begining to see a trend

Stab*City

seannash wrote: »

ah cmon,so if you paid into see(insert your favourite artist/dj) and they just announced themselves and then put on a cd and walk off you would be happy with that?

Well sean i think i know enough about music/djing to avoid these types.. And as a matter of fact in nearly 17 yrs djing and 10 messing around with production and 19 clubbing i have yet to come across this scenario.. but i have been in situation where dj's/artists have just been crap and i wished they had put on a cd!

seannash wrote: »

i quoted your post which said


it was in context to turntables getting cheaper and cd players coming onto the dj scene.
producing music,yeah use whatever is possible but as far as djing goes this hippyesque statement of"its all about what comes out of the speakers" should stop.

it will never be okay for an act to just hit play on a cd and stand back if you paid to see them perform even if what comes out of the speakers is awesome

I never said it was ok to do this.. i said it dont matter what tools you use as long as the music is good.. which is an undeniable argument not a hippy statement..

Stab*City

jtsuited wrote: »

And like I said, I have never heard a good track (what I deem good of course) made in reason.
And cd sound quality is still regarded by many as being sub par. Vinyl outlasted the cd precisely because what was coming out of the speakers was more enjoyable to a significant number of people.

Obviously if we are talking about sound quality.. but i thought we were talking about the actual tune..

jtsuited

electrogrimey wrote: »

Don't want to quote the whole thing, but anyway.

I'm talking about guys producing tracks (I know from chatting to these guys) with just a DAW, a pair of headphones, in some cases not even a MIDI keyboard, and getting releases on labels like Turbo Records, Anabatic, Southern Fried Records, and Fake Blood (DJ Sneak)'s new label, Blood Records.

I'm ashamed to say I've only heard of two of those labels, and if Southern Fried are 'respected' then either myself or yourself are waaay out of the loop. PRobably me, but the last time I heard southern fried stuff it was some poxy electrohouse from about three years ago (when electrohouse as a whole wasn't actually that poxy).

Doubt we'll find a definitive answer so I'll take your word on the other ones.

Jev/N

jtsuited wrote: »

99.999% of the music I make I keep to myself. Because I don't want to put it in the world.

Not even on soundcloud. If people are in my house I'll show them stuff as a bit of a laugh if they want to hear it.

But this conscience seems to genuinely be lost on a whole generation of people who think that 'you've got to put it out there' is a valid concept. It's a retarded concept when you think about it.

This is a great point; applies to my situation very well. Maybe it's just the fact that I'm a perfectionist in anything I do (I don't mean this in a pompous or arrogant way, it's actually more of a disadvantage to any sort of creative process).

I think many of the new producers out there are very twitchy and eager about getting anything out they can. I've been dabbling with different styles of music for the last year or so, albeit on the back-burner for the last while, but I've never been happy enough to 'announce' anything per se. I have intended on sending some private soundcloud links to veteran-producer friends but the quality hasn't even reached that stage yet in order to distribute some sketches

Stab*City

seannash wrote: »

yes a crap track in any DAW is a crap track my point is people who dont have a real interest will not be able to make a crap track in logic because they wouldnt dedicate the time it takes to learn it.

but in ableton the loop feature allows people to bang together a track in no time once you learn how to warp.

im not bashing ableton im saying its definitely contributing to the amount of ****e out there because it is so easy to loop samples together.people see this one feature and abuse it to make "tracks"

Your totally right sean it is easy to get something going in abelton but i find this a major + not a -, i just think its so cool that a guy who maybe is only 17-18 and has the ability to make a good track can sit down and use ableton straight away without having to spend ten yrs learning what every knob does..

seannash

Stab*City wrote: »

Well sean i think i know enough about music/djing to avoid these types.. And as a matter of fact in nearly 17 yrs djing and 10 messing around with production and 19 clubbing i have yet to come across this scenario.. but i have been in situation where dj's/artists have just been crap and i wished they had put on a cd!




I never said it was ok to do this.. i said it dont matter what tools you use as long as the music is good.. which is an undeniable argument not a hippy statement..

so if the equipment is an ipod playing a premixed mix its alright.

im not bringing in your personal experience but it is an idealistic statement to say its what comes out the speakers that matters because its clearly not.

you havent come across this scenario because thank god it hasnt happened but if people start to follow your logic it will happen and it wont matter

but i have been in situation where dj's/artists have just been crap and i wished they had put on a cd!

this just means there a crap dj,no reason to eleiminate the dj and replace them with a cd.

there ultimately needs to be some aspect of "playing" involved in a perfromance for a dj.they can use whatever tools they want to play but there needs to be a line with how detatched they can become from the process

jtsuited

Jev/N wrote: »

This is a great point; applies to my situation very well. Maybe it's just the fact that I'm a perfectionist in anything I do (I don't mean this in a pompous or arrogant way, it's actually more of a disadvantage to any sort of creative process).

I think many of the new producers out there are very twitchy and eager about getting anything out they can. I've been dabbling with different styles of music for the last year or so, albeit on the back-burner for the last while, but I've never been happy enough to 'announce' anything per se. I have intended on sending some private soundcloud links to veteran-producer friends but the quality hasn't even reached that stage yet in order to distribute some sketches

good to hear. fair play. dissatisfaction is probably the most significant telltale sign of talent.
Constant enthusiasm and over-ambition are symptoms of the opposite

jtsuited

electrogrimey wrote: »

The 'equally more good tracks' thing was you just misreading me, I didn't mean an equal amount of good tracks to **** tracks, I know there's probably hundreds of times more bad tracks than good. I meant 'but equally' in the 'also' sense.

With all due respect, it's you who is misreading me. Go read again what I said.

edit: please notice how I said 'as there was before'.

seannash

Stab*City wrote: »

Your totally right sean it is easy to get something going in abelton but i find this a major + not a -, i just think its so cool that a guy who maybe is only 17-18 and has the ability to make a good track can sit down and use ableton straight away without having to spend ten yrs learning what every knob does..

this is a great feature but its this feature that ultimately leads people to release these ****e tracks.

i include myself in that too by the way.i did it(some would say i still do )

Stab*City

Jev/N wrote: »

This is a great point; applies to my situation very well. Maybe it's just the fact that I'm a perfectionist in anything I do (I don't mean this in a pompous or arrogant way, it's actually more of a disadvantage to any sort of creative process).

I think many of the new producers out there are very twitchy and eager about getting anything out they can. I've been dabbling with different styles of music for the last year or so, albeit on the back-burner for the last while, but I've never been happy enough to 'announce' anything per se. I have intended on sending some private soundcloud links to veteran-producer friends but the quality hasn't even reached that stage yet in order to distribute some sketches

Same boat here..

Stab*City

seannash wrote: »

so if the equipment is an ipod playing a premixed mix its alright.

im not bringing in your personal experience but it is an idealistic statement to say its what comes out the speakers that matters because its clearly not.

you havent come across this scenario because thank god it hasnt happened but if people start to follow your logic it will happen and it wont matter



this just means there a crap dj,no reason to eleiminate the dj and replace them with a cd.

there ultimately needs to be some aspect of "playing" involved in a perfromance for a dj.they can use whatever tools they want to play but there needs to be a line with how detatched they can become from the process

I agree sean a dj should dj not just play music.. but wether it be a house dj who mixes every 8 mins or a turntablist who cant leave a record alone im not going to listen if i dont want to and either should you.. if you were in that situation you have a right to be upset if you paid for a performance and got a mix cd.. name and shame the dj in question..

BaZmO*

Jev/N wrote: »

This is a great point; applies to my situation very well. Maybe it's just the fact that I'm a perfectionist in anything I do (I don't mean this in a pompous or arrogant way, it's actually more of a disadvantage to any sort of creative process).

I think many of the new producers out there are very twitchy and eager about getting anything out they can. I've been dabbling with different styles of music for the last year or so, albeit on the back-burner for the last while, but I've never been happy enough to 'announce' anything per se. I have intended on sending some private soundcloud links to veteran-producer friends but the quality hasn't even reached that stage yet in order to distribute some sketches

Reminds me of a great quote by Paul Ambroise Valery, "An artist never really finishes his work; he merely abandons it."

jtsuited

BaZmO* wrote: »

Reminds me of a great quote by Paul Ambroise Valery, "An artist never really finishes his work; he merely abandons it."

Is that who said it? We've been crediting that quote to everyone (from mozart to da vinci) over on the music production forum for years like a bunch of clueless eejits.

leggo

seannash wrote: »

would you be happy to go see a dj and have him stick on a premade cd and leave the booth for the full 2 hours.after all its whats coming out the speakers that matters

You're missing the point of DJ-ing entirely with that statement.

The reason THAT wouldn't work isn't because the mix is pre-made...it's because the person involved isn't taking the crowd into account in a live performance. A pre-made mix could work PERFECTLY one week and then not at all the next...with a similar type of crowd who have the same taste.

The PROCESS isn't what matters. It's whether the end product CONNECTS. This whole thread has moved onto production moreso than DJ-ing...and, as far as that goes, the cream WILL definitely rise. It doesn't matter if the artist lucks his way into a 5-record deal...if the end product doesn't connect and sell then they're ****ed.

DJ-ing is the same. It doesn't matter how you get there...once you get there. That might upset many people on here...but if it does then people need to get in touch with the real world. Jedward are famous recording artists. Deal with it.

I think it's a shame that people get so fixated with the process vs. product argument. They're directing energy (which could have genuine raw talent behind it) in completely the wrong direction. They're wanting to have a full house so badly they're not realising that they could have had a royal flush in their hands the whole time.

At best, it's musical snobbery or trying to validate mistakes that they don't even realise they're making. At worst...it's wasting countless hours of their lives on fool's gold.

eeloe

jtsuited wrote: »

"So, you see loads of amazing 17/18 year old guys making amazing tracks and pushing the boundaries"

Where??????????? Really, I'm curious.

Reuben Keeney

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=115122538543082#!/reubenkeeney?ref=ts
http://soundcloud.com/reubenkeeney

As someone said to me only last night "this kid is gonna be ****in' HUGE"

jtsuited

eeloe wrote: »

Reuben Keeney

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=115122538543082#!/reubenkeeney?ref=ts
http://soundcloud.com/reubenkeeney

reuben uses logic.

eeloe

Is that the key to his success?

jtsuited

eeloe wrote: »

Is that the key to his success?

eh no.

eeloe

Now mr T, this ISN'T a dig at you personally, but from some what I've been reading online all over the place.......

If ya wanna succeed as a Dj/producer now a days, ya have to use an over priced medium to play.

Abe don't send off your productions.....

jtsuited

eeloe wrote: »

Now mr T, this ISN'T a dig at you personally, but from some what I've been reading online all over the place.......

If ya wanna succeed as a Dj/producer now a days, ya have to use an over priced medium to play.

Abe don't send off your productions.....

I cannot make head nor tail of that post.

electrogrimey

This thread is getting hard to keep track of. Ok...

@Jeff, apologies, I missed your 'average quality' bit of that post, so in that sense, you're right. But in fairness, it's only the top few percentage of tracks made that get signed and thus get into the public eye. Southern Fried Records do/did release 'poxy electro' stuff, but the artists on the label were headlining festivals all around Europe, so the label was well respected for that kind of music. I know that doesn't justify the label, but it's the only way I can think of explaining how big a label it is.

jtsuited

electrogrimey wrote: »

so the label was well respected for that kind of music. I know that doesn't justify the label, but it's the only way I can think of explaining how big a label it is.

but respected is the key issue. I would think respected would also mean some degree of credibility and approval from respected peers.

I just want to hear a track I think is good made by some 17/18 year old only using ableton. Because all I've ever heard from that demographic is horrific electrohouse.
Now you can say, well it's just a matter of taste etc. and the proof is in the fact that their acts headline festivals all over Europe.......but if you did I'd then point out a few facts to you......such as....

1. Charlie Sheen is the highest paid tv actor in the world.
2. Titanic and Avatar are the two highest grossing films of all time
3. George W Bush got the highest percentage of the popular vote in recent history.

People are idiots. These 3 facts prove beyond a doubt that the general public as a group are fairly retarded.

Look, all I want is for you to post something awesome by a 17/18 year old that is groundbreaking and is made entirely in ableton. I doubt I'm not the only one here who is curious about these tunes. Even if I don't like the music, surely you reckon I could at least be able to form an objective opinion of the production standard?

It would be very helpful for every user here to know what you're talking about when you mean 'brilliant music'. Those that also find it brilliant will find real weight in your argument and those that don't at least will actually know the difference in your tastes in future.

Will I Amnt

There's a lot of bitterness in this forum towards anyone who hasn't spent half their life dj'ing or producing from people who have,it's borderline childish and jealousy to think someone has no right to be getting a set in a club without putting in the years of effort,if the tunes are good and mixed well who cares??it's a business where it's all about who you know,there are some people out there banging out "their own" tracks in big clubs when really they would barely know there way around a daw,if they're happy enough to kiss ass to get there well fair play to them.some people just need to get over themselves a bit.

ianuss

jtsuited wrote: »

I'd then point out a few facts to you......such as....

1. Charlie Sheen is the highest paid tv actor in the world.
2. Titanic and Avatar are the two highest grossing films of all time
3. George W Bush got the highest percentage of the popular vote in recent history.

People are idiots. These 3 facts prove beyond a doubt that the general public as a group are fairly retarded.

Not that I disagree with anything you've said but you say 'people are idiots', and then you provide statisitics on how dumb Americans (a sub-species of human) are.

Is mise le key

jtsuited wrote: »

And like I said, I have never heard a good track (what I deem good of course) made in reason.
And cd sound quality is still regarded by many as being sub par. Vinyl outlasted the cd precisely because what was coming out of the speakers was more enjoyable to a significant number of people.

TURRICAN wrote: »

true.vinyl made the chords etc sound like there were actually instruments that could make these sounds.
digital just sounds blippy all the time.

Without a doubt Vinyl is superior.......there is harmonics created within the grooves around the needle that give it a more natural sound......i heard befoore that even on a subconcious level your brain & ear accept & interpret the sound differently than with digital sounds so you are not even aware of it but you do enjoy Vinyl being played to you more so than digital.

seannash wrote: »

there ultimately needs to be some aspect of "playing" involved in a perfromance for a dj.they can use whatever tools they want to play but there needs to be a line with how detatched they can become from the process

I do think the entire atmosphere is at its best when the DJ is playing Vinyl for not only the above reason but also it allows for the physical manipulation of the record being slowed, spun back, released & then taken off & returned to its sleeve with care really reinforces the interaction of the DJ serving up the music to the crowd.

Perhaps its is logical to assume that the DJ is in fact more on top of his game when working a tangible object that needs to be then taken off & replaced with another and this adds to the overall delivery of a great set

cambo2008 wrote: »

,if the tunes are good and mixed well who cares??.

Thats fine as long as its not substandard quality sounding & the DJ is really giving it everything he has.......from the many Raves//Cllubs i have been in over the years the main things are,

1. Sound system has to be top notch, no room for a venue you can only half hear the tunes in parts of it, 8 foot high speakers at every corner is best:D

2. I really beleive that Vinyl should be reintroduced as the medium of choice to be played in venues for the reasons i have already pointed out.(and if lads want to play around with sooftware making tracks all power to them & if they hit the nail on the head have it pressed)

3. DJ's really need to put in 100% to try & please the crowd & deliver a great set of tracks, now the mixing is obviously important to be as best it can be but i have been in many venues where it hasnt been great but as long as its not atrocious you can still have a blinder of a night.

You can lay two tracks together that just dont compliment each other & blend them perfectly but wont have that flow that is needed to make the set great & bring the crowd to a level of enjoyment, similarly you can lay two tracks together that really compliment each other & take the crowd one step further in enjoyment without nessesarily having to mix them fantasically, just dont murder them, & it will be a belter of a night.

Stab*City

jtsuited wrote: »

but respected is the key issue. I would think respected would also mean some degree of credibility and approval from respected peers.

I just want to hear a track I think is good made by some 17/18 year old only using ableton. Because all I've ever heard from that demographic is horrific electrohouse.
Now you can say, well it's just a matter of taste etc. and the proof is in the fact that their acts headline festivals all over Europe.......but if you did I'd then point out a few facts to you......such as....

1. Charlie Sheen is the highest paid tv actor in the world.
2. Titanic and Avatar are the two highest grossing films of all time
3. George W Bush got the highest percentage of the popular vote in recent history.

People are idiots. These 3 facts prove beyond a doubt that the general public as a group are fairly retarded.

Look, all I want is for you to post something awesome by a 17/18 year old that is groundbreaking and is made entirely in ableton. I doubt I'm not the only one here who is curious about these tunes. Even if I don't like the music, surely you reckon I could at least be able to form an objective opinion of the production standard?

It would be very helpful for every user here to know what you're talking about when you mean 'brilliant music'. Those that also find it brilliant will find real weight in your argument and those that don't at least will actually know the difference in your tastes in future.

Maybe not to your tastes but there is alot of stuff here:

http://abletonsummermusicchallenge.com/

For kids to be making this kind of stuff i think is brilliant.. now show me some young teens using logic to that extent. And i dont mean just one. And seeing as though this is a djing discussion show me 1 dj djing using logic?

Of course vinyl has better sound than digital tracks. But its not as accessible.. So no wonder alot of new dj's and young dj's turn to digital djing.. Turning around and looking at my €20,000 worth of vinyl i cant help but wishing i was a teen in this digital age.. maybe then i maight have a nice car or my own house.. alot easier to live with those blips with money in my pocket.. Its funny to hear "dj's" harping on about downloads killing djing these are the same guys that 10 yrs ago thought cdj's were the devils toy but now consider them "industry standard" because every major club is sponsered by pioneer.. Digital music is being played in one form or another now in every club in every city.. its actually rare these days well down this end of the country to see a dj using vinyl.. almost to a nostalgic degree..

we can go on and on about this tool being better or this format being better but at the end of the day most clubbers/music buyers judge you on the sounds you put in their ear.. its the guys sitting to the left picking holes in your set that are the only ones who care what tools you use..

I agree with you sean anyone who puts on a premixed cd and then goes off to socalise for a couple hours is not a dj.. but using a digital means of djing when the sounds are good coming out of the speakers is totally legit in my eyes..

Do you just use vinyl when you dj out sean?

hans aus dtschl

seannash wrote: »

there ultimately needs to be some aspect of "playing" involved in a perfromance for a dj.they can use whatever tools they want to play but there needs to be a line with how detatched they can become from the process

Just stepping in to add my weight to this comment.

I really believe in the above. The whole point in an art form is to struggle with a medium, to produce results.

The best drummer in the world plays drums. He/she could recreate their art with a computer easily.
The best painter in the world uses paint. They could use a computer to produce the end result.

At times, it's the imperfection in the end result that matters. The possibility of chance introduced through the medium's failings.

So this, above all else, is where digital dj'ing has its biggest failings for me.

If I can't connect with what you're doing, I'll lose some degree of interest. I've long put forward the idea that digital dj's screens should be visible to the public. Project them, whatever. The point is to get away from the "push play" notion.

That is IF the process is an artform.

If it's just the sound out of the speakers, then drag and drop to your heart's content.

For me, it's an artform.


Some people say the perfect instrument would be a direct connection to your brain waves to produce the sounds you want.
For me, I personally enjoy seeing/hearing someone struggle with their tools to create a masterpiece.

BaZmO*

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

The best drummer in the world plays drums. He/she could recreate their art with a computer easily.
The best painter in the world uses paint. They could use a computer to produce the end result.

But that's only because the drummer has learned his trade by physically playing the drums and can then transpose that knowledge to a digital format, likewise for an artist. Electronic formats aren't evil, you still need the skill to use them.

Is mise le key

BaZmO* wrote: »

Electronic formats aren't evil, you still need the skill to use them.

No they arent evil, Just for the lazy, uninspiring & sound sh.it:D

BaZmO*

Is mise le key wrote: »

No they arent evil, Just for the lazy, uninspiring & sound sh.it:D

I'm sorry I don't buy into that, in fact it's a lazy argument, and also an extremely ironic argument when essentially used to defend electronic music.

jtsuited wrote: »

Is that who said it? We've been crediting that quote to everyone (from mozart to da vinci) over on the music production forum for years like a bunch of clueless eejits.

Yeah I think it's him alright. I only know the quote from reading a John Banville book years ago where it was quoted and I thought it was very true. Don't think I've ever been 100% happy with anything I've ever done from an artistic pov, when listening or looking back I always think I could tweek it ever so slightly.

Stab*City

I played my first ableton live live gig a few weeks ago in cork and between my apc 40, the cdjs, the mixer and fx i was going full on for the whole set.. i could have done with another two hands really as i was having ideas up there of things i wanted to do but didnt have the available limbs or knobs free.. i played a good set the end result i thought and my peers thought was good..

A house dj comes on and plays vinyl his set is good.. he mixes well i like it and his peers do.. he beatmatches in the headphones and then waits...........................................................................................
......................... then he mixes in the next record.. So he is a better dj than i am because his hand touches vinyl? Utter crap.

Is mise le key

BaZmO* wrote: »

I'm sorry I don't buy into that, in fact it's a lazy argument, and also an extremely ironic argument when essentially used to defend electronic music.
.

Just to make sure here.....it is lazy to use a PC to mix tracks for you rather than trying to get the speed right yourself.

Stab*City wrote: »

A house dj comes on and plays vinyl his set is good.. he mixes well i like it and his peers do.. he beatmatches in the headphones and then waits...........................................................................................
......................... then he mixes in the next record.. So he is a better dj than i am because his hand touches vinyl? Utter crap.

No, but if you are getting the Software to mix for you yes.

You used CD's.........the Vinyl is undisputably far better to hear.

Android 666

Wow, this has really turned into a greatest hits collection of moans hasn't it?

Just a couple of things I believe:
Some 17-18 years can make good music but there's just going to an infinite amount more making shíte music.

Just because I think the music's shíte and you think it's good doesn't mean either of us is right. Music is about individual perception.

Its okay to admit to liking things other people mightn't like. I liked Avatar. I like horror movies. I love Withnail and I and I absolutely adore Le Haine. There is nothing wrong with my personal taste. It suits me just fine.

I have a set of decks and a load of vinyl. I also have two kids and limited space so unfortunately these items are residing in the attic. I liked listening to vinyl. I liked listening to CDs and I like listening to MP3s. I really don't care too much about format battles. If that's your thing that's cool but don't look down on somebody for the way they choose to listen to music. Except for Ipod headphones - those things are made by the devil.

Just because you can do loads of tricks with loops doesn't mean you have to. During a gig, have a sip of tea for a minute and let the song play by itself for a minute. It might sound good.

DJing is not some mythical task handed down by the gods, it's somebody playing some tunes they like that they think people might appreciate and reciprocate by dancing or by a show of hands. Some people are good at it, some aren't. The people that are good at it invariably practiced really hard and put some thought into structuring their set. The bad ones, eh, didn't. Some people will practice for ages and still be bad, I blame faulty genes and cowlicks that push the headphones too far off their heads.

There's some other stuff I believe but its time for a cup of tea so they can wait…

hans aus dtschl

BaZmO* wrote: »

But that's only because the drummer has learned his trade by physically playing the drums and can then transpose that knowledge to a digital format, likewise for an artist. Electronic formats aren't evil, you still need the skill to use them.

Think you may well have ENTIRELY missed the point in my post.

You know, the part where I said
"
If I can't connect with what you're doing, I'll lose some degree of interest. I've long put forward the idea that digital dj's screens should be visible to the public. Project them, whatever. The point is to get away from the "push play" notion.
"
is relevant.


I'm not against digital media. They aren't evil. My point is that the performance aspect is different. If a digital dj can show the work they're doing as they do it, it's the same thing, for me.
Pressing a few buttons synced to ableton and using fx is only half way there, for me. I ALWAYS enjoy digital sets more when I can see the screen.

If a drummer uses a computer, he's not cheating. But many of the people turning up to see/hear him will be left bored, unless he shows them what he's at.


So back to the point I WAS making: it's easy to see a vinyl or cd-based dj working (vinyl more so) and if digital dj's had the visual element of what they're doing open to them, it'd make a big difference.

Shít, it might even eradicate lazy "sync" dj's over night.

Is mise le key

Alright to summarise my view,

Working with vinyl in a Rave/Club for the punters shows more effort than allowing software to do it for you & it sounds far superior.

BaZmO*

Ah it's all a load of bollix anyway, sure you're only playing someone else's music. Guitars an Banjos are the future.

Is mise le key

BaZmO* wrote: »

Ah it's all a load of bollix anyway, sure you're only playing someone else's music. Guitars an Banjos are the future.

Good man Baz.....i havnt heard any compositions youve put together latley for the banjo.......or will you be just playing someone elses music on it:D:D

Cant remember who said it a while back but it was something like this,

'With vinyl & cd's being done away with does that not just make us all knob jockeys?'

old gregg

BaZmO* wrote: »

Ah it's all a load of bollix anyway, sure you're only playing someone else's music. Guitars an Banjos are the future.

and a bare arsed audience down on their knees squealing like pigs, HELL YEA!!:p

Scubadevils

I keep meaning to contribute to this and then change my mind on my own views, so don't bother. I'll gather my thoughts and add something at some stage, might be next year though with my under-capacity brain.

In essence though, I agree with you all, but agree with none of you. :pac:

Good to see some debate though!

seannash

had a conversation on ichat with an 18 year old today.it went like this


i just wana flashdrive that ****.. and plug it in haha

yeah the new ones can do that alright but like i said you could try traktor and two turntables

as in .. scratching ones?

well no
oh yeah actual turntables
technics

yea.. wats the big difference?
that and a pioneer

one plays vinyl
the other doesnt
you do know what a vinyl deck is right

like for those big old black cds?

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
oh god i feel old

hahaa wat did i do.....im right.. right?

he then went on to say

its just CDJs''' that look different


was pretty funny

Is mise le key

Here you are being sarcastic Sean at the end saying 'Was pretty funny'

.....im right... right?

Android 666

seannash wrote: »

had a conversation on ichat with an 18 year old today.it went like this

Was this before or after you asked him to call you teacher and get him to tell you what a bad boy he was.

seannash

Android 666 wrote: »

Was this before or after you asked him to call you teacher and get him to tell you what a bad boy he was.

ha ha i actually do teach him production:)

but i dont get him to call me teacher








yet:)

eeloe

jtsuited wrote: »

I cannot make head nor tail of that post.

Must apologise, i was half asleep and tapping away on the phone while in bed, sorry for the spelling mistakes!

It's supposed to read...

It appears the only way one can become successful is by playing Vinyl and producing in Logic.

jtsuited

eeloe wrote: »

Must apologise, i was half asleep and tapping away on the phone while in bed, sorry for the spelling mistakes!

It's supposed to read...

It appears the only way one can become successful is by playing Vinyl and producing in Logic.

where did anyone say that??

eeloe

No one said it directly, but it's coming across like that.

anytime someone mentions ableton it gets thrown around that logic is much better.

Anytime someone mentions a controller or a laptop, vinyl gets praised....

seannash

eeloe wrote: »

anytime someone mentions ableton it gets thrown around that logic is much better.

well it is:)

seriously i think alot of people ae missing the point.people were saying that ableton is a huge contributing factor to the amount of new bad producers

eeloe

seannash wrote: »

well it is:)

seriously i think alot of people ae missing the point.people were saying that ableton is a huge contributing factor to the amount of new bad producers

It may very well be....and im currently bidding 150 buckeroos on logic at the moment on adverts to give it a try!
Cant see it being that much better tho to be honest!

seannash

eeloe wrote: »

It may very well be....and im currently bidding 150 buckeroos on logic at the moment on adverts to give it a try!
Cant see it being that much better tho to be honest!

cool,let us know what you make of it.if you need a hand gimme a pm

jtsuited

eeloe wrote: »

It may very well be....and im currently bidding 150 buckeroos on logic at the moment on adverts to give it a try!
Cant see it being that much better tho to be honest!

Of the people who got into music production through ableton (of whom there are many) who I've known to give logic a spin to see what all the fuss was about from my experience most of them have genuinely been blown away by how much better it was.

Amongst the discourse about DAW's the terms simple and easy are often treated as the same thing. As someone who's been compulsively messing around with all of the DAW's for years I think that they are very very different concepts indeed. Ableton is simple and it's easy to do things if you're going about things the ableton way (which is a fairly limited working approach in my experience).

Logic is infinitely complex yet paradoxically easy to use. And allows far more compositional approaches because of this complexity imo.

At the end of the day, in my experience, there are only a few ways to work with ableton, and a million and one ways to work with logic.

Also we really are getting into arguments about the process versus the end result, and I think we have to remember that.
However, my argument is that often the tools effect the process so much that the end result is often severely compromised by using such tools.

Also important to remember, is that plenty of my favourite producers use ableton. And use it well. It suits their methodology and have somehow not fallen into the 'bad ableton habits' that 99% of producers who use ableton seem to fall into.

Every time I've bitched about any piece of software or equipment, some brilliant artist reveals it as their go-to weapon of choice. All this variation is a good thing imo, and variation and complexity are two concepts I believe are severely restricted by the ableton production process (in general).