Shotgun Identification (BSA)

padmundo

I have recently acquired a BSA side by side, double barrel 12ga shotgun (not one of your new non BSA made, BSA shotguns but an original English made job) and I would like to learn more about it.

My question is can you identify it using the serial number and put an age on it?

My father bought it in the early eighties and it wasn't new then. It's nicely engraved and the engraving includes a flying duck on either side. I have no idea of much else about it other than it's been rarely used and well maintained.

I'd like to learn more about it before I actually attempt to use it...

ormondprop

how ever old you think yours is i bet you mine is older:D i posted some pics of it a while back because i was going to refinish the stock but decided against it incase i make a mess of it because even though its in rough enough nick its a lovely game gun, nice and light and easy to carry

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055940162

i'd be interested to see has anybody info on them aswell as i'd like to know how old it is, especially due to the fact that my father bought it second hand more than thirty years ago

padmundo

Well now, that gun is certainly older than mine. It's a very different shape altogether too. Mine is also surprisingly light and pointable. Also a good game gun.

I must post up some pics of mine when I get a chance.

ormondprop

no i didnt the father wasnt too keen on me having a try at it either so i said i'd leave it and get somebody to do it when funds allow

padmundo

No point in ruining the gun especially if it's in good working condition. Don't forget about it either though... it would scrub up nicely I'd imagine.

ormondprop

behind all that dirt and scratches there could be a lovely shotgun haha

just found this link which might be useful
http://www.shootingtimes.co.uk/sportinganswers/111176/Are_you_able_to_date_my_BSA_shotguns.html

padmundo

I found that page myself but I'm at a loss to explain where they got that information from bar having access to BSA manufacturing records. I left a comment there too in the hope that someone might post information on the manufacturing records. It's currently awaiting approval.

padmundo

Found this article actually: http://www.shootforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=9677

tac foley

padmundo wrote: »

I have recently acquired a BSA side by side, double barrel 12ga shotgun (not one of your new non BSA made, BSA shotguns but an original English made job) and I would like to learn more about it.

My question is can you identify it using the serial number and put an age on it?

My father bought it in the early eighties and it wasn't new then. It's nicely engraved and the engraving includes a flying duck on either side. I have no idea of much else about it other than it's been rarely used and well maintained.

I'd like to learn more about it before I actually attempt to use it...

Sir - The BSA shotgun was introduced in 1920 and, over the next 19 years, more than 48,000 were built in eight different models of 12-bore.

Some 40,000 were sold in the first five years of production.

This might help a liittle to tie down the date - 'No.37473 was despatched on on July 30, 1923...'

The definitive book of BSA commercial firearm manufacture 1906 - 2000 is called 'The Golden Century' - although it is out of print now it can be ordered here - http://www.jgairguns.biz/subpage110.html

tac

padmundo

Thanks for that... it's not in the library catalogue here so I will have to order the book by the looks of things.

tac foley

padmundo wrote: »

Thanks for that... it's not in the library catalogue here so I will have to order the book by the looks of things.

Happy to be of some help to my distant relatives across the sea. ;=)

Being useful is a lot better than being used any day.

Best

tac

mrbrianj

I'am pretty happy with my BSA. Really well made gun, its reputation has unfairly been dented when the brand name was sold on. But the pre world war 2, Small Heath guns are good and well worth looking after. I had to put one of the rubber recoil sleves on to help lenghten the stock, fits better at last. Apart from the slightly short (for me) stock the gun was top notch when I got my hands on it.

I would love to know the thinking behind the serial no.s - they dont seem to be in date ascending order.

tac foley

mrbrianj wrote: »

I would love to know the thinking behind the serial no.s - they dont seem to be in date ascending order.

Ah, right, you've noticed......[sigh]

BSA was somewhat, ah, inventive, when it came to the little matter of serial numbers, particularly when actions and barrels were made in two different locations, even within the same factory and under the same roof. Certainly, as you've discovered, their shotguns were made like that for reasons that are now inexplicable, since there is nobody alive who had anything to do with the making of a single one of them.

Sadly for future historians, this 'random numbers' game was also played with their .22 Martini-action target rifles from around 1952 to the end of production. I have two MkII Internationals - one a left-hand action, the other a right-hand action. They have different serial numbers on the actions than on the barrels. This is because the factory batch-made actions, and serialled them, and in a different location batch-made barrels, and serialled them. Heavy barrels, light barrels, intermediate weight barrels......all of them.

With absolutely no regard to matching them up.

This is because every one of these fine guns was made to order, and the builder simply picked an action from one hole, and a barrel from another, and screwed them together to make the rifle, with, you've guessed it, ANOTHER serial number.

Sometimes.

Sometimes not.

So we use the serial on the receiver for licensing purposes.

Sometimes.

Hope this helps a little.

tac

mrbrianj

I had a look at bsaog.co.uk, on the shotgun section it gives some info on brimingham proof marks.

My gun was proofed marked between start of July 1931 and end of june 1932

padmundo

ormondprop wrote: »

behind all that dirt and scratches there could be a lovely shotgun haha

just found this link which might be useful
http://www.shootingtimes.co.uk/sportinganswers/111176/Are_you_able_to_date_my_BSA_shotguns.html

I came across this thread on another forum earlier today whilst digging for info again. I also noticed you had placed a similar post on that site also in a separate thread. I hope it helps.

http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/topic/266541-help-identifying-an-old-bsa-shotgun/

Double Barrel

padmundo, ormondprop,


"British Gunmakers" by Nigel Brown give serial numbers of rifles and air rifles and BSA product codes.

The book states that John Knibbs International, Hillside, Shawbury Lane, Shustoke, Warks B46 2RR [ph 01675 481006 and fax 01675 481984] has the surviving records for BSA shotgun, rifle, and air rifles

Knibbs wrote a book on the history of BSA called the Golden Century after he retire from BSA.

Contact John Knibbs http://www.ukgunroom.com/dealer-directory/viewDealer.jsp?id=330

tac foley

Very informative post, Sir. I have three BSA .22LR rifles, and would find such a publication very useful.

tac

Double Barrel

padmundo,

Is your gun's engraving anything like this:

Double Barrel

You are welcome Tac,
Good luck

padmundo

Double Barrel wrote: »

padmundo,

Is your gun's engraving anything like this:

Exactly like that...

I just had it apart there to have a look at the proof marks etc. It's definitely post 1904 and pre 1954. Couldn't find the cross swords/saber date stamp though. Although when I look into the part where the barrel latches into the action I could make out a 951 on the bottom of the recess. Dunno if that is a year or not.

padmundo

Decided to look for that image being used on some other site and found this...

http://www.ivorybeads.com/site/default.asp?Page=54&FSL3_SL_8=english&FSL3_RUNSEARCH=TRUE&FSID3=2158