DoneDeal no-hunting/shooting policy - Read mod note #138

jap gt

how many people have emailed them, i think anyone with a problem with their policies should do so, it will be much clearer to them when they get the emails what business they have lost

smokin ace

wow this topic has hit a raw nerve with the hunting folk here and thanks for the support on this issue i have been in contact with a done deal representative through emails and i have come to the conclusion that done deal is totally anti-country sports as they cant give me a proper reason for taking down my add for the lamping light

they tried to tell me lamping was against the law but i have sent them a copy of the legal law position from the NARGC website in relation to lamping and it clearly states that its not illegal to lamp foxes or rabbits and i asked them to reconsider there policy on lamping equipment seen as its not against the law for to lamp

personally i think done deal is a fantastic site and i hope maybe they will review some of there poilcys on hunting equipment

jap gt

i think grizzlys point above really sums it up, if they ban a lamp they have to go right across the board and ban everything used in hunting including horses which seem to be a big attraction on the site, i have emailed them asking if they are removing hunting gear are all the things grizzly pointed out being banned too, if they get enough pressure they will change their minds hopefully

4gun

they will have to prohibit the exchange of cats for one, while they make a fine pet their primary function in the domicile is to kill and deter small rodents, :rolleyes:
and the hypocracy of them one of their main benefactors is maceoin in Dingle which sells traps and snares, gun safes, lamps and the whole kit and kaboodle
I use their site on occasion and will e mail my discontent to them after work tomorrow... its about all that can be done
I'm sure there are more pro hunters than anti's using Done deal

DonnaDoneDeal

Hi again.......

Right, I have to be honest, I do get every single one of the points made here....you seriously cant imagine the debates that have gone in our office over this, seriously we have actually spent hours on several occasions trying to come up with the best solution for all involved. I can gaurantee that the voice of farmers that are trying to protect their stock (and I use this as just an example that I personally have raised myself during these discussions) has NOT been ignored.

I myself am a born and reared and bloody proud country girl, reared on farms and know that stock has to be protected. We all at DoneDeal genuinely understand that it is not all about what some customers believe it to be but I cant deny that there has been requests from both sides of the debate that we are trying to fairly address.

We as a company are trying to remain neutral, understand where all parties are coming from and create policies to reflect that. Unfortunately, some 'bad apples' that do engage in the pure torture of animals have forced us to clamp down on the use of certain phrases or items being sold on our site.

We are constantly trying to update our policies to come to some sort of happy medium and will continue to do so. Please feel free to contact us or me at any time with suggestions or comments at support@donedeal.ie or pm me here if you'd like. I honestly cant express enough how we actually do recognise the points that you are making and believe me, the opposers of all hunting aren't too happy with us either. We are now trying, and will continue to try to be as fair and neutral as possible so that our customers are best looked after.

I'd also like to say on a lighter note.....thanks for not running me outta here quick smart....really appreciated you guys listening to me

jap gt

Again nice to see you keeping a eye on what your customers want, i understand you wanting to stay neutral and some people will abuse the site, but removing a lamp and in another case a rifle scope is a bit extreme, you mention that donedeal dont want to take sides but to me ye are totally one sided, i fail to see why donedeal has policies that stop people pursuing their legal field sports. and as mentioned above how is it that maceoin are in breach your policies and advertising traps, snares, lamps etc.

thanks for your reply

lefthooker

I know where your coming from smokin ace, I had a scope removed not too long ago. And as right placed as they feel their actions are their justifications are just preposterous & baffling.
Revenue is the 1 thing that will influence donedeal's stance, AutoTrader is nearly extinct since the arrival of DoneDeal.co.uk. Nothing speaks louder than when the coffers stop jingling.
Anyway were DoneDeal to reverse their decision would you feel comfortable dealing with them when they disregard such a large portion of their customers with such ease.

PS note that they have changed from .ie to .co.uk now.

DonnaDoneDeal

lefthooker wrote: »

I know where your coming from smokin ace, I had a scope removed not too long ago. And as right placed as they feel their actions are their justifications are just preposterous & baffling.
Revenue is the 1 thing that will influence donedeal's stance, AutoTrader is nearly extinct since the arrival of DoneDeal.co.uk. Nothing speaks louder than when the coffers stop jingling.
Anyway were DoneDeal to reverse their decision would you feel comfortable dealing with them when they disregard such a large portion of their customers with such ease.

PS note that they have changed from .ie to .co.uk now.

We haven't?? We are .co.uk for users in the North of Ireland and include sterling prices on that and remain .ie in the south of Ireland.

The rifle and scope debate actually stemmed from certain customers placing firearms that were far from legal under any circumstances and after a long battle to stop this abuse of the site, also certain complications in the fact that proof of license etc, are not something that we could police, we do not allow any firearm or related item on the site. It's not the ideal, I can certainly appreciate that....but again, we are trying to find the happy medium.....it's just a very difficult place to find it seems.

DonnaDoneDeal

I'd actually just like to say....thank you for all this information....I can bring this to our meetings and so that all your views are put forward so I really appreciate that!

jap gt

DonnaDoneDeal wrote: »

I'd actually just like to say....thank you for all this information....I can bring this to our meetings and so that all your views are put forward so I really appreciate that!

hopefully some changes will come from that meeting, i think most people here use your site and if changes where made will continue to do so, i for one use it for my part time business but wont continue to do so with the current situation

Sparks

DonnaDoneDeal wrote: »

certain complications in the fact that proof of license etc, are not something that we could police

A solution which allows you to still charge for advertising would be to allow the sale of firearms but through the escrow agency of a registered firearms dealer, as we recommend everyone to do when selling firearms here (though we recommend it for reasons of personal security).
It really isn't the case that it's impossible to do; we've been doing it for several years now.

DonnaDoneDeal

Sparks wrote: »

A solution which allows you to still charge for advertising would be to allow the sale of firearms but through the escrow agency of a registered firearms dealer, as we recommend everyone to do when selling firearms here (though we recommend it for reasons of personal security).
It really isn't the case that it's impossible to do; we've been doing it for several years now.

Can you email me some more info on that please??? At least then I'll have all the information when I bring it up. If you send it to support@donedeal.ie but for the attention of Donna I'll get it.

I guess my whole point is that we are trying, and we are taking all points on board. I dont know what the outcome will be, but I can gaurauntee that all your views will be heard with an open mind and be very welcome imput.

Sparks

DonnaDoneDeal wrote: »

Can you email me some more info on that please??? At least then I'll have all the information when I bring it up. If you send it to support@donedeal.ie but for the attention of Donna I'll get it.

No need, it's set out in the for sale/wanted forum charter:

1. Firearms Sales
Any firearms or components of firearms (ie anything that requires a licence or Garda Authorisation) must be sold via a registered firearms dealer. When posting these items for sale here you should have:

Quote:
Make/Model
Description
Asking price
Details of Firearms Dealer being used
Any other relevant info

We also maintain a non-exhaustive list of firearms dealers on the wiki page here, and a full list would be available from the Department of Justice, I suspect.

Another advantage, by the way, is that a firearms dealer as an escrow agent is about the most efficient way to ensure that the proper paperwork is obtained and that legal liability to your site is minimised or eliminated altogether.

I guess my whole point is that we are trying, and we are taking all points on board. I dont know what the outcome will be, but I can gaurauntee that all your views will be heard with an open mind and be very welcome imput.

Well, if it means you guys earn more money and the community here regains a service they value, I think that it's a win-win scenario.

lefthooker

DonnaDoneDeal wrote: »

We haven't?? We are .co.uk for users in the North of Ireland and include sterling prices on that and remain .ie in the south of Ireland.

Well Donna my experience is when I type donedeal.ie into the browser the page that opens is "buy and sell anything in Northern Ireland." And in the history section the page is listed as donedeal.co.uk. Maybe its just me

Grizzly 45

Hi Donna,
Thanks for coming back to us...
However,can I just point out one oddity here in your post?You say Dondeal is trying to be fair to both sides and be neutral?
On the anti side of things you have conceeded to remove any adverts regarding dogs used for illegal purposes,despite the fact that digging in certain circumstances is still legal,and sending dogs down a den after a fox to drive it out into a line of guns is still legal here as well.
Be that as it may,your justification is a blanket policy,which could be understandable as there could be certain bad eggs who would use your service for illegal purposes.
HOWEVER,shooting and hunting and all the revelant equipment including lights,irrespective of what its potential is for misuse.Is conceeding more ground to the antis and on very dubious and spurious grounds that most of us here would find hard to belive.
So thats TWO points you have given to the Antis.
Now may I ask what has Donedeal censored against the Antis???Or better still how could Donedeal censor a minority if they were to sell or advertise somthing??Are you going to refuse an advert from a humane society as they might possibly be a front for a radical animal rights terror group??

You have unfortunatly fallen into the corporate trap in Donedeal.ie of anything for a quiet life and no hassle please.IOW emotional blackmail with unspecified veiled potential threats.Which is a form of industrial sabotage and terrorism.If one minority group of radicals can do this ,now anyone can dictate your policy.Whats to stop the anti 4X4 brigade now starting a letter campaign to you to stop you aiding people selling Global warming"gas guzzlers"?? Or the militants against water sports having a go about advertising jet skis???
You have now left the door open for every crank,nutjob ,and ego tripper to decide what can or cant be sold on your site.
May I respectfully suggest that Donedeal review its policy now on this and concede most of us ligit fieldsporters will be quite happy to accept the dog wording .But banning the adverts of shooting and fishing equipment is a bridge too far in fairness??And that maybe when people like ICABS write in with their emotional blackmail aagenda the best thing to do is just hit DELETE on the computor,circular file their written stuff and issue a policy of if it is legal to own with or without restrictions under the law of the land ,purchase and use people can sell whatever the Hell they want here??and that we are not responsible for misuse of any items here advertised or sold??It is called having principles and sound busisness sense.Not to mind some spine in a politically correct world gone mad.300K potential customers Vs 30 plus Emailing radical cranks???
Seems a no brainer to me.

sincerely Grizzly45


Later,Ok lots of points coverd in previous posts.Please ignore already coverd points,as I cant type as fast as some around here

DonnaDoneDeal

lefthooker wrote: »

Well Donna my experience is when I type donedeal.ie into the browser the page that opens is "buy and sell anything in Northern Ireland." And in the history section the page is listed as donedeal.co.uk. Maybe its just me

But you're in wexford?????? I'll say it to Declan in the morning and see what he says (techie guy).

DonnaDoneDeal

Sparks wrote: »

No need, it's set out in the for sale/wanted forum charter:


We also maintain a non-exhaustive list of firearms dealers on the wiki page here, and a full list would be available from the Department of Justice, I suspect.

Another advantage, by the way, is that a firearms dealer as an escrow agent is about the most efficient way to ensure that the proper paperwork is obtained and that legal liability to your site is minimised or eliminated altogether.

Well, if it means you guys earn more money and the community here regains a service they value, I think that it's a win-win scenario.

Thanks for this, will look into it more and say it to the rest of the lads.

DonnaDoneDeal

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Hi Donna,
Thanks for coming back to us...
However,can I just point out one oddity here in your post?You say Dondeal is trying to be fair to both sides and be neutral?
On the anti side of things you have conceeded to remove any adverts regarding dogs used for illegal purposes,despite the fact that digging in certain circumstances is still legal,and sending dogs down a den after a fox to drive it out into a line of guns is still legal here as well.
Be that as it may,your justification is a blanket policy,which could be understandable as there could be certain bad eggs who would use your service for illegal purposes.
HOWEVER,shooting and hunting and all the revelant equipment including lights,irrespective of what its potential is for misuse.Is conceeding more ground to the antis and on very dubious and spurious grounds that most of us here would find hard to belive.
So thats TWO points you have given to the Antis.
Now may I ask what has Donedeal censored against the Antis???Or better still how could Donedeal censor a minority if they were to sell or advertise somthing??Are you going to refuse an advert from a humane society as they might possibly be a front for a radical animal rights terror group??

You have unfortunatly fallen into the corporate trap in Donedeal.ie of anything for a quiet life and no hassle please.IOW emotional blackmail with unspecified veiled potential threats.Which is a form of industrial sabotage and terrorism.If one minority group of radicals can do this ,now anyone can dictate your policy.Whats to stop the anti 4X4 brigade now starting a letter campaign to you to stop you aiding people selling Global warming"gas guzzlers"?? Or the militants against water sports having a go about advertising jet skis???
You have now left the door open for every crank,nutjob ,and ego tripper to decide what can or cant be sold on your site.
May I respectfully suggest that Donedeal review its policy now on this and concede most of us ligit fieldsporters will be quite happy to accept the dog wording .But banning the adverts of shooting and fishing equipment is a bridge too far in fairness??And that maybe when people like ICABS write in with their emotional blackmail aagenda the best thing to do is just hit DELETE on the computor,circular file their written stuff and issue a policy of if it is legal to own with or without restrictions under the law of the land ,purchase and use people can sell whatever the Hell they want here??and that we are not responsible for misuse of any items here advertised or sold??It is called having principles and sound busisness sense.Not to mind some spine in a politically correct world gone mad.300K potential customers Vs 30 plus Emailing radical cranks???
Seems a no brainer to me.

sincerely Grizzly45


Later,Ok lots of points coverd in previous posts.Please ignore already coverd points,as I cant type as fast as some around here

The unfortunate thing is both sides of the argument are not happy, both sides of the argument have valid points and although you may not see it, we have no more given to one side or the other.

I will bring all these points to the rest of the team and will continue to voice any points that you guys raise.

One final admission.....one thing we are NOT is corporate.....spend ten minutes with us and you would see that a mile off lol! It's not about corporate, or siding with one view over another, we are genuinely trying to keep the site as fair to everyone as possible, but unfortunately, it is not possible to please all of the people all of the time. I do know this.....but I will bloody well try lol!!!

BUACHAILL

DonnaDoneDeal wrote: »

The unfortunate thing is both sides of the argument are not happy, both sides of the argument have valid points and although you may not see it, we have no more given to one side or the other.

I will bring all these points to the rest of the team and will continue to voice any points that you guys raise.

One final admission.....one thing we are NOT is corporate.....spend ten minutes with us and you would see that a mile off lol! It's not about corporate, or siding with one view over another, we are genuinely trying to keep the site as fair to everyone as possible, but unfortunately, it is not possible to please all of the people all of the time. I do know this.....but I will bloody well try lol!!!

Donna I appreciate your points on this but can you simply explain just one thing in all this. anti or not why can people not sell things which are legally accepted ?? I mean not all people agree with cars as they harm the environment but yet if they asked to delete all the cars on the site you would laugh !! Please explain what is different in this case ? yet if someone came on and said I am selling a robbed car you would delete it and rightly so but the outcome of legalised equipment is that you remove it, why ? its legal to own, use and sell ? what is the argument seriously ? by removing these as you are you are saying everyone is abusing these sports by killing animals yet like it or not it is very much legal and a part of society so I really dont buy your argument that you remain neutral !!

By remaining neutral your response to anti people would be that these items are legal and in everyday use, until such time that you donedeal have proof of abuse there is simply nothing wrong with the add but if you thought for one second abuse was being carried out common sense would prevail and add be removed, I honestly do not think anyone could argue with this response !!

Just for the record I put on average 20 adds a week through Donedeal, that stops now until this idiotic mentality remains and thats not a punch at you personally.

Sparks

DonnaDoneDeal wrote: »

The unfortunate thing is both sides of the argument are not happy, both sides of the argument have valid points

To be honest, the two ideologies aren't really factors in any sound business decision. It boils down to a cost/benefit analysis. Personally, I think it's a fairly simply analysis at that, but in the end, much as I like your spirit of engaging with your customers, it doesn't really matter which way the decision goes, except to donedeal.ie. Folks selling firearms and other such items will use whomever provides the service; if that's not donedeal.ie, it'll just be another site.

DonnaDoneDeal

BUACHAILL wrote: »

Donna I appreciate your points on this but can you simply explain just one thing in all this. anti or not why can people not sell things which are legally accepted ?? I mean not all people agree with cars as they harm the environment but yet if they asked to delete all the cars on the site you would laugh !! Please explain what is different in this case ? yet if someone came on and said I am selling a robbed car you would delete it and rightly so but the outcome of legalised equipment is that you remove it, why ? its legal to own, use and sell ? what is the argument seriously ? by removing these as you are you are saying everyone is abusing these sports by killing animals yet like it or not it is very much legal and a part of society so I really dont buy your argument that you remain neutral !!

By remaining neutral your response to anti people would be that these items are legal and in everyday use, until such time that you donedeal have proof of abuse there is simply nothing wrong with the add but if you thought for one second abuse was being carried out common sense would prevail and add be removed, I honestly do not think anyone could argue with this response !!

Just for the record I put on average 20 adds a week through Donedeal, that stops now until this idiotic mentality remains and thats not a punch at you personally.

I am sorry to hear that, and I do appreciate its not a punch at me personally, but thank you for saying that Our policies are a combination or what is legal or illegal, what can be deemed offensive, and what can be successfully monitored. Some items (like the lamp) are not necessarily the issue....the use of the term Lamping we have chosen to not allow on our site, not the item itself. This does not satisfy the opposers, but this was what we deemed the best option for DoneDeal. I do see your points and will bring all forward for further review.

BUACHAILL

so all this is boiling down to some terminology ?

so if i said animal hunting lamp would it be accepted ?

unfortunately you are being deemed offensive, to every genuine fieldsports person out there. funny thing is if you actually put up a proper field sports section with a notice on it stating that its everything involved in the sports and some may find offensive I think the section would make donedeal an absolute fortune, firearms should be sold as stated by Sparks !!

Grizzly 45

One final admission.....one thing we are NOT is corporate.....spend ten minutes with us and you would see that a mile off lol! It's not about corporate, or siding with one view over another, we are genuinely trying to keep the site as fair to everyone as possible, but unfortunately, it is not possible to please all of the people all of the time. I do know this.....but I will bloody well try lol!!!

[/QUOTE]

Without trying to sound patronising ,the principle of what is being done is the same wether you are a sole trader or a corporation,company etc.[And I do hope you do get to be a corporate entity as well somdayl:)]

Would think the antis have got their point to you about the dogs adverts.So you have shown them fairness,all we are asking for is that ligit equipment revelant to our sport isnt pulled because of excessive PC ness to an opposing view.Would that not be very fair??

homerhop

The policy is straight out of a Gormless strategy........we are not trying to alienate rural Ireland while bringing in more policies to abolish our sports and lifestyle.
Donna it is one thing to come in here and talk the talk about fairness and equality but the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Our sport, be it lamping, shooting or fishing is not illegal. We as a group do not use the antics that the antis use, but at this stage I am wondering why we dont. If a hand full of antis can dictate how you run your site so easily, how happy would you be if we hilighted the fact that donedeal is an anti shooting anti fishing web site in all the discussion forums and web sites involved in those activities. I reckon your system would jam up pretty fast with email. That seems to be the tactic that works for the anti brigade, and I am sick to the back teeth of a minority being able to sway things in their favour so easily.

Why are these being advertised?
http://www.donedeal.ie/find/horses/for-sale/Ireland/Hunter

or these?
http://www.donedeal.ie/find/otheranimals/for-sale/Ireland/ferrets?source=all

badshot

if they r'e so worried about animal cruelty
they should stop selling pups that are quiet
clearly either from puppy farms or very
undernourished.

tfox

Has anyone come up with a group email we can all copy and paste and send off to donedeal to voice our disappoinment in their stance on this subject ....?

rrpc

lefthooker wrote: »

Well Donna my experience is when I type donedeal.ie into the browser the page that opens is "buy and sell anything in Northern Ireland." And in the history section the page is listed as donedeal.co.uk. Maybe its just me

It really depend on where in your browser you're typing it in. If it's into a search engine search box, then it could be that the first thing in the search list is donedeal.co.uk and that depends entirely on the search engine.

If you type it into the address bar of your browser, then it's either a fault with the website that's detecting your ip address and redirecting you according to the presumed geographical location of that ip address or the fact that your ip address is one that's been allocated to a different geographical location than the ROI, in which case the fault is with your ISP.

One way to tell if it's the donedeal website or your ISP, is to type http://www.google.com into your address bar and press enter. If you come up with google.ie, your ip address is an Irish one, if it's google.co.uk then your ip address is not an Irish one.

lefthooker

rrpc wrote: »

It really depend on where in your browser you're typing it in. If it's into a search engine search box, then it could be that the first thing in the search list is donedeal.co.uk and that depends entirely on the search engine.

If you type it into the address bar of your browser, then it's either a fault with the website that's detecting your ip address and redirecting you according to the presumed geographical location of that ip address or the fact that your ip address is one that's been allocated to a different geographical location than the ROI, in which case the fault is with your ISP.

One way to tell if it's the donedeal website or your ISP, is to type http://www.google.com into your address bar and press enter. If you come up with google.ie, your ip address is an Irish
one, if it's google.co.uk then your ip address is not an Irish one.

Thanks rrpc but I had bookmarked DoneDeal years ago so would enter that way. The address with the bookmark is donedeal.ie. So I entered donedeal.ie into the address bar & still got directed to the northern site. Only noticed this in the last week. Its not a big deal as all the ads are listed anyway. My ISP is a major mobile operator with a .Ie address & my geographical location is appro 20mins from DoneDeals office

rrpc

lefthooker wrote: »

Thanks rrpc but I had bookmarked DoneDeal years ago so would enter that way. The address with the bookmark is donedeal.ie. So I entered donedeal.ie into the address bar & still got directed to the northern site. Only noticed this in the last week. Its not a big deal as all the ads are listed anyway. My ISP is a major mobile operator with a .Ie address & my geographical location is appro 20mins from DoneDeals office

Your geographical location really has no bearing on your ip address issued by your ISP (other than if they have local servers allocating them). You haven't named your ISP, but I'd hazard a guess it's vodafone.

Their website domain really is irrelevant to the issue as anyone with an Irish business or base can get a .ie address.

You can check what location your ip address is associated with here. Down near the bottom of the page under all the ads it'll give something like this:

P Address: XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX
Hostname: XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX
IP Country: Ireland
IP Country Code: IRL
IP Continent: Europe
IP Region: Dublin
Guessed City: Dublin
IP Latitude: 53.3331
IP Longitude: -6.2489
Organization: Vodafone Ireland Limited
ISP Provider: Vodafone Ireland Limited

I'm not in Dublin btw, but the server that allocated my ip is.

DonnaDoneDeal

Morning guys,

Sorry, I seem to have made you guys all angry more than anything else, that was not my intention and I apologies. I know some of our policies are not how you would like them, to be honest, there's alot of people that don't agree with our policies as it stops them selling certain items.

We have put our policies in place for the general best interest, including the welfare of animals aswell as the interests of legitimate hunters that are hunting by the book. Unfortunately, I dont think we are ever going to make everyone happy as both sides seem to want complete support of their opinions and views and we are unable to do that. However, like I have said above, I will bring all your views to the rest of the team for review again. Unfortunately that is all I can do at the moment.