DoneDeal no-hunting/shooting policy - Read mod note #138

lefthooker

rrpc wrote: »

Your geographical location really has no bearing on your ip address issued by your ISP (other than if they have local servers allocating them). You haven't named your ISP, but I'd hazard a guess it's vodafone.

Their website domain really is irrelevant to the issue as anyone with an Irish business or base can get a .ie address.

You can check what location your ip address is associated with here. Down near the bottom of the page under all the ads it'll give something like this:

P Address: XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX
Hostname: XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX
IP Country: Ireland
IP Country Code: IRL
IP Continent: Europe
IP Region: Dublin
Guessed City: Dublin
IP Latitude: 53.3331
IP Longitude: -6.2489
Organization: Vodafone Ireland Limited
ISP Provider: Vodafone Ireland Limited

I'm not in Dublin btw, but the server that allocated my ip is.

Makes sense now. I'm with vodafone alright although my ISP is RIM UK according to the location finder. & since there's no city detected it takes GBR as my location. Thanks for clearing that up rrpc

kildare.17hmr

DonnaDoneDeal wrote: »

Morning guys,

Sorry, I seem to have made you guys all angry more than anything else, that was not my intention and I apologies. I know some of our policies are not how you would like them, to be honest, there's alot of people that don't agree with our policies as it stops them selling certain items.

We have put our policies in place for the general best interest, including the welfare of animals aswell as the interests of legitimate hunters that are hunting by the book. Unfortunately, I dont think we are ever going to make everyone happy as both sides seem to want complete support of their opinions and views and we are unable to do that. However, like I have said above, I will bring all your views to the rest of the team for review again. Unfortunately that is all I can do at the moment.

Donna i dont think its you that has made anyone angry, I for 1 appriciate you comming here as quick as you did you have said you have taken all our points on board which i believe you have and will bring them up with the rest of your team. I do think grizzly and sparks(sorry if i got that wrong!) have pointed out very good ways for donedeal to profit from the fieldsport community by having a dedicated section with a header warning people that some of the content "may offend" and only "legal" itims may be sold ect with any ad selling illegal or implying missuse of itims will be deleted. I think it would show donedeal are doing alot more in being neutral and complying with the law

rrpc

DonnaDoneDeal wrote: »

We have put our policies in place for the general best interest, including the welfare of animals aswell as the interests of legitimate hunters that are hunting by the book. Unfortunately, I dont think we are ever going to make everyone happy as both sides seem to want complete support of their opinions and views and we are unable to do that. However, like I have said above, I will bring all your views to the rest of the team for review again. Unfortunately that is all I can do at the moment.

Donna, you've referred above to the 'welfare of animals' which is a very broad area indeed. The threats to wildlife in this country are many and varied including destruction of habitats through bad planning decisions, road development and other non-native species.

The latter is one of the most thorny subjects, but you should be aware that species such as Mink, Grey squirrels and Muntjac deer are removing native species at an alarming rate. The point here is that the interests of hunters and animal welfare are not as diametrically opposed as you and your company seem to believe.

There aren't 'sides' in this debate, except in the minds of those who haven't engaged their critical faculties in the pursuit of a flawed ideology.

johngalway

tfox wrote: »

Has anyone come up with a group email we can all copy and paste and send off to donedeal to voice our disappoinment in their stance on this subject ....?

I would imagine a lot of individual emails would have more of an impact than a lot of the same emails.

It's not hard to write. Have you used DoneDeal in the past, will you in the future, have you recommended it, will you in the future, read their policies and say what you feel is wrong and why.

There are a lot more people hunting and farming than there are anti's, laziness is the only problem!

DonnaDoneDeal

rrpc wrote: »

Donna, you've referred above to the 'welfare of animals' which is a very broad area indeed. The threats to wildlife in this country are many and varied including destruction of habitats through bad planning decisions, road development and other non-native species.

The latter is one of the most thorny subjects, but you should be aware that species such as Mink, Grey squirrels and Muntjac deer are removing native species at an alarming rate. The point here is that the interests of hunters and animal welfare are not as diametrically opposed as you and your company seem to believe.

There aren't 'sides' in this debate, except in the minds of those who haven't engaged their critical faculties in the pursuit of a flawed ideology.

I actually do know that and that has always been my point when we have discussed it here as mink killed all my parents chickens so often that they just gave up trying to keep them in the end of it all. And foxes got my sisters so I have and will continue to bring up these matters.

kildare.17hmr

Took me about half an hour but i wrote my letter to donedeal. hands are sore now from typing

DonnaDoneDeal

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

any ad selling illegal or implying missuse of itims will be deleted.

I actually think that you have some very good ideas here, however, the piece that i have quoted...the cost of policing and monitoring people that do misuse is what lead to a blanket restriction on certain items on our site. We have considered all of your ideas and suggestions and will continue to do so..I will bring all of this to our next meeting.

kildare.17hmr

DonnaDoneDeal wrote: »

I actually think that you have some very good ideas here, however, the piece that i have quoted...the cost of policing and monitoring people that do misuse is what lead to a blanket restriction on certain items on our site. We have considered all of your ideas and suggestions and will continue to do so..I will bring all of this to our next meeting.

I would imagine all it would take is a little report buttom on every ad(like we have here) and someone with a bit of knolege at the other end picking up the reports like is being done at the moment. for instance, there is an ad in th "fieldsports section" for a lamping kit, someone hits the report button and an email is sent to you guys, you see it is nothing illegal and leave it as it is. now another add is selling say a badger snare, someone reports it and as its illegal its deleted and reported to the guardi maybe. seems simple enough to police as you say and i would imagine its all that is required by law

DonnaDoneDeal

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

I would imagine all it would take is a little report buttom on every ad(like we have here) and someone with a bit of knolege at the other end picking up the reports like is being done at the moment. for instance, there is an ad in th "fieldsports section" for a lamping kit, someone hits the report button and an email is sent to you guys, you see it is nothing illegal and leave it as it is. now another add is selling say a badger snare, someone reports it and as its illegal its deleted and reported to the guardi maybe. seems simple enough to police as you say and i would imagine its all that is required by law

This may seem simple....however in practice it is not....we have to research each ad and each legality and issue....and we have over 1.5million individual people going onto our site every month.....in that volume, it is certainly not an easy of cheap task.
However, as I stated above, I will bring all this information to the rest of the team and get back to you guys when I have some new info......

Grizzly 45

Well, heres a solution then..Why dont we give you a list of stuff that only ligit hunters and trappers and gunowners would use?That way you have a guideline and idea what is ligit and isnt,and what the antis are trying to meddle in preventing being sold??
Example traps.Illegal would be leg hold or gin traps. Larsen traps for catching magpies and crows are legal,despite the antis trying to ban them and coercing companies to stop advertising them.

Personally,I think the idea of a fieldsports section could make donedeal a lot of money.Just put in some ground rules like maybe make it a restricted section to anyone under age 18? Verify it by a valid credit card number or age check?? That all firearm sales must be done via dealer escrow,and that items for sale might likely offend some people..
After all if Exchange and Mart can run a adult section with call girls and dominatrixes advertising their services,in the printed copy.How difficult could it be for DD.IE to set up a "adult section for fieldsports??

kildare.17hmr

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Well, heres a solution then..Why dont we give you a list of stuff that only ligit hunters and trappers and gunowners would use?That way you have a guideline and idea what is ligit and isnt,and what the antis are trying to meddle in preventing being sold??
Example traps.Illegal would be leg hold or gin traps. Larsen traps for catching magpies and crows are legal,despite the antis trying to ban them and coercing companies to stop advertising them.

Personally,I think the idea of a fieldsports section could make donedeal a lot of money.Just put in some ground rules like maybe make it a restricted section to anyone under age 18? Verify it by a valid credit card number or age check?? That all firearm sales must be done via dealer escrow,and that items for sale might likely offend some people..
After all if Exchange and Mart can run a adult section with call girls and dominatrixes advertising their services,in the printed copy.How difficult could it be for DD.IE to set up a "adult section for fieldsports??

I agreee with most of what you said grizzly but the over 18 thing id say would be a step too far, after all you dont have to be over 18 to participate in fieldsports. I think something simple like a warning that comes up when you click into a relivent section and you must agree to enter as some things may offend would be suficient so that way no one is being forced to look at anything they do not want to. so if someone gets offended it is their own doing as they have been warned

kildare.17hmr

Hi Kevin,

Thank you for contacting us.

We have been contacted several times today about the ad that was removed due to the use of the word "Lamping". The ad was removed as this term is not allowed, as per our terms and conditions:
http://help.donedeal.ie/info/dog-policy

However, we regularly review our terms and conditions and I will certainly raise your concerns when we are reviewing them in the near future.
All the best

Emer

http://www.donedeal.ie

No answers to questions, only focused on one small part of the email i sent them and the reply is just the same thing they send everyone else id say. IMO not very good customer service. i reckon if we put enough pressure on they will have no choice but to review their policy

jap gt

Thank you for contacting us.

We have a firearms and knives policy which you can see here:
http://help.donedeal.ie/info/firearms-policy

We regularly review our terms and conditions and assure you that if we feel a change is needed after discussing matters that have been raised, the relevant changes will be made. I will bring your concerns up at the next review for consideration.
All the best

Emer

i must say donedeal are really letting themselves down with their replies

smokin ace

i have to thank donna from done deal a lot for getting back to all of us and its not down to donna to make decisions on policy on the website but there has been some excellent ideas put forward by people here for done deal to conciser on the sale of field sports equipment and done deal but will it make much difference i dont know and only time will tell
but i think it will be a very bad idea for done deal to let all current policy's stand on field sports equipment

i just hope that done deal wont do what most irish company's do just sit tight and hope it blows over in a week or two and carry on without changing a thing

Birdnuts

Ireland has some of the most law-abiding and conservation conscious hunters in the EU and beyond. This no-hunting policy by DD makes no sense in that context.:(

PS: Someone mentioned ICABS could be behind this nonsense - if thats the case it further highlights the growing menace that this extreme group of ecological iliterates represent to Irelands legitimate field sports and Natural Heritage:mad:

cavan shooter

I note that Buy and sell have a similiar if not better worded policies, have a look;)

http://www.buyandsell.ie/support/advertising_policies

smokin ace

we all understand there has to be some kind of rules and regulations on selling on a website and no one argues that point but when the regulations are taken a step to far and end up ring fencing a sector of society and not letting them advertising hunting equipment thats within the law and make them feel like they are doing something very wrong when clearly there not thats what we all have a problem with and thats why we should stand up and let these people know that hunting and country sports is a way of life for some people and that its only a handful of people that break wildlife laws and that give the country sport folk of this country a bad name

pedroeibar1

DonnaDoneDeal wrote: »

.......... as mink killed all my parents chickens so often that they just gave up trying to keep them in the end of it all. And foxes got my sisters so I have and will continue to bring up these matters.

Really sorry about your sisters. Hope you don't miss them too much.
P.

vixdname

Jaysus thats terrible about your sisters - them feckin foxes are getting bolder the whole time - next we'll have one running for election !!!

kildare.17hmr

Birdnuts wrote: »

PS: Someone mentioned ICABS could be behind this nonsense - if thats the case it further highlights the growing menace that this extreme group of ecological iliterates represent to Irelands legitimate field sports and Natural Heritage:mad:

from their websit birdnuts

Join our appeal against ads for blood sport dogs
02 September 2010

Back in March, we thanked Wexford-based classified ads website Donedeal for updating its dogs policy and promising to prevent ads for blood sports dogs from appearing on its website. Sadly, ads for dogs used in hunting, baiting, digging-out and terrierwork have continued to be displayed on the website.
Their policy clearly states that "we do not accept ads that imply that the dog could/should be used for...killing prey" and "we do not accept ads that mention or imply digging" and "we do not allow ads that mention lamping".
However, adverts for such dogs continue to be displayed on the website on an ongoing basis. Among the dogs listed as "Sold" on the website this month were

• A Patterdale dog that "will make a very good hunter"
• A working terrier that is "great in hard cover & ditches - goes through like train"
• A patterdale that is "just starting to work"
• A working Patterdale terrier which "will do a black and white and will do red lads" (badgers and foxes)

ACTION ALERT
Please join us in urging Donedeal to act to deny those involved in blood sports the opportunity to use its website as a platform for selling dogs used in attacking and killing wildlife. Ask Donedeal to introduce a screening process for dog adverts to prevent ads from being displayed if they contravene the company's policy or refer to illegal activities.
Donedeal
Unit B, Tuskar House,
Johns Gate Street, Wexford
Email: [EMAIL="hello@donedeal.ie?bcc=info@banbloodsports.com&subject=Please stop displaying ads for dogs used in cruel blood sports&body=Dear Sir/Madam%0A%0AI am writing to appeal to you to please act urgently to prevent the display on the Donedeal website of adverts for dogs used in cruel blood sports.%0A%0AYour policy states that you do not accept ads that imply that the advertised dogs could be used for killing prey. However, such ads continue to appear on your website on an ongoing basis.%0A%0AYou have stated that when these ads are reported, you take action. This does not solve the problem - when and if the ad is reported, it may have been viewed hundreds of times and a sale secured.%0A%0APlease act now to stop those involved in blood sports from using your site as a platform for selling dogs used in cruelly attacking and killing Irish wildlife. Please filter out ads that contravene your policy BEFORE they are displayed on your site.%0A%0AThank you.%0A%0AYours sincerely,%0A%0A[Name/Location]"]hello@donedeal.ie[/EMAIL]
Website: www.donedeal.ie For more information on our campaign against terrierwork, click on Campaigns at www.banbloodsports.com

cavan shooter

this was discussed at length in another thread a while back and the consensus i believe was fairly scathing to the people posting ads like that.

I remember making the point that the wording of the adds where not exactly thought through, where they, the graphic descriptions was a bit OTT .......

Any way are we finished with Done Deal yet, Tell me when we start on Buy and Sell:D and do we have to open a different thread.

Birdnuts

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

from their websit birdnuts

OMG!! - What planet are these fools on??!!:mad::mad:


PS: This would be funny if it wasn't for the fact that it appears some in power actually take these fruit loops seriously

kildare.17hmr

Birdnuts wrote: »

OMG!! - What planet are these fools on??!!:mad::mad:


PS: This would be funny if it wasn't for the fact that it appears some in power actually take these fruit loops seriously

Take a look at their website that is only the tip of the iceberg:rolleyes:

Cavan shooter, i just read buy and sells terms and conditions, feel free to start that one sure we might as well keep going:D

Birdnuts

If the likes of ICABS get their way on this I can see them targeting adds relating to everything from mouse traps, falconry etc. to food for pet tarantulas!!:rolleyes::(

smokin ace

cavan shooter wrote: »

this was discussed at length in another thread a while back and the consensus i believe was fairly scathing to the people posting ads like that.

I remember making the point that the wording of the adds where not exactly thought through, where they, the graphic descriptions was a bit OTT .......

Any way are we finished with Done Deal yet, Tell me when we start on Buy and Sell:D and do we have to open a different thread.

lets give the powers that be at done deal a chance to come back to us and see if they change some of there terms and conditions of there adds and if we hear nothing back from them we can take it they dont want anyones business and money for adds thats involved in legitimate country sports and then we will all know that they are a total anit-hunting website and another one trying to put a nail in the coffin of legitimate country sports men and women of this country

4gun

DonnaDoneDeal wrote: »

I am sorry to hear that, and I do appreciate its not a punch at me personally, but thank you for saying that Our policies are a combination or what is legal or illegal, what can be deemed offensive, and what can be successfully monitored. Some items (like the lamp) are not necessarily the issue....the use of the term Lamping we have chosen to not allow on our site, not the item itself. This does not satisfy the opposers, but this was what we deemed the best option for DoneDeal. I do see your points and will bring all forward for further review.

What about a chap selling a horse as a Hunter, or some one selling a Fox terrier..
I think there are more pro shooting people using you site than anti,
as in Grizzly post what happens when Vegan militants take offence at your site for selling Chicken and Turkey pullets or other live stock,
make a stand for common sense..
Hunting is as natural to nature as water is to the earth..any one who cannot see that does not understand the natural cycle

4gun

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

Took me about half an hour but i wrote my letter to donedeal. hands are sore now from typing

did likewise as promised

Grizzly 45

For those who would like to know what exactly they are dealing with...

Founded in 1966,It is registerd as a limited company in companies Registration Office [CRO] Dublin Co reg nr 114126.

Last time I looked at their annual returns in 1995,[the year one of their directors resigned for being naughty at the law in Dec 1994 at a hunt meet in Waterford] .
Their gross turn over was 23,934 PUNTS thats 30,389 EUROS.Somhow I doubt that ICABS has become a multi million Euro ,Fortune 500 company in the last 15 Celtic Tiger years.But if anyone wants to see if they have www.cro.ie should have the latest details.

Membership,well at the Clonmel coursing 2010,they managed to get all of appx TEN people to protest at the gates.This is from the organisation that claims to repersent the "majority" of Irish people opposed to bloodsports! Excuse was the weather was too bad for more people to travel to protest..Somone forgot to tell that to the thousands
at Clonmel that day!!
Along with their multiple membership of people belonging to ARAN,AFAR,CACS and DHS ,and WHS the hardcore activists are all of appx 50 people in Ireland in total.

Compared to Rural Ireland Says Enough ..putting what 20[?] thousand on its first demo on the streets in Waterford.
Where the other self appointed organisation of Irelands opposition to bloodsports [ARAN] managed four individuals hiding under their banner.The weather was very good on that day ...

Conserative estimate each fieldsports person spends willingly or unwillingy into the Irish economy appx 3thousand Euros per Annum.Multiply that by over 500k people in Ireland who enjoy some form of country sports.Thats a serious hunk of change for some enterprising soul who is pro fieldsports and computor savvy to set up their own website,and cash in on a market.:D

Grizzly 45

Birdnuts wrote: »

OMG!! - What planet are these fools on??!!:mad::mad:


PS: This would be funny if it wasn't for the fact that it appears some in power actually take these fruit loops seriously

Never a truer word spoken! Take a look at their pro politico pals.[sorry for the alliteration]
John Gormless,Trevor Seargent,Patrica Mac Kenna,
Two pesidential possibles :( Sen David Norris,Micheal D Higgins,
and on the ICABS page you will find a politicans page,both pro and anti.

Make use of it people
!!.Email the people who support us and email the ones who dont to tell them dont bother showing up on your doorstep when their job review time comes up!!;)

weldersmask

• A Patterdale dog that "will make a very good hunter"
• A working terrier that is "great in hard cover & ditches - goes through like train"
• A patterdale that is "just starting to work"
• A working Patterdale terrier which "will do a black and white and will do red lads" (badgers and foxes)

i see nothing wrong with the first three , the last ,well !!!it would begger belief that somebody would post an add like that with a phone number, i don't believe for a minute it's genuine