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Pope UK visit mega discussion thread.

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    #362
    orourkeda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    scientific1982 wrote: »
    Prove that a pasta monster god is a delusion.

    I never mentioned a pasta god so kindly stick to the issue and answer the question I asked.


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    #363
    pts
    Registered Users Posts: 576 ✭✭✭pts


    Ha ha the pope comparing atheists to Nazis, that's is rich. How would he know though? He's never been an atheist....... :D


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    #364
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    orourkeda wrote: »
    Did he abuse anyone?
    Sexually abuse. No, of course not.
    orourkeda wrote: »
    I can understand peoples viewpoint that he is part of a cover up but to suggest that he is responsible for it is a touch ott

    He was personally involved in the cover up of child abuse. Because of his action (action, not inaction), children were abused who would not have otherwise been. So its not ott to hold him responsible.

    The pope has apologised for the actual abuse, but has never properly addressed the cover up.


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    #365
    Donkey Oaty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    If there are any bored tabloid journalists reading this thread, here's an exciting headline for you: IRISH LINK TO POPE TERROR SUSPECTS!

    Boring reality: The bin company that they work for in London, Veolia group, operates the Luas.


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    #366
    Dr Strange
    Registered Users Posts: 3,427 ✭✭✭Dr Strange


    Biggins wrote: »
    No argument there.
    It was one messed up situation.

    I hope why though its clear why some have reservations towards the present pope, one who is disliked and certainly distrusted.

    The Rome organisation certainly could have and should have selected a better alternative choice in pope - but given their leaning towards a direction the cardinals wanted their org' to go, they selected him!

    That alone makes many uneasy and could be indicative.


    That's certainly up to individual opinion, I just cannot and will not judge a man who did what millions of other youths and men have had to go through during that time. You see, leaving all the rhetoric in the diverse newspapers aside, what it boils down to is that he had a pretty "regular" German childhood during that time, going to school (albeit a prestigious one), going through the ranks of his "scout groups" (because that is what the Jungvolk and Hitler Youth was seen as by most parents and kids from the outside), drafted into the reserve from where he finally fled.

    Look at author Gunther Grass for example, he has had similar journey, though he ended up in a SS unit towards the end. In his last book you can read all about how that actually happened and how he also managed to leave it (fled). There is so much more to it than just saying, yeah he could have avoided this and that. Yes, again, looking back now there were things that could have been done differently but you could say that about all of us, everyone of us can probably look back to something in our past and say: if I had done such and such I would be in a different situation now.

    The problem with the Catholic church and Nazi Germany is that the Nazis tolerated the two or three main Christian directions (faiths? if that is correct) because they were a means to their own end. It was the same idea behind what Christinaity did to the old pagan shrines of worship, place your own symbols on the old places and that will slowly but surely "convert" the heathens.

    In the case of National Socialism it was just to play ball with Catholic and Protestant (Lutheran) church. The Lutheran church was even more accepted by the SS and other organisations than the "Popish" church. In the Wehrpass of soldiers (military passport) for the SS the most common term under "Religion" was "Gottgläubig" which meant "Believer in God" as an alternative to stating their original religion such as roman catholic or lutheran (evangelical).

    The idea was to get rid of religion as such by and by after the war was won. Replace belief systems in a god by belief in the State. If religion proofed to be necessary in some form or other than "Himmler's crack-pot occult ideas" would be shaped into a pseudo-pagan religion which adhers strongly to the principles of National Socialism. That is why Himmler had quite a substantial research fund for the Ahnenerbe project.


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    #367
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    orourkeda wrote: »
    I never mentioned a pasta god so kindly stick to the issue and answer the question I asked.
    You just did.

    And its The pasta god, not a pasta god. Show a bit of respect.


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    #368
    c_man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭c_man


    The Pope a "scapegoat"? Lol.

    I don't agree with the criticism leveled at him for his involvement with the Hitler youth and the Luftwaffe. He was only a kid. Even if he was willing at times, I think that's excusable for any Germans raised in such an extreme totalitarian state, where people were bombarded with propaganda day and night for years.

    I will criticise him for other stuff, and make no apologies for it. I have no time for anyone involved in the cover-up of child rape.

    I've actually found the whole thing vaguely amusing. The Cardinal referring to Britian as a third world country (mystery illness, don't they supposedly have some rules against lying?), Benny and the Nazi jibe... More to come!


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    #369
    optogirl
    Registered Users Posts: 2,979 ✭✭✭optogirl


    orourkeda wrote: »
    I would agree with that wholeheartedly.

    Belief in any given religion should be based on the religion itself and not on the actions or inactions of its leaders

    So we should respect people who believe homosexuals, people who use contraception, people who have sex before marriage are sinners and condemned to hell. Oh, not forgetting their contempt and disregard to women and children. Sorry, I don't think I am insulting them by saying their doctrine is fairytales, bigotry and chinese whispers.

    At least the Pasta God's teachings are of tolerance and respect. Apenne.


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    #370
    Donkey Oaty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    orourkeda wrote: »
    I've asked this question before.

    Prove to me that god is a delusion.

    I see that you are searching for spiritual answers, and I would like to help. However, I have no wish to disrail this thread.

    Perhaps you could provide a link to a post where you have outlined exactly what you mean by "god" and what sort of evidence or reasons you have for such a belief?


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    #371
    orourkeda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    dvpower wrote: »
    You just did.

    And its The pasta god, not a pasta god. Show a bit of respect.

    Get a f***ing life


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    #372
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    Oranage2 wrote: »
    If I email the Pope calling him a pr*ck will i be banned from the Vatican?

    .........................................Because thats a price I'm willing to take!
    Ever been to the Vatican? Spectacular. Move the Catholics out and it'd be even better.


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    #373
    Memnoch
    Registered Users Posts: 4,276 ✭✭✭Memnoch


    orourkeda wrote: »
    Get a f***ing life

    You kind of asked for it by demanding proof that god is a delusion. How about you prove that the pink elephant floating above me and singing 'Fight for this love,' in a Simon Cowell voice is a delusion.


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    #374
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    SuperInfinity wrote: »
    Well of course we don't need him, but if people want to start a group that believes that the moon is made of cheese and have one leader who they all believe is God and worship and give all their possessions to, that's their perogative to do so in a free society.

    Imposing your beliefs, whether they be atheism or some other thing, is never a good idea.... although I do agree that at least atheism doesn't try to use fear like "if you don't agree with this you'll burn in everlasting hell".
    I think the point is that many Catholics are starting to ask the question.


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    #375
    orourkeda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    Donkey Oaty wrote: »
    I see that you are searching for spiritual answers, and I would like to help. However, I have no wish to disrail this thread.

    Perhaps you could provide a link to a post where you have outlined exactly what you mean by "god" and what sort of evidence or reasons you have for such a belief?

    I was just responding to the suggestion that god is a delusion.


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    #376
    optogirl
    Registered Users Posts: 2,979 ✭✭✭optogirl


    orourkeda wrote: »
    Get a f***ing life


    no sense of irony here man, no?


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    #377
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    orourkeda wrote: »
    I've asked this question before.

    Prove to me that god is a delusion.
    Prove to me that God isn't a delusion.

    There is far more evidence supporting there being no god than evidence supporting there being a god.


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    #378
    orourkeda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    Memnoch wrote: »
    You kind of asked for it by demanding proof that god is a delusion. How about you prove that the pink elephant floating above me and singing 'Fight for this love,' in a Simon Cowell voice is a delusion.

    This kind of bullsh*t does nothing for an argument.


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    #379
    orourkeda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    optogirl wrote: »
    no sense of irony here man, no?

    It's ironic now is it?


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    #380
    optogirl
    Registered Users Posts: 2,979 ✭✭✭optogirl


    orourkeda wrote: »
    This kind of bullsh*t does nothing for an argument.


    Yeah it does. It made me laugh. Something the Catholic Church has never done (apart from it's indirect influence on Father Ted)


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    #381
    orourkeda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    OisinT wrote: »
    Prove to me that God isn't a delusion.

    There is far more evidence supporting there being no god than evidence supporting there being a god.

    I cant. No more than you can prove that god doesnt exist.


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    #382
    aligator_am
    Registered Users Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭aligator_am


    Personally I think the Catholic Church was founded NOT on the belief of spreading the message of the bible but was founded with the prime intention of taking the IMO good message that Jesus teaches in the new testament and twisting it so they could dominate all around them. They depended on the general populace being illiterate, giving mass only in Latin and threatening them with fire and brimstone if they didn't cough up the dosh to keep the Church ticking over, no wonder the Protestants broke away, can't really blame them in all honesty.

    Personally, I think the greatest enemy of the Catholic Church is education, and I know some will say ah yeah but don't they run schools and whatnot, fair point, but you look at the decline of the Church and as education levels rise, so do the amount of free thinkers, which the Church truely dreads, how dare those dirty peasants question OUR VERSION of the word of God...

    As for this twit of a Pope, I think he just has a bee in his bonnet as people no longer fear (at least in the West) of being burned at the stake for questioning the Church, for thinking that Earth insn't the centre of the universe etc. I think the Church miss the good ol' days when they were right, and it was illegal to own a copy of the Bible to even question what they were spouting.

    This pope should fcuk off back to Emerald City and get back in behind the curtain, I'm sure there's more uneducated souls that need harvesting.


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    #383
    optogirl
    Registered Users Posts: 2,979 ✭✭✭optogirl


    orourkeda wrote: »
    It's ironic now is it?


    Yes - that you think it's nonsensical to say that there is NO God and nonsensical to say that there is a Pasta God. Neither have been proved or disproved.


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    #384
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    orourkeda wrote: »
    I never mentioned a pasta god so kindly stick to the issue and answer the question I asked.
    I believe that a Flying Spaghetti Monster created the universe after drinking heavily one evening.

    Prove this this is incorrect.


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    #385
    pts
    Registered Users Posts: 576 ✭✭✭pts


    orourkeda wrote: »
    This kind of bullsh*t does nothing for an argument.

    The whole point is that demanding proof that Yahweh doesn't exist is pointless as he has been defined in such a way that he can't be disproved.


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    #386
    dr.bollocko
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 35,943 Mod ✭✭✭✭dr.bollocko


    orourkeda wrote: »
    Get a f***ing life

    Please refrain from this kind of stuff in future.
    Attack the post not the poster.
    Fair warning.


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    #387
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    It's like asking people to prove MMR Jab doesn't cause autism. You can't prove a negative. You can confirm something definitely does something, not the opposite. But it sure sells newspapers!


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    #388
    orourkeda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    optogirl wrote: »
    Yeah it does. It made me laugh. Something the Catholic Church has never done (apart from it's indirect influence on Father Ted)

    If you need pink elephants singing Cheryl Cole song to bolster your stance on the catholic church ot doesnt say much for your argument.


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    #389
    Donkey Oaty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    Memnoch wrote: »
    How about you prove that the pink elephant floating above me and singing 'Fight for this love,' in a Simon Cowell voice is a delusion.

    You are not alone, my friend. I see it too, except the voice is that of Louis Walsh.

    Die, heretic!


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    #390
    RockinRolla
    Closed Accounts Posts: 575 ✭✭✭RockinRolla


    orourkeda wrote: »
    Kind of you to dump on the religious beliefs of millions of people

    I refer to it as mental illness.


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    #391
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    faceman wrote: »

    but as I said, its easier to pick on a scapegoat which in this case, is an old man.

    ...he was essentally in charge of discipline for the church for 20 odd years...If you stepped out of line doctrinally, you were gone. If you molested a child...well, whats the rush.


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