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Sonnen tests postive for PED's after 117
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New (I think) vid of Sonnen saying Silva asked for mercy "My ribs are hurting"
Sonnen sounds like a dik at the start of the vid but then okay at the end. Wow, whats the deal with this dude!
"Silva, you are not qualified to make Frank Mir a sandwich!!!" hahahahaha
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MrStuffins wrote: »........... by cheating.
So you keep saying, he still handed Silva a beating, its not like chael bulked up like crazy or he changed any part of his game dramatically or used dirty tactics (apart from cheating before you say it)
I dont understand why he'd "cheat" for Silva and not for marquardt etc which was only a short time ago, looked the very same and fought pretty much the same type of fight, knowing full well he was going to be tested, just seems odd. 0 -
So you keep saying, he still handed Silva a beating, its not like chael bulked up like crazy or he changed any part of his game dramatically or used dirty tactics (apart from cheating before you say it) I dont understand why he'd "cheat" for Silva and not for marquardt etc which was only a short time ago, looked the very same and fought pretty much the same type of fight, knowing full well he was going to be tested, just seems odd.
Chances are he was using PED's then aswell just didn't get caught. Chael Sonnen was a very mediocre fighter before he beat Marquardt, who had previously demolished him before in training although that was a long time ago. The guy pulled out 2 epic performances out of nowhere, and even if his excuse is logic his reputation is tainted forever.
I'm always preaching how steroids are alot more common in MMA than people think, there is alot of stuff out there not being detected because the commision haven't already identified it so nothing shows up abnormal. Even Nate Diaz had a recent interview where he said that people should be surprised when a fighter is clean and that everyone uses some sort of enhancer. Some may not think of him as a very credible source but BJ Penn previously mentioned how common enhancers are in MMA.0 -
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So you keep saying, he still handed Silva a beating, its not like chael bulked up like crazy or he changed any part of his game dramatically or used dirty tactics (apart from cheating before you say it) I dont understand why he'd "cheat" for Silva and not for marquardt etc which was only a short time ago, looked the very same and fought pretty much the same type of fight, knowing full well he was going to be tested, just seems odd.
You can say all you want, but he cheated. He used drugs he was not permitted to. These drugs are not permitted because they unfairly enhanced his performance, hence the name of this particular group of drugs.
At the end of the day, the drugs helped him get the upper hand. A clean Chael Sonnen perhaps would not have done what the cheating Chael Sonnen did on the night. For all his posturing, he knew that he wasn't good enough, so he took drugs to even it up.
He still lost.
Pity they haven't invented a drug to get out of the Triangle Choke eh?0 -
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MrStuffins wrote: »Well then you might wanna rephrase this question, or actually have a little Google search.......
Also
Did MMA only spring into existence in 2007?
He also has losses to Terry Martin (a VERY average fighter), Babalu (a "Nearly Man"), Trevor Prangley (i shouldn't have to say it), Forrest Griffin (i'll give him a pass for this one), Yamamiya (a guy with 26 professional losses)......... oh, and Jeremy Hore THREE TIMES!
I've no idea why you have no understanding of PEDs nor do you have any knowledge of Chael Sonnen before 2007.
Well I left out since 2006* Which should've been obvious, sorry Mr. Sherdog fight tracker... Apparently, he beat Trevor Prangley as well, that's like saying GSP isn't a great fighter since he lost to Matt Serra.
If you're such a big fan of the history of fighters, then you'll see Yamamiya has beaten Nate Marquardt, yeah, that must mean Nate is useless too.
As for Jeremy Horn, he's drawn with Dan Severn, beaten Chuck Liddell, Forrest Griffin, David Loiseau.. And he's well past his prime now, a la Chuck Liddell. Except Horn has had over 100 fights..
Babalu, show me one fight he's lost that wasn't against some of the best in the world.. Apart from Jason Lambert... Actually, after all that, I like using Sherdog stats to help my argument
I don't understand the first part of that post at all? Care to elaborate?
As for the PEDs, want to tell me how they made him so much better according to you?
I'm sorry, I'm willing to bet that you had never heard of him before the Marquardt fight, maybe the Maia fight..nor do you have any knowledge of Chael Sonnen before 2007.0 -
I meant since 2006..TheProdigy wrote: »At MW you mean?
He also lost to Forrest Griffin, Trevor Prangley, Terry Martin, Jeremy Horn 3 times and he also lost to some Japanese guy. A few respected fighters but not world beaters by any means.
I'd agree with most of this statement. Even if he appeals and wins his case he'll still be tainted as a steroid user.. Probably will be looked upon like Josh Barnett is if he's found guilty which would just make it worse.. If Brock was caught for roids I'd wait until the case was finished before saying anything since I know virtually nothing about Lesnar, I'm indifferent to him.. Whereas if Overeem was done for them, or Mir I doubt I'd be surprised..Chael Sonnen's reputation will be tainted forever, and so will his performance at 117 which people admired so much. He is the laughing stock of MMA and any credibility he had is now gone. Just because you may be a fan of him shouldn't change your perspective of the situation, if Brock was caught for roids how would you view that? Chael looks extremely foolish considering how he acted, he is an embarrassment to MMA.
Once again, I agree with everything you've said, except for the last 6 words 0 -
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Yeah, I come across as such a hard man, sorry...MrStuffins wrote: »hahahaha, typical keyboard warrior
"I bet i had heard of that fighter before you have" :rolleyes:
Not really, I've just been following Chael for a while and hate when people make useless accusations about him being an ok fighter when he's proven he's a number one contender?
If you read my last two posts you'll see I said I forgot to put in since 2006...The point i was making is, your arguement is ridiculous. it was also inaccurate as you said "His only losses" when they were not his only losses.
Well, apparently since you know how they helped Chael become so much more skilled than he was, you still haven't told me yet...PEDs are Performance Enhancing Drugs, they enhance your performance, the clue is in the name. They are illegal for this reason.
if you need to ask how they improve your performance, then your argument is already invalid.
Go do a bit of research.
Since you seem to be more in the know then most of the MMA world I'd like to know how you know it wasn't in the medicine he was taking? As I've stated, people should wait until the appeal (If there is one) is over..0 -
Gunsfortoys wrote: »Some people can't except the truth.
Silva went in to the sonnen match with a rib injury while sonnen had PEDs to assist him. Jesus denial is an ugly thing.
Sorry, what am I not 'accept'ing? And what exactly am I denying? 0 -
ScareGilly wrote: »Yeah, I come across as such a hard man, sorry... Not really, I've just been following Chael for a while and hate when people make useless accusations about him being an ok fighter when he's proven he's a number one contender?
You also seem to want to defend him when he is clearly in the wrong.If you read my last two posts you'll see I said I forgot to put in since 2006...
Yeah that was convenient eh?Well, apparently since you know how they helped Chael become so much more skilled than he was, you still haven't told me yet...
Since you seem to be more in the know then most of the MMA world I'd like to know how you know it wasn't in the medicine he was taking? As I've stated, people should wait until the appeal (If there is one) is over..
I'm not in the know more than any of the MMA world. but i seem to be less ignorant than yourself. He failed an A and B test. He's been banned and is considered guilty.
Let me ask you this, if after appeal comes and goes and Sonnen was to be found still guilty, or if he admitted taking PEDs, what would opinion be?
You obviously think it's ok for athletes to cheat in order to win! You obviously think it's ok to take illegal drugs and to break the rules and the law in order to win. Or is your ignorance of PEDs just blinding you?0 -
ScareGilly wrote: »that's like saying GSP isn't a great fighter since he lost to Matt Serra.
GSP did go and avenge his losses thoughMrStuffins wrote: »Let me ask you this, if after appeal comes and goes and Sonnen was to be found still guilty, or if he admitted taking PEDs, what would opinion be?
Didn't he admit before the event to some commissioner or someone connected with the UFC that he had taken something but wouldnt say what?0 -
Devastator wrote: »Didn't he admit before the event to some commissioner or someone connected with the UFC that he had taken something but wouldnt say what?
He did indeed
While he was giving his sample, he admitted to the representative from the CSAC that he had would fail his test and had taken something.
It's cut and dry as far as most people are concerned. I've no idea why others feel that taking PEDs is ok, especially after they need to ask time and time again how they work! it boggles the mind!0 -
Once again, we'll have to wait until the hearing to see that, I'm not defending him, nor am I supporting him in his choice to possibly have taken PEDs.MrStuffins wrote: »You also seem to want to defend him when he is clearly in the wrong.
Actually, I think you'll find it was quite inconvenient as now you won't believe me..Yeah that was convenient eh?
Well apparently, you already know that he's taken PEDs whereas really, the only person that really knows if it was something in his medicine or PEDs is Chael Sonnen..I'm not in the know more than any of the MMA world. but i seem to be less ignorant than yourself. He failed an A and B test. He's been banned and is considered guilty.
Let me ask you this, if after appeal comes and goes and Sonnen was to be found still guilty, or if he admitted taking PEDs, what would opinion be?
You obviously think it's ok for athletes to cheat in order to win! You obviously think it's ok to take illegal drugs and to break the rules and the law in order to win. Or is your ignorance of PEDs just blinding you?
Obviously, my opinion of him will drop if he's found guilty, and if he has taken PEDs I hope his ban is upheld unlike Sherk's. How does it look like I think it's ok for athletes to cheat, stop being an idiot.. I've said I'm not commenting about it until after the hearing, so stop being ignorant and wait for the hearing..
Well he hasn't really had the chance to avenge most of them.. Apart from Trevor Prangley and Paulo Filho(That fight was one of the strangest fights ever though, so he never really got the chance against a fit Filho). Wasn't able to beat Jeremy Horn though.. Would've had his chance to avenge his loss to Anderson had this not come up..Devastator wrote: »GSP did go and avenge his losses though
Yes he did, which is why I'm not commenting on it until after the hearing, sounds a bit fishy to me..Didn't he admit before the event to some commissioner or someone connected with the UFC that he had taken something but wouldnt say what?
You still haven't told me how they helped Chael to become a more skilled fighter. By your reasoning I could take tons of PEDs and I'd be a world-class fighter..MrStuffins wrote: »It's cut and dry as far as most people are concerned. I've no idea why others feel that taking PEDs is ok, especially after they need to ask time and time again how they work! it boggles the mind!0 -
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Ok, one possible scenario: Chael is able to train for four hours a day (for example) without any PEDs. He is able to train for six hours a day with PEDs. That's 50% more time to prepare for Silva and to become more skilled
Just in general, people seem to forget that steroids can help you train more effectively for longer periods of time. Sometimes it's just thought that they do their work during the actual fight
I was waiting for Mr.Stuffins to say that
As for clearing out the division, he still has to get through Belfort, and of course his most recent loss Okami.. Then he has Belcher (Another excellent wrestler) if he comes back.. Only beat Dan Henderson because he was stupid enough to trade with him..
And of course, he never fought Paulo Filho..0 -
ScareGilly wrote: »I was waiting for Mr.Stuffins to say that
As for clearing out the division, he still has to get through Belfort, and of course his most recent loss Okami.. Then he has Belcher (Another excellent wrestler) if he comes back.. Only beat Dan Henderson because he was stupid enough to trade with him..
And of course, he never fought Paulo Filho..
Lol at your Dan Henderson remark :pac:
"Sure, didn't i only lose because yer man punched me in the face and put me to sleep?"
Paolo Filho is a shadow of a man who shouldn't be a MW anyway. (plus, they're friends aren't they?)
But this is all besides the point. The man is the best in the world, you may deny it, but you're in the VAST minority.
As the saying goes, there's always one!
Back on topic, Sonnen will lose his appeal. I'm sure he will have something to say for himself, but the fact of the matter if knowingly took the drugs. Or even if he didn't, he knew before the fight they were in his system.
He's a cheat, plain and simple! (oh, and he still lost, so Silva is still No.1, drugs or no drugs ) 0 -
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I'll put it this way, If he was training with Greg Jackson he'd have won the fightMrStuffins wrote: »Lol at your Dan Henderson remark :pac:
"Sure, didn't i only lose because yer man punched me in the face and put me to sleep?"
He was number 2 MW in the world before he went down that bad road, yet Silva wouldn't fight him a la Chuck vs. Ortiz.. And why shouldn't he be a MW?Paolo Filho is a shadow of a man who shouldn't be a MW anyway. (plus, they're friends aren't they?)
Still yet to be seen, as I've said, he has at least 2/3 more fights at MW to prove it.. And a rematch against a 'clean' Chael Sonnen.But this is all besides the point. The man is the best in the world, you may deny it, but you're in the VAST minority.Back on topic, Sonnen will lose his appeal. I'm sure he will have something to say for himself, but the fact of the matter if knowingly took the drugs. Or even if he didn't, he knew before the fight they were in his system.
I haven't said he'll lose or he'll get off, I merely said I don't wish to comment on it until the verdict is out..0 -
ScareGilly wrote: »I'll put it this way, If he was training with Greg Jackson he'd have won the fight
I'll put it this way, if my Auntie had balls she'd be my Uncle!He was number 2 MW in the world before he went down that bad road, yet Silva wouldn't fight him a la Chuck vs. Ortiz.. And why shouldn't he be a MW?
Erm.... you haven't been watching closely enough. He missed weight for the Sonnen Rematch, then then fought at LHW AND THEN HEAVYWEIGHT!Still yet to be seen, as I've said, he has at least 2/3 more fights at MW to prove it.. And a rematch against a 'clean' Chael Sonnen.
Again, you haven't been watching closely enough. 12 straight wins, a UFC record. Wins over the creme de la creme of the division.
He's considered, in all camps apart from GSP's mother, to be the P4P best in the world.
But you're right, it's yet to be seen :rolleyes:0 -
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Did you see the Sonnen rematch? He was in rehab for months before it.. After the fight he was in rehab for a year. This was when he completely lost it, really disheartening seen as he was ranked Number One Middleweight at one stage..MrStuffins wrote: »Erm.... you haven't been watching closely enough. He missed weight for the Sonnen Rematch, then then fought at LHW AND THEN HEAVYWEIGHT!
As for fighting at LHW, and then HW, this was all due to that. You'll see that he fought Denis Kang recently at MW and has no problem getting to MW.
I'd only count 6 out of the 12 as the creme de la creme, although it'd probably only be 4 or 5...Again, you haven't been watching closely enough. 12 straight wins, a UFC record. Wins over the creme de la creme of the division.
All camps? After that last performance I was of the opinion he'd dropped down a few rankings, GSP has consistently beaten the top of the WW division, bar a loss to Serra and Matt Hughes(Strongest fighter in the UFC? And has defended his title 7 times too;)). I'd also believe most people would have Jose Aldo at number 1 or 2...He's considered, in all camps apart from GSP's mother, to be the P4P best in the world.
Yes, if he beats Belfort, Okami, and a 'clean' Chael Sonnen I'll agree with you..But you're right, it's yet to be seen :rolleyes:0 -
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MrStuffins wrote: »Right, so you don't think Silva is the No.1 MW in the world? Then who is?
And before you say Sonnen, don't be ridiculous!
I don't see how saying Sonnen is the best MW in the world is being ridiculous, wasn't he beating the man everyone ranked as number 1 for 23 minutes?
Anyways, I'm going to say like I always say, there are no real "best in the world" as there will usually always be a fighter that can beat him... Which Sonnen almost did. If Yushin beats Marquardt then beats Silva does that make him the best in the world? But he's lost to Chael Sonnen Rankings in MMA are fairly useless due to this concept I believe.. 0 -
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