Very upset.

cc-offe

Hi, I was wondering what you think of this as it is upsetting me the more I think about it.
My 4 year old has just started primary school, the other day at dinner he said to me that they had been brought down to mass in the church, I was given no notice of this, they didn't ask for permission or anything, The school texts the parents to let them know any school news etc. so it would have been easy to let us know.
It's around a 5 minute walk from the school, I am catholic myself but I don't go to mass, my son was christened but I don't take him to mass either.
I'm upset for a number of reasons,

1. On that day when he should have been in school he was in a different place without my knowledge.

2. In light of everything I know about the church and abuse I think it is completely inappropriate for them to be brought down there without informing us.

3. Is that not illegal for them to be taken out of school without written consent?

4. It is a big enough class and I do not know how many teachers or adults walked with all these children on the road to the church, My son holds my hand on that road and I hate the thought of him not being safe walking down the road.

Am i being irrational? Because I don't think I am

Ickle Magoo

If it is a school with a catholic ethos then I think their ties to the church and regular attendance at mass was probably to be expected. Ask for a copy of their regulations and codes of practices and an appointment with the head if you aren't happy.

cc-offe

I don't think regular attendance to mass was to be expected at all, when i went to school in the early 90's our school had a strong catholic ethos, the church was 2 minutes away and we did not go to mass.

There was nothing about this in the school welcome pack or in the enrollment forms which had consent forms for various things and not this.

seithon

When I was in a catholic school in the late 80's we'd be taken round the church next door.
It's not unheard of.. but if it's an issue how about just having a polite talk with the principal sometime? I'm sure they'd be willing to take what you say on board, it could just be that it is something of a tradition that has gone on for so long that they no longer actually think about any possible problems.

Ickle Magoo

I have no experience of schools with church ties, either as a parent or a pupil, I'm just going on what I have heard about them from others; it's not the first time I've heard about kids being taken to mass by their school though what consents or permissions went before-hand, I don't know.

As I say, if you feel you have legitimate cause for complaint then make an appointment with the head and state your concerns. :cool:

cc-offe

I will speak to the principal in next couple of days as partner will be doing the school run tomorrow,
It is not the idea of them going to mass that I have a problem with.
It is that they didn't inform the parents, a simple text saying 'we will be bringing the children to school tomorrow at 10am, they will be back at school by 11am, if you do not want your child to attend then please inform us' is surely not too much to ask.

pearljamfan

i would be really annoyed if my child was taken out of school without me knowing about it, even if it was to mass down the road.
its the one thing that worries me now, a year before my 'baby' goes to big school! sorry im not really a help, just i dont think ure being irrational, we want our kids looked after when were not there, its hard to trust the teachers if ure not told about it.

Wolfe Tone

cc-offe wrote: »

Hi, I was wondering what you think of this as it is upsetting me the more I think about it.
My 4 year old has just started primary school, the other day at dinner he said to me that they had been brought down to mass in the church, I was given no notice of this, they didn't ask for permission or anything, The school texts the parents to let them know any school news etc. so it would have been easy to let us know.
It's around a 5 minute walk from the school, I am catholic myself but I don't go to mass, my son was christened but I don't take him to mass either.
I'm upset for a number of reasons,

1. On that day when he should have been in school he was in a different place without my knowledge.

2. In light of everything I know about the church and abuse I think it is completely inappropriate for them to be brought down there without informing us.

3. Is that not illegal for them to be taken out of school without written consent?

4. It is a big enough class and I do not know how many teachers or adults walked with all these children on the road to the church, My son holds my hand on that road and I hate the thought of him not being safe walking down the road.

Am i being irrational? Because I don't think I am

Yes you are.



Was it a once off thing? My local primary takes the kids to mass every week.

cc-offe

Oh really, That was just 1 of my points, what about the nursery in england where the children were being abused, things happen, I want to know where my child is at all times because he is four and that is my right as a parent.

The road that they walk down is a steep hill with a narrow path and with a class of nearly 30 4-5 year olds you think it's irrational to worry that he will be safe?? Madness

I don't know if it is a once off thing because it just happened the other day with no word of it from the school so I don't know yet if they do it all the time or not.

halpin17

If decide to not allow your child to go to mass with the others, he becomes the odd one out,and may result in him feeling left out,maybe he wants to go some kids do and it kinda feels like u had a problem with it more than your child did.pretty sure there would be more than adequate supervision on the way to the church.we use to a have mass once a month in primary school and twice a year in secondary school,you had to stay in the classroom on your own if u weren't allowed go by your parents or were a prodtestant or athiest.leave him to make his own decision when he's older like I'm sure you did but for now let him go with the flow.

cc-offe

Halpin17 I don't have a problem with him going to mass, I have a problem that the school did not inform us.

Wolfe Tone

cc-offe wrote: »

Oh really, That was just 1 of my points, what about the nursery in england where the children were being abused, things happen, I want to know where my child is at all times because he is four and that is my right as a parent.

Seriously, you really think there is a danger that your child could be abused by spending 45 mins in the church?

The road that they walk down is a steep hill with a narrow path and with a class of nearly 30 4-5 year olds you think it's irrational to worry that he will be safe?? Madness

Yes it is irrational, the teachers know what they are doing. More likely that he could fall and hurt himself in the yard.


Well you should definitely ask.

Will you stop your son from going again?

cc-offe

I am saying that I don't think they should take them to church without permission not that I think he will be abused.

Same way I would feel if they took him to the shop without permission or swimming.

As I said I have no idea how many adults or teachers walked them down the road but if it was 1 I fail to see how it is irrational to worry that she might not be able to control all of them.

I wouldn't stop my son from going but I would like to know when he is going.

Wolfe Tone

cc-offe wrote: »

I am saying that I don't think they should take them to church without permission not that I think he will be abused.

Same way I would feel if they took him to the shop without permission or swimming.

As I said I have no idea how many adults or teachers walked them down the road but if it was 1 I fail to see how it is irrational to worry that she might not be able to control all of them.

I wouldn't stop my son from going but I would like to know when he is going.

All I can speak is from my own experience, there was always around 3 teachers and we all had to hold hands with our "buddies". The very last thing teachers would want is a child hurt. If there was only 1 teacher you should go ballistic at them.





Any chance the wee fella was given a note but left it in his bag... I always did that!

Unregistered.

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Yes you are.

I disagree.

cc-offe

Sorry I know i'm being snappy....it's just he's my baby

There was no note because they get a little folder sent home every day because they give them little reading books in them every night that we comment on and all the notes go into that folder too.

I'll ask when I see the principal and put my mind at rest.

bad2dabone

well i suppose its very scary giving up control of your child to a school when you assume that the child is in their classroom and they're being brought outside without you knowing about it. Its really a communication issue here, the school didn't inform you of a change of plans and that's upset you. Fair enough. let them know that you expect to be notified if your child is to be take anywhere off the school grounds in future and that you're displeased with the manner which the trip was undertaken without your knowledge or consent. That should sort it.

And even if you are being irrational (which I don't think you are) you're allowed to be a bit irrational as a parent of your baby in my opinion

thesimpsons

you could almost 100% guarantee that there would be been more than just the one teacher with a group of this size.

if he is old enough to go to school independently surely you can't also be calling him a baby. He is not a baby in any sense of the word and needs to be given the little bit of independance that a junior infants child needs and this includes him not to be called a baby.

Nevyn

I was annoyed at my kids being taken from the class room to the local church(which is on the same plot of land) to do music lessons so they would not disturb the rest of the class.
It was done for religious reasons as well but as my children were not christened they were put in a differnt class for the duration and given worksheets to do.

If you had the child christened and enrolled as that then they will automatically include him in all the religious activies in the school.

As for your concerns are him leaving the school premises, go as questions,
about being informed, supervision and insurance.

cc-offe

thesimpsons wrote: »

if he is old enough to go to school independently surely you can't also be calling him a baby. He is not a baby in any sense of the word and needs to be given the little bit of independance that a junior infants child needs and this includes him not to be called a baby.

Oh get real.....absolutely unreal......loads of parents call their children their babies...does not mean I refer to him as a baby to his face or about him on a regular basis as a baby to other people....some people will jump on anything that they think will make themselves sound cleverer

Nevyn

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cynder

Thaedydal wrote: »

It was done for religious reasons as well but as my children were not christened they were put in a differnt class for the duration and given worksheets to do.

.

That was done to us and that's over 22 years ago, we didn't mind and neither did are parents, as we got older we did our homework during religious studies.

The times are parents did not approve is when we were brought down to the church and made sit at the back while they practised for communion.


My eldest lady was let 15 mins late from school last week because the whole school was at the church and what ever they were doing it ran over time. that really annoyed me.

Kimono-Girl

OP i have to ask, are you sure it is not the church issue which is annoying you most? the reason i ask is i can assure you, i live on a very busy main street and every week see children from both local primary schools walking on the narrow footpath, junior infants and all, they are ALWAYS paired,always well behaved (well they shout a lot but i have NEVER seen a child run off), and with 3/4 teachers, one in front,one in the back and one or two patrolling the road side!

so i have to ask...
1. would you object or be as annoyed if for example a relative is minding your child and they take him on an unplanned trip to the shop?

2. do you not trust your child will behave for his teacher?

thesimpsons

All I was merely trying to say is that if you still consider the 4yr old to be a baby even when talking about him to other people (as I'd certainly hope you wouldn't call him that to his face) you might also think that he isn't mature enough to go walk in file with his class with teachers supervising them. Kids will so often do as their teachers request them to that a parent wouldn't even think of, and the kids will do it because they listen to teachers differently. Vast majority of teachers are well able to control a large bunch of kids in a way parents aren't simply because children know they can't get around a teacher in the same way they could with their parents. There are hundreds of kids in school well able to button own coats, tie shoes, open lunches but the same kids go home and get everything done for them. Its part of the start of the process of giving them a little bits of appropriate freedom.

Rosser

cc-offe wrote: »

I will speak to the principal in next couple of days as partner will be doing the school run tomorrow,
It is not the idea of them going to mass that I have a problem with.
It is that they didn't inform the parents, a simple text saying 'we will be bringing the children to school tomorrow at 10am, they will be back at school by 11am, if you do not want your child to attend then please inform us' is surely not too much to ask.

If you send your child to a catholic school then this is to be expected. You also mentioned the abuse scandals, was this not a factor in you decision to place your child in the school? If it was and you came to terms with it then there's no point in raising it now.

If you're that unhappy you should change to a multi or nondenominational school, surely not too much to ask?

cc-offe

I can assure you it is not a church issue, the issue is that I send my child to school and as far as I am concerned that is where he should be unless I am told about it....catholic school or not...sending my child to school does not give them to right to take them from there without my permission.

My son is very well behaved for me, probably more so than a lot of kids his age so it's not him i'm worried about.

thesimpsons if you read my post, I referred to him as my baby when I was saying how much the situation wound me up, it was followed by a smily face, nearly every parent I know will say 'he/she will always be mu baby'

I have a 5 month old baby aswell and can assure you that my 4 year is treated as a child and not a baby, He has a lot of independance and no candlelover,I would not object if a relative brought him on an
unplanned visit to the shop, that does not bother me as they have my permission to take him to places, he is family to them and will therefore be minded just as I would mind him.

BluesBerry

OP did you sign a consent form at the start of the year allowing your child to be taken out of school on walks to the library church visits etc they have started to do this in my nephews school now to save all the hassle of notes coming home and if you have concerns about your child going to the church you can discuss it with the teacher and arrangements can be put in place for him to go to another classroom while they go to the church

cc-offe

No Rosser the issue is that they did not inform me that they were taking him to mass, not that they took to mass so moving him to a different school is not an issue.

Bluesberry, No there was no form about outings, there was other consent forms but none about taking them from school, also the school texts the parents so it would be no hassle IMO to let us know without even the need for notes.

Jumbo156

cc-offe wrote: »

I am saying that I don't think they should take them to church without permission not that I think he will be abused.

Same way I would feel if they took him to the shop without permission or swimming.

As I said I have no idea how many adults or teachers walked them down the road but if it was 1 I fail to see how it is irrational to worry that she might not be able to control all of them.

I wouldn't stop my son from going but I would like to know when he is going.

I think you are a being bit irrational to be honest.
Just as a matter of interest, what differnce would it make if you knew when he was going. Would you turn up at the school and follow him to and from the church.
We have to trust teachers sometimes, because whether you like it or not, they will have our kids for the next 13/14 years!!
We can't wrap our kids up in cotton wool.

dan_d

Op...you might be over-reacting a bit.

I know you've said the fact that it was going to mass doesn't bother you, which is fine, but if it's a Catholic school, then you're going to have to accept they will be brought to church at times.

Abuse should be the last thing on your mind. Do you know the priest visits classes once or twice a year, and chats to the kids, with the teacher present? Would you be afraid of abuse then? Would you have a problem with your child being in the room? It's a bit unfair tarring an entire group of people with the one brush. Do you know your local priest?

You say your main concern is the fact that they were brought out of the school,without telling you. If it's that much of an issue, then you should go to the principal and say that if this is done in future, you'd like to be informed. Although I would question exactly what good it would do you to know....is it just to make you feel better about it? If he's well-behaved and it's not him you're worried about, what exactly are you worried about?

Teachers are not babysitters put there to keep parents happy. Teachers are there to teach your child to the best of their ability, and take care of them.A teacher is trained to do this.Many parents forget this, and seem to believe that the school is some sort of babysitting location, to be operated at the whims of parents.The safety of a child is paramount to the school staff, and they would not attempt something like this (particularly with Junior Infants who haven't a notion what's going on most of the time), unless they are happy that there will be no problems. You can't wrap your child up in cotton wool..and a school operates to the best of it's ability to look after a child while the child is on their premises, but to be honest...everyone has different ideas about what's good or bad for their child, and what they're happy with or not. So if this is that big an issue for you, you need to go and inform the principal that you'd rather be told in future if your child is being taken off the school premises like this.

But yes, I'm afraid I do think you're overreacting a bit.

Wantobe

I know how you feel, OP, my first went to school last year and I found the lack of transparency difficult- you go from knowing everything they do, to virtually nothing of what they do during the day.

There will be other things too- nature walks, photographs, visitors to the school etc etc. Other parents who'd had older children go through it were a big help to me- I found out more from them than anyone else. One day I got a text from someone to say my child's photo was in a local newspaper- the photographer had come to the school and two children from each class had their photo taken, and mine was one. Needless to say, I knew nothing!

We signed a consent form at the start of the year for things like photos, saying we were catholic etc so while I would like to know everything that goes on, I have to accept that it is a big school, they probably have enough admin already without trying to give everyone a twitter update. Anyway I like and trust the teachers and the principal and my children are very happy there so that's the important thing.