targets, and pillars of the Western establishment. Unfortunately though, in all the cat calling and jeering of the crusties, the issues of the genuine protestors can get drowned out.


  • Options
    #318
    optogirl
    Registered Users Posts: 2,979 ✭✭✭optogirl


    prinz wrote: »
    I asked for cases involving the Pope directly.


    Pretty much all of the cases that have been brought to light in the past 30 years involve Ratzinger

    The Vatican's handling of accusations against priests has given free rein to predators who might have been stopped had the cleric in charge of the Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith (the authority over sexual abusecases) been more principled. But Ratzinger was in charge for two decades before becoming pope, and as a direct result of his disregard for their welfare, hundreds of innocent children were victimized by priests. He may indeed be contrite now, but he can not no more be trusted to address the suffering it was within his power to prevent, than he can be trusted to absolve himself from the sin of his complicity in it. The pope may be heeding the "wake-up call," now, but he offers the victims of his negligence too little, too late. Had the cardinals who protected and enabled pedophile priests been more scrupulous and "Christlike" in addressing the scourge of clergy abuse scores of children would have been spared.


  • Options
    #319
    orourkeda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    admiralofthefleet wrote: »
    if he comes here ill make a citizens arrest, watch this space

    No You wont


  • Options
    #320
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    admiralofthefleet wrote: »
    if he comes here ill make a citizens arrest, watch this space

    It'll be a state visit, he'll enjoy the comfort of diplomatic protection.


  • Options
    #321
    Einhard
    Registered Users Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭Einhard


    admiralofthefleet wrote: »
    no. he is a nazi animal who is responsible for abuse because he covered it up

    He's not a Nazi. We're all animals.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #322
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    elviscostello wrote: »
    Eh, you did.
    IMO, if you defend him, you defend child abuse. As, he is refusing to oust the bástards that were involved.

    What in that suggests the Pope is planning on sacking anyone? I said it's common sense. Common sense to me. Correcting misconceptions about his past =/= defending child abuse. Again ridiculous leap in logic. Nowhere have I ever defended child abuse. I also said IMO he should accept the resignations and anyone involved should face justice. Wtf? :confused: Somehow that's now defending child abuse? See how ridiculous these jumps are?
    Biggins wrote: »
    Its been argued by commentators that (and this is an open area too) somehow his family managed to get the boy in with the best of the best....

    It's a pity then that his family failed to save a close relation from being murdered by the Nazis due to having Downs Syndrome.


  • Options
    #323
    Oranage2
    Registered Users Posts: 11,128 ✭✭✭✭Oranage2


    If I email the Pope calling him a pr*ck will i be banned from the Vatican?

    .........................................Because thats a price I'm willing to take!


  • Options
    #324
    Rabble Rabble
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,367 ✭✭✭Rabble Rabble


    The Nazi’s versus the Catholic church? The Nazi’s only lasted a dozen years and they got their ass handed to them in a high hat. Catholic church has been, has a far more prosperous and prestigious record of murder and torture and tyranny and oppression and nonsense. Not to mention the kid f*cking, and they’re still around and popular than ever. I’d be far more afraid to hear someone go, “You know that new Nazi…he used to be a pope!”

    Is that from an Englishman? Surely the British Empire is the most extirminatory empire the world has ever seen?

    The Nazis are like choir boys comapred to the British Empire.

    What the Pope actually said was that the Nazis ( whom he called Atheists) killed the Faithful, which is true.

    It doesnt work with the British Sectarian view of history, but Naziism ( largely a protestant heartland ideology in Germany) was very anti-Catholic - killing most of the Catholic Church in Poland.


  • Options
    #325
    Einhard
    Registered Users Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭Einhard


    Prof.Badass wrote: »
    Yes, but in this case the mob mentality is helping to destroy irrationalism so I'm actually kinda enjoying it :P.

    Irrationalism Vs Irrationalism: The Faceoff!!


  • Options
    #326
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    optogirl wrote: »
    Pretty much all of the cases that have been brought to light in the past 30 years involve Ratzinger. The Vatican's handling of accusations against priests has given free rein to predators who might have been stopped had the cleric in charge of the Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith (the authority over sexual abusecases) been more principled. But Ratzinger was in charge for two decades before becoming pope, and as a direct result of his disregard for their welfare, hundreds of innocent children were victimized by priests. He may indeed be contrite now, but he can not no more be trusted to address the suffering it was within his power to prevent, than he can be trusted to absolve himself from the sin of his complicity in it. The pope may be heeding the "wake-up call," now, but he offers the victims of his negligence too little, too late. Had the cardinals who protected and enabled pedophile priests been more scrupulous and "Christlike" in addressing the scourge of clergy abuse scores of children would have been spared.

    I agree 100%.


  • Options
    #327
    Ickle Magoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,485 ✭✭✭✭Ickle Magoo


    I'm not sure I'd ever call criticism levelled at someone complicit in child rape irrational tbh - each to their own, I guess. :confused:


  • Options
    #328
    orourkeda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    Oranage2 wrote: »
    If I email the Pope calling him a pr*ck will i be banned from the Vatican?

    .........................................Because thats a price I'm willing to take!

    Firewalls. Are you actually going to the vatican anytime soon?


  • Options
    #329
    Dr Strange
    Registered Users Posts: 3,427 ✭✭✭Dr Strange


    Biggins wrote: »
    Let me put it this way. If he somehow managed to "fail" his exams or do badly just enough in them, he might not have come to the attention of those that were seeking new faces to fill other ranks.
    Sadly (as it turned out for him) he excelled in his topics.

    If I didn't want to advance within something I considered bad or evil, the last thing I would try and do would be to be one of the best and stand out.
    I'd keep a lower profile - but thats just me and its hypothetical because what's done is done.

    That's one way of looking at it, agreed, but this is with the benefit of hindsight. Nobody can say how someone would act at the age he was at. The ranks would have been filled by all in the class at that time, Towards the end of the war there was no "elite" of students chosen to fight in the different units, everyone was drafted in, no matter what the age.

    Also, remember, you said he was near legal age but that had no meaning in Germany at the time because all children from a certain age on "belonged" to Hitler, that was made clear by the ceremonies where parents actually "handed over" their children to Hitler (the State and Party) to educate and train up to and until after their military training and compulsory service in one of the armed forces branches.


  • Options
    #330
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    prinz wrote: »
    It's a pity then that his family failed to save a close relation from being murdered by the Nazis due to having Downs Syndrome.
    Sadly true but then we all know how unfortunate people so inflicted were treated by the then state Party.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #331
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Ickle Magoo wrote: »
    I'm not sure I'd ever call criticism levelled at someone complicit in child rape irrational tbh - each to their own, I guess. :confused:

    Depends what the criticism is. I think Einhard's piece above hit the nail in the head. Very valid arguments and criticisms are getting lost in a sea of nonsense and hysteria.


Advertisement