How Bout Dem Bears?

padraig_f

Oat23 wrote: »

Fox confirmed

https://twitter.com/ChicagoBears/status/556183516019302400

Trying to be optimistic, and then I'm reading Bill Simmons' column today on Brady and Manning at similar stages of their career last weekend...

And then there’s this: Last weekend, Brady had Belichick, who graduated from the “greatest football coaches ever” conversation and threw his Patriots ski cap into the “greatest sports coaches ever” conversation after that Baltimore game. Manning had John Fox … who “mutually parted ways” with Denver 24 hours after they lost. And if you watched both games closely, you noticed a decidedly different urgency from the Patriots and their fans — they could feel the Grim Reaper coming, not just for that day, but for the entire Brady era. And they ramped it up accordingly.

Compare that experience to what Manning had on Sunday — frustrated fans, receivers jogging aimlessly through do-or-die routes, a coaching staff inexplicably lacking any sense of desperation. Same dire situation, totally different outcome. Manning has played for four coaches; Brady has played for one. Brady’s coach would have rolled out the Kitchen Sink during that Colts-Broncos game. Manning’s coach just stood there and watched.

Plus them being annihilated in the Super Bowl last year, plus them losing to a Ravens team with inferior talent the year before.

I see a lot of journalists quoting Fox's win loss record. Seems somewhat simplistic to me. You need to look at the coaching in isolation, and decide was it great. To me it wasn't. I'd have gone for one of the up-and-coming co-ordinators who at least have a chance of being a great head-coach.

We're in a division with arguably the best QB in the NFL, we need to be great to make the playoffs. Just being decent doesn't cut it.

But upside, you get back to respectability, you maybe sneak into the playoffs with 10-11 wins, and I suppose then you always have a chance.

padraig_f

Apparently we're going after the Tennessee Titans tight-ends coach for our OC...

Bears ask permission to interview Mike Mularkey for OC

Realt Dearg Sec

New ST coach coming from the Broncos. My immediate reaction is that this is, at best, underwhelming. His record is not good, and according to the stats they link in the article below, they actually managed to be worse than we were last year. We just better get some serious operators for DC and OC, that's all I can say, because I have my hopes pretty high about improving our coordinators, and if they can't even improve on DeCamillis then it sets off some alarm bells.

http://www.windycitygridiron.com/2015/1/19/7852787/chicago-bears-hire-jeff-rodgers-as-special-teams-coordinator

SameOleJay

We got Fangio boys.

Realt Dearg Sec

SameOleJay wrote: »

We got Fangio boys.

Holy ****, that's fantastic news, what a catch! I mean, the only way was up, but that is serious cause for optimism.

padraig_f

SameOleJay wrote: »

We got Fangio boys.

That's great news. Fox's teams have been pretty good defensively, and with Fangio, the team could really excel on that side of the ball. Some good brains as well for the upcoming draft. I got the impression from Pace he was very open to drawing on other people for their expertise.

adrian522

Good appointment, it will need Fox to let Fangio do his thing with the defense. In SF he had complete control over the scheme, philosophy etc. I think that would be a requirement to get the best out of him.

I wish him well he was treated very badly by SF.

Not sure if Donatell is coming with him but he got a lot of credit for getting the most out of a secondary without any superstars and usually picked up cheap free agents and had sucess with them.

Think guys like Carlos Rodgers, Donte Whitner, Dashon Goldson etc who all came in cheap did very well in SF then didn't seem as good when they moved elsewhere.

Now all you guys need is a QB.

Realt Dearg Sec

adrian522 wrote: »

Good appointment, it will need Fox to let Fangio do his thing with the defense. In SF he had complete control over the scheme, philosophy etc. I think that would be a requirement to get the best out of him.

I wish him well he was treated very badly by SF.

Not sure if Donatell is coming with him but he got a lot of credit for getting the most out of a secondary without any superstars and usually picked up cheap free agents and had sucess with them.

Think guys like Carlos Rodgers, Donte Whitner, Dashon Goldson etc who all came in cheap did very well in SF then didn't seem as good when they moved elsewhere.

Now all you guys need is a QB.

And an OC. And a CB, at least one safety, two linebackers, and about three new OL and DL men, a new RB and a speedy WR. But sure it's a start.

As it happens Fangio was deciding between us and Washington so I imagine he was promised a fairly high degree of control. Looks like Chicago are now joining Michigan in benefiting from your FO bull****, from what I had been reading plenty would be happy to have Fangio as a HC, let alone a DC.

padraig_f

adrian522 wrote: »

Good appointment, it will need Fox to let Fangio do his thing with the defense. In SF he had complete control over the scheme, philosophy etc. I think that would be a requirement to get the best out of him.

I wish him well he was treated very badly by SF.

Not sure if Donatell is coming with him but he got a lot of credit for getting the most out of a secondary without any superstars and usually picked up cheap free agents and had sucess with them.

Think guys like Carlos Rodgers, Donte Whitner, Dashon Goldson etc who all came in cheap did very well in SF then didn't seem as good when they moved elsewhere.

Now all you guys need is a QB.

Delighted with that, used to watch that 49ers defense the last few years with envy, the front 7 in particular. Just the intensity, discipline and organisation they played with. Obviously a large part is players, and other coaches to an extent, but if you get the DC, you have a chance of emulating it.

Spongey1975

Im just curious does this mean we are converting to a 3-4 scheme as Fangio ran in SF. We dont really have the personnel for that considering our investment in Allen, Houston and Young at DE. Unless they can convert to outside LBs alongside McClellin. That being said i'm delighted with the appointment

Oat23

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPw-3e_pzqU

Realt Dearg Sec

Spongey1975 wrote: »

Im just curious does this mean we are converting to a 3-4 scheme as Fangio ran in SF. We dont really have the personnel for that considering our investment in Allen, Houston and Young at DE. Unless they can convert to outside LBs alongside McClellin. That being said i'm delighted with the appointment

He's run a 4-3 in the past as well

kennyb3

Great news about fangio. Anyone not named Mel tucker is a massive upgrade

aaronm13

So is Tucker officially gone now or is it just a matter of time.

Oat23

Trest has landed in Baltimore as Ravens OC.

https://twitter.com/Ravens/status/557636376225914880

mikemac1

Is Trestman run heavy? And does he use a zone blocking scheme?

Sorry for the questions, I read a lot about Trestman the head coach and the QB guru but how does his running game work?

SameOleJay

He completely abandoned the run last year, to the astonishment of most on here.

I think it's a brave appointment with a high ceiling but clear risk attached. His work with Josh McCown was awesome and suggested he operated best with the poised, weaker armed west coast game-manager. Of course that doesn't align itself with Flacco at all. Last year he just lost the plot but I can't tell how much of that was the team phoning it in or his play calling killing us.

It's a total departure from Kubiak anyway, that's for sure.

mikemac1

Kubiak's focus on rollouts, play action and long shots down the field was just perfect for Flacco. And the run heavy offense was welcome too!

I'm reading Trestman puts much more of an emphasis on short passes.
He may work out, he seems to have a top reputation but this could blow up too. We'll see

Thanks for the info

Realt Dearg Sec

mikemac1 wrote: »

Kubiak's focus on rollouts, play action and long shots down the field was just perfect for Flacco. And the run heavy offense was welcome too!

I'm reading Trestman puts much more of an emphasis on short passes.
He may work out, he seems to have a top reputation but this could blow up too. We'll see

Thanks for the info

I'm not sure what level of control over play calling he would have in Baltimore but that would be a major weakness in his game. He is very poor at making adjustments when the game plan has been figured out, or at least he was in the second year here. His tendency to abandon the run very early in games if we went even a little behind was a waste of forte.

That having been said, I think bears fans opinion of him has been clouded by this season. His first year he had both Cutler and McCown humming, he developed a great game plan to use our big receiving duo. It fell apart in year two, and in part that was attributed to trouble dealing with the locker room. That was worrying since his supposed leadership was one of the reasons he was hired. In the second year, to his credit, he developed ways of using forte in the passing game that was very interesting for the first few weeks, and Bennett got some interesting roles in the short game too.

I think he's a flawed had coach, but his position in Chicago was poison very early this season and I think with a little time not scrambling to deal with a collapsing campaign, scrambling to answer a deeply critical and vocal press, and thinking through what went wrong last year, along with not being so much in the public eye (he seems to reserved to deal with the press when it's going wrong) and having a better qb, he might do ok.

Don't be shocked if your offense isn't as good next year, but it might well be. The old Trest Coast Offense has been figured out though, he'll need to evolve, but it seems like a good organisation for that to happen smoothly.

mikemac1

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

I'm not sure what level of control over play calling he would have in Baltimore

100% control

Harbaugh doesn't call plays or overrule the coordinators. He has the power to do it, he just doesn't. The coordinators have full freedom to do what they wish

Thank you Bears fans for the info

kennyb3

aaronm13 wrote: »

So is Tucker officially gone now or is it just a matter of time.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/20/bears-hiring-three-assistants-part-ways-with-mel-tucker/

aaronm13

kennyb3 wrote: »

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/20/bears-hiring-three-assistants-part-ways-with-mel-tucker/

Excellent stuff. Dare I say it but things seem to be shaping up for next season. Still a good few pieces needed so won't lose the run of myself.

Realt Dearg Sec

aaronm13 wrote: »

Excellent stuff. Dare I say it but things seem to be shaping up for next season. Still a good few pieces needed so won't lose the run of myself.

We also don't know how good pace is at drafting yet, which, for us, is going to be even more crucial in a rebuild. Read somewhere that it may take until year two before he will be able to fully implement his own drafting system. Not sure why that would take so long, since I know nothing about it, but by any stretch, when you are rebuilding the team, the one thing that can't wait a while to be right is the quality of the players being drafted. Without that there is no rebuild.

What I do like is his saying that he would offer to go bpa rather than drafting for need, which is where reaching happens, busts happen because you're desperate for a position to be filled, and generally you lose out on potentially great players with immediate or two year impact. We have almost no position without any need, so if prefer to get difference makers in, rather than plugging holes, since we probably have about two or three drafts before we're a serious contender anyway. Free agency should be for filing in gaps and needs rather than trying to gamble on aging stars, pick up what's needed until we get the right guys through a few years off drafting. The Packers model. Apart from anything else, they talk of the team reclaiming an identity, which is hard to do when almost nobody on your team knows or cares about the idea of being a Bear. We currently have the most free agents in the league, the team has no identity.

SameOleJay

Did I just read a post saying our new ST coach is worse than Joe D.

Mother of God.

Realt Dearg Sec

SameOleJay wrote: »

Did I just read a post saying our new ST coach is worse than Joe D.

Mother of God.

That was me. To be fair that's according to one site using its own metrics. But interestingly the Broncos have just picked up Joe D. They basically just swapped jobs. Somebody must regard him as an upgrade.

Realt Dearg Sec

Rumour that Adam Gase will be OC.

ABajaninCork

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Rumour that Adam Gase will be OC.

According to Bleacher Report, Gase is a done deal, as is Vic Fangio as DC. Could very well mean 'Fork' time for Manning.

Anyway - I like it. Not going to set the world alight next year, but at least won't be stinking the place out like this year.

Bear Down!!

adrian522

So...apparently the bears got some of our best coaches from last year and the coach we wanted this year? Go Bears I guess.

Looks like the 49ers are waiting until all the good OC's and DC's are hired and then grabbing the cheapest guy available. Sounds like a great plan.

Realt Dearg Sec

adrian522 wrote: »

So...apparently the bears got some of our best coaches from last year and the coach we wanted this year? Go Bears I guess.

Looks like the 49ers are waiting until all the good OC's and DC's are hired and then grabbing the cheapest guy available. Sounds like a great plan.

Yeah Donatell too. The Chicago Bronconiners as someone has called us.

SameOleJay

So phase one of the Pace off-season is complete.

Fox- Satisfied with his appointment. Must bear in mind that it’s very unlikely one of the young buck HCs would have drawn Fangio and Gase so Fox needs his due there.
Fangio- Ecstatic here. Tucker was so bad anyone could have improved things but this looks a home run. The infusion of some 3-4 looks is exciting too…. Mostly I’m just looking forward to a well drilled D.
Gase- Unknown really but Kyle Shanahan was the only one who I’d have been happier with. And he clearly tied himself to Quinn so no complaints. We’ll be keeping Jay so a run-heavy offense is essential.


Special teams still a huge concern but a positive start from Pace. Free Agency and Draft obviously critical now.

Realt Dearg Sec

Check out @peanuttillman's Tweet: https://twitter.com/peanuttillman/status/558670334723780608?s=09

Not clear if this means he's signed an extension or is coming back in a coaching role (which he's said before he has zero interest in) but either way looks like Peanut will be with us next year, which I like.

padraig_f

SameOleJay wrote: »

So phase one of the Pace off-season is complete.

Fox- Satisfied with his appointment. Must bear in mind that it’s very unlikely one of the young buck HCs would have drawn Fangio and Gase so Fox needs his due there.
Fangio- Ecstatic here. Tucker was so bad anyone could have improved things but this looks a home run. The infusion of some 3-4 looks is exciting too…. Mostly I’m just looking forward to a well drilled D.
Gase- Unknown really but Kyle Shanahan was the only one who I’d have been happier with. And he clearly tied himself to Quinn so no complaints. We’ll be keeping Jay so a run-heavy offense is essential.


Special teams still a huge concern but a positive start from Pace. Free Agency and Draft obviously critical now.

I'm reasonably happy now the main positions have been filled. Wasn't pro Fox at all, but the addition of Fangio made up for it. And yeah, fair point about Fox possibly being a factor in getting Fangio.

Have no strong feeliings on Gase, impossible to distinguish what he did from Manning. Will be a wait-and-see there, but I suppose one good thing is Fox thought highly enough of the job he did in Denver to re-employ him.

Special-teams aren't a huge concern for me. Also happy to wait and see here. Denver did rank poorly on special teams, but that can be affected by personnel. It's also not as much of a factor as offense/defense. I'd be happy enough with competence on special teams.

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Check out @peanuttillman's Tweet: https://twitter.com/peanuttillman/status/558670334723780608?s=09

Not clear if this means he's signed an extension or is coming back in a coaching role (which he's said before he has zero interest in) but either way looks like Peanut will be with us next year, which I like.

Good call from the front office, even if he can't contribute like old on the field, seems like a great guy to have around. I think it does mean he's playing, thought he said after the season he wasn't intending to retire.

Realt Dearg Sec

padraig_f wrote: »

I'm reasonably happy now the main positions have been filled. Wasn't pro Fox at all, but the addition of Fangio made up for it. And yeah, fair point about Fox possibly being a factor in getting Fangio.

Have no strong feeliings on Gase, impossible to distinguish what he did from Manning. Will be a wait-and-see there, but I suppose one good thing is Fox thought highly enough of the job he did in Denver to re-employ him.

Special-teams aren't a huge concern for me. Also happy to wait and see here. Denver did rank poorly on special teams, but that can be affected by personnel. It's also not as much of a factor as offense/defense. I'd be happy enough with competence on special teams.



Good call from the front office, even if he can't contribute like old on the field, seems like a great guy to have around. I think it does mean he's playing, thought he said after the season he wasn't intending to retire.

Ugh, his tweet was just a forerunner to another tweet promoting some ****ty hotel.

padraig_f

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Ugh, his tweet was just a forerunner to another tweet promoting some ****ty hotel.

lol, players aren't the best of follows on twitter. I follow a few, but a lot of them aren't great.

Realt Dearg Sec

padraig_f wrote: »

lol, players aren't the best of follows on twitter. I follow a few, but a lot of them aren't great.

Yeah especially in the off season. Good trolling though. Arian Foster is pretty good but he seems to get off on parading the fact that he's vaguely interested in all sorts of stuff like astronomy. Chris Kluwe would be good if he wasn't so into endless squabbling with computer nerds about Gamergate. Most of the rest either just quote the Bible or retweet motivational bull****. But then every now and again they might post something inadvertently funny, especially just after they've lost a game, like when Lamarr Houston lost his **** about fans booing them.

padraig_f

Couple of interesting articles on the 3-4 issue today:

Durkin: Signs Point To Bears Shifting To A 3-4

Switching to a 3-4: Is it the right move?


Not totally well-versed on the advantages/disadvantages of 4-3 vs. 3-4, but after watching the vanilla/incompetent 4-3 under Tucker for the last couple of years, would be interested to see the 3-4.

SameOleJay

Well it'll be a 3-4 base anyway- they've signed an OLB coach.

Pace is really gonna earn his corn in FA and the draft.

adrian522

Most defenses in the NFL spend a lot of time in Nikel and Dime packages making the 3-4/4-3 debate a little less important anyway.

3-4 is probably a bit better for disguising blitzes, OLB's will probably be asked to drop into coverage more.

Fangio (in SF anyway) liked to create pressure with (only) a 4 man rush, blitzing rarely, allowing the corners to have safety help and if the pass rush is good, they don't have to cover their receivers for too long.

A lot of this is dependent on a good pass rush, and a front 7 that can stop the run (without bringing down a safety) and MLB's who can cover running backs and TE's,

Not sure what the strengths of the bears defense is at the moment, he may need to adjust to suit his new roster.

Oat23

Nice to hear from this guy.
http://www.chicagobears.com/multimedia/videos/ITB-Knox-back-at-Halas-Hall/0e8b9ee2-2419-4727-9165-871228f9769e

Innish_Rebel

Oat23 wrote: »

Nice to hear from this guy.
http://www.chicagobears.com/multimedia/videos/ITB-Knox-back-at-Halas-Hall/0e8b9ee2-2419-4727-9165-871228f9769e

I still wince when they show the tackle/collision... I know there was no fault on Hargrove but I am surprised he didn't make contact at a later stage to just see how the guy was... Show's the hidden character of Marshawn though!!!

Realt Dearg Sec

Innish_Rebel wrote: »

I still wince when they show the tackle/collision... I know there was no fault on Hargrove but I am surprised he didn't make contact at a later stage to just see how the guy was... Show's the hidden character of Marshawn though!!!

Yeah, for a lot of reasons I'm starting to revise my low opinion of lynch, the media not liking him means they can paint him one way when, as Marlo Stanfield would say, it's the other way.

Realt Dearg Sec

Stan Drayton just hired as running backs coach, certainly seems like a great hire, he had that role for the last four years with the buckeyes. Anyone who watched their no1 rb, Ezekiel Elliott, this year, will probably regard that as a very promising hire for the bears.

Oat23

John Fox dodging questions about Cutler/Marshall's future, having breakfast with McCown and talking him up over his own QB scares the crap out of me.

Also, transition to a 3-4 confirmed.

https://twitter.com/ZachZaidman/status/568079134661804033
https://twitter.com/ZachZaidman/status/568077294536781824
https://twitter.com/ESPNChiBears/status/568078093216133121
https://twitter.com/CSNMoonMullin/status/568077721030533120

Realt Dearg Sec

Oat23 wrote: »

John Fox dodging questions about Cutler/Marshall's future, having breakfast with McCown and talking him up over his own QB scares the crap out of me.

Also, transition to a 3-4 confirmed.

https://twitter.com/ZachZaidman/status/568079134661804033
https://twitter.com/ZachZaidman/status/568077294536781824
https://twitter.com/ESPNChiBears/status/568078093216133121
https://twitter.com/CSNMoonMullin/status/568077721030533120

Ah, I don't see them somehow dropping Cutler for McCown. We know McCown is a damn good backup, a good team mate, and someone who demonstrably can work well with Cutler. But backup is his ceiling. Would be good to have him around.

But I don't have any problem with them being noncommittal on Cutler if there is a viable alternative plan. There's been too much dancing to Cutler's tune over the last few years, he should have to prove himself to the new management, and he should feel pressured to perform.

padraig_f

Oat23 wrote: »

John Fox dodging questions about Cutler/Marshall's future, having breakfast with McCown and talking him up over his own QB scares the crap out of me.

Zach Zaidman had an excellent take on this yesterday on 670 The Score:
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/audio/670-the-score-interviews/zach-zaidman-with-boers-and-bernstein-21815/

Mel Kiper had Mariota going 6th in his latest mock draft. If he falls to 7th, the Bears trade value in the pick goes up if they feign some interest in him.

It's speculation, but makes a lot of sense to me. You can see the Bears wanting to trade down from that pick too, with all the needs they have.

Watched a bit of both press conferences, Pace and Fox were non-committal about everything (except the 3-4). It makes the press conferences less interesting than Emery's, but I think it's smart to play things close to their chest.

SameOleJay

I find the non-commitment on Jay very interesting. How often do we get the coach’s pre-season platitude on having their guy (See Jay Gruden on RGIII last week) months before a ball is thrown. It’s clear to me that if any viable alternative was available through draft our FA they’d explore it. But, alas, there isn’t.

Does anyone honestly expect Marshall to leave? The franchise’s best ever receiver in the first year of a new deal. Reasonable cap-hit and no obvious decline shown injuries aside. I’d be amazed if he left.

kennyb3

SameOleJay wrote: »

Does anyone honestly expect Marshall to leave? The franchise’s best ever receiver in the first year of a new deal. Reasonable cap-hit and no obvious decline shown injuries aside. I’d be amazed if he left.

I don't think he will but wouldn't be madly surprised either;

- contract given by last staff
- woeful last season, even allowing for injuries
- weird relationship with Jay
- Not getting any younger
- off the field issues

The 3rd one being the biggest issue imho - they want him focussed on football not doing shows and blurting out about what's going on inside the Bears.

I think you'll see a much greater cloud of secrecy around the Bears this year.

Realt Dearg Sec

kennyb3 wrote: »

I think you'll see a much greater cloud of secrecy around the Bears this year.

I hope so, last year was farcical at times, the number of players (especially Marshall, but also Lamarr Houston, Kyle Long, Martellus Bennett, probably others as well) who were on Twitter doing stupid **** like bitching about fans, looking for fights, or whatever else, was completely farcical. We had "loser" written all over us, and all over the internet.

padraig_f

Oat23 wrote: »

John Fox dodging questions about Cutler/Marshall's future, having breakfast with McCown and talking him up over his own QB scares the crap out of me.

You can breathe a sigh of relief:

@AdamSchefter: Josh McCown has agreed to terms with Cleveland, per his agent @MikeMcCartney7.

Oat23

padraig_f wrote: »

You can breathe a sigh of relief:

@AdamSchefter: Josh McCown has agreed to terms with Cleveland, per his agent @MikeMcCartney7.

And he got a pay raise. Unbelievable.

$4.75m from the Bucs last season. $5.25m guaranteed with the Browns in 2015.