Games forum re-merge

johnny_ultimate

thewheel2.0 wrote: »

@Retro why don't you just do it and see what happens? Do you have the power to do it?

Only admins hold such responsibility.

Personally, I don't think it should be rushed into, and come up with a workable solution between ourselves before implementing anything. What do our CMod overlords think?

Mr E

CMods are reading this thread with interest.

Fnz

Won't somebody please think of the... rate at which new topics will be ejected from the front page?

Particularly if there will be an increased number of 'stickys', along with evergreen and 'flavour of the quarter' threads.

Penn

Fnz wrote: »

Won't somebody please think of the... rate at which new topics will be ejected from the front page?

Particularly if there will be an increased number of 'stickys', along with evergreen and 'flavour of the quarter' threads.

Then we'll get a bunch of new threads for games which already have threads but have slipped more than 2 pages.

After taking what people have said into account, perhaps some forums could be gotten rid of. So I'd say a cleanup would be in order, but not a mega-merge.

Dr Bob

Jazzy wrote: »

stay on the course Ned! You're doing super!

Damn it! I was going to come up with a proper serious response but that Simpson's quote always makes me laugh!

Seriously though , do things need to be changed? maybe just have a yearly cull of the subcategories that havent seen much action in the past 12 months (I love unreal much as the next guy , but it's just dust and tumbleweeds there right now).Quake stays though regardless of posts for historical reasons.
And dont even f£$king think of messing with from Arcade and retro ...;)!
I'd love to see a PC format forum (alongside the consoles), but I doubt that's going to happen.

cherryghost

I fully agree with most points in this thread. Hence why I've 100% disapproved of the Fallout forum. It'll just go the same way as most other forums have gone. The Games forum as a whole is a very busy and active community, but unfortunately about a quarter/third of them are fairly dead.

I miss the old ways :pac:



(I reregged a few years back)

Penn

The problem is, while some of them are fairly slow, that changes when there's a new game out. I mean, fair enough, the MGS forum could probably go. But when the next GTA game comes out, the amount of threads a game like that would generate would be too much. And trying to contain it to one or two threads would just mean a lot of things would get lost in the mix. Same with some of the other forums.

Tallon

cherryghost wrote: »

(I reregged a few years back)

shhhhhhhh

quarryman

cherryghost wrote: »

I miss the old ways :pac:

(I reregged a few years back)

Was just about to point out that I was surprised a relatively recent member would prefer the old ways, but the re-reg explains that!

Seriously though , do things need to be changed?

Before 2006 the Games forum was much more active place with threads on a wide-ranging selection of games. Now its limited to a few PC games and random topics. No decent discussion at all.

paddyirishman85 wrote: »

The problem is, while some of them are fairly slow, that changes when there's a new game out. I mean, fair enough, the MGS forum could probably go. But when the next GTA game comes out, the amount of threads a game like that would generate would be too much. And trying to contain it to one or two threads would just mean a lot of things would get lost in the mix. Same with some of the other forums.

And when is the next GTA out?
Exactly.
Having a separate forum for it is stupid if it gets traffic once every 2 years.

Something like GTA can be handled by a few megathreads. It works on other forums, it should be done here.

Currently there are SIXTY sub-forums for games on a general message forum that doesn't specialize in games. This is ridiculous.

Penn

I'd disagree about the lack of good discussions on the games forum. Look at recent threads about Devil May Cry, Bayonetta, and the thread called "Should I be sporting".

Let's face it, there has just been the summer games drought. I'd say things will pick up a lot over the next few months. If you add a load of megathreads and stickies on top, a lot of threads would get lost. I agree that some forums should be culled or merged, perhaps by genre (eg Fighting Games), but diverting a lot of the extra traffic into the main Games Forum is wrong in my opinion. I mean, is it really that big a problem or that difficult to find what forum a thread belongs to? Is the Games forum really suffering that badly?

Chairman Meow

i used to post here a long time ago before the merge of the forums and i remember it had alot more activity, and alot more posters. I more or less gave up posting here as it can take ages to get a reply, and there are far busier and better games forums out there. Maybe a de-merge would bring the palce back to some semblance of an active games forum

Retr0gamer

paddyirishman85 wrote: »

I'd disagree about the lack of good discussions on the games forum. Look at recent threads about Devil May Cry, Bayonetta, and the thread called "Should I be sporting".

We're completely missing out on any input from a lot of posters from the platform specific forums though and before the split I'm sure these threads would have gained a lot more discussion. Just go into the Xbox forum and look through it. Look how many boring technical threads there are there and how few are actually relating to games. I hardly ever visit that forum because hardly any threads there even interest me and miss out on discussion of new games.

It was meant to be that all game discussion was to be put in the games forum and all platform specific discussion was to be left in the console forums but it's since changed and we are getting silly stuff like 3 threads on going in 3 different forums about the same game. The console forums are doing more to breed fanboyism than anything really.

Anyway I definitely agree that some forums need to be dropped but especially single player games that have little to no multiplayer community. I can't see how these forums can't be maintained in one big megathread ala the Demon's Souls thread like it used to be with any clueless new threads being merged into it. Some categories can be merged into bigger ones. A street fighter forum would be stupid but the fighting games forum is perfect and just look at the community around it. It's why I got the Final Fantasy forum changed to japanese RPGs because it was stupidly limited and the discussion inane but since then it's still quite but has a decent small community and the discussion has improved immensely.

tman

paddyirishman85 wrote: »

I'd disagree about the lack of good discussions on the games forum. Look at recent threads about Devil May Cry, Bayonetta, and the thread called "Should I be sporting".

That's kind of missing the point though, all of those threads could just as easily have been created in the xbox or PS forums and would have missed out on the input of quite a few regulars of this forum who tend to avoid those forums.

I'm definitely in agreement that the Nintendo, Playstation and Xbox forums should go back to their original intention and only be used for hardware type issues, not games discussion.

Chairman Meow

Just take a leaf out of the bigger forums bookes (rllmuk, neogaf, etc)

Theyre laid out thuswise:

Discussion forum -
Containing all discussion of pc, 360, ps3 games. All big game have ONE official thread that all questions and discussion of said game goes into. Any duplicate threads are baleeted. People argue "oh but youll get xbots arguing with the sony defense force" etc, well if forums with thousands of members like gaf can make it work, a few hundred odd members here can too.

Online discussion -
The multiplayer component of most games is dicussed here, arrangements for froum games of halo, cod, whatever, all goes in here. With each game having its own official thread as in general discussion

Retro & Arcade -
Does exactly what it says on the tin. All retro and arcade discussion in here.

Bada bing bada boom, 3 forums, all discussion you might need compiled into them, with the added bonus of something like an ARMA2 thread in general gaming discussion, it might garner new interest where its easily accessible, where most people wouldnt bother clicking into a tactical shooter forum to read about it.

Theres really no need for 60 odd sub gaming forums, they onyl exist cause at the time, as quarryman said, board was under the impression that bigger meant better, and wanted to be the biggest forum on the web. It jsut dilutes discussion to the point that its at now, with a whole load of relatively quiet subforums instead of a handful of active ones

TouchingVirus

I almost never hit up the gaming forums apart from Games->Consoles subcategory, but I do hear what you're all saying.

There is no need to have two or three Alan Wake threads because it's the same game. It'd be much better for the community if there was platform-independent discussion on actual games.

Keeping the console sub-cats (esp Console Modding ) should be done because it facilitates specific chats. Sure, it's a pain in the face that 80% of the xbox threads are stuff like "what's the new slim like", "RROD again" etc but there needs to be places for those types of discussion, nobody wants to see it in a generic Consoles forum or here in Games.

A forum by forum cleanup, merging the zombie forums is a step in the right direction. If at some point a split needs to be made for a specific game then just ask for it. If the merges are done right then it won't be that regular an occurance, will it?

I'm not getting on a mod-bashing course here, I've always found the Games mods to be there when necessary, but the next step would be an active discussion among the mods deciding what goes where and enforcing those rules. There should be one place for general Halo threads, it's been pointed out they could currently be in several places - Games, Xbox or Shooters->Halo. Maybe the online games/hosting posts could be in the platform forums, but maybe just stick it all in Halo with stickies at the top for each platform? I don't mean to tell you your business, I'm sure you can come up with a workable solution yourselves with the regulars giving some input.

Either way I think a change will only benefit the whole games subcommunity and it might even make me participate in here and leave the console subcat more often

TouchingVirus

Chairman Meow wrote: »

Theres really no need for 60 odd sub gaming forums, they onyl exist cause at the time, as quarryman said, board was under the impression that bigger meant better, and wanted to be the biggest forum on the web. It jsut dilutes discussion to the point that its at now, with a whole load of relatively quiet subforums instead of a handful of active ones

Let's say we do that, then I'm afraid some of those threads will become excessively large and active and stymy converstation. There's nothing like asking a question and finding your answer 8+ pages away. At that point you'd love to have your own thread, or a Q&A thread. Games like ARMA2 are so much bigger than a one-thread solution. And sure, while it works on other forums it doesn't mean it works well.

60 subforums is a lot though, there is room for improvement.

Chairman Meow

TouchingVirus wrote: »

Let's say we do that, then I'm afraid some of those threads will become excessively large and active and stymy converstation. There's nothing like asking a question and finding your answer 8+ pages away. At that point you'd love to have your own thread, or a Q&A thread. Games like ARMA2 are so much bigger than a one-thread solution. And sure, while it works on other forums it doesn't mean it works well.

60 subforums is a lot though, there is room for improvement.

Well, like i said, it works for practically every other games forum on the interwebs, why not here?

Myrddin

I think if it were to be done, then all games should be discussed in the games forum. Unless it's a system exclusive, in which case it could be discussed in the relevant forum (PS, Nintendo, Xbox etc).

There would be a need to add more mods in here though, as the traffic would obviously sky-rocket.

The Console Forums are indeed handy for technical reasons, but individual games forums is perhaps a step too much. However, moving that amount of traffic in here would require a new/revised charter with the guidelines on how to post correctly, and keep the Games forum tidy/useable. Oh and some top notch mods in flame resistant overalls Interesting change though.

johnny_ultimate

I said it earlier, but one big megamerge - even to say three main forums - is probably not a viable solution. As said, keeping format specific, technical issues to their own forums seems necessary, and for someplace for players to organise online stuff too. So if someone wants to get other players for, say, Battlefield on Xbox, well then Xbox is probably the right place for that! If the goal is to make the main games forum busier, I'd be personally all for 'megathreads' in there for specific games. Would also be a place for more general topics and discussion. If this means cutting down on the game and genre specific forums, well would have to consult the 'local' mods and users. Also, as I said, losing the 'active' forums such as those for MMORPGs seems like a mistake too.

Tidying is necessary, but no point creating anarchy and clutter in the process. The busier the forums become, the more likely you are to lose track. Not all subforums are bad, just need to sort out a compromise that tidies the place up.

TouchingVirus

Chairman Meow wrote: »

Well, like i said, it works for practically every other games forum on the interwebs, why not here?

Because while it works, it's my opinion that it doesn't work well. It could be so much more efficient and conducive to conversation if the most active gaming sub-communities got their own forums.

If you wanted to ask something about a game, and had to trawl through 20 pages of posts since yesterday when you asked to find that one answer would you come back? I wouldn't. Mega-threads are great when the topic of conversation moves as one, but more often than not the reality is a heap of mini-threads balled into one colossal mess.

I don't see the reasoning for it when there are other options. Not every mega-thread needs it's own subforum, but I think the busier ones should. In effect it is what the others are saying, the zombie forums get lumped back to games with their mega-thread, and the active busy communities keep their subforum.

cherryghost

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

So if someone wants to get other players for, say, Battlefield on Xbox, well then Xbox is probably the right place for that!

No, the Battlefield forum is for that :pac::pac::pac:

johnny_ultimate

cherryghost wrote: »

No, the Battlefield forum is for that :pac::pac::pac:

What about the Battlefield mega-thread?

Arghh, confusion!

Myrddin

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

What about the Battlefield mega-thread?

Arghh, confusion!

I suppose in place of the forums that are culled, it's feasable to have a PSN and an XBL forum in their place. That way, the gaming talk can remain here, but the multi-player (non-story part) can be discussed in those forums. It would also seperate the Playstation users from the Xbox users (PSN/XBL). Just a thought

thewheel2.0

Chairman Meow wrote: »

Well, like i said, it works for practically every other games forum on the interwebs, why not here?

Exactly NeoGAF 3000 active users right now and the Americans are not even awake yet! NeoGAF works and has worked for years.

The perfect list IMHO is:

Games: For discussion.
Console Problems: For Tech issues, no need for 3 forums it can fit in one.
Online Matchmaking: For everything online from FPS to MMOs. People can meet here to play with each other.
Quake: For obvious reasons or it could be a sub forum
Other: Card games (Poker or Magic TG), D&D and so on

And for anyone worrying that threads will get lost on the second page or posts will be hard to keep up with - cop on theres only a few hundred users.

This is the second thread in recent times about this its time people stopped talking about it and did it. It doesn't hurt to experiment.

TouchingVirus

thewheel2.0 wrote: »

And for anyone worrying that threads will get lost on the second page or posts will be hard to keep up with - cop on theres only a few hundred users.

This is the second thread in recent times about this its time people stopped talking about it and did it. It doesn't hurt to experiment.

It will hurt communities if we do it your way. What'll happen to Arcade & Retro? Where does console modding fit in (along with it's requirements to have particularly vigilant mods)?

As for the cop on comment, it's laughable that somebody with a different opinion than yourself needs to "cop on". The thing that "works" for NeoGAF and the other forums is one of the reasons I'm not a member of them. I don't like participating in multi-topic'd threads. If we were all of a hive mind and the megathread flowed properly then all well and good, megathreads rock. But as I stated most of them don't and end up akin stepping into a room where 100 different conversations are going on and shouting across them all trying to be conversation 101.

And then again we're only talking about video gaming here. The thoughts of sticking 600,000 posts from Poker in with Magic: The Gathering is ridiculous tbh. Why don't we go to the tax office to sort out car insurance.

johnny_ultimate

I think we're small enough that mega-threads are viable when it comes to discussing the merits and demerits of a particular game. Only when factions begin to form, the topic spiralling off in multiple directions are individual and more specific threads necessary. With singleplayer games, I think one central place is fine. Multiplayer, though, does probably need some sort of dedicated place just for tidiness sake. Whether that is a dedicated 'online' section or format specific or whatever, I'm not quite sure, but bound to be some sort of acceptable solution.

Wouldn't go anywhere near Poker though :pac:

Myrddin

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

I think we're small enough that mega-threads are viable when it comes to discussing the merits and demerits of a particular game. Only when factions begin to form, the topic spiralling off in multiple directions are individual and more specific threads necessary. With singleplayer games, I think one central place is fine. Multiplayer, though, does probably need some sort of dedicated place just for tidiness sake. Whether that is a dedicated 'online' section or format specific or whatever, I'm not quite sure, but bound to be some sort of acceptable solution.

Wouldn't go anywhere near Poker though :pac:

That more or less sums it up nicely. If a charter can be properly written (nothing to complex, but more a guide on the workings of the forum), and the modding stringent enough, I think it could work.

I do agree, PSN/XBL need to be seperated. Ideally into their own forums, as that's a recipe for hell having it all together.

I'm not sure if it would be too limiting however, discussion wise. Would the Games forum become too big with pages of new threads every day? I'm not sure. I can see the logic of both sides I suppose.

Spear

cherryghost wrote: »

No, the Battlefield forum is for that :pac::pac::pac:

Probably an example worth expanding upon:

With the release of BC2, the console players kept to their respective platform specific mega threads, and left the Battlefield forum to only the PC players. There were never any anti-console issues/sentiments to lead to this, and they weren't made unwelcome in there (that I saw).

So which do we give precedence to: platform specific or franchise specific forums? CoD seems to get along fine as franchise specific, and is busy as a result.

Edit: also, yay! 4000th post.

TouchingVirus

Spear wrote: »

Probably an example worth expanding upon:

With the release of BC2, the console players kept to their respective platform specific mega threads, and left the Battlefield forum to only the PC players. There were never any anti-console issues/sentiments to lead to this, and they weren't made unwelcome in there (that I saw).

So which do we give precedence to: platform specific or franchise specific forums? CoD seems to get along fine as franchise specific, and is busy as a result.

Edit: also, yay! 4000th post.

My vote is behind franchise specific too. Even for multiplayer related threads

Retr0gamer

TouchingVirus wrote: »

Let's say we do that, then I'm afraid some of those threads will become excessively large and active and stymy converstation. There's nothing like asking a question and finding your answer 8+ pages away. At that point you'd love to have your own thread, or a Q&A thread. Games like ARMA2 are so much bigger than a one-thread solution. And sure, while it works on other forums it doesn't mean it works well.

TouchingVirus wrote: »

It will hurt communities if we do it your way. What'll happen to Arcade & Retro? Where does console modding fit in (along with it's requirements to have particularly vigilant mods)?

...

And then again we're only talking about video gaming here. The thoughts of sticking 600,000 posts from Poker in with Magic: The Gathering is ridiculous tbh. Why don't we go to the tax office to sort out car insurance.

Before when it was megathreads there was no problem with this happening. Your question would always get an answer unless it was a stupid question. It's more convenient trawling through one thread than up to 3. It works better in every other forum and it used to work here a lot better than it did when the games boards community was an awful lot more active. I know a lot of regulars left because the conversation in the games forums took a nose dive with the split.

Again nobody is saying that we merge all the sub forums together. A console modding forum is needed and many of the sub forums have big enough communities and series that they need to say. However there's an awful lot of dead forums that need to be culled and these are the ones that need to be culled. What happens if these become popualr enough to warrant their own forum? Well then we can just create another forum if they need it.

Megathreads will only be needed for the games initial release, then after the hype dies down then individual threads suffice.

I'd also like to see platform exclusives discussed on the games forum and not in console specific forums. I think the console specific ones should just be for XBL and PSN and technical questions.