Racist Dog?

Mr. Manager

Hey All,

I know the title might seem a little funny but lately we've been having a bit of bother with our Newfie (Kya). I have a 3 year old Newfie with great temperament. Loves to play with our 7 month old pup. They get on great, no hassle what so ever. A problem has been creeping up lately and it's only getting worse. . .

We live in an apartment complex and my next door neighbors are black along with another couple that live at the back of our apartment. Every time Kya hears them walking by, talking or when one opens the door, balcony door she starts barking and growling. Yesterday I had the 2 of them out to go toilet in the complex and my next door neighbor came home and with that Kya ran over to him and began to bark (not very aggressively) at him. It looked like she had no intention of causing harm as her tail was wagging all the time. Plus, I figure if she was going to attack she would have by now.

As a result, she has to be kept on the lead at all times until we can establish what exactly her problem is and then solve it. Even when we're out walking them (on leads) and she see's someone who is of dark complexion she has a right tug on the lead and lets out a bark or two. Again, it doesn't appear aggressive but it looks terrible when you have a 9 stone dog trying to have a go.

It makes me feel terrible when I come out my front door and one of their kids (mid teens) is hanging around playing ball or something and she starts to act aggressively, I say stuff like "don't worry she's very friendly" - which she is - but obviously it's still quite threatening having a dog of that size try and assert her dominance.

We really don't know what to do about it...

belongtojazz

Dogs can take against something they consider "unfamiliar" for no apparent reason. One of my dogs heads women wearing a head scarf (we used to live in a predominantly asian area and a lot of women covered their heads) my other dogs hates people wearing hoodies (but is fine with scarves :rolleyes:)

My advise would be to ask your neighbours, if you can, to come over to your dog with it's favourite treat. My trainer always recommended coming into the dogs side without making eye contact and being very calm and quiet while offering the treat. I saw her do this with dogs who hated men and also children and it worked wonders.

I agree it can make you feel awful but it is solvable so long as the person who your dog reacts to is willing to help.

mike65

Its about whats familiar or not, this applies as much to dogs as humans. My advice is to get your neighbours and the dogs to meet properly for a 10 min play on neutral ground, once they have had sniff and given their approval (!) all shall be fine.

Mr. Manager

My neighbors aren't very friendly. . . and the barking dogs isn't helping matters so I don't think they'd "pop in" to give a helping hand. Not really sure who to turn to. If we go to a dog trainer and explain the situation it will mean nothing until she hears/sees/smells a black person and I wouldn't feel comfortable sending her to a black dog trainer (No, not in the racist sense).

I've tried walking her around by their apartment to see if her reaction could be tamed with treats but she just completely ignores them and focuses on barking at their door

belongtojazz

hhmm not an easy one then, might still be worth approaching them and explaining your dog reacts unfavourably sometimes and you would really appreciate their help in solving this issue, you could coach it in terms of helping them also so that your dog doesn't worry them.

If that doesn't work, is there any other black people in your area who might be responsive to helping you?

jack presley

There's a great episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm when Larry has a dog and it get accused of being racist.

Mr. Manager

belongtojazz wrote: »

hhmm not an easy one then, might still be worth approaching them and explaining your dog reacts unfavourably sometimes and you would really appreciate their help in solving this issue, you could coach it in terms of helping them also so that your dog doesn't worry them.

If that doesn't work, is there any other black people in your area who might be responsive to helping you?

I have a friend from school but I haven't spoke to him in months and would feel very strange asking him to pop down so I can see how my dog reacts in his presence. Guess I'll have to try and charm the neighbors into calling round

belongtojazz

It really isn't easy is it

I have still not resolved the scarf issue with my jack as I haven't yet found any Muslim woman able to help, all the Muslim women I worked with were terrified of dogs, thankfully where I am now it is not such an issue. I have tried asking people to wear a scarf so I can acclimatise her but they all laugh at me and reckon as she's so small I've nothing to worry about, but just cus she's small doesn't mean it's ok for her to be worried about something

Good luck with it

ISDW

I remember reading something years ago, that dogs can be 'racist' because they have difficulty reading the dark skin tone, not just with humans, but with dogs as well. Apparently black dogs get attacked more than lighter coloured dogs.

There is also the issue of smell, are your neighbours Irish, or first generation immigrants do you know? Do they eat West Indian or African food? I lived in London for a long time, in a very multi-cultural society, but noticed that people of different racial backgrounds might have different smells about them.

Although, it might not actually be because your neighbours are black, but maybe because of the attitude of your neighbours. If they are not particularly friendly, maybe the dog has picked up on something thats happened in the past?

Sorry, I didn't quote, but the poster about the muslim women they know being scared of dogs, there was a very interesting discussion on another forum about the dog's history within the muslim faith, explained to me why most muslim people don't like dogs, and won't allow them in their homes.

belongtojazz

ISDW wrote: »

Sorry, I didn't quote, but the poster about the muslim women they know being scared of dogs, there was a very interesting discussion on another forum about the dog's history within the muslim faith, explained to me why most muslim people don't like dogs, and won't allow them in their homes.

That was me I have had quite a few discussions with some of my Muslim colleagues regarding their attitudes towards dogs, it is amazing the differences between cutures:D

I hadn't thought of the issue around smells or possible mistreatment/negative response but that is a distinct possibilty and worth exploring.

mike65

jack presley wrote: »

There's a great episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm when Larry has a dog and it get accused of being racist.

Remnds me about the acclaimed cult director Sam Fullers White Dog about an animal that is trained to attack black skin and the dogs "deprogramming" of same by a black man. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0084899/usercomments

lorebringer

ISDW wrote: »

I remember reading something years ago, that dogs can be 'racist' because they have difficulty reading the dark skin tone, not just with humans, but with dogs as well. Apparently black dogs get attacked more than lighter coloured dogs.

This! Dogs can have a hard time reading the facial expression on the faces of people with darker skin and often take it as negative or are aprihensive, thus bark. One of mine has this problem - he's fine up close but barks etc. when a reasonable distance away.

Probably, the only solution to the barking problem is exposure to people with dark skin so that she realises they are not a threat - but I can understand how difficult it would be to get people to aproach with such a large dog barking at them!

Qualitymark

May I suggest that you carry treats, and when you see your neighbours or their children *but before your dog starts barking and acting up*, you give a treat, so the dog forms an association between seeing these people and nice things?

Then quickly walk your dog past the people and away, ignoring any nonsense.

At the moment, the dog may be scenting nervousness and reacting to that.

(Met a woman in the park the other day with a very nervous young Aller that she was giving treats to as I passed with my dog. I called my dog (leashed) to heel, and went quickly past, realising that the woman was using treats to train her dog not to be nervous/aggressive with other dogs. Met her a few days later, and her dog was visibly calmer, and trotted happily past us.)

Discodog

Cereal Rapist wrote: »

I wouldn't feel comfortable sending her to a black dog trainer (No, not in the racist sense).

Why not ?. Seems like a very good idea. I would chat to a few trainers & behaviourist & see if any of them can help. You might find one who is black or has black friends/associates who can assist.

The Muslim faith could be deemed racist if you are dog in that one breed is excluded. To a Muslim dogs are un-clean unless it is a Saluki which is revered & specifically mentioned in the Koran. A Saluki is allowed to share a Muslim's home & his food.

In the Middle East a Saluki is seen as a status symbol & you cannot buy a Saluki in some areas - you have to be given one. One of my neighbours lived in the Middle East as her husband was the Irish Ambassador. They were presented with a Saluki as part of his appointment.

David Matthew

My mother and father lived in Zambia in the 70's, and they were given dogs that we're trained to be aggressive towards people of a certain colour Clearly they can be trained to discrimate on this basis, but I doubt your dog has inherited any such tendencies. It could be lack of familiarity, scent-based; whatever it is, I really sympathize, as it sounds like a difficult situation.

That episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm was hilarious btw.

planetX

My dog used to bark at deaf people using sign language. It was very embarrassing, as we used to regularly pass a group on our weekend walks. Same dog also became aggressive to all little white dogs, that was due to one incident when she was young. The rest of her life she hated white dogs.

Qualitymark

planetX wrote: »

My dog used to bark at deaf people using sign language. It was very embarrassing, as we used to regularly pass a group on our weekend walks.

But at least they couldn't hear him.

nlgbbbblth

check out Sam Fuller's White Dog film from 1982.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_dog

Bing_IRL

I reckon it's the protective side of your Newfie coming out. We've got a 3 year old Newfie and he's very aware of noises anywhere close to the house also. When we take him to my other halfs house he stays up all night "protecting" the house. He developed a particular hatred for their neighbours dogs after they attacked one of my girlfriends parents dogs. Comes home after the weekend with all bloodshot eyes . I'm beginning to think that Newfies hold grudges

magentas

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYaeglZUAsc&feature=related

have a look at this clip from family guy where brian the dog is barking at the black guy...very funny!

Mr. Manager

ISDW wrote: »

There is also the issue of smell, are your neighbours Irish, or first generation immigrants do you know? Do they eat West Indian or African food?If they are not particularly friendly, maybe the dog has picked up on something thats happened in the past?

I've not noticed any smell of food from their home. That was my first guess, that there was a different odor than they are used to. Be it from the neighbors themselves or the food which they eat.

As they are not the friendliest and most outgoing neighbors I have no idea where they are from. I do however think that Kya picks up on there lack of socialising with her...

Qualitymark wrote: »

May I suggest that you carry treats, and when you see your neighbours or their children *but before your dog starts barking and acting up*, you give a treat, so the dog forms an association between seeing these people and nice things?

Then quickly walk your dog past the people and away, ignoring any nonsense.

At the moment, the dog may be scenting nervousness and reacting to that.

As we have a 7 month old puppy we always carry treats, even if we're only bringing them to the green for a few minutes to do their business. I'll take note of that and try and grab her attention with treats and then maybe she will begin to associate my neighbors with good times.

Discodog wrote: »

Why not ?. Seems like a very good idea. I would chat to a few trainers & behaviourist & see if any of them can help. You might find one who is black or has black friends/associates who can assist.

At the moment I'm not happy handing my dog over to a trainer who is of dark complexion as I feel she will act very aggressively. Now I know that I'm handing her over to a Dog Trainer who is trained for said situation but I'm sorry, there is no way you can be trained to stop a 9 stone dog attacking you. I would rather try some other alternative like above ^^^ before I bring her to a specialist.

Bing_IRL wrote: »

I reckon it's the protective side of your Newfie coming out. We've got a 3 year old Newfie and he's very aware of noises anywhere close to the house also. When we take him to my other halfs house he stays up all night "protecting" the house. He developed a particular hatred for their neighbours dogs after they attacked one of my girlfriends parents dogs. Comes home after the weekend with all bloodshot eyes . I'm beginning to think that Newfies hold grudges

She is extremely protective of my gf. My gf got her as a pup of 6 weeks and she sticks to her like glue! Very defensive if there is a knock on the door and either of us go to answer it. I think she just likes to be around one of us all the time making sure we're ok

mosi

Vagrants, junkies, winos - they all seem to be on my little guy's hit list. There are times when we have been either walking along or sitting outside a cafe and he goes mad barking at them. Luckily he doesn't bark at every person of said description, just some of them. I think that must be a smell thing going on. Also, he is a rescue who used to be allowed to roam around a very rough part of Dublin so maybe there is something in his past that contributes to this.

seamus

ISDW wrote: »

Sorry, I didn't quote, but the poster about the muslim women they know being scared of dogs, there was a very interesting discussion on another forum about the dog's history within the muslim faith, explained to me why most muslim people don't like dogs, and won't allow them in their homes.

Any links by any chance?

There are a good few muslim families in my area and they're all terrified of dogs - the boys, girls, mothers, fathers, everyone. It doesn't seem to be confined to African or Asian muslims - I've had plenty of Africans and Asians say hi to my dog, it seems to be muslim-specific moreso than race-specific.

This was what I was thinking when the OP first posted - dogs will pick up on hostility or fear towards them. Some dogs will act with aggression or barking, other dogs will ignore it.

magentas

Many Muslims believe the saliva of dogs invalidates the ritual ablution performed before prayer. For this reason, it has become a cultural norm for individuals not to have dogs in their houses -- not because the dog is hated

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_animals

There's loads about this if you google Muslims & dogs. My brother-in-law is muslim and when I asked him about it before he said for religious reasons (see above) and basically dogs are seen as dirty animals

I've never seen him around dogs, they live in London and he hasn't met mine yet!

kylith

One of mine had a run in with a drunk Chinese man in my house once (he wanted to cuddle her when she didn't want to be cuddled) and she was nervous of Asians for a while after that.