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Games forum re-merge

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    #212
    oceanclub
    Registered Users Posts: 3,411 ✭✭✭oceanclub


    Rev Hellfire wrote: »
    The best you can do is structure your site in such away that people naturally gravitate to the appropriate place.

    But that's precisely the point people are making; there is no such natural gravitation with the boards.ie Games forum structure.

    P.


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    #213
    Rev Hellfire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,346 ✭✭✭Rev Hellfire


    oceanclub wrote: »
    Less forums which don't have multiple overlaps would solve this.
    I partially agree, there's a lack constancy to the layout.
    oceanclub wrote: »
    I mean, at the moment, there's multiple forums for games genres, specific games and platforms. I remember asking why there wasn't a PC Game forum, and being told that PC games were covered by the relevant game/genre forums. But that reasoning applies to console forums as well. It doesn't make any sense.

    I think because at the time the PC was assumed as the default platform.


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    #214
    Rev Hellfire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,346 ✭✭✭Rev Hellfire


    oceanclub wrote: »
    But that's precisely the point people are making; there is no such natural gravitation with the boards.ie Games forum structure.

    P.

    I think everyone agrees that's the case.


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    #215
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,787 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Rev Hellfire wrote: »
    But that didn't stop you posting in either forum.

    In the end of the day you can't force people to go to forums they aren't interested in, they'll post where they feel is appropriate. To take your example if you simply mandated that no-one could post about GTA in the X-Box or PS forums you'll simply drive those people who are only interested in that aspect of the game away.

    The best you can do is structure your site in such away that people naturally gravitate to the appropriate place.

    I agree. What I'm saying is that with the current setup, a lot of people missed out on that thread. Chances are that people without a 360 wouldn't have looked at the xbox forum. But many of them may have been PS3 owners who would also have read or posted in the thread. It not being in the Games, PS3, or GTA forum, they would have missed it

    That's why I agree with a restructuring of the Games forums. Get as many people in on discussions as possible


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    #216
    Rev Hellfire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,346 ✭✭✭Rev Hellfire


    paddyirishman85 wrote: »
    It not being in the Games, PS3, or GTA forum, they would have missed it

    That's why I agree with a restructuring of the Games forums. Get as many people in on discussions as possible
    But that not suitable for everyone, you will get a number of people who simply don't want to read the games forum (I rarely do), all they want is the one for their console, so now you have the xbox/ps3 users unhappy.


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    #217
    oceanclub
    Registered Users Posts: 3,411 ✭✭✭oceanclub


    Rev Hellfire wrote: »
    But that not suitable for everyone, you will get a number of people who simply don't want to read the games forum (I rarely do), all they want is the one for their console, so now you have the xbox/ps3 users unhappy.

    Then split the forums by format (PC/XBox/PlayStation/Nintendo). The precise structure isn't important; what is important is that it's consistent and not have multiple overlaps.

    P.


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    #218
    Rev Hellfire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,346 ✭✭✭Rev Hellfire


    oceanclub wrote: »
    Then split the forums by format (PC/XBox/PlayStation/Nintendo). The precise structure isn't important; what is important is that it's consistent and not have multiple overlaps.

    P.
    Hows that different to what we have ?


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    #219
    oceanclub
    Registered Users Posts: 3,411 ✭✭✭oceanclub


    At this point I retire from the conversation as I feel I'm going round in circles.

    P.


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    #220
    humanji
    Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    I honestly don't have a problem with the layout of the category. With the Beta skin, you hover the mouse over "Games" and every category is listed for you. That's as simple as it needs to be. Everything is within one click.

    And I don't see why some forums will need to be culled. It kind of reeks of "I don't use it, so it should go". Is having, for example, "The Sims" forum really causing people that much hassle in their daily lives? Just don't use them. If the sight of them offends you, then use the subscription service and you don't have a problem any more.

    And the idea of megathreads would be detrimental to the site, IMO. Casual users aren't going to wade through 100 pages of posts to find out some info on a game. They'll just go somewhere else. Hell, I'm a regular user and can't be arsed going through large threads. Megathreads are grand if you're there throughout. Come in half-way and you won't have a clue what's going on and usually you're input/questions are ignored as the discussion races past you.

    If there are numerous threads about a game that all cover the same thing, then merge the threads. But if it's about different aspects of a game then there's no reason to have them get lost in one large thread. Plus it'll encourage more input from people who want to talk about a specific topic without thrawling through pages of something they've no interest in.

    The only actual problem with the category that I see at the moment is the cross forum threads. But are these really a problem? I mean, do they really cause that much hassle for people? They usually contain the exact same info anyway, so I just read one of them.

    Basically, I think the category is fine at the moment. That said, I wouldn't campaign against changes though. If enough people want change, we should go for it.


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    #221
    Tallon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,565 ✭✭✭✭Tallon


    ^^ This ^^


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    #222
    quarryman
    Registered Users Posts: 7,496 ✭✭✭quarryman


    Retr0gamer wrote: »
    I'm posting on HG101 a lot more. Single games forum, never over crowded and always good discussion.

    nice one. I'll add that to my list of sites I visit now other than boards!


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    #223
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,787 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    No one is saying that the existing layout is perfect or that any of the proposed layouts will be perfect, but let's try making the games forum better before we all start recommending sites to use instead of boards.


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    #224
    marco_polo
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,079 Mod ✭✭✭✭marco_polo


    Thinking about it more, for me the crux of the problem is that the main games forum ought to be the focal/entry point for the entire section off which more specific forums 'flow', but in the current structure (including the menu layout) it is not (Games in the current menu structure 'stands out' no more than Arcade & Retro or Consoles or Fighting Games).

    Mainly I would just like to have to read one thread on Fallout:New Vegas rather than three :).

    Personally the existance of forums that I do not use does not bother me much once they are not cluttering the main menus.


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    #225
    Retr0gamer
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,441 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    I think if we just get rid of the console forums and turn them into pure tech forums while moving all game discussion to a centralised game forum it would be a lot better. There's no need to go culling forums and these forums are nto whats stagnating discussion about videogames.
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    #226
    cherryghost
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 17,134 Mod ✭✭✭✭cherryghost


    He's just pointing out that the current layout stifles the community on boards because the Games forum has expanded so much that much of the debates/conversations etc have broken up altogether.

    And he's right.

    EDIT: He just explained it himself right above me :/


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    #227
    Rev Hellfire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,346 ✭✭✭Rev Hellfire


    Retr0gamer wrote: »
    I think if we just get rid of the console forums and turn them into pure tech forums while moving all game discussion to a centralised game forum it would be a lot better.
    The problem is those tech forums will become 'littered' with xbox games topics, since xbox users typically want the opinions of other xbox users.
    I think you just have to live with the fact you'll have some people who don't want the generic conversation and are concerned on a platform level only.

    I'll be honest if I want the opinion on an xbox game the first place I'll go will be logically enough an xbox forum not the pc+xbox+wii+ps3 forum where things get bogged down with games on platforms I can't play or drowned out with posts on which console/implementation is better. And if I can't get it here I'll go elsewhere.


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    #228
    Dr Bob
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 3,183 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dr Bob


    I don't think the big decentralized system is the way to go.
    Forums are about communities , not nessacarily click traffic (or at least they should be).Smaller sub categoriy forums tend to build up communities of people who share a common interest.
    To put in in context I doubt there'd be A&R beers/fighting game meets/etc if retro gaming/fighting consisted of 1 in 10 posts in the games forum.


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    #229
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,787 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    But if the Xbox forum wasn't called the xbox forum, and all the console specific forums grouped as one Technical forum for technical queries about the consoles, the games threads would be put in the games forum.

    I think, as a start anyway, its worth a go. If more need to be gotten rid of or changed as time goes on, then so be it. But changing too much too soon could leave a lot of people flustered. I mean, there's a difference between merging and renaming a few subforums and completely changing the Games Category.


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    #230
    quarryman
    Registered Users Posts: 7,496 ✭✭✭quarryman


    Rev Hellfire wrote: »
    The problem is those tech forums will become 'littered' with xbox games topics, since xbox users typically want the opinions of other xbox users.
    .



    Sorry Rev, I'm just not buying that.

    If those "Tech" forums are marked as such (possibly with a sticky) people aren't going to put Games threads into them, they'll put them in Games.
    Rev Hellfire wrote: »
    I think you just have to live with the fact you'll have some people who don't want the generic conversation and are concerned on a platform level only.

    Why would someone discussing Oblivion want to discuss the finer details of Enchanting in a forum dedicated to the Xbox 360 version of the game rather than the PS3 version. They are the exact same. Nothing is going to get "bogged down". Any technical questions go the boring Tech section.


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    #231
    oceanclub
    Registered Users Posts: 3,411 ✭✭✭oceanclub


    Rev Hellfire wrote: »
    The problem is those tech forums will become 'littered' with xbox games topics, since xbox users typically want the opinions of other xbox users.

    If they're talking about non-technical aspects of the gameplay, what does it matter? It still makes more sense than having users decide whether to post, say, about "Oblivion" gameplay in the genre forum "Roleplaying", the console forums or in the "Game" forum (if they're playing on PC).

    If, after a re-org, users are posting non-technical posts to, say an "Xbox 360 Hardware" forum, there might be a period of adjustment where threads can be moved but I don't think it's a huge problem.

    P.


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    #232
    Rev Hellfire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,346 ✭✭✭Rev Hellfire


    quarryman wrote: »
    Sorry Rev, I'm just not buying that.

    If those "Tech" forums are marked as such (possibly with a sticky) people aren't going to put Games threads into them, they'll put them in Games.


    Why would someone discussing Oblivion want to discuss the finer details of Enchanting in a forum dedicated to the Xbox 360 version of the game rather than the PS3 version. They are the exact same. Nothing is going to get "bogged down". Any technical questions go the boring Tech section.
    They don't, but neither do they want to read a general games forum, they want a xbox specific forum dealing only with xbox games.


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    #233
    oceanclub
    Registered Users Posts: 3,411 ✭✭✭oceanclub


    Rev Hellfire wrote: »
    They don't, but neither do they want to read a general games forum, they want a xbox specific forum dealing only with xbox games.

    Then if you think users want to split up the hierarchy by platform and only read forums related to their platform, do that.

    The problem is that we have two overlapping hierarchies - by genre and by platform - and it's not working.

    P.


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    #234
    TheChrisD
    Registered Users Posts: 4,571 ✭✭✭TheChrisD


    TBH, taking the Xbox forum as an example, the games being talked about in there are all either multi-platform (BC2, Dead Rising 2, NHL11) or already have a dedicated series forum (Halo Reach).

    If people want to discuss a specific platform exclusive that doesn't have a special series forum, why can't they just talk in the general Games forum, and have it implement a prefix system similar to the Call of Duty forum?
    image.png




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    #235
    Retr0gamer
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,441 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    I also think that there should be no problem discussing newly released games that have dedicated franchise forums in the general games forum. The franchise forums shoucl be there to harbour community when the new releases die down.
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    #236
    Rev Hellfire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,346 ✭✭✭Rev Hellfire


    TheChrisD wrote: »
    If people want to discuss a specific platform exclusive that doesn't have a special series forum, why can't they just talk in the general Games forum, and have it implement a prefix system similar to the Call of Duty forum?
    Because they don't want too, which is reason enough.
    I personally simply want a forum I can goto in which the only topics are for the console I own or am interested in.
    Beyond some people having to check an additional forum or two I haven't seen a compelling reason which this should not remain the case.

    Simpy put there's nothing much wrong with the current system that a reorganization of the forums such that there is a smaller number at the category root will not fix.


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    #237
    Retr0gamer
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,441 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    Rev Hellfire wrote: »
    Because they don't want too, which is reason enough.
    I personally simply want a forum I can goto in which the only topics are for the console I own or am interested in.
    Beyond some people having to check an additional forum or two I haven't seen a compelling reason which this should not remain the case.

    Simpy put there's nothing much wrong with the current system that a reorganization of the forums such that there is a smaller number at the category root will not fix.

    Why not go to a centralised games forum then where all those console specific threads will be? You'll still be discussing the same stuff but with better discussion happening and not wade through 'OMFG my Xbox is borked!' threads. All the stuff you will be interested in will be there and you never know, you might learn something interesting aobut other formats you don't own.

    I on the other hand never go near the Xbox forum because it's just terrible. I'd love to discuss Dead Rising 2 but the Xbox forum is a mess, the discussionis terrible and I have no interest in going near it. I only visit the PS forum since it's slightly better and there's one or two threads with decent conversation. The nintendo forum is fine but the level of discussion is really slow on it. Before the split during the Gamecube's lifespan there was a huge loyal and intelligent Nintendo presence on the forums and also a huge Dreamcast following. Even the smaller less successful consoles had a following and it just seems to have died here after the split.
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    #238
    Rev Hellfire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,346 ✭✭✭Rev Hellfire


    Retr0gamer wrote: »
    Why not go to a centralised games forum then where all those console specific threads will be? You'll still be discussing the same stuff but with better discussion happening and not wade through 'OMFG my Xbox is borked!' threads. All the stuff you will be interested in will be there and you never know, you might learn something interesting aobut other formats you don't own.
    I'm not unsympathetic to your view, its just that its not for me. The very qualities you see as a plus are to me a negative and vice-versa.

    Though I do agree that the current layout has fragmented the user base more than it should.

    There's no proper hierarchy which can be followed which directs down from games through genre though to series. Things like the shooter + simulation sub-categories should be under games and forums in their own right which can accept posts in my view. As they are they're largely unseen and hence under used by those who could avail of them.

    I guess thats the problem a balance needs to be found which serves both camps.


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    #239
    ShaneU
    Registered Users Posts: 14,847 ✭✭✭✭ShaneU


    My two cents

    Games
    >videogames
    ......> general & multiplatform gaming.
    ......> nintendo
    ......> playstation
    ......> xbox
    ......> pc
    ......> arcade & retro
    ......> events & tournaments
    > poker
    > miniature gaming
    > toys & boardgames
    > webgames


    I think most of the console / genre specific forums are unnecessary, I mean there isn't even one for iphone games, it's just one thread over in the apple forum and it works fine.

    Game editing should be moved into the general gaming forum, MMO's should be moved into the PC forum etc. etc.


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    #240
    Tallon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,565 ✭✭✭✭Tallon


    There are quite a few more console/pc holders than iPhone holders so of course there will be more threads on general games.

    Also, there is noway most of the individual games forums should be split up


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    #241
    quarryman
    Registered Users Posts: 7,496 ✭✭✭quarryman


    ShaneU wrote: »
    My two cents

    Games
    >videogames
    ......> general & multiplatform gaming.
    ......> nintendo
    ......> playstation
    ......> xbox
    ......> pc
    ......> arcade & retro
    ......> events & tournaments
    > poker
    > miniature gaming
    > toys & boardgames
    > webgames


    I think most of the console / genre specific forums are unnecessary, I mean there isn't even one for iphone games, it's just one thread over in the apple forum and it works fine.

    Game editing should be moved into the general gaming forum, MMO's should be moved into the PC forum etc. etc.


    But you have general & multiplatform gaming AND nintendo, playstation, xbox and PC forums. This is exactly what we have now.


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